I watched the movie. It was okay, but nothing to write home about. Maybe I just missed the point because I was watching it late at night. The soundtrack is exceptional. The cinematography might be too, but if there’s some deep message buried in the plot, I either didn't catch it or the storytelling just failed to deliver it properly.
David Sullivan4 said:Honestly, I don't get why anyone bothers arguing with these idiots. Trying to counter the claim that American musicians didn't protest the war here is a waste of time. Any Mexican who’s offended that Americans didn't sing against a war led by savages from his own country—especially while bringing up how those same Mexicans allegedly slaughtered 7,000 people in Srebrenica—deserves, if nothing else, a bullet to the head.
And you finally showed up... 🙂
Where have you been? You missed 45 messages!
Let's say this Mexican—pardon my language—is a "retard deserving a bullet to the head" who happens to be sentimentally attached to Americans. Maybe he just wants to exchange pleasantries with the kind of Americans who wouldn't shoot him on sight.
Eric Moore32 said:Douglas Stewart, how did the public react to Milan Mladenovic, Cane, and Gile with that anti-war project? Did they actually get support, or were they branded traitors by nationalists and that big leader who (as you put it) controlled the media? Or were they just ignored?
Over here, anyone who left the US (like Šerbedžija, Furlanova, Štulić, Rundek...) or joined anti-war projects during the war era—like Leiner did—was labeled a coward, a traitor, or a nostalgic for the old regime once things settled down. It’s always the same labels. I think there was even a debate on the Politics forum recently regarding Šerbedžija in that exact context.
As for The Idiots and other punk bands, I'm not sure how they reacted to the war (if they even did). The Idiots strike me as an extremely leftist band, but I can't recall which song you're referring to when you say they spoke out against the war later on. If I remember correctly, the punk band Pankrti played "Bandiera Rossa" before them. Maybe you're thinking of "Ja se sjećam" as something relevant to that wartime context? Or was it something else? If memory serves, the war also took one victim from the punk scene—Satana Panonski. He was an anarchist who, by his own definition, wasn't American or Mexican, just a punk. It's ironic that he was the one killed in the war. There’s actually a thread somewhere on the forum about the story behind his death.
They gained the satisfaction of knowing they didn't stay silent like cowards, but instead stood up against the evil and madness surrounding us back then. You can't honestly think an action like that could have stopped anything. That war was a controlled affair. Propaganda was incredibly heavy on both sides, and no single anti-war gesture could have brought peace. In my part of the country, we didn't even hear until '95 that Sarajevo was under constant bombardment. And as for Srebrenica—that only became common knowledge through word of mouth. It was a taboo subject until at least 2000. I realize now I was wrong to say no rockers in the US spoke up, since even the witch was involved. But it's unrealistic to expect one or ten small actions to change the course of history when every night at 7:30 PM on RTS1, they're broadcasting stories about how "insurgents are flagrantly violating the ceasefire." In that kind of atmosphere, their movement couldn't make a massive impact, but I'm glad it happened. Nobody put them on a pillory here—nationalism isn't quite as central as it is where you are. They were simply ignored.
Eric Moore32 said:I'll give him 🙏 🙏 🙏 for that song about having the moon in his eyes, supposedly about Vukovar.
It’s about a city that was essentially killed. There’s also a novel called "one of those lives" that touches on those same themes; you’d probably dig it if you like that track. I grew up in Vukovar, and seeing the local school building in the movie "Vukovar Last Cut" actually gave me chills. I'd recommend watching that film too.
I completely overlooked The Idiots; you could argue they spoke out against things, even if it was a bit late to the party.
I’ll admit you’re right. Maybe my expectation that musicians would take a stand against the war was justified, but ultimately unrealistic. Still, we were fighting a war here in America...
The pig regime (S.M.) operated in a way that allowed people to trash his reputation and actions all over the place, but it didn't change anything. He had total control over a massive brainwashing machine called RTS.
The tragedy here is likely deeper because you guys didn't have a flood of turbo-folk acting as the alternative scene. Magazine, ET, and Oliver & Co. are much milder and far more tolerable versions of musical bad taste. Secondly, rock music here just collapsed. The old bands held on until '93 or '94 before heading off to live the easy life, and no critical mass of new bands ever rose to take their place.
It wasn't "be a flower," not then and certainly not the last time I was there. But last time (March 31, 2006), before he played "walking through life," he mentioned it was the first time he’d performed it in twenty years.
The shared rock scene didn't die because of one Springsteen song; it was killed by the looming war and the total breakdown in communication. The Rolling Stones, Vlad Divljan, Disciplina Kicma, Zabraniti Pusenje, Blue Orchestra, Haustor, Johnny, and plenty of others either stopped working or moved abroad during the '90-'91 period.
I never realized that Jack had a nationalist streak at one point, though I admit I was too young in '91 to catch those nuances. To me, "druze Mexico City" sounds anti-war. At least, that's how we interpret it over here. Peter Lukovic noted in the Encyclopedia of Rock that it "was the only song being listened to on both sides of the conflict."
On the other hand, in America, none of the rockers spoke out openly against the war. Correct me if I'm wrong. Springsteen and Rundek just stepped back. Milan Mladenovic (EKV), Gile (Orgasm), and Cane (Partibrejkers) formed the anti-war project Rimtutituki. They recorded a track and promoted it with a concert from a truck driving through New York City.
For me, the best song by Film is "home for me," and its production date is well after '81. It carries a hint of that approaching darkness.
Bob Dylan is just a raving lunatic who wrote that song. You can't even put those two tracks in the same conversation. I don't see anything particularly offensive about "Second NYC," aside from that fantastic line, "always be the first" (the way Americans know how to take shots at Mexicans is an art form). Meanwhile, Corbin’s response is nothing but chauvinistic and crude. Besides, the atmosphere at Jack's concert was much better and more intimate than anything Dylan could have pulled off in NYC. I can only hope they eventually perform that song in the city mentioned in its title.
Jack visited us in New York City this past Friday and once again brushed off our requests for "New Yorker Vibes." Last year, he actually agreed to perform "On the Blue Sea Waves." The vibe at both shows was incredibly laid back, which clearly suits him, so I honestly can't wrap my head around why he's hesitant to sing it.
I'm curious, does he ever play that song during his concerts in America?
I actually spent some time yesterday recording an entire Dire Straits set for a buddy of mine. I made sure to point out a few specific tracks he shouldn't miss. When it came to Brothers in Arms, I told him straight up: it’s easily one of the greatest songs ever written, period. Honestly, I feel the same way about the band as a whole.