Posts by electricviper23

frozenangler12 said:Yeah, the same logic applies when you look at Medicare & Medicaid Services too...

👍

ruggedlynx63 said:Nope, you don't have to. You can register the business with Medicare & Medicaid Services just to get a registration number on file, but if you aren't hiring anyone, it’s totally optional... Once you finally bring on your first employee, that's when you handle the filings for both the business and the worker at the same time...

Thanks, electricviper23! 🙏Does the same logic apply to health insurance?

A company with zero employees—do I still have to file anything with Social Security or Medicare & Medicaid Services? Does anyone have any actual experience with this...

Joshua Wright2 said:Try walking into a Chase branch and asking for an interest-free loan; you will quickly see how they respond. I am not saying I agree with capitalism—heaven forbid—but it is currently the economic system we all inhabit, and its fundamental mechanism involves accumulation and the creation of surplus. Corporations are established specifically to operate, earn, and generate excess. While lending money without interest is theoretically commendable, it isn't in the spirit of capital formation. Even if you decide to give something away as a gift, the government will protect its interests and say, "Fine, go ahead and gift it, but I still want my cut of the sales tax and corporate income tax." At the core of the matter, whenever a corporation is formed with a specific owner, it must be understood that that individual is not the sole owner. If one looks realistically, the state effectively holds at least a 50% stake in that entity. This is because more than half of what an entrepreneur earns will eventually go to the government through various taxes and contributions. The state is essentially protecting its own equity, its sales tax, and its income tax... in essence, its share in the business.

If we are talking about different periods, then fine: first pay back your own loan, and then lend from your surplus. However, if you are simultaneously taking out a loan with tax-deductible interest and then lending that same money interest-free to other companies, you are effectively stealing a slice of the government's cake, as you are reducing the profits that rightfully belong to the state. I am unsure what you find illogical about that. It is similar to other legal precedents in the tax code; for example, you cannot claim tax-deductible depreciation on an asset that does not, or cannot, generate sufficient revenue, even if it is being used. You cannot simply gift items from your inventory unless they are given to partners from whom you expect a significantly greater economic benefit "tomorrow" through the purchase of those same products... and so on.

I wouldn't use Chase 😁 bank bank as a benchmark for logic or theory 😁, that's obvious. My example was regarding entrepreneurship and corporations. I am a supporter of capitalism, though certainly not the "wild west" variety. I am trying to condense my response into a single thought based on your text, but it isn't working 😁. In the context of my small business example, an interest-free loan is not "interest-free lending." Quite the opposite! Just because there is no interest rate doesn't mean there is no interest involved. The "interest" lies in the service provided, in the accommodation made—something you can also expect when you find yourself in such a situation. That is what constitutes interest, in my view. I have seen this firsthand many times, though it applies to exceptional business relationships, not as a rule for developing ties with every single corporation, and I'm not suggesting everyone does so. As for everything else regarding how the state functions and the points you listed, I agree. That is how it is, and that is how I see it too.

I don't understand why you think I am lending money from a LOAN as if it were a business loan? That makes no sense. I grasp the principle of taxation. But money from a LOAN?! I take out a loan, and simultaneously, I have income from product sales. That income from sales—that earned money—is what I lend to someone else in the form of a loan. Money from the loan itself, for example, might be spent on buying real estate. What connection could there possibly be between one form of money (from a loan) and another form of money (a business loan)? 😲

Jessica Gonzalez30 said:It applies to every single individual receiving the loan, rather than the one providing it.

👍 thanks, Jessica Gonzalez30 🙏

ruggedlynx63 said:I totally agree that if you're lending money to an individual—regardless of whether they actually work for the corporation or not—you've got to account for interest.
But, I don't know, I personally feel like when you look at it this way, a sole proprietorship should be treated as a business entity rather than just some random person, which means a loan between a corporation and a sole proprietorship shouldn't necessarily trigger those mandatory interest calculations.
I mean, if you draft a loan agreement between Xy (the lender) and Joe Smith (the borrower), then yeah, interest is a must, but if the contract is signed between Xy and YZ, I just don't see why interest would be required since both sides are clearly business entities... Maybe I'm totally off base here, though... someone please set me straight if I've got this wrong.

Is this actually required to apply to unemployed individuals within a corporation too...? 😲

Joshua Wright2 said:To begin with, from my personal perspective, lending money interest-free is fundamentally contrary to accounting standards, tax regulations, and ultimately, the very capitalist principles upon which corporations are built. However, if the law permits it, then it is acceptable.
Admittedly, for the first few years of my practice, the implications weren't entirely clear to me, but in my local area, this has become an increasingly common issue during audits. I would certainly welcome it if others could share their own experiences regarding this matter.
The reality of the situation is quite straightforward. You claim interest on a loan as a deductible expense to reduce your corporate income tax liability. Simultaneously, you provide a loan to another party without charging interest. The IRS will simply refuse to allow that deduction to lower your tax base unless you charge interest on the lent funds at a rate equal to what you are paying; otherwise, you are effectively increasing your taxable income. If you had used that cash to pay off your own bank loan instead of providing interest-free loans elsewhere, you wouldn't even have the interest expense to deduct, and your tax base would remain higher regardless.

Personally, I don't find this contrary to business principles at all, because it comes down to the decision to provide a loan and the specific terms under which that loan is granted. If a corporation is doing exceptionally well—liquid, solvent, and perhaps working with a business partner who wants to borrow funds to invest or simply to survive due to temporary unpaid receivables—and those partners have shown mutual support and understanding for years. For instance, maybe that partner didn't call in a promissory note while the other was late on payments or paying outside of terms, etc. So, Xy situation... why shouldn't this one lend money without interest? On the contrary, it is business culture. It harms no one, and it contributes to something positive. Economics is economics, capitalism... whatever you want to call it. But again—behind every bit of capital, there are people. People who work and create, who sacrifice and survive. And therefore, it seems absurd to think this contradicts any principles, let alone the ones you listed. At least in my view.

This line of reasoning from the tax authorities makes absolutely no sense to me. I see no connection between those two actions... everything in business can be viewed strictly through the lens of corporate income tax, so they can't just manipulate it. What on earth does a corporation's purpose for taking out a loan have to do with lending money to someone else?! One might be relevant during a specific period of operations, while the other applies under totally different conditions and timeframes... I'm getting a bit worked up now, sorry, but I suppose I'm too highly educated to stomach this lack of logic😁🍿

Tyler Kelly2 said:Thanks for the input, everyone.
electricviper23—the corporation is giving a loan to a sole proprietorship (totally separate entity). I came across some info saying that in this setup, the sole proprietorship is treated just like an individual, which Jessica Gonzalez30 and Joshua Wright2 apparently confirmed. If there’s no interest at a minimum of 3%, it gets flagged as in-kind income—regardless of whether the person is an employee or not...

From what I can gather, I need to issue an invoice without sales tax to account for the interest. Are there any specific legal deadlines here—like monthly, or maybe within 15 days after the loan is repaid—that I have to hit when issuing the interest invoice?

By that logic, interest must be charged on every single loan a corporation makes to an individual who isn't an employee of that firm... which contradicts the advice I received earlier. Does anyone know for certain? 🤔

Joshua Wright2 said:I am in complete agreement with Jessica Gonzalez30 regarding small businesses; this logic simply does not apply to them.
However, even when dealing with larger corporations, one must exercise extreme caution. If a company providing a loan currently holds an outstanding credit line with a bank like JPMorgan Chase, the IRS will likely demand that the interest rate on the loan be set at a minimum level equal to their own borrowing costs. Now, you might ask why this is necessary. It comes down to a matter of proof: how can they demonstrate that the funds being lent out are actually sourced from the bank loan rather than their own liquid cash reserves? It is quite straightforward. If a firm lends money interest-free to another entity while simultaneously paying interest to its bank, it essentially subsidizes the borrower. They could have used those same funds to pay down their own debt and avoid interest altogether. Therefore, when managing loans between legal entities, if a company carries any form of bank debt, the IRS will certainly not permit an interest-free loan to another corporation.

This is news to me. I've had the IRS auditing my books plenty of times throughout my career, and they never once looked at it this way...😲😲has anyone else run into this before?

Jessica Gonzalez30 said:Interest-free loans are typically reserved for transactions between two legal entities.
Since a sole proprietor doesn't have a separate legal identity from themselves—it's just one person—I honestly think there should be a modest interest rate, maybe something around 3%, just to keep things above board.

Loans also occur between a corporation and an individual if the individual is lending to the entity.

You are likely confusing legal capacity (the ability to enter contracts) 😁 with the fact that a corporation is lending to a sole proprietor. It isn't necessary here. A private citizen isn't lending to their own business; rather, a corporation is lending to its employee... which is fundamentally different. ☕

Or perhaps I have misinterpreted the core question regarding the exact source of the funds: is it the LLC or the owner acting as a private individual?

SolitaryPixel Asks:
As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong)... A corporation can issue an interest-free loan to another business entity without any issues. However, if that same company extends a loan to an individual... they are legally required to charge interest.
As a director, I am looking to issue a loan to a business partner to ensure they maintain sufficient liquidity. I am struggling to find a straight answer to one simple question: am I permitted to provide this loan interest-free to another corporation, or am I legally required to charge interest because the business entity is treated identically to its owner...?

Look, it's simple. If that individual is an actual employee of the company, then yes. If they aren't... then no.

If a corporation is issuing funds to a small business owner, interest shouldn't even be on the table...

frozenangler12 said:Someone at the Medicare & Medicaid Services office mentioned to me recently that they require us to hand-deliver every single update in person. Apparently, even when you just need to correct some basic information, you still have to file that T1 form manually...

I only ever update my info through lana.mirovinsko.com, and so far, nobody from Medicare & Medicaid Services has ever come looking for updates. If they’ve switched to an automated system, I honestly assumed everything would sync up automatically once I updated it on the Social Security site...🤔