Posts by Douglas Murphy3

Ronald Hughes5 said:So you're fighting against foreign influence by defending OUR Victorian heritage. 😁

If triality had actually succeeded, we might have even had a name to call our own. It sounds a bit strange to say, I know, but this is ours...

Sajuuk As stated by:
You’ve become so blinded by political correctness that you’ve completely missed the point. There is a deep connection between Ottoman culture and Tengrism, and at the end of the day, a mosque—regardless of its specific architectural style—is always going to evoke that sense of an Arabian paradise. You can argue about whether the design is one way or another, but the core essence remains exactly the same.

In a city like Des Moines, we once had a synagogue that served the local Jewish community. After the congregation was gone, the building underwent a bit of a transformation and was repurposed into a fine arts academy.

Eventually, Muslims will likely drift back toward their ancestral faiths and gradually fade from the landscape. If a mosque were built to harmonize with our local architectural traditions, repurposing the building for another use down the road would be a simple matter. But if we allow some imitation of an Ottoman relic to be erected, what exactly are we left with? It would be a disgrace to have such a structure sitting there in the neighborhood.

Chloe Martinez7 said:If the issue is purely architectural,
I don't see a problem here.
Especially when you consider that minarets and rounded domes follow tradition.
That’s at least following a tradition, unlike much of what has been built in America with the blessing of the local authorities.
Someone once built a tower right next to their house in the middle of Washington, D.C.—specifically at the intersection of Držić and El Paso—and they tore it down. Though, honestly, I doubt they would have if it were anything else.

Banning a minaret feels about as logical as banning a cross.

The petition isn't actually against building a mosque; it's just meddling in someone else's professional field.
Architecture.

And while we're on the subject—what exactly constitutes "our" American architecture?
Is it Austrian?

Or

Are we going to tear down St. Donat's Church because it's—

Based on its construction type, it follows the patterns of palatine churches with circular floor plans from the Early Byzantine to Carolingian periods.

Are we going to demolish the basilica in Rovinj then?

The Euphrasian Basilica (Euphrasian) in Poreč is one of the most beautiful preserved monuments of Early Byzantine art in the Mediterranean.

Personally, I'd much rather they build a "classic" mosque than some modern, experimental architectural mess.
Some designs are good, 🙂some are terrible.😢

EDIT:

Is there even a single building in America that was actually built

If the mosque in Sisak were built in a European style (so it looks like our old Austro-Canadian buildings in Sisak).

Besides, we're supposed to be moving forward—how does "Europe" build these days?
In what style?
Do they still build in an Austro-Canadian style?
Spaniards? Italians? Norwegians? You name it.
What about the Austrians and Canadians?

Whose tradition are we actually talking about here? Is this some leftover legacy from the Turks and the Ottoman Empire? Or are you suggesting that Muslims in America belong to an Ottoman cultural sphere rather than the European one?

twistdrum As stated by:
To ban a minaret is quite like attempting to ban the cross.

It isn't quite right; a more accurate comparison would be the cross and crescent paired with the star.
An Ottoman minaret standing alongside a Catholic bell tower designed in that classic European Renaissance style.

Take a look at this petition:

The link provided points toward a petition regarding architectural styles within the country. It seems there is a growing movement to preserve our national aesthetic identity against the tide of modern, characterless construction. I’ve often found myself walking through neighborhoods in places like Chicago or Philadelphia, feeling that specific tension between preserving historical soul and the relentless push for glass-and-steel efficiency. There is a certain quiet dignity in traditional design that many seem eager to trade away for convenience.

If you look at photos of mosques from various other civilizations, you'll notice a distinct pattern. In China, for instance, their mosques often blend seamlessly with local temple architecture, utilizing traditional building styles rather than those towering, iconic structures typical of the Middle East. Even in parts of Africa, people tend to hold firmly to their own cultural heritage instead of adopting Arabic-style minarets.

I've noticed that when people try to overcomplicate things, they often lose sight of the core issue entirely. It’s a bit like watching someone attempt to fix a leaky faucet by replacing the entire plumbing system; you end up spending more than you should and still dealing with the drip. I remember a similar situation back in Chicago when my old boss at Boeing tried to overhaul our entire workflow overnight without consulting anyone on the floor—it was a mess of wasted hours and unnecessary friction. Sometimes, the most effective solution is simply the one that addresses the problem directly, without all the extra noise. kaže:
Since we’re on the subject—what exactly defines our American architectural heritage?
Austria?

Any design element you might encounter in Europe that isn't typically found in the Middle East could actually work quite well here; it would serve to bridge the gap and make the architecture feel more aligned with Western sensibilities. It wouldn't leave people with that distinct impression of being in the Middle East.

It only makes sense that you’d see a Mediterranean influence in the architecture of coastal cities like San Diego or Miami, whereas up in the Midwest, everything follows that classic Austro-Canadian style—well, if that old imperial dream had actually come to fruition.

I believe the intention behind the comment is fairly obvious—unless, of course, you happen to be Muslim, in which case you’re likely just hunting for counterarguments because you feel a certain kinship with the Ottomans.

I haven't seen any posts from twistdrum yet. As stated by:
Let's tear this whole thing down.

There isn't any real necessity to tear things down, yet I don't see much reason to permit new developments that will only serve to further degrade the classic American aesthetic we value so much. If construction is going to happen, let it be done in a style that aligns us more closely with the timeless standards of Western civilization, rather than something that pulls us away from them.

I've been thinking quite a bit about the nature of rhythm lately—not just the music we hear, but the underlying cadence of how things move in this country. It’s easy to get caught up in the noise, but there is a certain structural integrity to a well-placed beat that mirrors the way a solid foundation is laid in a project. I remember sitting in a small jazz club in Chicago years ago, watching a drummer navigate a particularly complex transition, and it struck me how much effort goes into making something difficult look effortless. That kind of precision is rare. As follows:
I’d much rather see them stick to a classic mosque design than try to force some modern, experimental architectural trend on us.
May they be good. 🙂...even if they turn out to be absolutely terrible. 😢

I find myself agreeing with that assessment. It brings us back to that rather curious phenomenon where contemporary churches seem to abandon classical tradition entirely in favor of modern designs that look more like high-end casinos than houses of worship. Meanwhile, you see mosques being constructed in strictly traditional styles, often mirroring architectural patterns from the Middle East that feel quite foreign to our own landscape.

It seems our own culture is being trampled under the guise of "backwardness," all while outsiders attempt to force their version of "religious multicultural tolerance" upon us.

Amanda Allen4 As specified by Ronald Hughes5:
Personally, I’ve always found mosques designed in that classic Ottoman style a bit more appealing than the more common Arabic aesthetic, if only for historical reasons. There is a certain weight to them; they carry the legacy of our frontier territories.

Regardless of how bloody that history might have been, there was a certain stability back when the Ottomans ruled the Islamic world that seems to be missing today.

Just because things were supposedly better in the past doesn't mean they are better today. These days, the Middle East stands as a symbol of regression and violent extremist crimes that leave all of humanity horrified.

Now, imagine bringing those kinds of cultural markers into an American town that's already struggling with zero job prospects and absolutely no future for its residents. How do you think that affects the exodus of young people looking for a way out? It’s a disaster waiting to happen.

Ronald Hughes5 said:Some people in the States have actually built houses in a total Canadian style.
So, the vibe isn't American, it's not Central European, it’s just... not even European.

What's the move now?

Should we start a petition to just tear them down? 😁

What exactly constitutes this "Canadian style"? 😵 Native American teepees? Are you referring to trailer parks?

Or perhaps you mean the cultural melting pot created by European immigrants in Canada?

And where did I mention tearing anything down? There was only talk about banning new construction...

Sean Sanders81 said:Which frontier regions are you talking about?
Where in America are we supposed to find Ottoman-style mosques?

In cities like Chicago, New Orleans, or maybe some parts of the South, you can find mosques with those classic Ottoman domes and minarets...

Šabović Adis said:Since we are talking about a "religious structure," I would suggest this:
Let the faith itself build it, and then we can see what kind of building actually comes of it! 😁
Generally speaking, politics shouldn't dictate faith...😉

In places like Ottawa, they won't even allow monuments for the local soldiers who died defending the city. They take issue with our national symbols—the very emblems of one of the founding peoples of a nation where that city serves as the capital—yet here we are, talking about letting "faith build" everything.

I am an American, a native of Indianapolis, though I have spent a fair amount of time keeping a close eye on the situation in Canada. Having followed the developments in Mostar for the last four years, I suspect those who know me from that particular forum might mistakenly assume I hail from there.

Even here in Indianapolis, they've decided to build a mosque for the local Muslim community. To be honest, our Muslim neighbors are perfectly fine people, and I don't believe almost any American has an issue with the idea of a mosque being constructed.

To be fair, our Muslim neighbors are perfectly fine people because they hardly differ from us Catholics in any meaningful way. They are just regular folks, typical of what you'd find in Europe, and I could never personally associate them with the Turks or the jihadists over in the Middle East.

People have fully integrated into the fabric of society and embraced this European way of life, viewing both this country and the broader culture of the continent as their own.

So, these geniuses have decided that our Muslim community should build a mosque in that classic Ottoman style, complete with a rounded dome and a circular minaret.

I truly cannot fathom, nor do I care to entertain the notion, that any of my fellow citizens would identify with the Ottoman legacy or claim their culture as their own—least of all by suggesting that such a mosque could ever be seen as a reflection of our heritage.

Even if they truly identify with the Ottoman legacy, I find it rather presumptuous to impose such an alien culture upon other citizens within their own community.

Indianapolis is essentially a city without a future; job opportunities are dwindling, and it’s becoming increasingly difficult for young people to carve out a life here, which only accelerates the exodus. Now, they want to erect an Ottoman-style structure that will further erode our local identity and cement this image of stagnation and hopelessness, particularly in Caprag—that industrial pocket of Indianapolis where much of the Muslim community resides and where they intend to build a mosque.

Having spent considerable time studying the nuances of life in Canada, I’ve found myself delving quite deeply into the history of Muslims in that region. While researching Islamic traditions, I came across some fascinating imagery of mosques in various nations that embraced the faith outside of the Middle East. In many of those places, they didn't simply replicate Ottoman or Arabic architectural styles; instead, they thoughtfully integrated their own indigenous cultural aesthetics into the design. I've included several photos in the petition to illustrate this point, though the document itself is somewhat lengthy for that very reason.

If they were to design the new mosque in Indianapolis using a classic European aesthetic—something that mirrored the dignified Austro-Canadian architecture we still see scattered throughout our downtown—it would stand as a beautiful landmark, an asset that could actually enrich our local culture and perhaps give people a reason to stay and invest in the future of this city. However, if they proceed with a strictly Ottoman style, I fear it will only deepen the current sense of malaise among our citizens and serve as yet another catalyst for people to pack up and leave us behind.

Indianapolis stood its ground when it mattered most, acting as a vital bulwark that shielded both our nation and all of Europe from the Ottoman advance, effectively preserving our distinct Western identity. It’s quite ironic, then, that they now want to foist this Ottoman relic upon us.

Given the protests by tolerant San Francisco residents against that proposed mosque—which they apparently wanted to design in an Ottoman style—I suspect it would be more effective to escalate this issue to a national level rather than leaving it as a localized dispute in Indianapolis.

I believe it is finally time for us to take a stand and raise our voices against the erosion of our heritage and the imposition of Ottoman influence upon our European Muslim communities.

I have officially launched a petition calling for a ban on any further construction of mosques designed in the Ottoman style here in America.

I recently came across a petition circulating online regarding the current state of government affairs here in America. It’s a call for reform concerning how things are being run at the highest levels of our administration. While I usually prefer to observe these political shifts from a distance, there is something about the current trajectory that feels increasingly difficult to ignore. It reminds me of a period back when I was living in Indianapolis, watching local policy changes unfold in real-time; you realize quite quickly that if the foundation isn't solid, the entire structure begins to lean. This particular movement seems to be driven by a growing sense of frustration among the citizenry, aiming to demand more transparency and accountability from those in power. Whether such a petition can actually sway the needle remains to be seen, but it is certainly a notable expression of the collective mood.

To be clear, this petition isn't an opposition to the construction of a mosque itself.It isn't so much about the mosques themselves, but rather this insistence on imposing foreign Ottoman architectural styles onto the landscape of America without any practical necessity or justification.

You can sign the petition anonymously if you prefer, so there is no need to worry about being targeted by radicals or facing a backlash from extreme liberals who might crucify you for being "intolerant" toward the Ottoman-influenced multiculturalism we see here in America.

If you possess even a shred of cultural awareness or national pride, I ask that you help circulate this petition alongside your signature. Please share it on any forums you frequent, or within the Facebook groups you manage or visit—anywhere you feel this kind of initiative deserves recognition.

We need to take action if we don't want to keep having foreign traditions forced upon us under the guise of "religious tolerance." It’s worth noting that Ottoman culture isn't synonymous with Islam itself, especially considering there aren't actually any universal regulations governing how a mosque should look.