Posts by Zachary Cox69

wearyowl29 said:Look, I'm not talking down to you, but seriously, take a page out of my book... if you've got nobody else to learn from.

It isn't about being "merciful." It's about realizing when a mistake was made.
Self-regulation is way more beneficial than any punishment could ever be. It’s all about that internal realization that your behavior was off.

That's how you see it, right? That once you pass away, you'll just be floating around listening to Jesus's playlist and angels singing forever.
But let me tell you, the very first thing that happens is you get brought back down to earth to learn some discipline...
because life isn't some one-time trip to a music festival; it's a bloody, difficult school meant to prepare you for eternity.

Anyone who truly understands they messed up doesn't need an extra slap on the wrist.
It's like a kid crying, "Mom, please forgive me for failing my classes, I promise it won't happen again!" And you respond, "Okay, I forgive you, I see you're sorry, but I'm still going to give you a good whipping."
That's a pretty strange way to treat someone you actually love.

What kind of music are we even talking about here? We don't really know what it'll be like when we meet God—the Bible doesn't go into much detail on that. I just trust that a good God will make sure everything is alright.

wearyowl29 said:Wow... you were all believing that right up until the Second Council in Constantinople back in 553.
Then, suddenly, everyone changed their minds...

So, if a Christian dies and makes it to Heaven—provided they had a last-second conversion—they just spend eternity playing the harp and staring at Jesus while He leads the angelic choir. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?

Maybe spend a little more time practicing your musical notes and a little less time studying the Bible.

And what’s so weird about that?
If someone you actually love asks for forgiveness—and I mean real, heartfelt forgiveness—you'll forgive them, sure. But you're also going to tell them they need to kneel on corn kernels for 100 days, fast for 40, whip themselves, and eat nothing but vegetables for two years or something.
If your kid begs for forgiveness for something, you're going to make them suffer through penance for years before they finally earn that mercy. Honestly, this version of "mercy" you're preaching makes me sick.

lonestag15 said:I'm curious though—once the soul leaves the body, does it hang out in that original state for a while before it reincarnates again?

And is it actually possible to reach some kind of peak level of soulful development where reincarnation just stops happening?

There’s no such thing as reincarnation. You’re a human once, and that’s it. Those who accepted Christ as their Savior go straight to God. Everyone else—if they heard that Jesus wanted to save them and turned Him down during their lifetime—goes straight to Hell. As for those who never even heard a word about Jesus Savior, they enter a sort of waiting state. There, Jesus reveals Himself to them just like He does to us here. They get the same choice to accept or reject Him—just like we do while we're alive hearing about the Messiah. Maybe there isn't much theological backing for that, but it's just how I see it.

lonestag15 said:So, I went straight to the source and asked Zachary Cox69...

If a person can't be "saved" without acknowledging Jesus—if it's all about faith rather than actually doing good things—then what happens to the people who have never even heard of this Jesus figure but live perfectly decent lives?

I'm curious to see where he stands on that...

Just caught this.
My starting point is that God is just—He isn't going to condemn anyone innocent.
There’s an interesting part in the Gospel where it mentions that after Jesus died, He went to preach to those living in darkness (ignorance) before He came as the Savior. So, the deceased are somewhere waiting, and He went to them. Basically, everyone gets a shot.
You can't really blame someone for rejecting someone they never even knew existed.
There’s also stuff in the New Testament about how "Gentiles" might be judged or saved based on moral standards. Essentially, the immoral go to Hell, while the moral don't. I think Paul wrote something along those lines.
Personally, I lean toward that first idea. Everyone will eventually hear about Jesus Savior—whether it's during their life or after. Death isn't the end of the road. God plays fair.
I've seen plenty of testimonies from Jews and Muslims about Jesus appearing to them in dreams and saying, "I am your Savior." It's a lot like what happened to Paul on the road to Damascus. Suddenly, they become Christians. I believe in a just God.

David Vaughn75 said:And honestly? That’s the biggest flaw in the whole Christian religion, if you ask me.

If wonderful Buddhists, Muslims, or Hindus are all headed for the scrap heap just because they aren't Christians, then it means God cares way more about the packaging than what's actually inside the box.
It makes it feel like your actions don't matter at all—like you could be out there saving lives, but it won't count unless someone splashes some holy water on your head.

Talk about oversimplifying things. What a joke.

David Vaughn75 said:Righteous.

God doesn't send anyone to hell. That's our call. If that's how we choose to live, there isn't a God in the universe who can swoop in and save us. And honestly, escaping hell is easy. Nobody actually earns their way into heaven; we get in purely through God's grace. Heaven equals eternal life.
Easy? Man, being saved from hell is easy—you just offer up some sincere repentance for your sins and boom, you're set.
Let me break it down for you—suppose you live a decent, moral life. You're a solid father, you teach your kid the right way to live, you warn them that drugs are garbage and they should stay far away from that stuff. Then the kid ignores everything, starts using in secret, and dies young. Are you the one at fault for turning their life into a living hell? You can't save someone who has zero interest in being saved.

So, what are you getting at? That God isn't all-powerful because He can't stop someone from heading straight to hell?

I mean, I have never met a single person who actually *wants* to choose hell for themselves—have you?

Well, you'll surely end up there if you're following someone who isn't God. How is He supposed to step in and stop that?
And I'm sure you've met plenty of addicts out there. Why did they start down that dark path? Because they listened to someone telling them what was coming.

If I’m getting banned from the same account, why is the ban permanent?

Anthony Perez9 said:Honestly, we all evolved from animals. It’s just us, our distant ancestors... like, my great-great-great-grandma was probably a fish or something. ☕

God doesn't send anyone to hell. That's entirely on us.

Once again, you’re painting God like he's some almighty Hitler or a total idiot. He created beings who will spend the other half of eternity listening to the horrific screams of skin sizzling in hell, while his holy fig trees sing psalms in paradise to praise Lord Hallelujah. It's just like all those buddies from the New Testament—the eternal virgin, Jesus Nicodemus, various Catholic saints, the apostles, Joseph, who clearly wasn't that devoted to his wife, and all the rest of the characters from that brutal Greek fairy tale.

If we've already decided to live this way, there isn't a God out there who can save us. Getting saved from hell is actually the easy part.

Just typical inquisitor nonsense. "It’s easy enough to dodge the stake—just kiss a cross and call it a day," they say. Typical.

Nobody actually earns their way into heaven. It’s all about God's grace if we're ever going to make it to eternal life.

So basically, being a decent human being doesn't matter at all. It’s not about your actions or helping people; it’s just about picking a side in some Christian political party and checking the box that says you "accept Christ."

Easy? Honestly, just repent for your sins and you're saved from hell. Simple as that.

Even if you get caught in the crossfire, getting out easy enough.
Either you get on board with Muhammad, or you're going to lose your head.
Easy enough.

It’s just as easy to walk away from Jesus-God when he starts throwing around ultimatums like that.

Look, let me make this simple. You live a decent life, you stay moral, you’re a good dad, and you teach your kid to do the same. You hammer home that drugs are poison and tell them to stay far away from that life. Then they ignore everything, go out and get hooked, and die young. Are you really the one to blame for them turning their own life into a living hell?

At the end of the day, you're the only one responsible for your own life.
Are you really planning to slow-cook Hitler over a low flame for thousands of years? Honestly, even he didn't deserve that kind of sadism.

You can't save someone who isn't looking to be saved.

Is a sadistic God crazy for predicting that most of His creations would choose to throw themselves into an eternal lake of fire just because they felt like it? It’s like He created this whole God-Jesus madman persona just to enjoy watching people suffer in hellfire, claiming, "well, they asked for it." 😵 🤦

Being part of these hellish religions is going to become a massive embarrassment, no matter how much those religious fanatics brag about their own brutality and sadism.

It's honestly pathetic that we let our kids get indoctrinated by this hellish Jesus Christ invented by some Greeks.

There was this guy on another forum who thought he had power, like control over lightning or something. We used to call him "Thunderbolt" just to mock him. A total nutcase.
After a few exchanges, realizing he was completely unhinged, I stopped responding. But he kept messaging me. For years. Like a tick, just latched onto me. Pathetic pleas like, "Please, I'm not reading you, please."
It was useless. You're just like him—I'm not reading you, you're not interesting, yet you keep pushing. Seriously, stop. There are other people on this forum; go chat with them, you're boring me. I'm not reading you—just get lost. If you have any integrity left (though I doubt it), you'll do it.

bluemason3 said:Naturally, having no brain at all seems to be a prerequisite here.😁

Look, people with heads like yours tend to lose their way sometimes—even when they think they’re being logical. I have respect for what you know—you've got a lot of expertise under your belt in plenty of different areas—but you can't just intellectualize the truth about God. If that were possible, every "expert" out there would be either a believer or an atheist. And we both know that isn't how it works. Sounds familiar, right? "I know that I know nothing."
Look, take some advice from an amateur like me—what if you just sent God a text? Something like, "If You’re actually out there, help me figure out what the truth about You really is."
If you’re being honest, you might just watch that whole house of cards come crashing down—and I know you wouldn't want to take that risk.

David Vaughn75 said:What kind of God sends His own kids down to eternal hell?

Seriously, would you ever send your own children to hell?

And what kind of god turns you into a rat, a snake, a monkey, or an elephant through reincarnation?

God doesn't send anyone to hell—it’s our choice. If we decide that's how we want to live, there isn't a God in the world who can step in and save us. Besides, escaping hell is actually pretty simple. Nobody earns their way into heaven; we get in solely through God's grace. Heaven = eternal life.
Simple? Well, being saved from hell is easy—just have some sincere repentance for your sins and you're set.
Let me put it this way: you live a decent, moral life, you're a good father, and you teach your kid to do the same—telling them drugs are a dead end and they should stay far away from them. Then, the kid ignores you, starts using in secret, and dies young. Are you the one to blame for them turning their life into a living hell? You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

electrocon

Yahweh in the Old Testament...

The first God to reveal Himself used the phrase "I am"—it was that specific name... essentially representing pure existence.
Eheye asher eheye (derived from "to be," meaning "I will be"... I'm not sure how else to explain that concept). Yahweh is basically a derivative of that idea.

So, what happened when that prayer was answered?

JHVH means "I am" or "I am who I am."
What actually happened was that I received the Holy Spirit. We call that being born again.
Check out John chapter 3—that's where Jesus Nicodemus explains what needs to happen to be saved. "You must be born again, of the Spirit."
Most Catholics believe we receive the Holy Spirit at baptism. I don't buy that. I'm Charismatic, and I didn't receive the Spirit back then. Instead, there was this supernatural encounter with God on an internal level—even if there were some "external effects" too. It changed my whole way of living and thinking. Think about how the Apostle Paul experienced it—that encounter with Christ was a total 180 for his life.
Certain Protestants really lean into this idea of being born again—people like Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, and Catholic Charismatics.

wearyowl29 said:Nope.

It honestly baffles me that some people actually own these things—and they're even sending out missionaries using the wrong PDF!

We’re all out here spreading our own versions of the truth—you, atheists, everyone. If we’re writing about what we believe in, isn't that basically missionary work? As for why I'm posting in the wrong spot—well, because the mods on that forum aren't Christians, and they didn't like me defending the Christian faith. They banned me just for being a missionary for my beliefs, even if it wasn't strictly religious. It sounds strange, but it's the truth. Meanwhile, anyone who aggressively attacks our Christian beliefs is more than welcome there. It’s a total paradox—especially in a country like America where 80% of us are Christian, whether we're devout or just go through the motions.

wearyowl29 said:Well, in my case, they baptized me and didn't ask me a single question!

It's actually pretty tough to "un-baptize" yourself because the organization doesn't want to rock the boat. They love keeping those numbers high for their statistics, even though in reality, they're smaller than they look since for most people, it's just cultural folklore and tradition rather than an actual way of life.

There wasn't anything inherently bad about them baptizing you—but nothing particularly great either. I was baptized as a kid, too, then became an atheist by the time I hit my teens. Later, when I truly found my faith in my 20s, I was baptized again because that was my choice. If we follow Jesus, we follow His word: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved."
For some, this isn't just folklore—it's everything. People think the ritual is the end of it. But really, once you're baptized, the real work starts with growing in your faith. Faith grows through knowledge and understanding. It’s vital to study the Bible closely and spend time in prayer.
So, let me ask you—if you somehow realized that what you believe right now is wrong, and that the God Christians believe in is the one true God, would you actually leave Hinduism behind? Would you become a Christian, even knowing that many Christians don't actually live out their faith authentically?

Quincy:

elektrokon

Quincy:

Look, going back to what I was saying—are we saying a person is justified before God (the Father) by their actions rather than just sucking up and saying "Lord, Lord"?

We’re definitely on the same page there. If someone keeps chanting "Lord, Lord" but they're actually a bad person doing evil things, that "Lord" talk doesn't mean a thing. Personally, I’d say it takes both good works and calling on the "Lord" to save a person. As James the Apostle put it in his letter, "Faith without works is dead."

Quincy:

Does that mean faith in Him isn't the main point, and a moral life is the primary criteria instead?

No—Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Quincy:

From your perspective, can an atheist make it into the kingdom of heaven?

They can't. Even though some Popes have suggested otherwise (since they've said it).
Back to James again:
"Otherwise, someone might say, 'You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works.'
James 2:19: You believe that there is one God? Good! Even the demons believe—and shudder.
James 2:20: Do you want to know, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless?"
So, it’s not just faith alone, nor is it just works alone. Protestants sort of muddied the waters there. Their founding motto was "Sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura."
I think Martin Luther even wanted to pull James's letter out of the New Testament because James places such a heavy emphasis on works. Works *have* to be the result of faith.
Quincy:

I need you to answer all three questions. Don't just quote stuff—I've already read all that.

Well, I have to quote—I guess I’m a "sola scriptura" kind of believer, haha. As Christians, we should think according to God, not our own whims. What God communicated through His prophets and apostles is what matters. That said, "sola gratia" is also right, because we are saved by God's grace; you can't earn salvation through works.

wearyowl29

What about those who just see his existence as a way to serve their own interests?

There are definitely people like that—especially lately among some Protestant pastors, specifically those TV evangelists. They’ve never truly experienced God from within, and they never will. For them, Jesus said: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the fiery furnace prepared for the devil and his angels."

You make a good point—we believe, but that freedom of choice feels pretty narrow. It’s like the kids being baptized, where they're basically forced into these family ties with various gods.

The early Christians didn't baptize infants—in fact, most Protestants don't even practice baptism today. Even Catholics and Orthodox Christians who do perform it emphasize that it isn't about salvation itself, but rather raising children in the faith and teaching them about God. Unfortunately, most people miss that part. Take the Baptists, for example—they bring a child in, the pastor holds them, and the whole church offers a blessing. But the actual baptism happens when they grow up, and only if they want it for themselves.

Mark 16:15-20
The Word of the Lord

At that time, Jesus appeared to the eleven and said: "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.""

See, first there has to be belief (if they choose to), and then comes the baptism.
And at the end of the day, it doesn't say those who aren't baptized will be judged—it says those who don't believe that Jesus is Jesus Messiah will be.
Do you see yourself in that?

lonestag15

If a person lives morally, it shouldn't matter whether they believe in God or not... if God exists, He’d surely prefer a moral atheist over an immoral "believer." But then again, if a believer sticks to science, they'll likely be plenty moral.

It matters quite a bit. First off, God loves everyone—He doesn't just split people into believers and non-believers.
Of course, He's pleased when we believe, show respect, love Him, and express gratitude for creating us and saving us. Sin is the reason we can't reach God. And there isn't a single person out there, no matter how moral they are, who hasn't committed some kind of sin. So, someone who believes asks for forgiveness and receives it (if they're sincere) because Christ took our sins upon Himself.
There's this story in the New Testament
where someone approaches Him and says: “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And He responds: “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good! But if you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” The man asks: “Which ones?” And Jesus says: Do not murder! Do not commit adultery! Do not steal! Do not bear false witness! Honor your father and mother! And love your neighbor as yourself!” The young man replies: “I have kept all these. What do I still lack?” Jesus tells him: If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come and follow me. At those words, the young man went away sad because he had great wealth. And Jesus said to His disciples: “Truly, I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter God's Kingdom.”

So, he was moral, and he was a believer, but God wasn't his first priority.

There is no such thing as a right or wrong God... if one exists, then all beliefs are just attempts to interpret the very same thing.
Thinking there's a "right" or "wrong" God just creates conflict.

There are plenty of "gods" when you look at what people believe in. But there is only one true God, the creator of the world and of us. Yahweh is the one; everything else is just a substitute. Anyone who reads the New Testament carefully will see that's the case.

Personally, I find God unfathomable, and I don't think we should have any idols representing Him (which is a commandment, anyway)... but to worship Him, to me, means respecting His existence. The relationship between a person and that unfathomable God can simply be gratitude for my own existence.

Through that gratitude, humility comes...

And as for pleasing God—well, you can only please something that has human-like characteristics that desire to be pleased... but hey, if that's how you view God, then He surely prioritizes morality and ethics above all else.

Absolutely. If anything upsets God, it's immorality. Especially immoral believers.
That's actually why I walked away from God at one point. For me, the church "helped" convince me that God didn't exist, even though that isn't its mission.
But later, after visiting plenty of good churches—both Catholic and Protestant—I realized it's not all flowers or all trash.

Funny enough, my first words ever directed toward god (I intentionally wrote "god" in lowercase because I thought He didn't exist, but still...) were: "If You exist, give me some proof, some sign, and then I'll believe in You." I've been a believer since then.

lonestag15 said:My local pastor is such a nationalist—he spends more time rambling about politics than actually preaching—so I stopped going. I used to drive halfway across town just to hear this one older priest, though. He was such an inspiring speaker that the commute was totally worth it for his sermons.

So, we've got the church as a building and the Church as a community, yet somehow it seems like neither really matters...

What he said regarding meditation basically completely stripped away any need for a priest to act as a middleman. That's actually what I like about the whole statement. You believe in Bog—you don't need a lawyer to talk to Him.

When I was younger, my priest was really strict, and like I mentioned regarding another topic, the congregation had pretty lukewarm faith—honestly, there wasn't much difference between the believers and the non-believers when it came to morals. Add in the secular education from school, and I ended up walking away from God entirely. Later on, I found my way back—just like this—by offering up one sincere prayer, and He revealed Himself to me.
Now I still go to church, but since I'm not living in a small town anymore, I get to choose where I go. I pick based on what the priest preaches and how he actually lives his life. A good priest equals a good church.

lonestag15 said:Heaven sounds pretty sweet
But hell's got all the best people 😉

...nah, let's just all grab our exit tickets haha—we'll probably end up in the same spot anyway...

There are plenty of people who belong inside but find themselves on the outside—and just as many sitting on the inside looking out. The Catholic theologian and priest Hans Küng once said—
By the way, I’d highly recommend everyone check out his book, "the existence of God."
When I first started turning my back on atheism and moving toward God—it honestly made a world of difference for me personally.

When we talk about being "inside and out," we're really talking about the distinction between the Catholic Church and the Kingdom of God—basically, heaven.

Let me add this from Jesus:

When the Son of Man arrives in all His glory—with all His angels by His side—He’ll take His seat on that glorious throne.
Matthew 25:32—all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He’ll separate them from one another just like a shepherd separating the sheep from the goats.
Matthew 25:33 — He’s going to set the sheep to his right and the goats to his left.
Matthew 25:34 — "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you are blessed of my Father. Inherit the Kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.'"
Matthew 25:35—"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink; I was a stranger and you invited me in."
Matthew 25:36 — "I was naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you visited me; I was in prison and you came to me."

Then He’ll turn to those on His left and say...Get away from me, you cursed souls—go straight into the eternal fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
Matthew 25:42 — "For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink;"
"I was a stranger and you didn't welcome me; I was naked and you didn't clothe me; I was sick and in prison and you didn't visit me!" — Matthew 25:43
Matthew 25:44 — "Then they will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or ill, or in prison, and did not help you?'"
Matthew 25:45 — Then He will answer them: "Truly, I tell you, whatever you failed to do for one of these least ones, you failed to do for Me."
Matthew 25:46 — "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

And also...
Matthew 7:21-29 — It’s a heavy passage. It basically boils down to the idea that just saying you follow Jesus isn't enough—it's about actually doing what He taught. It’s like the difference between someone who talks a big game about being a builder and the guy who actually shows up with a hammer and follows the blueprints. Jesus makes this distinction between those who call Him "Lord" but don't actually live out His words, versus those who build their lives on a solid foundation. If you build on sand, everything falls apart when the storm hits. But if you build on the rock—if you actually put the teaching into practice—you’re set, no matter how bad the weather gets. It’s all about the foundation. Real faith isn't just talk; it's the work you do when nobody's watching.
The Word of the Lord.

Jesus kept teaching: "Not everyone who walks around calling out, "Lord, Lord!" is actually going to make it into the Kingdom."But not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven—only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, a lot of people are going to come up to me and say, 'Look, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name? Didn't we cast out devils and perform all these miracles through you?' And then I'll have to tell them, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you evildoers!'"

It looks like we can conclude that there are plenty of people sitting in church pews who will never actually make it to God.

Thomas Nelson25 said:If you aren't part of the community... you're headed straight to hell.
Sadly, 😢

That's just not right. If you haven't made things right with God, then you're headed to hell.
"There are many inside who are actually outside, and plenty of those outside who are truly inside"—that's what the Catholic theologian and priest Hans Küng once said.
By the way, I'd highly recommend his book "The existence of God" to anyone interested.
When I was personally moving away from atheism and turning back toward God, it really helped me out.

This whole "inside and outside" thing refers to the Catholic Church and the Kingdom of God—basically, heaven.

lonestag15 said:I get what you're getting at regarding free will—it’s basically that whole moral pillar of Catholicism they drill into you either at home or in Sunday school... but... if you look at the Bible, every single non-believer gets condemned. So, God gives you the freedom to choose, sure, but then He punishes you for making the wrong call...

It’s like they’re hunting for proof of God—but they're only looking through one tiny little lens, totally ignoring every other angle...

The concept of God is way beyond anything we can actually wrap our heads around—so honestly, respecting God is really just about respecting existence itself...

Exactly. If you didn't accept Him, you rejected Him. If He's the only way to salvation, then those who turn away are responsible for their own fate.

Every person should put in the work to figure out if God actually exists or not.
Once you settle that, the next step is figuring out which God is the real deal—there are way too many fakes out there. Third, once you recognize God and know who He truly is, you have to ask what that means for you personally—basically, how can I live a life that honors Him?