Posts by George Ortiz15

Thomas Davis4 said:http://www.auto.cz/slovenske-automob...prida-vw-55192

"General Motors employs roughly 7,000 people across its Washington, D.C. and Martinsburg plants, with an average gross salary sitting around $3,500."

To put that in perspective:

"General Motors employs about 7,000 people at its Washington, D.C. facility, with an average salary of approximately $3,500."

That group of 7,000 includes high-level specialists, plant supervisors, administrators, and managers—which explains why that average figure looks so inflated. It’s the same story we saw last year when they claimed the average pay in Rhode Island was roughly $1833, even though I'd bet my life 65% of those employees have never seen that kind of money.

Over at the Chevrolet plant in Romania, assembly line workers pull in between $400 and $600. The average is about $500, which is roughly $1.25. Honestly, you could find workers in Rhode Island making that same amount.

As for the actual plants, look at what happened with General Motors moving operations to Pittsburgh. I heard from a colleague that the Americans were dealing with constant theft; people were stealing iron and pipes straight off the line. They installed security, but it didn't do a damn thing. They faced harassment, nighttime thefts, dogs being killed, fences being torn down—it was a mess. The company begged the Government for protection or police presence because the losses were mounting, but the Government just looked the other way. No one stepped up. Energy costs spiked, theft went unchecked, and the whole operation fell apart.

I have no idea what the Government spends its time doing, but they clearly aren't focusing on the economy. They can't handle current crises, let alone attract new business. An Arab investor once wanted to buy a hotel in Monticello, but they tripped over the paperwork and caused such a headache that the investor just gave up and went home.

Add to that the fact that there isn't the kind of workplace bullying you see in Rhode Island. Different standards, set hours, actual days off, zero politics... basically, you can actually have a life and a family.

It beats working for a massive conglomerate like Agrokor any day...

Linda Roberts2 said:Of course, General Motors is now a major driver of development in Mexico. Every single day, two trains loaded with cars head out from Detroit for export. The plant was designed for 300,000 units, and they're currently hitting 200,000, with daily production at 480 cars across two shifts. They're even planning a third shift next month to ramp things up further.
The benefits are pretty multifaceted: worker training and employment, narrowing the trade deficit, bringing in secondary suppliers, infrastructure growth, expanding production lines, and implementing high-level automation and computerization.
General Motors has also teamed up with local colleges and vocational schools, even helping out with training equipment. For instance, the local technical school received mini-robots for training that are basically clones of the ones used on the actual assembly line.
At first, there was a lot of pushback about giving General Motors too many incentives—like $10,000 per worker and ten years of tax breaks—but ever since production actually kicked into gear, nobody seems to care about those initial complaints anymore.

It’s easy to talk about tying small businesses to industry when there’s actually something substantial for American entrepreneurs to latch onto.

And it's easy to train people when they actually have access to hands-on experience...

At the end of the day, that's how you build real competition. American business owners will be forced to respect collective bargaining agreements just to keep from losing their best talent to the big players.

Amanda Diaz said:Look, colleague,

You’ve got a point, but there’s something even worse that I see our politicians pull all the time, and that is spin.

For example, "spin" is when some guy on a forum disagrees with me and brings up facts that have absolutely nothing to do with what I actually wrote...

So, if you look at my posts, I started by comparing a General Motors plant and their wages in Mexico, then I brought up how much workers in auto plants across Eastern Europe make, and later we moved the conversation toward Slovakia.

I don't know if you paid attention in geography class, but the Czech Republic isn't Slovakia or Mexico; it's a more developed country with a higher standard of living than those places...

Furthermore, let me warn you that it's also considered spin when you present data without mentioning that it applies to everyone except management—meaning it includes people with Master's degrees too.😉

I know you aren't one of those malicious types on these forums, so I'll just chalk this up to a simple lack of knowledge on your part...

Best, Amanda Diaz

Hey,

here's a little something regarding countries in Eastern Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe

And you mentioned some different car brands that weren't part of this; we were talking about Ford, if I recall correctly...

I don't think you're trying to be malicious either; you aren't really spinning anything...

At the end of the day, wages don't even matter if a huge chunk of the population doesn't have jobs to begin with...

Southeast European countries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Europe

And Central European countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe

But we could always start a thread about where we fit in, and
after that, it might be worth starting a discussion on the industrial divisions of Europe...

Since everyone and their mother seems to be chiming in based on some random rumor they overheard at a local dive bar about salaries starting from... $1000And here we are—those of us working in automation and robotics—completely irrelevant to these kinds of data sets. Anyway, here’s some numbers and what those collective bargaining agreements actually look like...

Looks like Volkswagen is moving in on the Slovak market. They’re adding more models to the lineup there, basically stepping up their game to compete with the local players. It’s a smart move—expanding the footprint where they already have some traction. Expect to see more of these hitting the streets soon.

The average price of eco-friendly stocks is looking pretty shaky right now. If you were counting on green energy to carry your portfolio through the year, you might want to check your math. It’s a rough patch for anyone betting big on sustainability plays.

The auto industry is hitting a wall. Recent reports suggest massive layoffs are looming across the sector. It’s not just rumors anymore—companies are actually pulling the trigger. We're looking at a serious contraction, much like what happened during the big downturns in the past. It feels like the shift toward EVs is hitting the traditional manufacturing hubs harder than anyone expected. Just watch, more red flags are coming.

I can't access that specific link, but if you paste the text here, I'll get to work rewriting it. Just give me the raw content and I'll transform it into my usual style—short, punchy, and strictly American.

Analysts are sounding the alarm on the current economic outlook. It’s looking pretty shaky, and they aren't pulling any punches about the potential fallout. Basically, the experts think we might be heading toward a rough patch sooner rather than later. It’s like watching a storm cloud roll in over the Midwest—you can see it coming, and there isn't much anyone can do but brace for impact.

Hyundai is finally making moves with their new lineup. It looks like they're trying to shake things up in the market, much like how Ford handles their mid-range stuff. They aren't just playing it safe anymore; there’s a clear push to compete with the big players. It’s an interesting pivot to watch.

Look, you’re looking at maybe a few hundred bucks at Hyundai, but once you hit the German brands like BMW, you’re easily clearing $3,000. Just do the math.

Look at food prices and rent, and it’s pretty obvious why they're heading our way instead of the other way around.

So, you’re looking at anywhere from $600 to $700, maybe even pushing $1,000 or $1,300 if you've got a German boss on the payroll. If we take the average exchange rate... $2.50 Not sure how this works. $1000....


Obviously, it all depends on who’s pulling the strings.

What’s the typical pay for someone with a master's degree working in a school?
It’s anywhere from $4k to $5k depending on seniority, and honestly, these volunteers aren't worth the paper they're written on.

What's the typical pay for retail work these days?
2600-3200
How many doctors aren't on call?
6000-7000

Maintenance managers at private firms out in the Sun Belt? You're looking at $6k to $8k, and they’re expected to be on call 24/7.

It doesn't really matter if Ford decides to set up shop here or not. What matters is what we’re doing right now to actually create jobs—and more importantly, how we're making sure those positions stay protected from every angle. At the end of the day, it all comes down to whether we can actually keep the talent here.

The absolute worst kind of ignorance is when you actually think you know what you're talking about. Doesn't matter if he had ten degrees to his name.

Relying on our media and politicians is exactly how we ended up in this mess.

Look further than what’s right in front of you, as the old saying goes,
because if we hadn't pushed harder, we wouldn't be where we are today!

driftingorca37 said:You're missing the point.

Why on earth would Ford come to the US when the tax burden is higher, labor costs are significantly steeper, wages are high, and the bureaucracy is slower and less cooperative?

In Slovakia, everything is much more favorable for them.

they aren't just going to show up. they'll come if we roll out the red carpet. personally, I think we should do EVERYTHING—if they want a total tax holiday or a custom-built facility, fine—whatever it takes to get them here. but we don't do all that because we don't grasp what the payoff actually is. people don't understand how job creation leads to modernization and actual skill building...
nor do we understand the relationship between workers and retirees in the US, or even the mess we're currently in...

bottom line: they probably don't care about any of those other hurdles...

this whole debate is stuck on why Ford won't come, instead of focusing on how to make them want to stay.

So, what does America need to change to actually attract investment?

WAGES CERTAINLY AREN'T THE ISSUE since these exact same companies call us from abroad offering way, way more money...

take this one example from the US regarding new plants: Altria bought a tobacco factory about ten years ago, modernized the whole operation, hired locals, and paid decent wages (people were practically fighting for jobs there), and then we SCREWED THEM OVER. now they're in Niš, and it's not because labor is cheaper there, it's because their lobbyists can just go create jobs wherever they want!!!!!!!!!!

placidtinker39 said:Is Ford moving to America really a golden goose for the economy? I wouldn't go that far. Nobody seems to be talking about what the government actually hands over to a corporation like that—we’re looking at a ten-year corporate tax holiday plus incentives ranging from $3,000 to $18,000 for every single job created.

I don't know exactly what kind of profits Ford is pulling in, but it's clearly massive, which means those lost corporate taxes are a huge deal. When you multiply that tax revenue by ten years, you end up with a staggering amount of money that we’re essentially waving goodbye to right out of the gate. They're talking about thousands of jobs here; if they hire just 1,000 workers and we factor in the minimum incentive of $3,000 per person, that’s $3,000,000 gone instantly.

With that kind of cash on the table, we could have probably funded a few homegrown companies instead...

Here we go again with the misunderstanding or just straight-up not reading. It's not just about entry-level workers; check out the posts regarding the engineers, assemblers, machinists, electricians...

Companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, or Raytheon...

There are standards and tech involved here. There's a market level that local small businesses just can't touch. The auto industry isn't some simple thing you can wrap your head around via an internet forum.

Sure, let's throw a billion dollars at it; we'll create jobs across the board...

Look, grab a hammer and an anvil and see if you can pull in that kind of money.

Where do you even live?

Ever heard of patents, licensing, and industry standards?

driftingorca37 said:That part isn't even up for debate.

The real question is why on earth would a company like Ford decide to set up shop in America?

It’s impossible to open anything when people can't grasp what a company like that actually brings to the table. You see three pages of rambling about how Americans wouldn't work for peanuts, which just proves how clueless everyone is. It shows there's zero actual expertise here. If that's how the government thinks, then yeah, Ford has nothing to do with us.

And how are you supposed to beat the competition for contracts if you don't realize this triggers a massive boom—tourism, construction, mechanical engineering, electrical work... everything takes off.

Here’s some half-baked math for you:
One single machine needs three or four guys just to get it installed and running (programmer, assembler, electrician, tech). Now imagine a plant with 4,000 or 5,000 machines—don't even get me started on the specs unless you have a second degree in mechanical engineering. Factor in the two months they spend on-site for lodging and food, and the costs are huge. And that’s just before things go live. Don't think for a second that the Germans won't be working in those plants too; they aren't just handing everything over to the locals.

And obviously, you don't just build all the machines at once; you assemble them line by line depending on the plant layout.
Specialized machine tools aren't your basic drills or TVs...

Sinumerik, Fanuc, Indramat, Bosch, ABB, Festo...
Marpos, Sandvik, Artis...
Eplan, Simatic, AutoCAD, CATIA...
Google those terms and you might actually start to understand the sheer complexity of the auto industry.

Thomas Davis4 said:Have you ever actually seen what a Ford plant looks like? I’ve had the chance to walk through one. Robots assemble almost the entire car, except for the interior. Every worker has their specific little slice of the pie. Most of the time, they are just monitoring robots and setting them up. The rest of the crew grabs some plastic, snaps it onto a door, secures it, and passes it along. It’s the same repetitive motion every single day. For $1000. In a serious corporation, where you get actual rights and benefits, paid time off, and all those other perks. For a blue-collar worker who just wants to clock in, finish their shift, and go home, it's the pinnacle. You don't need a Master's degree to install 90% of the equipment. It's quick training and then you're out. Just ask a cashier at Walmart how hard they kill themselves for $2500.

Sure, but people overlook the ripple effect. When a massive player like Ford moves in, they aren't just bringing assembly lines; they're bringing a demand for new machinery. That opens doors for machine tool builders—specialized equipment can run anywhere from a few hundred thousand to several million dollars. We're talking mechanical and electrical engineers, installers, machinists. You need people for construction, assembly, programming, robot maintenance, and jig design. All those high-level roles come with global price tags because they're complex. Don't just focus on the line operators; machine building is a massive industry with huge margins.....

And a factory doesn't just pop up overnight.....
Machines come with warranties lasting up to five years. It takes at least six months just to design and commission a single unit, let alone overhaul it after thousands of hours. Think about the scale: thousands of machines mean thousands of people needing housing and food.......

Think about the revenue generated just from housing the crews that install and commission these machines, not even mentioning the precision work involved in measuring parts.

Look at how many Americans are working on installation, assembly, and machine construction all over the US and the world.

Machines need major overhauls. Someone checking if a couple of units need oil or if there's scrap shouldn't be making more than the person who actually engineered the machine.....

Believe it or not, Americans have been building machines for Ford, Mercedes, Ford, Audi, and Volkswagen for a long time now...

Amanda Diaz said:So, after all the endless debating, we’ve finally circled back to what I’ve been saying from day one. The real question is whether anyone actually thinks that money was earned fairly... Personally, I doubt there are enough people who feel that way, though maybe I'm the one missing something.

Let me give you another example. Since I work in the shipbuilding industry, I had the chance to sit down with the sales director of a shipyard in Poland that builds yachts and sailboats for some of the biggest global brands. I asked him straight up how they managed to stay so competitive and land all those contracts. His answer? In their facility, labor accounts for about 30% of the boat's total cost, whereas here in the States, that number jumps to nearly 50%.

When survival is on the line, people will work for $333. All that talk about "not doing it" goes out the window once you're staring at kids who have nothing to eat. Shipbuilding is the same deal—you'd end up buying the exact same transformer three or four times. How do you explain Germany being so competitive when they have some of the most expensive labor on the planet?

People will work in the USA if there's work to be done, regardless of the chatter. Sure, some won't, but most people finish school because that's what you do. That's the majority, at least in places like Boston; maybe it's different in Los Angeles....

Thomas Davis4 said:$1000 is just a number some random users pulled out of thin air. They’re claiming it represents an average at a plant in either Slovakia or Mexico. Of course, there isn't any actual data to back that up.

The topic at hand is Ford in America and everything surrounding it.

If anyone actually believed Ford was seriously moving to the USA, they’re delusional. Slovakia has an established industrial base, massive tax breaks, and you can clear all the red tape before you even finish your morning coffee. They have the experience. Building a plant outside of Slovakia is nothing more than a pipe dream.

A board member basically admitted they're only looking at other options to squeeze even better deals and incentives out of the Slovaks. It's a cheap management tactic that's been around for centuries. ☕

And who’s going to deal with our "experts" who think they know everything about wage scales and whether people will actually show up to work? Besides, why would we care about Ford when we have our own local entrepreneurs to handle everything...

God forbid someone suggests the actual basics needed to attract massive investments that could jumpstart the economy. You'd need to look at the macro picture—whether we're in a recession, a crisis, or just standing still...

The idea of giving them total tax immunity, building their entire facility, and handing over free utilities just so they hire a few thousand people and trickle some payroll taxes back into the budget? Nobody cares about that.

Don't even get me started on how this would impact our machine tool industry, aluminum die casting, or machining. Or how it would feed construction companies. That doesn't matter either. Apparently, it’s more important to build new airports, ports, and highways. The priority is just getting people from Chicago down to the coast as fast as possible, while our local business owners "take care" of the jobs...

So, how can anyone argue that we actually need technical professionals?

Our servers make a year's salary in a few months; what do hotel maids even pull in?

An organized country like Slovakia isn't even a fair comparison to the US because they haven't paved over everything. They haven't dumped millions into concrete sidewalks and asphalt in every single industrial park. They focus on organic farming because their land is cheaper to work, and they don't obsess over real estate because it's half the price here. Plus, fuel is pricier there, so why would anyone visit them instead of us...

Thomas Davis4 said:Which factory are we even talking about here? How many people work there? What’s the pay scale, from the bottom to the top? And how exactly did you settle on $300 a month?

If you’re going to throw around numbers and data, at least try to back them up. Otherwise, you just look ridiculous. Based on your comments, the only industrial operation you’ve ever stepped foot in is the local bakery down the street.☕

Sadly, people like this end up in the White House too. If you want to talk about whether we need more engineers, go to the thread I mentioned regarding technical professions. Look, the topic here is HOW to lure Ford in. Amanda Diaz and everyone else, stick to the engineering thread if that's what you're worried about..........

Amanda Diaz said:I never actually claimed the pay would be that high. I was simply comparing it to what workers make in similar factories over in Mexico or Slovakia. If you honestly believe these corporations move their plants abroad out of the goodness of their hearts, that's your own problem.

Since you started this thread, stick to the topic. We're talking about how to lure Ford here. You're just spamming the board with stuff you heard from your great-aunt.

If you actually know about better wages in America, name the companies and the specific roles. Give me some actual numbers. That salary example you gave is for Ford Getrag in Slovakia—we're talking maybe $650 to $750 for a basic operator in Košice. Steel mills might pay more, and higher-level positions definitely pull more than that...
We can keep talking if you can actually tell me what "commissioning" is. Otherwise, you're just talking nonsense without knowing the trade.

Amanda Diaz said:I never actually claimed the pay would be that high. I was simply comparing it to what workers make in similar factories over in Mexico or Slovakia. If you honestly believe these corporations move their plants abroad out of the goodness of their hearts, that's your own problem.

$600 or $700 isn't even a real wage $1000. I mean, who makes more in America—machinists, cashiers, or school teachers?

And this number is spot on because, unlike you, I’ve actually been on the floor. Engineers and other pros make way more than that...

These companies haven't even arrived yet, but you "experts" act like you've already solved the puzzle.

Since you're such a genius, why don't you tell me what "commissioning" means in machine building? Go ahead.

The rates for machine building and plant work are global standards. We won't even touch low-end service jobs since that's a different league entirely. It’s definitely easier to pull an 8-hour shift at a Ford plant than it is to turn metal on a manual lathe without CNC control...

It would be pretty classy if you didn't comment on things you clearly don't understand.

The job here is about scaling up and filling the factory. There’s enough work to keep 500 to 1,000 people busy for years. But of course, regular folks like you don't know a thing about machine building—not that the owners of these firms know much either...

Taylor Vaughn8 said:Why is nobody saying anything about this thread?

Honestly, we should be jumping at this chance and bringing that massive global campaign right here to America. Where is the government when they’re actually needed? Instead of doing their jobs, they’re just caught up in endless political games. They really ought to be putting together a rock-solid offer and practically begging them to set up shop here.

Funny how the politics mods moved this from "general politics" to "near-politics," even though it's clearly a political topic.
And a damn political one at that!

The reason nobody's talking is because as soon as things get real, 99% of the people on this forum—just like the government—have no clue what to do. That’s the core issue in America. Out of 100 posters, you’ve maybe got two engineers and three guys with any actual technical background...

Gary Kelly87 said:First off, we should probably hire someone actually competent to put together a proposal and figure out if we even stand a chance. We need someone who understands the auto industry and knows exactly what Ford is looking for. That person is probably sitting in Germany right now, but it wouldn't hurt to reach out to DuPont or other parts manufacturers.

If the proposal ends up being drafted by some government agency or "experts" from various departments, then honestly, don't even bother wasting your time.

I’d give them everything they ask for, but on one condition: every American machine shop specializing in custom engineering gets the orders for the specific components Ford needs. I'd also bring in all the local PLC and CNC programmers for the commissioning phase. That way, you concentrate all that specialized knowledge in one spot, making it easier and faster to train future operators on modern tech. It would save the Germans a fortune on training costs, too...

Along with DuPont, we should pull in companies like SAS, HSTEC, ITAS, LTH, Prvomajska, and any other outfit still standing in this industry...

Personally, I’d hand them thousands of acres in the outskirts of a Midwestern town and simultaneously start building a power plant on some old clay site near a small town, then hand the job back to the Germans as a thank-you for investing here. Meanwhile, I'd tell all the laypeople that it's best to let the Germans run the plants because they actually follow the standards!

Then you get electricity and jobs, and maybe we could actually find a way to make those subsidies useful instead of just dumping money into concrete...

The government, local officials, and every single politician from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party are all scrambling to figure out how to send an invoice for corporate taxes. Meanwhile, opportunities like this just sail right past us...

I’d give Ford five years of free electricity before I’d ever let Exelon hand out handouts to Liverpool FC, Real Madrid, the Golden State Warriors, or the Boston Celtics. Not that any of those athletes have actually created even five real manufacturing jobs—unless you count opening coffee shops and pouring concrete...

Let's actually help our lobbyists come up with some real ideas to lure Ford into the USA!

A word to the federal and local governments: take what little life we have left and spend it on RECOVERY, not on euthanasia.!!!!!!

That bit about the guys across the border is pretty interesting... makes you wonder if what they're saying about Fiat is actually true.

Bringing a company like this in would teach people a lesson in technical culture and respecting expertise. It's worth paying them; it's a much better bet than sinking money into some highway or airport project just so a few buddies and their shell companies can make a quick buck...