So, I was just wondering... did they actually manage to figure out a way to work in Germany without knowing any German, or is that just some kind of pipe dream?
I've been thinking quite a bit about our recent discussions regarding the local infrastructure updates. It’s funny how these things seem to happen all at once, isn't it? One day everything is running smoothly, and the next, you're looking at major construction projects blocking your usual route to work. I was reading some thoughts from rowdypanther12 earlier, and it really got me pondering the long-term impact of these changes on our community. While I tend to be an optimist—I truly believe most of these growing pains lead to better outcomes—it does require a certain level of patience that can be hard to muster when you're stuck in traffic! It reminds me of a similar situation I encountered years ago back in Chicago. We had a massive overhaul of the municipal systems, and while the initial chaos was enough to make anyone grumpy, the end result actually improved our daily lives significantly. I'm hopeful we'll see that same trajectory here. Does anyone else feel like we're in that "middle phase" where everything feels a bit unsettled before the new normal sets in? I'd love to hear your take on it. kaže: If you ask me, if someone is planning on moving to Vienna, they’d probably be much better off putting their energy into learning the local language rather than focusing solely on German. It just seems like a smarter strategic move for settling in long-term. 😂
👍 Honestly, whenever I travel abroad, I don't even bother trying to speak English. Instead, I just find myself speaking my native American much more loudly! It’s like a little tactic—I just turn up the volume on my American accent so that whatever clerk, waitress, or whoever happens to be behind the counter realizes exactly which language I'm using. It's a funny way of making sure there's no confusion about what I'm saying. 😁 Of course we were on the road! In that company, English was the official language for everything at the group level. Everything was conducted in English whenever we visited their offices—and mind you, this was literally a former state-owned Austrian firm that had been privatized...
Oh, you absolutely can. Most people make a real effort to pick up enough to manage at the grocery store, navigate traffic, or just chat with random people on the street. But let's be honest—it’s nowhere near impossible to hold down a job or build a life in a new country just because you haven't mastered B2-level fluency. And I really dislike this implication that you have to live like some sort of "underclass" or beggar if you aren't perfectly bilingual. I know dozens of people—some through their companies, others through my kids' friends—who have integrated perfectly fine without knowing much more than the absolute basics. We're talking about America here, which hasn't historically been the easiest place for foreigners to settle in, unlike countries where immigrants and expats make up over 10% of the entire population.
To wrap things up, is it finally clear that you can actually hold down a job in Germany without immediately hitting a wall just because you don't speak German? I certainly think so, which makes that ridiculous claim little more than more forum nonsense destined for the trash heap, along with all those other 😁
As for that "rank of simpleton grandmas" nonsense you mentioned—honestly, I can't help but laugh at stuff like that. Unlike you, I’ve actually lived abroad in a country where I didn't know the language, and lo and behold, I managed to navigate everything—visas, health insurance, finding pediatricians, daycare, and all that other bureaucratic headache—without any issues and without knowing a lick of the local tongue. As for the daily grind, like popping into the grocery store or taking the kids to parks and play centers? I never once felt like some "simpleton grandma." But then again, that sounds more like your own projection than anything rooted in reality. My German was certainly helpful there 🤣 🤣 🤣
Anyway, just like what I see every day here in the US, expats do perfectly fine living in foreign countries as long as they have English down (I'm talking about people in my immediate circle who do what they do...). Learning a second foreign language is just that—an option. It might be incredibly useful, or it might be totally useless in your day-to-day life... Besides, you usually pick up a language through sheer necessity in about six months better than you ever would during nine years in the US school system...
Haha, I’m just talking nonsense now because I pointed out the simple fact that you can absolutely build a career in Germany without knowing a word of German. So, basically, the exact opposite of what was claimed.
It seems we have a brand new definition of "talking nonsense" courtesy of Elvis Presley, where simply stating a truth that someone happens to dislike counts as "nonsense." 🤣
Good grief, how did you all pass basic logic if you can't draw a single straightforward conclusion? This one falls right into the category of "If it doesn't apply to one specific case, then it must not apply to everyone." 😉
Larry Walker24 said:plus those days when you could just scrape by in Germany using nothing but Spanish or English are long gone. Either you pick up German or you can kiss it goodbye
🤣
If you master C# or Go—or anything else from that specific programming family—you won't even need to worry about the local language to land a high-paying gig over there.😁
Back in 2016, there were about 37,500 babies born here in the States who are just now starting elementary school. By comparison, back in 2022, we saw 34,000 births—that’s a dip of 3,500 kids, which translates to roughly 175 fewer classrooms if you assume 20 students per class. Meanwhile, the high school seniors graduating right now were born in 2004, a year when we had 40,300 births. That’s nearly 3,000 more kids than the group currently entering first grade (which makes up about 150 classrooms). It’s a pattern where we see about 150 to 175 fewer classrooms every single year. Of course, there have been some "good" years where the decline wasn't perfectly linear because a sudden drop was offset by a temporary spike, but the trend is there. We also have to factor in the massive impact of emigration on one side, while on the other, we aren't seeing many immigrants arriving with young children—mostly just single men moving here for work. Perhaps that will change eventually, which might increase the demand for language teachers, but for now...
The trends are pretty unmistakable. If you look at the decline in birth rates combined with the number of people leaving the country, and then weigh that against the number of new graduates entering the workforce versus those retiring, I don't think the situation for most social studies teachers is dire enough to justify a hike in hourly pay rates.
While the declining birth rate has been a critical issue for a long time, the government hasn't really stepped up with any particularly sensible solutions.
I’m not entirely convinced that’s how it’s going to shake out. If that's the case, PE stays exactly where it is, while Computer Science might actually see a reduction in hours—especially since it was already capped at two hours a week whether you were taking it as a required course or an elective.
The one silver lining, I suppose, is getting at least two hours of dedicated "Science" that isn't lumped in with Social Studies. I’ve mentioned this before, but it really needs to happen—instead of this disjointed mess where they jump from history to local geography to animal adaptations, all wrapped up in those cluttered curriculum guides from the Department of Education.
Jesus Christ, can you seriously not see what it says about the curriculum? Are we being serious right now?
Here is the quote for X: Extended Math and Computer Science program OR a second foreign language: German (beginner or advanced) or Italian (beginner)
Do you notice the conjunction "or"?
XIII Hours allocated for the Category II foreign language for grades 1-4: - - - - Hours allocated for elective subjects (Math or Computer Science): 2 2 2 2
To put it plainly: Every STEM high school in New York City EXCEPT for the first one (which only has one grade total) offers programs WITHOUT a second foreign language. Edit: Okay, and I didn't check the third one because I always forget about it. Edit2 - the prep material also shows a choice between a second foreign language or environmental science.
But there you have it—it’s a far cry from saying "all" schools have it "mandatory," because they simply don't all have it.
I read through that. You mentioned "only" Nike and Others, but honestly, schools like Lincoln High have a similar program, along with X and XIII—basically all the prep schools in the area except for I., which only has one grade anyway. I didn't double-check the preposition.
It’s actually quite easy to find the exact data if you just take a few clicks...
Not quite. Unlike you, I actually took a bit more time to look into this properly this year, mostly because my kid was asking me about it. Public high schools regularly offer programs that don't include a second foreign language, so it’s definitely NOT a requirement in "all" high schools.☕
That’s certainly one way to look at it. From what I’ve seen, being proficient in English isn't just some extra perk—for a lot of people, it’s actually plenty to get by. Even our public school system seems to agree; you don't even see a second foreign language required in all the high schools, let alone as a mandatory requirement for getting into a state university.
On the flip side, though, not knowing English definitely creates more hurdles when it comes to your career, job opportunities, or even just continuing your education...
I’m certainly not trying to push anyone’s hand here, but if she decided to go with a starter model, I wouldn't dream of judging her for it. Honestly, I started out with exactly the same thing and I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything at all. It would feel incredibly hypocritical of me to say otherwise...
stormymarlin22 said:Not really. In those specialized prep schools, foreign language is an elective, so if you don't pick it, you aren't learning two.
I think you mean two instead of three—don't forget they still have mandatory Latin in those programs! 😁 Some STEM tracks offer a choice between beginner and advanced levels, some focus heavily on the native language without a second foreign tongue, and others have tracks where a second language is only available at the advanced level...
In any case, I really think there's a clear advantage to skipping the language classes offered by the school district and choosing a private language academy instead because - you can start right from the first grade - the classes are smaller, which means much more focused attention on the students (even if things even out later when kids drop off, the academy groups stay tighter than public school classes) - there's no pressure regarding grades or worrying about dragging down a GPA - the scheduling is much more flexible than what the school offers - if your child just hits a wall or loses interest, you can stop whenever you want without the academic fallout - if you aren't happy with the instructor, you can simply switch academies and get a new teacher - if they decide to pursue it in high school, they can take a placement test; if they decide they're over it, they can choose the beginner track or just opt for something else entirely😁
Sarah Hall53 said:Look, I’m telling you—here’s how this plays out. They won't even bother putting it on his record in elementary school just so he doesn't end up having to deal with anything more than the bare minimum once he hits high school...
edit: I mean, I’ve seen a few cases where kids were placed in advanced tracks after spending five years struggling with the basics. They basically spent the first two years of high school sleeping through class and somehow coasted with a B, which felt fine at first—but then everything falls apart. Seriously, by junior year, they start hitting you with actual concepts that weren't even remotely touched upon back in middle school! 😲 And there you are, still sleeping through class and expecting an easy A. Well, guess what? That's when the state steps in and hands you a D. 😛
Sarah Hall53 said:First off, I wasn't "reveling" in it. You're only throwing that at me because you have this habit of twisting everything the local "experts" on this forum say—as if we’re all just monsters who somehow hate kids and parents.☕
Look, I said it and I still believe it: taking an introductory language course after five years of study is just taking the path of least resistance—it's laziness. If we weren't talking about a language but math, and someone finished Pythagoras, squares, and square roots, then decided to skip ahead and just learn multiplication tables from scratch, wouldn't you call that lazy too?
And thirdly—yes, the old curriculum for a second foreign language in high school was designed so that you'd hit A2 level by the middle of junior year, and then, magically, jump to B1 within another year and a half. Basically, things that were NOT being covered in elementary school. It’s the same logic as if you studied German from first through third grade, then switched to an elective in fourth, slept through fifth and sixth based on what you learned when you were little, and then got a massive, uncomfortable wake-up call in seventh grade.
Man, honestly... sticking your tongue out like that? It’s mostly just being a little brat, isn't it?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: choosing an entry-level language after spending five years studying something else is just taking the path of least resistance. Honestly, isn't that just a bit of laziness? Think about it this way—if you were studying mathematics instead of linguistics, and after mastering Pythagoras, squaring numbers, and square roots, you suddenly decided to go back to the very beginning just to relearn multiplication tables... wouldn't you call that lazy too?
And then there was that third part—the old curriculum for second foreign languages back in high school. It actually laid out this ambitious roadmap where you’d hit the A2 level by around the middle of your junior year, and then, like some kind of academic magic trick, jump all the way to B1 within another year and a half. It was one of those things they just didn't bother covering during middle school. ...
Taking the path of least resistance—especially when it comes to things that simply don't matter to you—doesn't make you lazy. Honestly, I think it’s actually a sign of intelligence. Why waste all your precious energy banging your head against a wall over something trivial? It’s much smarter to just step aside and save that mental bandwidth for the stuff that actually counts. It seems like you were just getting started with your thought on the election process! It looks like the message cut off right at "election and..." I'm genuinely curious to see where you were heading with that. Were you going to dive into the impact of recent polling, or perhaps some thoughts on how the voting infrastructure is holding up? I always find these political discussions fascinating, even when they get a bit heavy. Please, do continue whenever you have a moment—I'd love to hear your full take on the situation. Honestly, he just doesn't care. It’s not even worth bringing up to him.
So, I’m trying to wrap my head around this curriculum logic. Is introductory German in high school really just the absolute basics, or is it actually a grueling grind where they expect students to jump from A2 to B1 in just eighteen months? You've got to pick a lane here!
My kids were sitting there in fourth grade, just staring blankingly at me, and they didn't have the slightest clue what "Nimm die Kreide" even meant. It was one of those moments where you realize just how much of a generational gap exists between us! ☕
It’s quite interesting how Mad writes, isn't it? In one post, she claims that lazy kids just want to enroll in a program where they only learn the bare absolute minimum of a language. But then, in another thread, she's talking about how much her child struggled to pull off a C grade in third grade, even though the kid supposedly had a solid grasp of German throughout elementary school—which, let's face it, involves way more than five years of study at that stage.
I really wish people would just pick a side and stick to their own logic instead of constantly shifting their story to fit whatever specific situation happens to be unfolding at the moment.😁
Since some schools require a second language even if a student has zero interest in it—and honestly, I could have easily navigated my entire life without ever knowing a lick of German—it makes perfect sense that they’d opt for an introductory level. If you're forced to take a course that counts toward your GPA, why not pick the one that makes life a little easier? Maybe they also know that the teacher for the last five years has been handing out A's like candy just to fill the schedule, regardless of actual proficiency. Or perhaps their knowledge isn't bad, but they've simply hit a wall and don't want to deal with that specific language anymore. It's enough.
Personally, I would be the first person to support a kid who, after years of studying, decides they aren't going to kill themselves over advanced grammar and a million vocabulary words in a language that isn't even their native tongue. If there's an alternative like a beginner course available, let them take it.
They'll still graduate with some foundational knowledge, and if they ever change their mind later on, there are always plenty of community college courses or private language academies out there. And if they really don't care? Well, they've got English, and they've got Google Translate.😁
urbantinker8 said:I suppose kids might want to gamify their schoolwork, but they’re just children, after all, so I guess they tend to care more about the grade on the paper than actually absorbing the material. though parents probably ought to be a bit more discerning about that approach.☕
thankfully, various educational seminars have been highlighting this specific issue where students struggle to truly grasp a second language even after five years of study, and I'm hopeful that some sort of standard will be implemented soon to address it.🎉
That’s exactly why some parents decide it’s better to have their kid learn a language through private tutoring outside the American school system—dealing with all its flaws—while they just scrape by in class to meet the bare minimum requirements.
I honestly don't know... back in high school, my classmates never really reached the level I hit after seven years of studying 🎉 I was never even close to getting a passing grade, but man, I had a blast watching everyone else struggle while having absolutely no clue what was going on 😬
Anyway, like I mentioned before, switching my focus to English was easily the smartest move I ever made; that basic German I picked up was really just a nice little bonus 😁
They write down an elective, and then suddenly you aren't even given the choice despite the option being right there on paper—and apparently, that’s all considered acceptable 🤦
Thankfully, my daughter's transcript doesn't mention any second language, so even though she studied it for seven and a half years, she can just enroll in it as a beginner if she wants to. That way, nobody can lecture her about what she "should" or "shouldn't" be able to do based on their own narrow opinions 😁 Just another little win for dodging the mandatory foreign language requirement in school...