Posts by steelgardener22

boldgull19 said:The soul doesn't die

Exactly. Nowhere in the Bible does it actually say Jesus died. After his body passed, he went down to the Underworld to preach the Gospel....

Understanding his sacrifice—the actual way he was sacrificed—is this incredibly intense initiation. Out of a thousand people on this forum, maybe three or four actually get it.

Peter Martin said:No, that’s just not true. He died for thirty souls in Srebrenica.

And how would you even know what two cents is worth?

Isn't there a saying, "Saving a penny is like saving the whole world" or something?

velvetmaker39 said:Hey, I was just wondering, how do the Christian Palestinians over there actually refer to God, or what's their way of addressing Him in the Middle East?

They basically go, "Hey, come over here—we aren't gonna do anything to You!"

Megan Long21 said:To be perfectly clear, my goal isn't to follow the script you're trying to feed me.

I am simply stating what my intention is and stepping back from the argument.

My intention was to present the truth as it stands, rather than offering my own personal views or interpretations. In laying out the logical sequence of events, I might have been subjective due to my own convictions—after all, I am merely a man and a sinner, not an angel. However, there is certainly no error in quoting the divine narrative, because God and His word are perfect and free from the flaws inherent in humanity.

'To you your religion, and to me mine.' This shouldn't be taken as an insult or a provocation by anyone.

Yeah, sure, but we're here to call out these fake gods trying to pass themselves off as God.

If you're one of those folks following the Quran, then my question is simple: prove the claim that Christians included Mary in the Trinity. Where is the actual historical record showing Mary as part of the Trinity?

And where is the Muslim community asking Christians, "Why did you leave Mary out of the Trinity?"

silenthound4 said:If you're comfortable with English, give this video a watch. It'll make things a lot clearer for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPcsnciR6Jk

I don't know. Check this out yourself if you want clarity:

I also think the whole idea of Jesus' physical sacrifice is poorly framed—it's a weak comparison to those animal sacrifices back in the Old Testament.

silenthound4 said:What do you mean "instead"? That is exactly what the Father does. He puts Jesus first through this act of devotion. Seriously, just read the Bible. Everyone will bow to Jesus forever because He did this, and the Father is giving Him all the glory.

Fair enough, but I was noticing some other inconsistencies up there.

silenthound4 said:No, I see it differently. To me, it’s proof that God is just, but He’s just as much about love as He is about justice. He could have chosen not to save us—that wouldn't make Him any less God—but we were the ones who turned our backs on Him. Yet, Jesus said in Heaven: "I will pay their debt because I love them!" He chose His life and His fate of His own free will. That is why we are justified through Him. He is the Lamb who redeemed humanity, the first person to ever stand before the Gates of Heaven and have them swing wide open for Him, because He truly earned it.

If I remember right, the Father decided to sacrifice His Son. "Not my will, but Yours..."—which feels a bit clumsy if you ask me...

that's why we're justified in Him, because He is.

So this Father, instead of putting the Son first among all values because of His sacrifice, ends up making it look like the biggest sin is against the Holy Spirit—while anyone who beats the Son can basically be forgiven? Seriously? A real Father takes the hits himself and does everything to protect the Son's honor, right?

silenthound4 said:Jesus died to redeem us, acting as our shield against God's wrath.
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

Jesus sacrificed Himself so we could enter Paradise. All of God's anger was poured out on Jesus instead of us; He stepped right into our place and took the blow, all so we could be justified through Him.

This is just horror theology about a horror God.

Harold Reyes3 said:

Your issue is just like a Muslim who refuses to acknowledge Jesus's intervention and message because they've put all their chips on Muhammad. You're going to lose everything because you didn't put your faith in the one who said, "Salvation comes through me alone."

You don't believe in Jesus any more than I do. As Muslims, we are the only faith outside of Christianity that includes belief in Jesus Christ in our core tenets. If you don't believe in Jesus, you aren't a Muslim, period.

And honestly, what you're saying makes zero sense to me. It’s totally illogical to suggest he would come here to die for my sins if I'm the one committing them. I should be the one answering for my own mistakes.

Think about it: would it be fair for a judge to punish you for my crimes? Like, if I murder an innocent person, and then the court looks at you and says, "You're carrying Aaron's sins, so you're the one going to jail," is that justice? No way! It isn't!

It's the exact same thing with Jesus. And what does it even mean to you, this idea that he carries our sins? Does it mean we can sin as much as we want and still slide into heaven just because you claim Jesus paid the tab? That kind of thinking is dangerous. If people believe they can just do whatever they want because Jesus already redeemed them, it could lead to absolute chaos!🙄

Look, Christianity teaches that we’re responsible for cleaning up our own messes through self-reflection and repentance. That’s what Jesus teaches. I already wrote that He provides us with extra strength—His Spirit—to actually get it done. But you? You're completely missing my point, and honestly, it’s pretty sad.

So what’s your take on that idea—that God sees Mary within the Trinity?🤣

Megan Long21 said:Jesus was sent with the message of monotheism, just like all the other messengers of Allah, preaching a faith that calls for the oneness of God. However, modern Christian doctrine stands in direct opposition to that monotheistic message. When people talk about Christianity today, the first things that come to mind are the Trinity, the crucifixion, atonement, and the Incarnation. By "Trinity," they mean "that within one God exist the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—essentially one being whose power and glory are equal."

The Christian interpretation of this phenomenon is that God's oneness is real, yet so is the Trinity; that He is truly one while simultaneously being three, where each member of the Trinity possesses specific attributes the others do not, yet they remain one single being, equal in power and glory, with none preceding the other in existence!??
This whole "Trinity" concept—which they claim is monotheism, even though the term itself implies polytheism—is frankly incomprehensible. The term "Trinity" isn't mentioned once in the Old Testament or the New Testament; rather, it's assumed that the first person to actually use the term was Tertullian in the 2nd century. This suggests that Christians adopted the belief in the Trinity from the pagan religions that were dominant during that era.

"O follower of the Book, do not deviate from your faith, and speak only the truth regarding Allah! The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, is merely a messenger of Allah, created by His word which He bestowed upon Mary, giving him life; therefore, believe in Allah and His messengers and do not say, 'They are three!' Stop, it is better for you! Allah is only one God, glory be to Him, would He have a son?!"

''And when the angels said: 'Mary, Allah gives you tidings of a son who will be created by His word, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, esteemed in this world and the next, and one of those close to Allah! He will speak to people in the cradle, as well as when grown, and will be among the righteous!' She replied: 'My Lord, how can I have a son when no man has touched me?!' 'Thus it shall be,' He said, 'for Allah creates whatever He wills! When He decrees something, He simply says, "Be," and it is!"''

By "crucifixion," Christians refer to being nailed to a wooden cross.
Jews believe that the Messiah was an unbeliever, which is why he was persecuted, and that he died by being crucified.
Christians, however, also believe that the Messiah died on a cross, justifying this "crucifixion" as an atonement for the sins committed by their forefather, Adam—specifically, eating from the forbidden tree—and the subsequent passing of that sin down to his descendants, which provoked God's wrath against them. Therefore, they argue a mediator was necessary to act as atonement for this sin by dying on the cross. They claim this mediator, this savior, must be sinless, and that this could only be the son of God—who, according to their belief, is actually God Himself. For his atonement to work, a physical body was required, which serves as their reason for the Incarnation—that Allah, who is far above what they attribute to Him, took the form of Jesus, who emerged from Mary's womb and eventually died on the cross to redeem humanity.

Regarding current Christian doctrines, I find myself posing the following questions:
First, considering it is inherently unjust to punish someone other than the one who committed the sin, how can Jesus be punished for Adam's sin or the sins of his descendants?

Secondly, Christians believe that the Messiah is God's own son—which brings up a rather pointed question: why would the grace through which God showered His entire creation involve letting His "son" endure such intense suffering, humiliation, and a truly horrific death?
Thirdly, if we look at the Christian belief, they claim the Messiah is the son of God and that He is actually God Himself—and then suggest He undergoes the humiliation of the crucifixion? Honestly, can you imagine anything more incredulous than that?
Just as the crucifixion remains an incomprehensible mystery, the question of the Incarnation is equally baffling. It implies that God was a developing embryo within Mary's womb, progressing through the standard stages of gestation like any other biological life, nourished by blood, before finally entering the world in the exact same way we all do.
Anyone with even a shred of common sense simply cannot remain indifferent to such an absolute disgrace.
On the other hand, their entire argument hinges on a question that essentially forces itself upon you: Who exactly was running the show while God was tucked away in a woman's womb?
Incarnation, reality itself—it’s really nothing more than a convenient justification for that so-called crucifixion and the subsequent redemption they all keep preaching about.

The unbelievers are those who claim, "God is the Messiah, the son of Mary!" Yet the Messiah himself explicitly instructed, "O children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord!" Anyone who attempts to equate another being with God will find themselves barred from entering Heaven; instead, their dwelling shall be Hell, and there won't be a single soul on this earth capable of coming to the aid of such oppressors.

It is absolutely essential to point out that the entirety of Christianity essentially boils down to the question of the Crucifixion. At its core, the call to follow this faith rests entirely upon that single event, because if you strip it away, there isn't anything else left that would actually draw followers toward the concept of the Cross and the redemption of sins—both past and future.

In Islamic belief, the Messiah is viewed as one of the prophets sent to the people of Israel, tasked with preaching the oneness of God and delivering His divine message. He arrived not to overturn what came before, but to follow and complete the laws established by Moses. Despite this, his own people branded him a liar and plotted to take his life; however, God intervened, saving him and raising him up to heaven.

The Messiah, the son of Mary, is nothing more than a messenger—and let’s not forget that messengers have been coming and going long before him. His mother was a woman of truth, and both of them lived as humans who relied on food for sustenance. Just look at the clear evidence we present to them, and then observe how they stubbornly turn away.

He instructs them in the Book of Wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. He sends him as a messenger to the sons of Israel.

"And then there’s that claim regarding their own words: 'We killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah...' But they didn't actually kill him, nor did they crucify him; it was merely an illusion to them. Those who held differing views about him were simply skeptical; they didn't possess any actual certainty, they were just speculating. It is an absolute fact that they didn't kill him, as Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is All-Powerful and All-Knowing."

Given that the Quran, the final messenger from God, presents a vision that diverges from modern Christian doctrine, one could argue that the faith brought by the Messiah has undergone significant distortion over time. Anyone who takes the time to study the history of the Messiah, his divine calling, and the trajectory of his followers will discover that the very inception of his message was met with intense persecution and oppression that spanned several centuries. Even within Christian tradition itself, there is an acknowledgment of this systemic hostility; they recount being targeted first by the Jews, which led to the widespread killing and displacement of the Messiah's followers across various corners of the globe. This was followed by two centuries of Roman oppression, a period during which Christians endured relentless hardship and humiliation. In those days, simply being accused of being a Christian was often enough to serve as sufficient evidence for someone to face the death penalty.
Persecution acts as one of the primary catalysts for distorting the Messiah's faith. If we want any hope of maintaining the stability of the message—if we actually want to anchor it within the human soul, live by its tenets, and empower missionaries to spread it among the masses—we absolutely require an environment of security and robust support. Without that foundation, the old ways will inevitably overwhelm the new, bleeding their own colors into everything, while the opposition finds nothing but fertile ground to plant their own ideas within the movement.
Since the Messiah was sent specifically to the Jews, he actually instructed his followers not to wander off into Gentile territories to preach the faith (Matthew 10:5). And yet, they went ahead and broke that rule almost immediately, heading straight toward the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, and various other pagan groups. Furthermore, because the Messiah’s message was intended exclusively for the Jews, it lacked any secular authority to compete with established paganism; consequently, paganism simply overwhelmed it. You see this reflected everywhere—the concept of the "Trinity" pops up among Hindus, the ancient Egyptians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, and the Phoenicians, among many others. Even the idea of a "redeemer and incarnation" is something you'll find within Hindu traditions as well.

"And those who concoct lies about Allah and then persist in them—they truly are nothing more than oppressors!"

Why are you drifting off-topic? Look, if the Quran actually includes Mary in the Trinity, then quit bringing up the Catholic version—talk about the Quranic one instead. You need to actually prove that the Quran is right when it claims Christians include Mary in the Trinity.

The Law was clear. But his own people? They called him a liar. They actually tried to take him out—straight up wanted him dead—but God stepped in, saved him, and brought him up to heaven.

So, who exactly was crucified?

It seems like you guys have a hard time accepting that Jesus basically looked the executioners in the eye and won—defying their whole plan to nail him to a cross just to send him off. But let’s be real: the risen Jesus, who completely crushed the crucifixion, is pure greatness. That's lightyears beyond some idea of Allah's ego trying to swap him out for someone else. Didn't Jesus himself say he could call on angels to stop the whole crucifixion thing if he wanted? He chose a different path for a reason.

You think Christianity hasn't dealt with enough forgers already—now we need Allah too?

rowdyhawk10 said:You aren't clueless; it’s always a good idea to ask. 🙂

I suppose the answer to your questions would be this: Jesus of Nazareth died because everything in creation is subject to death.
You, me, even those who haven't been born yet... everyone has to die.

As for the redemption of sins via Jesus's sacrifice—that feels more like a religious tax on faith rather than something inherently tied to him. It’s a bit like claiming Niki Lauda died just so God could forgive everyone. It seems to me like a nonsensical and untrue claim spread by clergy simply because it secures their wealth and comfortable lifestyles. God isn't a priest, and he doesn't need money, nor does he require anyone's painful suffering. Best,

So what about that part from the Bible, "Freely you have received; freely give"? Think the priests forgot how to hide that one?

Look, even Muhammad's Islam gets massive funding today (Saudi Arabia, for example).

Harold Reyes3 said:

It’s actually the exact opposite: Christ "redeemed" our souls by pledging a portion of His Power to every single soul , embedding a protective and liberating strength within us —a spark that we can fan into a blaze through a devoted life to burn away everything tethering us to the darkness. It isn't that Christ died for us or gave up His very essence to relinquish it; He simply lent a fragment of His Power to every soul.

I've been studying faith for 16 years. I read about all kinds of religions—Christianity and Judaism have always fascinated me—but I feel like I've burned through a few million brain cells trying to wrap my head around this. It just won't click. 🙄 It's a total mystery.

Honestly, I don't get why people make their faith so complicated. As someone who's spent years diving into religious questions, I'm struggling to follow what you wrote here. If I can't grasp it, how is someone with zero background in religion—whether it's Christianity or Islam—supposed to understand?

The scriptures regarding salvation state that Jesus placed His spirit within every soul—basically, He gave His spiritual energy to everyone as a deposit, and now it’s on us to multiply that energy. What did Jesus say about that deposit? If you multiply it, you're capable and ready; if you don't, you're just a failure.

Your issue—as a Muslim—is that you won't acknowledge Jesus's intervention or that divine deposit because you've put all your chips on Muhammad. That's why you're going to lose everything—because you didn't believe the one who said, "Salvation comes through me alone."

Angela Martin20 said:I feel like a complete idiot right now, but whatever
from what I gather, Jesus was accused of all sorts of things, but I'm really stuck on the part where he redeemed our sins through his death... like, why? How exactly does his passing lead to our salvation?

It’s actually the exact opposite: Christ "redeemed" our souls by essentially staking His Power on every single soul—embedding a protective, rescuing strength within us. It's a spark that we can fan into a flame through living a consecrated life, using it to burn away everything in our souls that ties us to the darkness. Christ didn't die for us, nor did He give up His Life (the foundation) just to let go of it; He simply lent a portion of His Power to every soul.