Posts by darkbison81

granitebadger25 said:And yeah, this whole obsession with antioxidants is getting out of hand too... I mean, antioxidants aren't going to guarantee us longevity; it’s good genetics and moderation that actually matter.

I'm not sure if darkbison81 has more data on this, but isn't cyanide actually the most potent antioxidant we know of so far?🙂

granitebadger25, thanks for stepping in here.🙂

The absolute most effective way to stop a human from oxidizing is to just stop breathing.😁 Basically, the very atmosphere we breathe is an oxidant.😉 Luckily, we have our own internal reducing agents both inside and outside our cells specifically designed to handle that...

I don't know the exact specifics regarding cyanide (well, the cyanide anion), but you'd need to check that redox potential table to be sure...

silentpanther15 said:Are you trying to tell me that most of the stuff—basically just various forms of natural chemicals—that they blast us with commercials for is actually unproven???

In other words, there’s no reliable evidence that consuming this kind of stuff long-term actually does what they claim it does...

I'm having a hard time phrasing this question properly, but I think you get my drift... 😉

Sometimes you see an ad that makes perfect sense on paper, but it’s never actually been empirically proven. More often than not, they’ll claim a product was "tested," but those tests are usually garbage—sample sizes are too small, the duration is way too short, and the data is basically useless. Then there's the second half of the scam: manipulating information to make a product sound however they want. They downplay one thing, exaggerate another, and suddenly the overall impression doesn't match reality at all.🙂

There was once this great experiment at a university over in Europe (maybe a sociology department?): they started a petition to ban dihydroxy-oxide. 😁 They used arguments like:
It’s everywhere.
It’s found in acidic liquids.
It’s in pesticides, medicines, food, and drinks.
It can be found in cancer cells.
And so on...
People went absolutely ballistic and signed it en masse... essentially trying to ban water. 🙄

The only advice I can give is this: use some common sense and try to dig through the mountain of "information" being served to us to find the actual facts.

Grace Baker2 said:1. As far as I know, dietary supplements in the States are categorized as food, so they don't undergo the same rigorous FDA testing as actual drugs. They stay on the shelves until some negative news forces a recall.

2. And look, the reality is you can pick all this stuff up at any regular supermarket, pharmacy, or Whole Foods. I honestly don't get why people find that so shocking.

3. Consumers have both the right and the responsibility to be well-informed. Maybe individual freedom of choice is weighed more heavily here in the US than in other parts of the world.

4. You can find products on the shelves of even the smallest convenience stores—anywhere, really—that could end in disaster if misused, yet they’re still sitting there available for purchase.

5. It’s true that the American market is obsessed with youth and beauty. We’re constantly bombarded by advertisements promising "newly discovered" miracle cures, so we tend to accept them more readily. But you guys... it’s only a matter of time before things catch up.

1. Yeah, it’s a shame.

2. Don't be surprised; I'm just stating the facts.

3. Not quite. Real freedom is when you actually know what you're choosing. Up until recently, there wasn't even much thought given to labeling GMOs in the USA (and just to be clear, I don't have anything against GMOs personally; I just think people deserve to know what they're eating if they want real freedom of choice. That's just one example). It's hard to be well-informed if you can't access the data and your only source of info is a flashy commercial...
Did you know that various GMO ferments that are banned from sale in the European Union for safety reasons hit the American market without any issues? I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't been put in a situation where I saw it firsthand...

4. Sure, if someone drinks bleach, they definitely won't fare well 🙂 but in certain countries, you can find products in supermarkets that, if used even according to the manufacturer's instructions, could cause problems because of a lack of objective testing.

5. I hope the European Union lags behind a bit when it comes to following these bad global trends. At least regarding GMOs, they're finally starting to work on some meaningful legislation...

Please, don't take this personally. I'm simply pointing out the differences in how different regions (the US vs. Europe) view the exact same issue... lately, I've had the chance to see the situation up close, which is why I'm so aware of these distinctions...

Grace Baker2 said:To be honest, darkbison81, those bottles aren't even that pricey since I pick everything up at Costco. For instance, the acidophilus with bifidus—180 capsules with a guaranteed minimum of 6 billion active cells—is only about $11. Multivitamins and Omega-3s run about the same, and calcium and magnesium are maybe $5 or $6. That lasts me six months. Everything else is pretty affordable, too, except for the Coenzyme Q10; the 120-capsule, 60 mg bottle runs over $30.
Thanks, and I appreciate the attention and the helpful advice.

Yeah, if you're on this side of the Atlantic, then it really is quite cheap... though, honestly, when it comes to gut health, grabbing a yogurt is way more effective than swallowing capsules, and you get your calcium in the deal, too.🙂

You're very welcome. 🙂

Kenneth Hernandez67 said:I’m honestly just confused by the facts here—DHEA is already sitting on shelves in American supermarkets 😲 while other places are still stuck in the research phase. Over in France, everyone seems obsessed with it... I don't know what to make of it. To be honest, I don't trust anything unless it's fresh produce I can grab at the local grocery store. Besides, if this stuff were truly that spectacular, why isn't there more demand for it? 😕

I actually picked up a bottle myself just to prove my point about how much junk you can find in American supermarkets. It was dirt cheap, too (and honestly, I'd rather not even think about whether they extracted it from something living or if they're using a pure synthetic process 🙄). From what I can tell, people in France are still pretty cautious about this kind of thing.

Look, some things are chemically active and could potentially benefit human health, but that requires actual proof. Otherwise, pumping a substance with an unknown mechanism of action into a healthy body is, at the very least, irresponsible.

PS: When it comes to the USA, it’s probably the craziest country on the planet. I really hope the European Union doesn't follow their lead when it comes to chemicals, processed food, and all the other nonsense found in supermarket aisles. 🙄

Kenneth Hernandez67 said:What’s the consensus on DHEA?😕

I guess I'll have an answer for you in about 50 years.😉

In all seriousness, I honestly don't know. I think we just don't have enough data or significant clinical progress yet to actually understand the full picture. It’s possible the stuff works wonders and any side effects are minor or totally negligible.
Personally, I wouldn't touch it right now. If something acts that broadly on the system, I’d be pretty cautious... I don't necessarily assume it's harmless.

Grace Baker22 said:At the end of the day, you just "flush out" the excess.

Sure, many things get excreted, but others stick around—specifically the fat-soluble ones like A, E, D, and Coenzyme Q10. But even for the stuff that does leave the body, it’s not as trivial as people think. Your liver only has a finite capacity for processing certain substances. If you constantly overwhelm its systems, those compounds start accumulating in the hepatocytes, and that's where the trouble starts (inflammation, cirrhosis, or in the worst cases, tumors). On top of that, the renal system isn't exactly thrilled about filtering out toxic levels of any substance over a long period either.

I think you're sensible enough—looking at how you take Vitamin C in reasonable doses—so I'm not trying to scare you. I just want to point out that this isn't as insignificant as it might seem at first glance. Any substance can be both beneficial and harmful to human health; it all comes down to factors like dosage. For instance, arsenic was actually used back in the day as a treatment for syphilis. 🙂

Grace Baker2 said:darkbison81, thanks for looking out for me, but I think you’re suggesting the wrong kind of substitute—I’m talking about makeup here. 🙂
Look, I’m willing to admit it: given my age, I probably overdo it. Maybe "less is more" actually applies to me.
But after decades of doing my face every single morning and honestly just loving the ritual of those pretty little palettes and vibrant colors... it’s hard to just break the habit. 🙂

Well, fine. If you aren't going to go the makeup route, just buy some high-end lingerie instead. 🙂 Since Kenneth Hernandez67 is suddenly convinced he's got three sets of breasts to manage now... 😁

I was just trying to point out that sometimes there's a much more effective—and cheaper—way to handle things: actual core strength versus chasing myths in capsules and calcium tablets. 🙂 Since you're in your 40s, if I were you, I’d still take the calcium occasionally (though, granted, the pill bottle will definitely last longer than any workout routine).

Grace Baker2 said:I eat fruit yogurt pretty much all the time—like three or four times a week—and I’ve also been taking probiotic capsules for a few months now.

Look, if you want some actual advice on saving money:🙂 fruit yogurts are fine, but those specialized probiotic drinks or cultured dairy products (just check the labels to see which strains they actually include) are way better than pills. A probiotic in a capsule isn't exactly at its peak because the freeze-drying and the whole manufacturing process messes with it. Besides the fact that the bacteria in yogurt are alive and kicking, the yogurt itself acts as a much better delivery system.🙂 For instance, you could probably ditch your calcium supplements if you just had a little yogurt every single day.

Take that extra cash you're saving and go buy some nice makeup or something.🙂

(PS: I’m not some kind of health fanatic or anything, it’s just that my work happens to involve Lactobacillus, Lactococcus, and other LAB strains right now.)

Grace Baker2 said:I’m right there with you, darkbison81. You actually make sense.
I stick to a solid multivitamin supplemented with extra Vitamin C, E, calcium, magnesium, omega-3s, lecithin, Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium, and primrose oil. I take just one pill a day instead of following those ridiculous instructions telling you to pop three.
I don't take any prescription meds, and even an aspirin is a rare occurrence for me.

Best,

Personally, I don't have anything against aspirin.🙂 Its mechanism is extremely well-understood (unless I've completely lost my mind, it's an inhibitor of prostaglandin cyclase or some enzyme along that pathway). We've had data tracking its effects for over a hundred years—it's thoroughly documented—so I’d say it’s safe enough to recommend. That said, if you have a sensitive stomach and you're drinking wine, you should probably opt for the buffered version rather than straight acetylsalicylic acid.

Are you getting your probiotics through yogurt or some other way?

And seriously, taking one pill is better than three. Sometimes I honestly think if someone actually followed the dosage instructions on those bottles for a few years straight, they'd end up dead from toxicity... 🙄

Bradley Fisher20 said:What exactly is the functional group in CoQ10?

The active part of ubiquinone is a ring—I can't recall the specific technical term right now—that’s somewhat similar to a benzene ring, though it obviously has various side chains (substituents). If I remember correctly, the actual functional group is a keto group that can undergo reduction. Beyond that, the Q10 found in mammalian mitochondria also features ten isoprenoid units (which is why it’s called "10"; some variations out there are just Q6 or Q8). Those units are absolutely essential because they allow it to anchor itself into the inner mitochondrial membrane. Since the ring itself is hydrophilic, it needs that hydrophobic tail to stay anchored within the lipid membrane.

Bradley Fisher20 said:Look, darkbison81, where on earth did you pull that cirrhosis data from? Do you have a specific citation from Medline or something? And seriously... here we go again with the Vitamin C talk! If it's meant to be, it's meant to be, I guess. 😉.

To hell with this Vitamin C stuff 😁—no, I wasn't hunting through Medline for the info. I actually saw it in a documentary on MoMA recently that featured some really solid data and decent experts for once...
. At this point, the conversation surrounding Vitamin C is old enough that we should finally have enough data and perspective to draw some real conclusions
.
Bradley Fisher20, I honestly think you and I are pretty much on the same page here 🙂.

Grace Baker2 said:Regarding CoQ10, I know that it
1. is vital for optimal cellular energy production,
2. acts as a potent antioxidant,
3. boosts the immune system,
4. could play a significant role in cancer therapies,
5. heart disease, etc. ...
6. and our levels decline as we age.

1. Just like any other component within the respiratory chain,
2. or many other substances found in our environment and our bodies. (It’s actually more accurate to say "reducing agent," because "antioxidant" isn't even a strictly valid scientific term)
3. Proof? (As far as I know, there isn't any). Viruses also "stimulate" the immune system quite effectively. 😉
4. Look, when you're dealing with aggressive medical treatments, everything becomes relevant...
5. Evidence? (Not that I'm aware of).
6. This applies to many other substances in the body. You could say the same thing about water 🙂(losing water is actually one of the biggest issues with aging). Regarding CoQ10, if you take more of it, you just end up peeing more of it out; taking it in old age doesn't automatically mean it's helping. If your mitochondria have failed—which is something you can't just stop—you could swallow every single one of its constituents and you still wouldn't be able to restore function...

This is just an illustration of how you can frame things differently to make them look "appealing." You could write all of those points for thousands of different chemical compounds.

I hope that clarifies my position a bit better. Personally, I'm a fan of chemicals too. 🙂

Man, my memory is failing me—I haven't been keeping up with my Omega-3s or my cholesterol meds 😉—so I can't say for sure what the exact Vitamin C dosage was. I know it was definitely under 6 grams a day, spread out over several years... As for Linus Pauling, he probably would have advocated for those levels regardless; honestly, even he admitted toward the end of his life that he might have been a bit too biased when it came to Vitamin C 🙂
At the end of the day, there are plenty of people hitting that 100-year milestone who never touched a single supplement. Plus, let's be real, there isn't actually a definitive study linking specific vitamins or minerals to longevity or overall health...
Supplements are basically just chemicals, and you don't want to overdo it. Fortunately, we only need them in tiny amounts, so most people should be able to get everything they need from a standard American diet. If someone is living in extreme poverty or dealing with food insecurity and isn't sure if they're eating "normally," then supplements make sense. But if you take too much, some of those chemicals get excreted easily while others tend to build up in your system. Either way, once your systems are saturated, an excess is harmful, not helpful.

Taking 1g of Vitamin C a day is fine. You'll probably just pee most of it out, but at least it’s not a dose that’s going to wreck your kidneys or your liver 🙂

Seriously, don't go overboard. Vitamins and minerals aren't magic potions that protect you from every disease. I'll say it again: taking too much can give you a headache 😉

Best, 🙂

Grace Baker2 said:Does anyone actually know anything about this?

Look, we all know that overdoing it is dangerous and that Big Pharma makes its real money off "supplements." It’s hardly surprising then that the public only hears about the "positive" side of things.
For instance, did you know that taking massive doses of Vitamin C can actually lead to liver cirrhosis?

Let's not get carried away here. Taking one multivitamin every couple of days is plenty, provided you're eating a decent diet.

As for CoQ10, I only know the textbook stuff: it's part of the inner mitochondrial membrane, involved in the respiratory chain, oxidative phosphorylation... basically, there's nothing magical or life-extending about an electron transporter.

No pill is ever going to extend your lifespan or stop the aging process...

From what I understand, modern hormonal contraceptives actually offer some protection against certain types of cancer, even if they don't touch others. Sure, there’s an increased risk of cardiovascular issues, but if you aren't in a high-risk category—meaning no family history, you don't smoke, and so on—it shouldn't really be an issue.