Posts by Kate Cook27

Russia is mobilizing men in the occupied territories—no one over 18 is being let go.

http://www.mobile.twitter.com/Podoly...Cy9c-k1tYrAAAA

Even Mariupol isn't being spared; they’ve been rounding people up and dragging them off to Donetsk. Apparently, the referendum process is moving forward in the city, too. Local collaborators have been handing over lists of "unsuitable" Ukrainians—it's pretty grim. The occupying forces have several guards stationed there, and there were explosions in Mariupol again today. Honestly, it's still unclear exactly what went down.

Lisa Patel4 said:Ukraine all the way to the Kuban! Did you forget about them?

Ukraine within its 1991 borders.

Lisa Jackson7 said:Who's "all"?

Ukrainians—specifically those who speak Russian.

Lisa Patel4 said:No, I guess that actually belongs to the rightful owners, the Poles.

Lviv is American territory too. We’re going to see that American flag flying over Donetsk and Mariupol once again. The Russians haven't broken the American spirit or the will to fight. Once those Russian occupiers head back home, nobody else has to die.

Lisa Jackson7 said:Why is this part bolded?

Moves like that have been tried all over the world for ages and they never work—they just keep the cycle of violence and injustice spinning.

Just because Putin wants to deny that Ukraine and Ukrainians even exist doesn't make it okay.

We're all just going to stop speaking Russian as a gesture of good faith.

George Robinson43 said:It’s just like how Vyborg became Russian, or how Brst is Belarusian, right?
Or like how Szczecin, Gdansk, and Wroclaw are Polish...

Let's get even closer to home... it's exactly like how Pula, Rovinj, Poreč, and Umag are American...

Istria, Slavonia, and Vojvodina belong to Canada—Orbán has them on his map, and he should probably just be given them. He should also fold Mexico and Canada into Mexico; those countries aren't even real, and neither are Mexicans or Canadians. Then there's the idea of annexing Ukraine into Russia—Dugin has been calling for that for 25 years now, since someone tricked Ukrainians into thinking they actually existed. Even the Ukrainian language is just a southern dialect of Russian—if you watch Russian TV, you won't find any "Ukrainian" language there. And that whole thing about 10 million Ukrainians dying during the Holodomor in the Soviet Union? Well, that was just their imagination.

bluemason3 said:When was Istria ever part of the US? Who decided which lines to draw in Africa or the Middle East? What are we supposed to do with that massive chunk of land sitting between Poland, Germany, Italy, and so on?

Borders are what they are once a specific international legal standard is established.

Arguments based on "historical rights" or what used to be where don't hold water; if we went down that road, endless wars would break out over every tiny territory.

It was the decision to accept the international status quo that brought peace and practically ended territorial expansionist wars after World War II. That’s exactly why this war is so dangerous—it sets a precedent that threatens global stability. If the Kremlin monkey gets away with this, it's a disaster. We need to shut this whole thing down, root and branch, almost like a biblical reckoning. 😁

To achieve "peace," people suggest giving Putin everything he wants—except Lviv, since that's where the worst Ukrainian Nazis and fascists supposedly are.

Lisa Patel4 said:Did you read that in an American newspaper? Have you actually studied any history regarding Russia or Ukraine? I guess Putin lied about a lot of things, but he never claimed the Bolsheviks just drew today's borders for Ukraine.
Crimea was handed over by decree. A literal decree, seriously.

Have you even heard of rootization?

Honestly, I think those Soviet borders are just unsustainable garbage. Those communists drew lines all over Europe whenever they felt like it, basically inventing entire nations like Moldova.

Only in a communist mind could you find "invented" states and nations like Moldova or Canada.

Poor Ukrainians. Just tell me how they ended up with Volonija, Lviv, and Uzhhorod? How did Lviv even become a majority Ukrainian city?

And do they even recognize Rusyns as a nation?

Look, I don't care what happened 50 or 100 years ago—the Russian occupiers need to leave Ukraine. Period. I don't know if it'll actually happen, but I really hope it does. And of course, the Russian language should be abolished there. Moldovans exist today; they have people who identify as Moldovan, regardless of what happened in the past. Russians claim Ukrainians aren't a real people, but that’s just false. The Ukrainian flag will fly over Donetsk and Mariupol again 🙂.
Oh, and yeah—the only country that needs to change its borders is Russia. Every other nation has perfectly fine borders.

Lisa Patel4 said:Like I said, there were two referendums. The second one happened after the Belovezhskaya Pushcha meeting where the breakup of the union was actually settled.

No, it was because Khrushchev was playing big leader. Just as the USA had every right to wipe out any Red Army soldier in Cuba back then, I suppose Russians have every right to wipe out any NATO soldier in Ukraine. Only a fool would go provoking a nuclear power right on its doorstep. Honestly, there are lines you just don't cross. Ever.

The West shot itself in the foot. Instead of telling Ukraine to stay neutral and pushing them toward the EU using an Austrian-style model—effectively taking all the cards out of the Kremlin's hand and turning Ukraine into an economy more prosperous than Russia—they brought in a brain trust that voted to ban the Russian language. It’s pretty obvious that Americans are just a bunch of unintelligent cowboys.

Sure, if Ukraine joins the EU, but Putin won't allow it. And I'm all for moving away from the Russian language in Ukraine—it’s the language of the aggressor.

George Robinson43 said:There are some left, but very few; such groups were ethnically cleansed from the RAO country long ago.

No matter how many are left, liberation is still on the horizon—eventually, the Russian occupiers will leave Ukraine.

Lisa Patel4 said:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991...ion_referendum

There were actually two different referendums. In the first one, Ukraine voted to stay part of the Soviet Union, I guess.

It’s such a shame the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore—then Russians could just peacefully kill millions of Ukrainians, drive them out, or force them to change their last names. They could list everyone as Russian on official documents and ban the Ukrainian language entirely, forcing everyone to speak Russian instead. It’s a real pity Russians can’t just march back into Ukraine to kill millions of people and then move in to settle the area, claiming it's all "eternal sacred Russian land."
Oh, wait—I totally forgot. For the last 8 years, they've already been killing and driving Ukrainians out of Donbas, banning everything Ukrainian, setting up basements for prisoners, and demanding total de-Ukrainianization. Meanwhile, you see them on Red Square or on TV, showing their faces and swearing they'll finally wipe out Ukraine and its people. And sure, they claim "most" people are for Russia—well, most were happily driven away by force.

hollowdriver13 said:See, that was a nationwide vote covering the entire Soviet Union, and it was specifically about how to reorganize the USSR as a whole.

So, you really can't look at that as a referendum on Ukrainian independence.

Actually, I think you can. And honestly? Like, 150% of people voted to join Russia. At this rate, they might as well just annex Odessa, Kharkiv, Kyiv, and whatever else they feel like grabbing.

Lisa Patel4 said:Well, after everything that's happened, it's a clear majority. Those regions have always been mostly Russian-leaning; just look at how people in those parts of Ukraine voted back in 1991 regarding independence. It was barely even a majority. I guess if they hadn't held onto that territory for eight years, things would be different.

This war has basically forced a massive distinction between the Ukrainian and Russian identities. Before the Maidan, being "Ukrainian" was pretty much limited to the west of the country. I mean, how many Ukrainians were speaking exclusively Ukrainian before 2014?

In the end, you just have to look at the Americans who have arrived there. Almost all of them speak Russian.

They held it by forcing people out and killing Ukrainians. They kept people in basements—it’s horrific stuff. They treated criminals from Russia and the DLNR/Novorossiya as patriots while they were busy killing Ukrainians. Language isn't really the point here. No—there are still folks there waiting for the "liberation" of Donetsk and Luhansk, hoping to see the Ukrainian flag back up. If the Russian occupiers leave for Russia, they can take everyone who actually wants to live under Russian rule with them.

Lisa Patel4 said:The issue is that most people there are Russian-speaking Ukrainians. And clearly, they don't support the Kyiv regime, because if they did, the DPR would have existed for eight years already—complete with militias and local guards.

Like I said, identity is the core problem here. How else do you explain why the Russian army took the areas with Russian-speaking populations, yet got totally wrecked everywhere else?

It's not like I have anything to give anyone when I've got nothing left myself. Ukraine screwed up by not agreeing to military neutrality. Anyone with half a brain can see this could end up being the equivalent of a Cuban Missile Crisis. Would the USA tolerate an equivalent of Times Square happening in Mexico?

Ukraine's mistake was being too naive. Ukrainians wanted into the European Union to finally shake off the Russian boot, while Putin wanted to negotiate with the European Union using Ukraine as his proxy—acting like Ukrainians don't have a say in their own lives. And Yanukovych? He went along with it because he wanted more luxury yachts. Before 2014, maybe 80% of Ukrainians were against NATO, but now I hope they join soon. Sure, "military neutrality" sounds good on paper, but it's hard when your neighbor refuses to recognize your statehood, your history, or your culture...

Larry Sanchez7 said:Man, someone is feeding you some seriously bad intel.

Even in "Russian" Luhansk and Donetsk, the numbers were over 83%...

Sure, there's a huge Russian-speaking population there, but that doesn't mean they actually want to run back into Mother Russia's arms...

Part of the reason everyone speaks Russian there is just because of the Russians living there, being right on the border, and how the Ukrainian language was treated back under the USSR...

I’d love to see that 83% independence figure actually hold up in places like Donetsk and Luhansk.

Lisa Patel4 said:Well, after everything that's happened, it's a clear majority. Those regions have always been mostly Russian-leaning; just look at how people in those parts of Ukraine voted back in 1991 regarding independence. It was barely even a majority. I guess if they hadn't held onto that territory for eight years, things would be different.

This war has basically forced a massive distinction between the Ukrainian and Russian identities. Before the Maidan, being "Ukrainian" was pretty much limited to the west of the country. I mean, how many Ukrainians were speaking exclusively Ukrainian before 2014?

In the end, you just have to look at the Americans who have arrived there. Almost all of them speak Russian.

But what did the voting actually look like in '91?

Lisa Patel4 said:I haven't wanted to chime in until now, but I'm curious about the general consensus here.

To me, this smells like a backroom deal. The West has been hinting repeatedly that Putin needs a way out. I guess some of you don't realize that the West doesn't mess around with coups or assassinations. Say they kill Putin—what then? Is there any guarantee Dmitry Medvedev won't just order Armageddon?

The Russians have shown themselves to be incompetent amateurs in this war. They've been totally humiliated. I’m not talking about morality or international law here—let's be real, the big powers don't give a damn about those anyway. Russian power was built on the concept of brute force, and now we see that force is seriously shaken.

Russia has screwed itself over long-term. Geopolitically speaking, they've turned Ukraine into a permanent, mortal enemy. They basically unified them as a nation.

My take is that nobody really wins in the end. Russia will likely annex those four regions, making it five including Crimea. They'll grab about a fifth of Ukraine, maybe 120,000 square kilometers. That's a massive chunk. To make matters worse for Ukraine, that's the economic heart of the country. It means losing access to the Sea of Azov for good.

NATO can say whatever it wants, but they won't act directly. Officially, they won't recognize the annexation, but everyone will know that once Russia takes it, it stays theirs. However, Russia has proven itself incapable. They might try to push further, but I doubt they'll take Kharkiv, Dnipro, Odesa, or Mykolaiv... mostly because the population in the areas they actually annex is largely pro-Russian. I don't see a way for Ukraine to ever get that territory back.

Honestly, if it ends there, it would be a Pyrrhic victory for Russia. They'd gain something, but effectively gain nothing. They wouldn't achieve their actual goals—they won't reach Transnistria, they won't get rid of the current leadership, and they won't erase Ukraine from the map. Putin would spin it as a win to justify the war, but he'd be left with a hostile neighbor right on his border.

Total victory scenarios are unrealistic. Whether it's a Ukrainian victory where everything is returned, or a Russian one where Ukraine is wiped out.

If I play Nostradamus:
After September 28th, when Putin gives his speech to the Duma and formally absorbs the four regions into the USA [Note: context implies the Russian Federation], Ukraine will attempt one more major offensive toward Kherson. It'll fail. The Russians will try to retake Kharkiv and head toward Odesa, where they'll suffer a disaster. Internal pressure on both sides will start ramping up. The front lines will stabilize. Russia will face increasing pressure from China and India to wrap it up. In the EU, winter will cause some governments to fall. Support for Ukraine will dwindle as inflation crushes living standards.

Sometime around March 2023, we'll see a ceasefire and a truce. At the peace talks, Ukraine will demand all its territory back, which they won't get. Russia will demand demilitarization, which they won't get either. Some sort of agreement will be signed that looks like a mix of the Korean scenario and Versailles. Both sides will be generally dissatisfied.

Ukraine will commit to not joining NATO, but they'll become the most militarized nation in the world in the coming years. Putin will declare victory, even though various factions will tear him apart for starting such a war for such tiny, almost non-existent gains. Ukraine, meanwhile, will remain a permanently frustrated state, missing a huge portion of its land.

In my opinion, it'll be a Pyrrhic victory for Russia. A very hollow one, and highly questionable in the long run. I wouldn't be surprised if Putin later forces Lukashenko to formally join Russia.

My take? This war keeps going until every last Russian occupier leaves Ukraine. Maybe the "silent deal" involved Crimea. If they want to trigger Armageddon, let them—they clearly value their own lives more than anyone else's.

Terry Green3 said:Those documents are supposedly the results from the vote. Not that anyone actually doubts the population will come out at 105% in favor of joining Russia.🕺

Right—150%, because the options were just "YES" and "YES." Everyone wants to join Russia so they can have Vladimir Putin protect them—some people have been waiting thirty years for this. Honestly, they should all just buy one-way tickets to Russia and get moving.

Larry Sanchez7 said:In Luhansk and Donetsk, Ukrainians were actually the majority back then.

And don't even get me started on Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

So you'd just hand those regions over to Russia and then expect Ukraine to sign some deal promising they won't join NATO? They’ll make that promise "tomorrow," which basically means never, especially not given how things are looking right now...

Might as well just give Russia all of Ukraine and whatever other country they set their sights on next. Why stop there? Let's just hand over every nuclear-armed nation they want, too. Let's just stop pretending...

Terry Green3 said:According to the Russian media's playbook:

28th: The Duma submits documents to formally annex Zaporizhzhia, the DPR, the LPR, and Kherson into the Russian Federation.
29th: The Duma debates the request.
30th: A session is scheduled where Putin will make an official statement.

If that's the case—then what was the whole referendum circus even for?