And nobody even noticed that in my sentence "$107 gross minus $20,000 in costs leaves enough cash to cover everything up to $67" I'm missing a hundred thousand. It's funny how you can just $33 slip through the cracks unnoticed 😂
Hazelnuts and especially walnuts aren't "get rich quick" crops. Anyone who thinks they’ll see a return on their investment by year four is being played. It's a two-sided problem. On one hand, you've got nursery owners spinning fairy tales about yields and prices just to grab some quick cash. On the other, people tend to hear only what they want to hear. They dive into these deals completely unprepared, and then, when they don't see tens of thousands of dollars in profit per acre after five years, they act like the whole world owes them something. It really just comes down to two things: how much anyone actually expects from this and what kind of information they're working with. Look, it’s like any other industry. Someone’s going to launch a business, fail miserably, or just quit when things get tough. Meanwhile, someone else will take that exact same concept and actually run it like a professional. I’ve decided to go with hazelnuts. I’m fully aware that for the first five to seven years, I’ll barely be breaking even. In some other industries, you’d expect to be pulling in a decent profit by then—assuming you were putting in significantly more capital and labor. Personally, I don't expect a 12-acre hazelnut farm to become my primary source of income, even after ten years. Some people, unfortunately, seem to think they can run a commercial operation on just 5 acres. Their math is flawed; they assume a yield of two tons of processed nuts, which isn't the reality, multiplied by whatever retail price a big-box store like Walmart might offer. $27 je $53 Total garbage. $107 Gross minus $20,000 in expenses leaves you with enough for the roof at... $67It’s completely unrealistic. I’d go as far as to say the math is just plain stupid.
The real question is whether 400 square feet could actually handle the overhead for staff and supervision. Pigs don't care how small the operation is—they demand daily attention, no matter what.
The root system is likely solid, which is what actually matters. A common scam involves hazelnut growers who don't prune their stock, so they just shove sticks with a single root into the ground and call it a day.
Bradley Phillips35 said:I mean, obviously, their whole goal is just to make a buck 🙂
Of course everyone wants to turn a profit; there's nothing wrong with that. But making money by ripping people off and selling them junk isn't a business—it's a scam. Look at how much those first three nurseries from Robert Hall7's story actually made versus how much they lost because nobody would buy from them next year. The problem lies with the shady nursery owners, but also with buyers who don't do their homework and fall for every sales pitch. I get it—it's hard to judge a tree just by looking at a price tag—but you need to verify every bit of info you can.
Here's my experience. Last year, I was looking to pick up 1,800 hazelnut seedlings. In February, right before the fall planting season, I called one guy—one of the most well-known private hazelnut growers in the US. At first, he said he had stock. But once he heard which part of the country I was heading to, he suddenly changed his mind and claimed he was out. WTF? I found out the truth a month later. He had screwed over a few guys in the neighboring counties, sold them nothing but sticks, and ended up in some nasty disputes with them. You know how those stubborn rural types can be 😉 so he was terrified of dealing with another headache like that. Luckily for me, he wouldn't sell me anything. 🙂
Land can be held through outright ownership or via a long-term lease, like a 15-year agreement. Basically, you have the option to lease the land from your in-laws or your spouse, or you can just bring them into the family business if you're all living under the same roof. In my opinion, what shows up on the county property records doesn't actually matter when you're applying for orchard establishment grants. The main requirement is that you need at least 5,000 square feet total; it doesn't all have to be on one single plot.
Edit I mixed up my facts there. I was talking about incentives for permanent crops, but regarding the family farm setup, you need more than 5,000 square feet total—that's nothing. As for vegetable production, a lease can be shorter (I think 3 or 5 years, but check with your local USDA office or the municipal agricultural department).
Adam Taylor12 said:I sound quite ridiculous even to myself—for instance, I genuinely thought one could simply stroll into a local nursery and pick up 200 seedlings on a whim. Apparently, that wasn't the case; they gave me some rather peculiar looks.😳 Thanks for the advice regarding the stumps—it’s a relief they’re still relatively high out of the ground. I was the one who took them down, and, needless to say, that was my first time ever operating a chainsaw. Now, my next move is to see if I can track down someone in town with a tractor so I can finally get this sorted out. Regarding the government incentives—I’m honestly not even bothering with them at the moment. There are just too many hoops to jump through; for instance, that requirement regarding fencing seems particularly tedious to satisfy. Besides, I suspect anyone actually pursuing those grants would have to commit an exhausting amount of effort to stay compliant. My long-term vision remains focused on building the business in New York City, and that requires my full attention. I’ve spent some time working my way through a few introductory books and following various discussions—both on specialized forums and here—and I have to say, much of what is being presented feels more like science fiction than reality.🤷 Well, thank you for the advice.
Yeah, unfortunately, things aren't looking too bright for the nursery workers right now.
Adam Taylor12 said:I sound quite ridiculous even to myself—for instance, I genuinely thought one could simply stroll into a local nursery and pick up 200 seedlings on a whim. Apparently, that wasn't the case; they gave me some rather peculiar looks.😳 Thanks for the advice regarding the stumps—it’s a relief they’re still relatively high out of the ground. I was the one who took them down, and, needless to say, that was my first time ever operating a chainsaw. Now, my next move is to see if I can track down someone in town with a tractor so I can finally get this sorted out. Regarding the government incentives—I’m honestly not even bothering with them at the moment. There are just too many hoops to jump through; for instance, that requirement regarding fencing seems particularly tedious to satisfy. Besides, I suspect anyone actually pursuing those grants would have to commit an exhausting amount of effort to stay compliant. My long-term vision remains focused on building the business in New York City, and that requires my full attention. I’ve spent some time working my way through a few introductory books and following various discussions—both on specialized forums and here—and I have to say, much of what is being presented feels more like science fiction than reality.🤷 Well, thank you for the advice.
I learned this lesson the hard way from a neighbor who helped me clear out some massive willow trees. This was just a month after I’d picked up my new tractor. We had one specific trunk—about two feet wide and maybe sixty feet tall—that needed moving. The guy looks at me, dead serious, and says, "Just hitch it up to the tractor." Honestly, I didn't think my little machine stood a chance of budging something that heavy, but I was dead wrong. That little thing pulled it like it was nothing. 🙂 Mostly, I think I could pull it off by next month if I just stay in low gear. 😉
Adam Taylor12 said:I sound quite ridiculous even to myself—for instance, I genuinely thought one could simply stroll into a local nursery and pick up 200 seedlings on a whim. Apparently, that wasn't the case; they gave me some rather peculiar looks.😳 Thanks for the advice regarding the stumps—it’s a relief they’re still relatively high out of the ground. I was the one who took them down, and, needless to say, that was my first time ever operating a chainsaw. Now, my next move is to see if I can track down someone in town with a tractor so I can finally get this sorted out. Regarding the government incentives—I’m honestly not even bothering with them at the moment. There are just too many hoops to jump through; for instance, that requirement regarding fencing seems particularly tedious to satisfy. Besides, I suspect anyone actually pursuing those grants would have to commit an exhausting amount of effort to stay compliant. My long-term vision remains focused on building the business in New York City, and that requires my full attention. I’ve spent some time working my way through a few introductory books and following various discussions—both on specialized forums and here—and I have to say, much of what is being presented feels more like science fiction than reality.🤷 Well, thank you for the advice.
Think about it again. Fencing isn't actually a requirement for permanent plantings. If you ask me, the real criteria come down to simple ownership, buying your seedlings from a licensed nursery, and having a total planting area that exceeds 1.2 acres. It has nothing to do with your long-term plans. 😉 If you need more details, just shoot me a DM.
Adam Taylor12 said:I sound quite ridiculous even to myself—for instance, I genuinely thought one could simply stroll into a local nursery and pick up 200 seedlings on a whim. Apparently, that wasn't the case; they gave me some rather peculiar looks.😳 Thanks for the advice regarding the stumps—it’s a relief they’re still relatively high out of the ground. I was the one who took them down, and, needless to say, that was my first time ever operating a chainsaw. Now, my next move is to see if I can track down someone in town with a tractor so I can finally get this sorted out. Regarding the government incentives—I’m honestly not even bothering with them at the moment. There are just too many hoops to jump through; for instance, that requirement regarding fencing seems particularly tedious to satisfy. Besides, I suspect anyone actually pursuing those grants would have to commit an exhausting amount of effort to stay compliant. My long-term vision remains focused on building the business in New York City, and that requires my full attention. I’ve spent some time working my way through a few introductory books and following various discussions—both on specialized forums and here—and I have to say, much of what is being presented feels more like science fiction than reality.🤷 Well, thank you for the advice.
Adam Taylor12 said:I suppose to the serious forum regulars, I come across as somewhat frivolous😳. I’ve finalized all the paperwork, and the surveyor’s report came back with some plots located closer to the house. I managed to clear out part of that gravel pit—though, frankly, I haven't the slightest clue how one is supposed to uproot those stubborn old stumps— and the walnut planting is slated for the second plot...
Why would you think you sound unprofessional? It’s great that you’re getting started.
As for the stumps... that's the eternal question.🙂 The easiest way is to rent an excavator. I used to pay $67/hour. You can get a lot done in an hour, though it obviously depends on how heavy the machine is and how tough the stumps are. Plum trees shouldn't be an issue even for a small tractor. On the flip side, the guy who cleared a pile of roots from my pasture using a willow tree couldn't budge one single stump. Your best bet is to find an operator, show them the job, and try to negotiate a flat rate if you aren't sure how much they can actually move per hour. The other way is tractor, winch, pry bars, and axes. Hook up the tractor, pull, dig, chop the roots... it's a slow method, but it works. It's better not to cut the plums you want to move all the way down to the dirt; leave about a foot of the stump. (It's easier for the excavator, too). For example, I once cleared birch trees with about 6-inch diameters at the base all by myself using an old John Deere utility tractor (about 39hp). No pry bars needed, just a chainsaw and an old axe (one you don't mind hitting the dirt with). Took maybe 15 minutes per tree. And I'm definitely not in peak shape or an expert.😉
I’m just saying, people are buying at $5 per square foot. And let's not forget, if we're talking about the area near Pavin, it's mostly industrial zones anyway. At the end of the day, the old folks used to say that only God and the land are eternal. 😉
Get your paperwork in order and mark your property lines. Don't buy into the lie that some things are impossible to clear out—with enough willpower and a decent $700 weed eater, you can get it done. Fact-check every single piece of information you hear. I was in a similar spot once, so I just planted an almond tree. Others go with walnuts. If your land title is clean and undisputed, government grants can be a massive help. Think it through, do your homework (read books, check forums), and if there’s enough goodwill and consensus within the family, make a move. I don't think you'll regret it as long as you aren't expecting any miracles.
Karen Rodriguez3 said:Nah, paying the tax is the requirement, not necessarily charging it. If you aren't registered under the Value Added Tax Act, then you don't charge it. You just put a note on your invoice stating you aren't part of the system and cite the specific section of the Value Added Tax Act explaining why you didn't calculate it... but you still have to pay it if you're buying goods or services from someone who *is* registered. And since you aren't in the system, you can't claim that paid tax as a credit. http://www.irs.gov/content...ROSPEKT_69.pdf
Yeah, exactly. I honestly don't know what I was thinking, suggesting that someone outside the sales tax system would be required to charge it.🙈
Karen Rodriguez3 said:Just a heads-up for anyone thinking about skipping sales tax registration for their first year: keep in mind that if you aren't part of that system, you don't have to charge sales tax on your services or products, but you still have to pay it when you buy things for your business. Since you aren't registered, you can't claim those taxes back as credits. You really have to weigh the pros and cons. If your business is mostly selling your own expertise or services, it might make sense. But if you have to buy a ton of supplies, hardware, or equipment, you'll be paying extra on everything and won't get any of that money back, which makes your overhead higher than someone who is fully registered.
I might be out of the loop on the latest regulations, but this is news to me. Isn't collecting sales tax a requirement regardless of whether you're officially in the system or not???
neonstag5 said:So, I finally went out and hired an accountant... took all your advice to heart, and honestly, I’m feeling a bit more steady about the whole mess now.
She strongly advised against registering for sales tax since I won't actually end up owing anything at the end of the fiscal year—everything should just offset against my business expenses (I don't quite have the technical jargon to explain that properly to you folks). I'm not planning on making any major purchases or stocking inventory anyway, which aligns with what $0.67 mentioned... both the accountant and the forum consensus seem to point in that direction, and things are finally starting to click...
I'll just be using a standard business checking account, and I'll make sure to clearly note on the account details that I'm not registered for sales tax. That should be enough to keep things simple.
Yeah, I hear you. I dropped the ball there. I should have realized I had the option to decide whether to opt into the sales tax system or not...
Exactly. Don't mix up two different types of taxes. What she was telling you is about income tax. Let me break it down: If you bill $33 annually and have $10 in expenses (mileage, per diems, supplies, etc.), the difference is $23, and you pay income tax on that $23. I assume she meant that if you had those hypothetical $33 in sales, you'd also have $33 in expenses, so you wouldn't actually owe much income tax. That has nothing to do with sales tax . Sales tax is neutral if you're registered. For example, if you were registered and had those same $33 in sales, on that $100,000 you'd charge an extra $7.25. You owe that sales tax to the government, but you subtract whatever sales tax you already paid on your business receipts. If your business setup results in the expenses from the previous example $33, you end up in the same spot (except every receipt you pay reduces that $22,000 you owe). If you only have $4.00 in receipts, $733 stays in your pocket. (You can get receipts for your phone, utilities, tolls, supplies, and a ton of other stuff, and you can deduct anywhere from 70% to 100% of them)
I'm not "pitching" sales tax; I'm trying to explain it. Personally, the only "issue" with sales tax is that once you opt in, you're locked in for five years, though you can always opt out. My advice would be to start out without it, then once the business picks up, look at the numbers and see what makes sense. If you're running a serious operation, sales tax shouldn't be an issue since you can choose to file monthly or quarterly.
mistytinker26 said:No, the IRS doesn't have its own dedicated collection agents. They just charge you whatever they feel like, and honestly, I’d really appreciate it if someone could actually break down those fees. You can also send it via 😉
In the meantime, I found out here that notaries are charging anywhere from $200 to $500, sometimes even up to $700. If you take the minimum of $0.67, and based on the standard rate for a company worth $6.75, it should be $250, leaving a remainder of at least $500? What do the line items on your notary invoices look like?
That list of long-term assets matters quite a bit because of the tax write-offs you can claim. First, there's depreciation, and then all the associated running costs. For instance, if you list a vehicle as a long-term asset, you get to deduct a specific percentage as depreciation every year, plus every actual expense tied to that car—think gas, oil changes, repairs. The catch is that when you eventually sell it, that sale counts as taxable income. Regarding what Robert Hall7 mentioned about VAT, I’d suggest giving that some serious thought too; the upfront savings on the purchase side are huge.
In principle. Every single time, I draft my own travel voucher detailing the destination, the mode of transport, the business purpose, and the total mileage logged. Obviously, you aren't going to write that you drove 311 miles miles from Washington, D.C. to Pittsburgh.
You don't need an R1 form for that. There’s a specific regulation somewhere stating the allowable mileage reimbursement rate. If I recall, it’s about $0.67 per mile. So, if you traveled from Washington, D.C. to Pittsburgh 31 miles times at $0.67 miles each, that equals $33. You use those $33 to reduce your taxable income. Similarly, if the trip lasts over 12 hours, you can claim $57 per diem—I think—and if it's between 8 and 12 hours, you get half a per diem.
The experts here will probably chime in on what the standard per diem is in America and how much you can actually deduct for using your own vehicle for work.
Section 13 covers what qualifies as a deductible business expense.
You should double-check whatever nonsense our dear Congressmen have changed through recent amendments, but this is a good starting point. The last update to the regulations was just back in January.
No, the IRS doesn't have its own dedicated collection agents. They just charge you whatever they feel like, and honestly, I’d really appreciate it if someone could actually break down those fees. You can also send it via 😉
(2) When amending a corporation's articles of incorporation, the transaction value is determined by the scale of the change relative to the company's net assets (total assets minus liabilities). If the change involves a specific cash amount, that figure is used. L D U
(3) In cases involving the transfer of shares in a corporation, the applicable value is either the value of the transferred share if it exceeds the consideration paid, or the consideration itself if it is lower.
Article 12 states: If the value of the subject matter of an official act is:
The only thing I couldn't dig up—believe it or not—is 🙂 the actual value of a "point." By the way, I assumed the currency in the US was dollars, but apparently not according to the notary and lawyers. I'm just waiting for my local grocery store to tell me a loaf of bread costs fifty points.
To cut to the chase, what is the current value of a point, and how is the company's net assets calculated if the company hasn't been operating for very many years? Is it based on initial capital? How am I supposed to prove the amount to the notary? I doubt they'll just take my word for it.
Thanks for the info. CNN pointed me toward the memo, but I wasn't exactly surprised by the news. 😢 Honestly, I saw this coming.
Next question, if anyone knows: how much does it cost to formalize an amendment to the articles of incorporation? Apparently, that's the next step we have to take.