Posts by swifttrucker13

mistybison said:If Hitler's actions were predetermined, then our reaction to them is also predetermined. EVERYTHING is predetermined.

Determinism cannot be used as an excuse for anything. If everything is set in stone, then our sense of free will is also predetermined, along with our behavior according to it. Therefore, you will judge Hitler as evil and condemn his actions rather than justifying them by saying he was simply "born that way."

That is why I mentioned that believing or not believing in free will doesn't change daily life. Determinism might eventually help you accept yourself, others, and existence itself more easily, since everything is as it must be. However, in your everyday life, you will continue to act according to your nature—essentially acting as if you possess free will.🙂

Look, I’ve gone down that rabbit hole too, but if the feeling of having free will is itself predetermined, then maybe it was also destined for me to stumble onto determinism and lose that sense of agency entirely. These thoughts just loop in my head constantly... and honestly, the worst part is when I start overthinking the thoughts themselves. :/ Maybe we’ve drifted too far into the philosophy side of things, because my actual issue is more tied to the FBI and this whole depersonalization thing, which is why I started this thread in this PDF. Just trying to see if anyone else out there gets it, though clearly, I might be the only one losing sleep over this stuff. xD

The Mayor said:In Genesis, chapter three, specifically verse 17, God gives humans free will.

I’m not much of a believer, so that doesn't really hit home for me, but thanks anyway—I appreciate everyone chiming in. 🙂

darksurfer4 said:Everything is already set in stone; it’s all happened before, and it’s all going to happen again. Honestly, I just can't wrap my head around these people who champion the idea of free will—how on earth do they even visualize that working??? We are essentially pre-programmed from the jump by our genetics, then shaped by our upbringing, our environment, and so much more... I truly don't get where they see this "free will" coming from, or maybe there's just some fundamental truth that I'm missing entirely.....

I get what you're saying, but my problem is that I'm obsessively hyper-focused on determinism. It's like my emotions have lost all meaning and I just feel like some kind of biological robot... if that even makes sense?

Chris Perez said:Do philosophical questions cause you psychological distress?

Determinism only makes sense if you're playing a movie of your life in reverse.

Anyway, take a look at this:
Genesis, Chapter 3

(specifically: Genesis 3:17)

I’ve actually been dealing with these same symptoms for a while now—they only really spiraled once I started banging my head against these deep philosophical questions, specifically the whole free will debate. Because if you look at it through the lens of determinism, the entire concept of guilt just falls apart. I mean, why even hold Hitler responsible for the Holocaust when he didn't exactly get a choice in being a psychopath? He was basically just a victim of his own brain chemistry... those chemical reactions forced his hand into committing such atrocities. It’s not like he sat down and decided to be that kind of monster; he was just acting in accordance with his character and couldn't have done anything else. Honestly, you could apply that same logic to pretty much every emotion we feel, which is exactly why I feel almost nothing right now. What’s your take on that—specifically that Hitler example? Sorry for dumping this on you, my brain is just totally fried right now and I can barely think straight... I can't even begin to deal with this right now... just totally over it. Honestly, everything feels like it's hitting redline lately—just pure overdrive. It’s like you’re flooring it in a Ford F-150 through a desert storm and the engine is screaming at you to just stop, but you can't because if you do, everything just falls apart. Everything! I'm just spinning my wheels here... seriously... Look, I guess I should try to look at this whole mess from a different angle... if there even is one...

So, if I’m actually following what this guy is saying... this specific quote from the Bible is supposed to be some kind of smoking gun proof that free will doesn't even exist? At least, that's how I'm reading it—if my brain isn't totally fried today...

Wait, what even are we talking about here? Is this just random nonsense now? Because honestly, I feel like I’m losing my mind trying to follow these threads sometimes... just total chaos. Anyway, whatever. The user says:
How’ve you been sleeping lately? Like, can you actually drift off fast, or are you just tossing and turning all night? Honestly, seeing you run on fumes like this... it looks brutal, man. It’s gotta be totally draining you. Anyway, let me know how that appointment with the psychiatrist went—hope they actually gave you some real answers. Seriously though, try to get some sleep... you really need it... 🙂👋

I don't really have an issue getting to sleep, honestly—by the end of the day, my brain is just so absolutely fried from all the constant overthinking that I basically just crash... no problem at all.

Look, I’m just checking in—I only officially signed up for this near the end of the month, even though I actually put my order in like a whole month ago... xD

mistybison said:Your attempt to deduce whether free will exists through pure thought only leads to total mental exhaustion, because the mind simply circles itself without finding an answer. The solution to this issue is to STOP thinking about it. If you can, let go of that perceived control you think you have over yourself and see what happens. Nothing will happen. 😁 Everything will remain exactly as it was. 🙂

Perhaps this will show you that it truly doesn't matter whether you believe in free will or not, and that—even if free will doesn't exist—it doesn't mean everything inside and around you will fall apart. 🙂 It is entirely possible that your sense of security will return once you realize that—regardless of your stance on free will—everything continues to function normally. 🙂

So the conclusion is that my brain isn't functioning optimally. 😁

I am not sure 😁

You mentioned yourself that you struggle with obsessive thoughts, so this might just be an idea currently occupying your mind rather than something you are truly interested in. If you were to seek help, your interest in this problem might vanish entirely. 🙂

I guess my problem is that I just can't stop obsessing over it—I need answers, period. Right now, the depersonalization is hitting me the hardest because I feel like a complete stranger to myself, and these questions are just making everything ten times worse. Along with the free will stuff, I've got all these other questions looping in my head like "Who am I?" and "Why do I even have these thoughts?" and stuff like that. I finally made an appointment with a psychiatrist so we'll see what they say, but honestly, I don't even know how to begin explaining the absolute chaos happening inside my head right now. xd

Chris Perez said:Free will doesn't exist. It's just an optional absurdity.

But at the same time, I don't want to accept that.

I am constantly Googling to find some kind of answer. Proof. People argue for free will. Why would humanity debate this for centuries if the lack of it wasn't obvious?

I don't even know anymore. I think. Regarding all of that.

Proof is a mathematical concept because mathematics is an exact science.
Try searching Google from that perspective.

Descartes: "I think, therefore I am."

I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed right now. I am afraid. I’m about to lose my mind. :/
I am afraid. I won't be able to look at the world the same way again.

Do you get the keyword?

I’ve lost my motivation. I don't enjoy things like I used to.

You need a serious wake-up call if you ever want to get your head straight and actually find some work.
To stay ahead of any trolls, NHF.

Your statement falls squarely into nihilism. You just need to balance it out with some hedonism.
Look up basic human needs. Then, consider the extreme examples.

ps
I neatly dissected and sorted through your post. 🙂

I don't think philosophy is really my thing, and honestly, I don't get half of it—especially when science starts getting dragged into philosophical debates. If I can ask, what's your take on free will? I'm guessing you're a determinist?

I've got a job and I'm working way too much, but I just have zero motivation, and it's so hard to just live in the moment with all these questions constantly looping in my head...

I can't believe I even have to say this out loud—it’s like everyone just stopped thinking, you know? Like, we're all just drifting through life without a single thought behind our eyes... it's exhausting. I was reading about the whole concept of depersonalization the other day—which, by the way, is a terrifying rabbit hole once you start digging—and it just hit me how much of our modern existence feels like that. Just... disconnected. Everything is so fast, so hollow... it’s like we’re all just ghosts in a machine that doesn't even care if we're functioning or not. And don't even get me started on the origin of all this madness! It didn't just happen overnight, but man, it feels like it did. We’ve traded actual substance for this weird, shallow imitation of reality... and honestly? It makes me want to scream sometimes. Just... ugh. kaže:
So what? 🙂

Honestly, I’m struggling to wrap my head around this... and I’m terrified that once I swallow it, I’ll never be able to look at the world the same way again. My motivation? Completely shot. I just don't find joy in the things I used to love anymore—everything feels kind of hollow now. Man, I wish I could just shrug my shoulders and accept the nonexistence of free will as easily as you do. xD

But at the same time, I just can't bring myself to accept it—I mean, I’m constantly stuck in a loop of Googling, desperately hunting for some shred of proof that free will actually exists. Because honestly, if it’s all such a lie and we really don't have any control, then why on earth have people been duking it out over this for centuries? If it were that obvious, the debate would be dead and buried by now! I don't even know what to think anymore... my head is spinning, I'm just totally lost in it all, and frankly, I'm terrified I might actually lose my mind over this... :/

mistybison I can't even begin to explain this... honestly, I'm just sitting here staring at my screen wondering how we even got to this point. It’s like—well, you know that feeling when everything just feels slightly off? Like a glitch in the matrix? Anyway, what Chris Perez was saying earlier—and I don't mean to get bogged down in his specifics because he's always going off on those long-winded tangents—but he hit on something really irritating about how much depersonalization we deal with every single day now. It’s everywhere! You turn on the news, you look at your phone, you walk down the street in Chicago or wherever... it's all just noise. And don't even get me started on the whole origin of this mess. It didn't just happen overnight, it's been building up for years, like a slow leak in a basement that eventually floods your entire life while you're busy watching Netflix or whatever... it's exhausting, truly. Just... ugh.
We’ve all been conditioned to look at the body and the mind like they’re two totally different things—like they exist in separate zip codes or something. It’s easy enough to wrap our heads around the fact that our bodies just... do their thing automatically. You don't sit there consciously deciding when to beat your heart or how to digest your lunch, right? It just happens. But man, it is so incredibly hard to swallow the idea that our actual thoughts are being cooked up by our brains—that they are fundamentally physical processes. We aren't even in the driver's seat half the time when it comes to how a thought actually forms... it's wild. Honestly, just sitting here thinking about it makes me feel a little helpless, if I'm being real. Because, look—when everything is running smoothly and the brain is firing on all cylinders, we get this massive illusion of control. We tell ourselves we’re picking what to think about and how to feel, and that sense of mastery makes us feel so much safer in our own skin... even if it's mostly just a trick of the light. 🙂

So, basically, I've come to the conclusion that my brain just isn't firing on all cylinders... like, at all. It’s just not operating at peak performance anymore—total system failure, honestly. 😁

mistybison said:Perhaps you could seek some help or look into different medications?

I've even read on some forums that pride and guilt are meaningless if you believe in determinism, which makes me wonder: what feeling actually matters?

Every feeling matters. 🙂

Your belief or disbelief in free will doesn't change reality. You will continue to act as if you have free will, regardless of whether it exists. A logical "realization" regarding the absence of free will is practically useless in everyday life. It simply becomes an unnecessary burden that makes everything feel pointless.

I’m not on any meds right now, but I did book an appointment with a psychiatrist, so we'll see what they have to say.

It feels like my entire perception of reality has shifted—because, let's face it, thoughts are basically just chemical reactions firing away in the brain, and I have zero control over them. It makes me feel like some kind of biological robot... it’s actually pretty terrifying to think about how thoughts are formed and how they work—which is exactly what dragged me into this depersonalization thing.

Chris Perez said:OP,
Lately, my life philosophy has shifted toward nihilism.
I suggest you look into it.
Whether you accept it or not is up to you.
I sleep much better now that I don't have a single care or thought left.
Why?
Do you ask why not just death instead?
- Because even death is meaningless.

I actually stumbled into nihilism while I was digging into the free will stuff, so I know a bit about it. But I’ve been thinking along those lines for a while now, so the idea that life lacks inherent meaning doesn't really rattle me that much. What *does* mess with my head is the fact that all my decisions are just the byproduct of chemical reactions in my brain that I can't influence... but hey, I guess I'll try to look on the bright side, whatever that means. xD

Mark Baker17 said:The answer exists, but physics mostly points toward total determinism, since the fundamental
equation (Schrödinger's) is purely deterministic, although
superdeterminism remains a massive question mark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdeterminism

So, I guess your question—and your crisis over finding the "ultimate truth"—was likely predetermined from the start. Just like my response was... 🙂

When you say it's "probably predetermined," does that mean there's actually a chance it isn't? Look, don't kill me, I'm no physics expert—I'm just trying to find some shred of proof that free will actually exists! xD

Morgan Chase5 said:Regardless of one's personal philosophy regarding the nature of existence, the fundamental requirements remain constant: we need sleep, sustenance, purposeful action, human connection, physical movement, the act of creation, spontaneous encounters, confrontation, and the weight of choice...
And there is certainly much more to the list.
It seems to me that those grand "universal laws" we attempt to grasp through abstract theorizing remain perpetually out of reach. Even though I frequently find myself lost in similar contemplations, I always eventually find myself retreating back to the "foundation"—to the realm of concrete, tangible action.

I totally get that, except for me, it’s turned into a full-blown obsession because of PTSD, and I’m genuinely worried I won't be able to snap back to "normal." If you don't mind me asking, what's your take on the whole free will thing?

mistybison said:If free will doesn't exist, then nothing truly possesses it—everything simply exists as part of a larger sequence. By that logic, everything should feel automated, but does the world actually look that way to you? 🙂 Even if a tree's movement in the wind is predetermined by physics, does that diminish its beauty? 🙂

Even if you intellectually conclude there is no free will, your mind will likely continue to operate as if it does, meaning your daily reality wouldn't actually change. 🙂 You will still feel as though you are making choices, such as deciding whether or not to post on this forum. Even if you were constantly aware that these actions weren't entirely up to you—which usually only happens during rare altered states of consciousness—that experience might not even be negative. In fact, it could be quite liberating. 🙂

I am not sure if this perspective offers much comfort... 🤷

I mean, sure, we don't *act* like robots, but that’s exactly how it plays out when you look at it through the lens of determinism. Honestly, everything just feels... colorless now. I'm seeing the world through a totally different filter and it's stripped away all that beauty—though, God, I really hope it doesn't stay this way forever. I've even scrolled through some forums where people argue that pride and guilt are completely meaningless under determinism, which just leaves me wondering... what kind of feeling actually matters anymore? If nothing counts, then what does? I feel like I'm literally losing my mind over this, if I haven't already..

Fair warning: this might trigger an existential crisis for some of you!

Hey everyone... I wanted to lay out my situation pretty quickly, and if anyone out there thinks they can offer some advice on how to snap me out of this current headspace, I’d really appreciate it. 🙂

So, here’s the deal—I’ve been dealing with OCD for as long as I can remember. I’ve cycled through basically every obsession and fear in the book, but this one feels... different. It feels worse. These days, it isn't even about the physical compulsions—like, I'm not necessarily tapping things or checking locks a dozen times—it's more like these constant mental rituals (pure O style). My brain is currently stuck on determinism and the whole "free will" debate. From what I've read online, most people seem to agree that free will is a myth, though there are always those outliers who argue otherwise. Personally? I think we probably don't have it, but there's still this tiny, nagging chance that we do. And that's the thing... it's all I've thought about for the last few weeks, and honestly, I'm terrified I'm going to lose my mind if I don't stop. I know, I know—I should just let it go because philosophers have been banging their heads against this wall for centuries without a real answer. But it feels so incredibly vital, like I *need* to solve this puzzle to move on. To make matters worse, I'm also struggling with depersonalization and derealization right now. I'm scared that I won't be able to look at the world or the people around me the same way anymore... like I'll just see them as these biological robots with zero agency. The determinists just have such much stronger arguments than the free will crowd, you know? So, yeah... if anyone has any tips on how to escape these existential loops, or if anyone else has been down this rabbit hole before? Thanks in advance.. 🙂