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Posts by Susan James

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Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:I mean, obviously kids aren't doing it based on their own beliefs.
But then again, I suppose most parents aren't pushing it because of a sudden spiritual awakening either; it’s usually more about just following the social flow, like if the neighbor's kid is doing it.

I honestly haven't the slightest clue how many kids in my little one's class attend religious studies or skip it, mostly because I just don't really care to find out. If anyone even brought it up during a PTA meeting, I don't think I even registered it.

I don't know, personally, knowing where the kids are during those religious studies periods and seeing how many opt out was important to me, both before enrollment and once we actually signed up.
I tend to stay in the loop regarding who isn't attending; I often hear bits and pieces of conversation about what people said or what they were up to during that block.

I also feel it's important for a child to understand why they aren't attending and to know ahead of time what they'll be doing instead of that (or lack of) class.
And despite our parental preference for it being the first period of the day, my kid much prefers it when it happens mid-day, mostly because they say they have more fun then 😂
(they're great at getting their homework done too; they've already finished all their reading assignments during that time, so they really make the most of that hour)
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
driftinggull83 said:😠 I already know his two little friends are planning on taking religion class. At what stage of the school enrollment process do we actually decide on that subject? And how am I supposed to find out how many kids are signing up or opting out? My husband is dead set on our child skipping it, and I’m the parent you guys were just talking about (so please, don't start with me)
good grief 🕺

The only way to really know is if you happen to know someone who isn't taking it. Then, if they ask you to pick a teacher or a buddy, you can just request to be in the same group as that friend—that way you’re pretty sure there will be at least two of them. That’s actually what I did, though it turned out there were way more kids skipping it in the other parallel class anyway. 😂

Birthday parties (which I've never been a huge fan of) are actually a great way to gather intel.
Public schools tend to be pretty protective of their data regarding who opts out, and sometimes they even give you a vague answer like, "Oh, everyone who signed up is attending."

From my own experience, it is much easier to sign them up later than it is to withdraw them once they're already enrolled (since you usually have to wait until the end of the school year to opt out).
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
wanderingbadger77 said:You can talk all the crap you want. It's easy to beat someone else's ...eggs when you're sitting comfortably at home running internet revolutions.

There's no way you'd actually put your own kid through the stress of a police interrogation or live with the guilt over some wrongly spoken word.
Life has taught me that the ones making the most noise usually have the least to show for it.

What kind of guilt comes from just getting a word wrong? 😕

If you're testifying, I assume you aren't lying. In fact, you're legally obligated to tell the truth.
It's perfectly fine to stumble over your words or lose your train of thought.

As long as you're telling the truth, any penalty is determined by the judge, not by the witness. The person who actually committed the crime is the one responsible for their own actions and should face the consequences accordingly.
A witness is simply there to help the process move along and ensure justice is served quickly.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Michelle Nelson4 said:It really depends on the specific neighborhood and the individual school, so I’d definitely suggest checking in locally to see how things are handled in your district. In our local elementary school, about 7 out of 24 first graders didn't attend. By second and third grade, a couple of those kids moved away, but two more decided to opt out too, so we still have 7 students skipping the sessions. During those periods, they usually hang out in the library or in a teacher's classroom (mostly using the time to catch up on math homework). Starting in third grade, the school schedules that block at the very beginning or end of the day, so those kids often just head home early.👍

I'm enrolling my younger one in school right now, and naturally, he won't be attending religion classes either, even if he ends up being the only one left in the room.😉

Yeah, it varies quite a bit depending on the area, the school, and even the specific group of students—what you see in the suburbs is often very different from what you see in the city.
One thing I’ve noticed happens a lot is that once some kids see even just one other student opting out, it makes it much easier for them to decide to skip it too.

But there's still this clear pattern where schools would rather have a handful of non-participating kids in every single classroom instead of reducing the teacher's hours, even when all the classes share the same foreign language elective or after-school program.

Anyway, the reason I was asking is because I recently found out that religion teachers can move up to mentor status after only two years on the job, whereas regular teachers or specialists need at least six. They can even become advisors after three years, while us "regular mortals" have to wait at least eleven! I also learned that based on various evaluation criteria—which are suggested by JPMorgan Chase rather than the Department of Education—one of the big ways they rack up points for higher pay grades is by the number of students interested in their subject. Specifically, they look at how many students stick with it, which is officially described as "student and parent engagement." 😍
You also have to factor in student success, which is measured, naturally, by grades (🤦). So, you get this flood of straight A's helping them secure those titles for higher salaries (not to mention that whole religious competition circus).

Now I'm just waiting for that one religion teacher who pops in here occasionally to bring more info about their promotions and convince us that they’re actually advancing professionally and deserve those pay raises.

When the next round of union negotiations comes up regarding those hefty teacher salaries, I really hope they discuss faster advancement tracks for certain subjects. I don't want to overstate it for everyone, but if we want to keep computer science teachers in our schools with decent pay, they should probably be eligible for mentor status after year one and advisor status after year two.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
hiddendriver34 said:Teachers aren't signing some blood oath in the faculty lounge to protect one another.

The vibe in a teachers' lounge is just like any other workplace in the States—people have their favorites, they have their rivals, they grab coffee and gossip. I don't see any reason why a group of teachers would go out of their way to tank a student's grades just because that kid blew the whistle on a colleague!😲 Do you honestly think that's how it works? That they'd sabotage a kid just out of "loyalty" to a coworker?!

Well, it isn't just about loyalty, 🤣
public institutions often work in a way where you either have people stabbing you in the back because they have nothing better to do, or everyone protects each other because everyone has a "favor" to call in. It's that "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" mentality—better to stick together and cover for one another.

Nobody is saying teachers will actively target students with bad grades, but there is a very real fear of making waves. If you speak up, you might feel the fallout in other areas. For example, if you testify that a teacher actually said something inappropriate, there's a risk that their colleague might grill you with tricky questions during an oral exam—like in Physics, for instance (didn't they mention they should have reported the Physics teacher since not everyone gets straight A's in his class🤔)?
There's that fear of what others will say, how they'll look at you...

Of course, it can go the other way too; teachers might feel pressured to give better grades to those who step forward just so they don't end up being the ones scrutinized. 😂

And sure, both you and I dream of a perfectly fair society where one professor's actions shouldn't influence anyone else's behavior, but experience tells us that in America, it doesn't always work that way, and who knows if it ever will.
I think we need to have an honest conversation about the human dilemmas involved: why things don't get reported, why people don't fight back, and why, during those big curriculum protests, most parents still ended up showing up to the PTA meetings (which could have been canceled altogether)...

Most of the kids and parents fall into the "don't rock the boat" category.
That’s why they sign up for religion classes. We're seeing a situation right now where kids signed up for religion just by inertia—everyone else was doing it, so they did too. They liked the teacher, or he seemed fun (judging by the photos going around), or he handed out easy A's (that's what some kids mentioned in an article). Who can blame these kids for not wanting to cause trouble? They're in shock. They don't realize how damaging this person's teaching actually was, because like any predator, he knew how to charm them. Now, they feel like they've been betrayed because one kid had the guts to report him, making them all feel like they're on the losing side.

When someone is out on a boat in a calm, sunny sea and a storm hits, sweeping them into the water, even if they know how to swim, the sheer terror of nearly drowning leaves a mark. The cognitive and emotional aftermath can last for days.
They went from a place of total security to a world that feels unsafe.

The kids in that class (except for the few who realize how harmful the teacher's rhetoric was) have experienced genuine trauma from being exposed to aggressive content and hate speech. They've lost their image of the "cool teacher" and those easy A's.
And now they'll have to deal with even more stress, potentially being re-traumatized when they have to testify.
Man, that's just life.

The media is spinning this narrative that parents are preventing their kids from testifying, rather than just explaining the actual legal process. In reality, there’s a specific procedure where parents are called to request witnesses—including children—and parents have the legal right to decline having their child give a statement about what happened during that specific hour for various reasons.

On top of that, the police can call in any other witnesses they need, whether it's school staff or students from other classes mentioned in the initial report, or anyone else whose names come up during the investigation.

At the end of the day, the news outlets that were the first to jump on the story about students being "forbidden" from testifying clearly had an agenda—they were trying to intimidate people. Nobody wants to be the center of attention here, so please, don't go looking for trouble by making too much noise. 😬
(I am honestly curious if this whole thing was leaked on the principal's orders or by his lawyers—and they aren't exactly unknown figures. As a parent, I'd be asking myself if I really wanted my kid exposed to those people.)

I'm teaching my child that being a witness to something and reporting it to supervisors or the police is part of being a responsible citizen.
Whether it's misconduct at school or something more dangerous out on the road, any information provided to the police or the courts can be vital.

With that in mind, if my child had been there during that period, I would absolutely give her permission to testify via video link. She should just recount exactly what she saw and heard. Whether that leads to the teacher facing consequences is entirely up to the judge, not her.
The teacher is the one who messed up, and he should be the one held accountable, not the students who spoke up.

I can empathize with parents who are scared or just don't want to cause friction—especially since it's the end of middle school and some have younger siblings still in the building. But at the same time, this sends a really dangerous message: that covering up wrongdoing is acceptable, or that it's okay to flee the scene of an incident and just wait for things to blow over (or worse, for the case to be dropped entirely).
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:please, let's not be naive here!!!🙂

Just like I knew exactly how this whole story would play out, I think I have a pretty good idea of the actual motivation behind this "petition."🤦
It isn't about trauma or Stockholm syndrome, goodness knows.

The man of God is handing out straight A's, and that's really what all these kids and their parents are aiming for. That seems to be the crux of the entire situation. Forget about the radical rhetoric or whatever else—those grades are what truly matter to them.🙂
With the full support of their parents, these kids are signing on to save the man of God, mostly because they want to keep those high GPAs coming. You see, these devout parents are terrified of who the church might send to replace him, and they're worried about what that might mean for their future grades, religious rites, and whatnot... excuse me, I meant grades.

After all, nobody actually wants to end up in hell, right?🥳


I think I’m pretty much on the same page as you there.
I think I should add one more little detail to this:

When you have teachers like that involved, children end up being the ones who pay the price in these kinds of situations—and honestly, the damage is pretty easy to see. I'm right here! What's on your mind? There are also experts involved who had firsthand knowledge of what was happening during religious education classes but chose to stay silent instead of reporting it.

If the kids were actually going to other teachers to report how he was acting, then they’re in a tough spot. It’s not just about potentially losing an A in religion class; it could easily spill over and impact their grades in his colleagues' classes too.
I took a quick peek at his Facebook profile, and man, he’s definitely got that whole "ultra-patriotic" vibe going on. It looks like he’s posted a bunch of those intense, nationalistic rants—though honestly, it seems like his wife might be cleaning them up for him, or maybe he just scrubbed them himself before the police showed up to pick him up. He’s also a huge fan of those old-school rock anthems; he actually went off on some news outlet just for mentioning kids singing patriotic songs on the last day of school.
If you take a look at his likes, you’ll notice quite a few of his former classmates hanging out there. They’re basically all part of the same circle, teaching those kids together. You can't see his full friends list unless you click through, but once you dive into the likes, you'll see plenty of staff members from that school popping up.

Even if the District Attorney decides not to call other staff members—though you’d think they’d at least want to interview the homeroom teachers—we're still left with a really tough reality. We have kids who are going to be called in to testify against one of their own teachers. On top of that stress, those same teachers are the ones responsible for grading them in subjects that are absolutely vital for their success and getting into high school. It's a heavy situation for everyone involved.

Look, I’m not trying to be a contrarian or take a swipe at teachers here—I really am—but I just want to reiterate what I said at the start of this thread. If you want to avoid all this unnecessary chaos, the simplest solution is just to not sign up for religion electives in the first place.

So, word got out that there was actually a teacher's assistant working during that specific period. I have to say, I’m a little surprised by that. From what I’ve seen with assistants I know, they don't usually get paid to cover elective classes. One assistant I worked with once told me her religion teacher actually told her there was absolutely no point in her sitting in on his class, even after she offered to step in and help him out for free just to support a student.
If he’s really that much of an extremist, I’m honestly baffled. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he feels completely untouchable—like he doesn't care who he's talking in front of because he thinks he's bulletproof. Honestly, the only thing that could have actually tripped him up was that video. Now, I can already see the lawyer jumping in to argue that the footage isn't admissible evidence and trying to flip the script to get the person who filmed it in trouble. 😢).
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:Honestly, you aren't really bringing anything new to the table here, which I think most people realized quite a while ago.🤷
It’s definitely a mess how the Church operates, especially with all those dioceses and the way they insist on placing untouchable religious instructors in our public schools.
But, I don't know, I can't really wrap my head around the idea of just starting a revolution against everything for the sake of it.
If there were less interest in attending these religious classes, things might look different, but that doesn't really have much to do with the other teachers—it’s almost entirely down to the students and their parents.🥳

Besides, this whole topic of religious education in schools isn't particularly interesting to me, so I don't see much point in overanalyzing it or going on a massive tangent.
My take is pretty simple: move the classes back to the church and call it a day.
But then again, who’s actually asking me? As long as more than 90% of the kids are still showing up to these lessons, I suppose nothing is ever going to change.


It's not common knowledge 🙂
You might be surprised by how little parents actually know about how these religious instructors are hired or who is actually in charge of them.🥳
Even though I felt pretty informed, I had no idea until recently that they get promoted to counselors and mentors much faster than regular teachers do.
To me, that feels like a real blow to the teaching profession.
Just awful.

And on this thread, you see parents with strong opinions, but they tend to stay quiet if things aren't looking bad or if it's not being highlighted—that's exactly why so many kids still attend.
In real life, it's even more pronounced.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:I suppose I’m just speaking from general experience regarding how parents tend to revolt within the American school system. It seems like they’ll push back against just about anything these days. You post something on Facebook and, well, within minutes, there’s a full-blown mob. Sometimes their grievances are actually valid, and sometimes they aren't really, but once that dust starts kicking up, it’s hard to stop it.

It isn't that school staff don't appreciate an entrepreneurial spirit—not at all.😉
Encouraging initiative and a sense of enterprise is fine, I guess. But unnecessarily poking the bear or starting fires where they don't need to be lit... that's a bit more questionable.
It can often be quite difficult to tell what the actual goal behind a certain "initiative" is supposed to be. (Not that I'm referring to this specific situation right now, obviously.)

Fair enough. I asked if you had specific experiences dealing with religion teachers versus regular classroom teachers, and you mentioned you just have general experience with parents revolting.

Let’s break this down step by step:
More people here have shared (and linked) stories where religious instructors aren't treated on equal footing with other teachers.
I get that you're annoyed by parents attacking the teaching profession and constantly questioning things, but we're talking about reporting a religious instructor. It’s about their hiring, their career advancement, their work ethic, and how they treat students.
If you're making reports without any proof, you can take that advice elsewhere.

An English teacher is going to face way more heat for asking kids to write an essay on a topic like "Where would Jesus lead us?" or "A prayer for my family"—even when following the approved curriculum and using standard textbooks🙄—than a religious instructor from a recent story (not naming names!) who hasn't provided any evidence.

Honestly, I don't think even that English teacher will get in trouble because nobody is questioning or changing religious views; if anything, people just offer a blessing. There isn't a massive Facebook mob that will result in a formal reprimand for a regular teacher, let alone getting fired without proof. 👎

Look at this whole topic... there are endless Facebook groups, articles on news sites like CNN or USA Today, and various other portals where people share their experiences regarding religious education, the curriculum, and how religious students are treated by instructors compared to non-religious ones. As far as I know, not a single religious instructor has been fired yet, despite all the stories.
Stories we know about.
Stories being discussed.
And unfortunately, there are stories we don't know about, where kids are just forced to deal with whatever is being served under the guise of "education."
In small towns where authority is never questioned, people just submissively follow along.
👎

Personally, it makes me a little sad that even regular teachers just quietly accept that their colleagues—despite being on the same budget and working in the same building—get more perks. Are you guys going to stand up for yourselves, or are you just waiting for parents to start a riot on Facebook?
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:From what I gather, there won't be any repercussions for the kid. Not that I’m saying there should be, since this is such a nuanced, gray area where you can't really say for sure if the ends justify the means.
Based on what I've seen, things could easily spiral out of control in the news if parents teamed up and claimed some idiot is promoting violence or intolerance. The real question is whether they could push the narrative all the way until he loses his job.

As for this idea of youth entrepreneurship: I mean, I admire it, but more often than not, that "entrepreneurial spirit" is really just the drive and financial backing of their parents.

Are you talking about regular classroom teachers or the religious ed instructors?

urbantinker8 said:From what I gather, there won't be any repercussions for the kid. Not that I’m saying there should be, since this is such a nuanced, gray area where you can't really say for sure if the ends justify the means.
Based on what I've seen, things could easily spiral out of control in the news if parents teamed up and claimed some idiot is promoting violence or intolerance. The real question is whether they could push the narrative all the way until he loses his job.

As for this idea of youth entrepreneurship: I mean, I admire it, but more often than not, that "entrepreneurial spirit" is really just the drive and financial backing of their parents.

Well, parental encouragement is essential here. 😬
That’s basically our job for the first 18 years of their lives, right? 😂

Plus, kids need some kind of support system.
I know school administrators aren't always big fans of that. And sure, sometimes that parental guidance can go off the rails, but if our ultimate goal is to raise people who stand up for themselves and fight for what they believe in, they need to see that modeled at home. At an age where it's developmentally appropriate, they really need someone to nudge them forward and stand by them when things get tough...
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Jacob Lopez2 said:So what? If some kid needs to face certain disciplinary actions, let them, but this kind of constant nitpicking is a much bigger problem.

I’ve noticed a pattern lately where certain people seem untouchable, almost like the standard for proving their "guilt" is totally different from how they judge any other teacher.
Honestly, I’m convinced this investigation wouldn't have even happened if it hadn't blown up in the media first.

Even though the principal claims she interviewed every single student in that class—and that the firing is based on those interviews rather than video footage—I have a feeling there wouldn't be an investigation at all if a student had just reported bad behavior during class without physical evidence. Even then, those student testimonies probably wouldn't be enough to justify firing someone.
It was just one emotionally charged hour, and at the end of the day, everyone is human and allowed to make mistakes. 😬
But because the principal is acting this way—and honestly, even the local school board wouldn't have a choice—he ended up losing his job.

Personally, I don't think it's right for a child—we're talking about a kid under 14 who isn't even legally liable under American law—to have to deal with any kind of fallout just because the adults in their life acted poorly.
Especially since these are the very people meant to be raising them.

That said, it is heartening to see young people actually standing up and taking action.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Sarah Hall53 said:I mean, honestly, just the whole idea of hiring religious instructors is controversial enough on its own—it’s one of those things that falls right into the believe it or not category.

The thing is, every other staff member at the school goes through the standard competitive hiring process via public job postings. But with the religious teachers? The local diocese just sends over their picks to the principal, and the principal basically just has to nod along and say "okay."

Exactly.
One thing I feel is vital—and part of why I got involved—is making parents realize that they shouldn't just enroll their kids in religious ed out of habit (you know, just so they don't stand out or have to sit in the hallway). They need to understand they are handing their child over for two hours a week to someone who might be great, or might not be.
And there isn't much anyone can do about it.
It's also an uphill battle trying to hold teachers accountable when they aren't doing their jobs (and some definitely don't), which often feels like tilting at windmills.

Just yesterday, I heard someone commenting about how wonderful the religion teacher at our local school is, and how she constantly teaches the kids about kindness.🙄
I just said, "Okay, but what happens if she gets sick mid-year and we get a substitute like this one?"
The whole room went silent.

Personally, I wouldn't want my child to face public backlash (which happens quite a bit) just because they used their phone to record something. But realistically, it's sometimes the only way to show someone's true colors, given how much protection these teachers tend to have.
He probably wouldn't have even lost his job if it hadn't gone viral in the news.

(Even though I truly admire my child for filming it, even if I don't fundamentally approve of recording teachers.)
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
There’s been a lot of talk lately regarding the religion teacher over at Lincoln Elementary in Chicago.

I think there’s something really important here for parents who might just be enrolling their kids in religion classes out of habit rather than choice, so I’m dropping the
link right here.

Just a little heads-up so you know exactly who you're trusting with your child for two hours every week.
Religion teachers actually have a unique career track. They can earn mentor status after just two years on the job, whereas regular public school teachers have to put in six years to reach that same level.

They can also become advanced advisors after three years, while other teachers have to wait until they've hit the 11-year mark. Since mentor and advisor statuses come with pay bumps, religion teachers tend to climb the salary ladder much faster.

The oversight system for standard teachers versus religion teachers is almost unbelievable. Typically, a principal evaluates a teacher's performance with approval from the Board of Education and the Department of Education.

But for religion teachers, the process is totally different. Their work is evaluated by an advisor from the Diocesan Catechetical Office, or specifically, a specialist from the National Catechetical Directory of the USCCB. Once the Church provides the evaluation, the principal simply signs off on it.

While the Department of Education handles professional development for teachers alongside the principal, religion teachers undergo training overseen by the Diocesan Catechetical Office in coordination with the National Catechetical Office of the USCCB.


Even though there’s been plenty of debate on news sites like CNN (😬) about whether the student who filmed everything should face disciplinary action, it looks like—despite the pressure from the church and those untouchable Vatican agreements—this guy is likely going to lose his job.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
wanderingbadger44 said:I think that’s an incredible way to look at things, and honestly, it’s a brilliant suggestion that could work just as well for high schoolers as it does for college students, letting everyone choose their own path based on what they actually want to study.

My only hesitation is that a plan like this usually comes with a hefty price tag, so we might have to face the reality that it’s out of reach before we even get started.

The real headache would be those schools that nobody wants to attend—the ones kids end up at because they couldn't get into their first choice (even if high school isn't mandatory anymore).
What happens to the teachers and principals in those situations? 😕

Technically, though, that could solve the funding issue. 😂

Larry Walker24 said:and room

because you can't just shove 1,000 people into a med program just because there isn't enough lab space or equipment.

I don't think the bottleneck is really in medical school—there's already plenty of screening happening long before students even apply, between entrance exams and people dropping out during freshman year. The real issues are likely in fields like economics, law, transportation, or American studies (and I won't even bring up divinity school, where enrollment is pretty much open to anyone who wants to finish the program).
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
wanderingbadger44 said:My main point was that anyone with enough academic leverage to actually make a choice—those with high enough test scores to aim higher—tends to steer clear of the public school system or social work, instead opting to engage in endless debates with the John Does of the world who think they're experts on everything.

It's a textbook case of negative selection.

I hear what you're saying, but there really needs to be some kind of baseline requirement for college admissions.
Even if there's a risk that nobody qualifies because they don't meet the standard, I still feel like elementary school teachers shouldn't be people who didn't pass advanced math in high school. These are the folks responsible for setting the mathematical foundation for a student's entire life 😕 over four years of intensive study 🥳)

Some of these degree programs just seem to exist for the sake of existing.

Larry Walker24 said:Getting just 20% on your high school math finals is all you need to scrape by with a passing grade

It’s honestly pathetic

That isn't just sad; it's downright terrible.
Especially when you consider how much weight those test scores carry for getting into any university.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:Not really.
I mean, I suspect the baseline requirement will probably just be knowing how to turn on a laptop and browse the web, mostly because finding anyone truly qualified who actually wants to apply for these positions seems unlikely.🕺

Actually, this feels like a bit of an open invitation to all those people constantly criticizing the school system—why not just put your names in for these openings and actually contribute something useful to the curriculum reform?😍
The pay is supposedly great, and the benefits are even better, so...👍
I don't know, who could possibly say no to that?🙂

You've got a point there. They won't even need an advanced computer science program; a theology major who knows how to boot up a laptop should be more than enough.🍿
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
wanderingbadger44 said:Look, I honestly don't get why someone who's already crushed advanced calculus would even consider enrolling at Teachers College. You really have to think about it.

And just wait until you see the absolute chaos of who they’ll actually be hiring to teach computer science once it becomes a mandatory subject. 😬

It’s not like they have to be geniuses, and not everyone who nails advanced math chooses to go into liberal arts or pure sciences (by the way, you need advanced math for psychology too).

I’m not expecting a perfect score on the SAT or anything, but if someone wants to become a teacher—someone whose whole job is laying the educational foundation for kids—and they choose the easier math track, I think that’s a real disservice to the teaching profession.

Computer science will probably end up being taught by theology majors with a minor in IT. 🥳 🙂
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
To me feels like such a farce—that you can get into Teachers College with just basic math on your high school exams.
I get it, teachers for the primary grades mostly cover addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. But personally, I’d expect someone responsible for laying the very foundation of our children's education to have absolutely crushed the advanced level of the math exam.
I don't know, maybe I just hold the teaching profession to a slightly higher standard. 🤔

Especially since the test questions tend to loop back to the same old stuff you just learn in class anyway. Honestly, I think it’s a bit of a shame that someone who actually wants to be a teacher is allowed to pass with just the basics.
It’s nothing.

And if I'm not totally off base here, any real reform should have started at the college level first.
If they could at least establish a solid foundation for new teachers—since it's pretty obvious that trying to change the veteran staff through reform, no matter how you do it, is going to be an uphill battle.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
rowdypanther12 said:If our education system were better, we probably wouldn't be dealing with so many anti-vaxxers and people drowning in debt in the States 😁

I’m asking you the exact same thing.
If you ask me what I’d change about our education system to prevent this kind of confusion from happening, I think we really need to rethink how we prioritize certain subjects. It's interesting because, looking at what kids learn today, they're already diving into things like vaccine science in the early grades, calculating interest rates on bank accounts, and practicing currency conversions in math class. I remember back when I was in school, we spent so much time on rote memorization that sometimes it felt like we were just learning how to pass a test rather than understanding how the world actually works. If I could step in and redesign the approach, I’d focus more on critical thinking and media literacy. Instead of just teaching the mechanics—like how to swap dollars for euros or how an interest rate works—we should be teaching students how to evaluate information and understand the "why" behind the facts. We need to give them the tools to navigate a world full of conflicting data so they can make informed decisions on their own. It’s all about building that foundation of logic early on!

I honestly think it’s just a fact of life: intelligence—or the lack thereof—tends to follow a bell curve. You can try all you want, but you can't just pour knowledge or common sense into everyone's head. Some people just get it, and others... well, they don't. It's one of those things you eventually just have to accept.
Regarding the vaccination situation, things have been getting interesting with the rollout of the new education laws. It seems like the Secretary of Education is actually pretty chill about it—she’s basically saying that if a parent chooses to take their kid to a private pediatrician for a consultation instead of using the school nurse, that should be perfectly fine. It's an interesting shift in how they're handling parental choice versus school requirements. It looks like they'll be posting something publicly in a few days..

Quincy:
When it comes to elective subjects, parents generally get to make those calls themselves anyway. But the real question is whether everyone is actually required to participate in those extra extracurricular activities—like, say, a check-in with the school nurse. In my view, a parent should always have the option to either handle those consultations personally or simply let the school professional take the lead. It’s so important to clear up these kinds of details, especially when you're navigating through all the conflicting information floating around lately.
It’s honestly wild how the Secretary of Education can just drop statements like that without even blinking, yet you don't see a single peep from school administrators or healthcare professionals. It feels like everyone is just looking the other way. 😲

I mean, I’ve been reading between the lines here, and honestly, I’ve come to my own conclusion. She didn't explicitly mention anything about being against vaccinations, but she definitely handed those foolish parents exactly what they wanted.
It’s not just about the vaccination debate, either—it's that whole dynamic where people walk right into a school and start demanding things like they own the place.
Because parents have that right.🙄

When it comes to those Swiss folks... honestly, I think even the best math professor would have tripped up with them. So, I wouldn't say the issue lies solely in whether someone actually understands how interest calculations work—because even an expert can mess that up. To me, the real issue goes a bit deeper than that: it’s about how they were chosen in the first place. 🙂
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
@JohnDoe-25, I remember learning about interest rates back when I was in seventh grade in middle school (I think that was about 🤣 years ago).
And I’m pretty sure kids are still being taught the exact same thing, along with percentages, in seventh grade today.
Middle school is mandatory,
and seventh grade is part of that core curriculum,
so everyone gets the chance to learn it.

So, what are you actually suggesting regarding interest calculations?
Should we increase math hours in seventh grade so kids get more practice?
Or maybe tighten up the grading criteria for units that cover interest?
Or should bankers come in and teach it instead of math teachers?
What’s your take? If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re an instructor yourself, so go ahead—how would you pass this info on to kids and teens?

Again, the material is already in the school system. How would you organize the process so these kids truly grasp it, see how it works in the real world, and actually remember it by the time they're applying for credit?
(Word problems, reading comprehension, basic addition and subtraction are all covered in the earlier elementary grades. Playing "store" or "grocery shop" is something they start in preschool, though you'll often see older kids playing it during after-school programs right around the time they master their basic arithmetic...)
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:😂

...and you're only going to find someone like that once people stop constantly criticizing the profession, stop trying to micromanage how teachers do their jobs (you know, those people who think they know better than the actual experts), once decent working conditions are actually provided (adequate space, supplies, reasonable class sizes...), and once we end the negative selection process caused by salaries that are, frankly, hovering somewhere around what a cashier makes at a decent big-box retailer.☕

Regarding outfitting those photography classrooms, do you actually have a link for that, or were you just using it as a figure of speech?
Because I genuinely doubt those claims, especially since even various cabinet members put computers at the top of the priority list before anything else. We'll probably never actually see them arrive, but it sure is nice to talk about them.🙂
And by the way, there's a chronic shortage of hairdressers; I have a few friends who run their own salons and they've been struggling to find employees for years. Part of that is probably because everyone wants to be their own boss nowadays and nobody wants to work for someone else, but then again, if there wasn't demand, those salons wouldn't be packed and the prices wouldn't be so sky-high.😒

Parents will stop interfering once you stop asking for their permission for everything, stop calling them into school for every little hiccup, showing them every single test score, and begging them to help the kids study.

Honestly, seeing how much debate has flared up here over minor details—like whether certain facts in a geography lesson are being taught or not—makes it pretty obvious how much energy is being wasted on trivialities. It lets parents dictate how you do your job, and usually, they just end up criticizing it.
The Secretary of Education is doing the exact same thing with her proposed education law changes. It’s such a shame that as professionals, you didn't step up and react to that.
In the online consultation proposals, there's a ton of copy-paste nonsense from people demanding homeschooling or insisting that parents are the ultimate authority on their child's upbringing and should be left entirely to their own devices.
But hey, once the law passes, at least we'll have legalized the flaws in our school system. That'll probably lead to even more chaos in the classroom, since parents will likely have to give permission for every school counselor or psychologist visit. I wouldn't be surprised if it extends to medical checkups too, because apparently, the parent is always right. That's what the Secretary says, anyway,)
If you look at the link, you can see how underserved communities are facing pressure regarding where USA funds should be directed. To me, that’s further proof that some schools need urgent modernization before others (and I'm pretty sure training photographers and hairstylists isn't a national priority... unless being a blogger or YouTuber is one of the top career goals for kids these days?)