Posts by Mark Ortiz5

David Barrett85 said:So, let me get this straight $77 we’re supposed to spread those extra costs over the next twelve months, rather than just working an extra shift this year to pay off the current policy, canceling it on schedule, and locking in a better rate with MetLife?

To top it all off, he goes through the trouble of opening a dedicated thread just for this. If he had been halfway decent during the initial negotiation, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It's such petty, small-minded business.😵

Supplemental health insurance policies don't actually have an expiration date; they're signed for an indefinite period, with the premium fixed for just one coverage year. The reason lawmakers set it up this way is supposedly to prevent people from forgetting to renew their coverage, which would otherwise leave them footing massive medical bills out of pocket.

What you’re actually doing here is much more significant than just posting. You are facilitating a critical transfer of intelligence for those who haven't yet found themselves in the crosshairs of Chevron, and for everyone else who might stumble upon this space looking for a bit of guidance or a second opinion.
That’s essentially the situation.
I’ll be handling the fallout from my own experience entirely on my own, though I certainly appreciate the advice that’s been shared here.
Well, I suppose that's all there is to say. Thanks, everyone.👍

David Barrett85 said:So, let me get this straight $77 we’re supposed to spread those extra costs over the next twelve months, rather than just working an extra shift this year to pay off the current policy, canceling it on schedule, and locking in a better rate with MetLife?

To top it all off, he goes through the trouble of opening a dedicated thread just for this. If he had been halfway decent during the initial negotiation, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It's such petty, small-minded business.😵

Supplemental health insurance policies don't actually have an expiration date; they're signed for an indefinite period, with the premium fixed for just one coverage year. The reason lawmakers set it up this way is supposedly to prevent people from forgetting to renew their coverage, which would otherwise leave them footing massive medical bills out of pocket.

I am not responsible for your personal trauma, and I would truly appreciate it if you didn't try to pin that on me. Please. 👍

David Barrett85 said:So, let me get this straight $77 we’re supposed to spread those extra costs over the next twelve months, rather than just working an extra shift this year to pay off the current policy, canceling it on schedule, and locking in a better rate with MetLife?

To top it all off, he goes through the trouble of opening a dedicated thread just for this. If he had been halfway decent during the initial negotiation, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It's such petty, small-minded business.😵

Supplemental health insurance policies don't actually have an expiration date; they're signed for an indefinite period, with the premium fixed for just one coverage year. The reason lawmakers set it up this way is supposedly to prevent people from forgetting to renew their coverage, which would otherwise leave them footing massive medical bills out of pocket.

Wait, what?
It stands to reason that one ought to check in with a client once their current contract reaches its conclusion to see if they have any interest in renewing for another term.
That’s really just the bare legal minimum; at the end of the day, it all comes down to the level of trust between the parties involved.

mistydrifter56 said:I think the whole thing is pretty straightforward.
I know because I was looking into this exact same thing toward the end of last year (though I didn't end up pulling the trigger on anything).

If you don't want to renew the policy, you have to cancel it in writing at least three months before it expires... or more accurately, you can't wait until that final three-month window hits; you actually have to submit the cancellation during the fourth month before the term ends. In your case, you hit that last three-month stretch (May, June, July), so the policy just automatically renewed, which is why those invoices for next year showed up.

My plan was to sign up for a term starting next December, which means if I wanted out, I would’ve had to cancel in September of this year—not in October, November, or December, since those are the final three months of the policy.

As for that $70 and $30 price point, your agent really should have been upfront about that when you signed up; if they weren't, that's straight-up misleading. That being said, it’s definitely gotta be written somewhere in the contract, and I'm sure it was—it's just that most of us don't bother reading the fine print, so we get blindsided later.

Anyway, that's how I see your situation playing out.

I didn't miss the three-month window for canceling. I didn't, and that is precisely where the error lies.

mistydrifter56 said:I think the whole thing is pretty straightforward.
I know because I was looking into this exact same thing toward the end of last year (though I didn't end up pulling the trigger on anything).

If you don't want to renew the policy, you have to cancel it in writing at least three months before it expires... or more accurately, you can't wait until that final three-month window hits; you actually have to submit the cancellation during the fourth month before the term ends. In your case, you hit that last three-month stretch (May, June, July), so the policy just automatically renewed, which is why those invoices for next year showed up.

My plan was to sign up for a term starting next December, which means if I wanted out, I would’ve had to cancel in September of this year—not in October, November, or December, since those are the final three months of the policy.

As for that $70 and $30 price point, your agent really should have been upfront about that when you signed up; if they weren't, that's straight-up misleading. That being said, it’s definitely gotta be written somewhere in the contract, and I'm sure it was—it's just that most of us don't bother reading the fine print, so we get blindsided later.

Anyway, that's how I see your situation playing out.

No, the agent didn't give even the slightest hint, through word or deed, that the 70 bucks was just a promotional rate. It was all such a pleasant and touching conversation—how Coca-Cola is on my side, how they offer me a whole new perspective on life, and all that sheer beauty and velvety sense of security that Coca-Cola will provide just for me for a mere 70 dollars.
There wasn't even a whisper of an 89 dollar charge.

And that is what prompted me to look into canceling the policy.
A cheap trick by $30..! Absolutely out of the question!

mistydrifter56 said:I think the whole thing is pretty straightforward.
I know because I was looking into this exact same thing toward the end of last year (though I didn't end up pulling the trigger on anything).

If you don't want to renew the policy, you have to cancel it in writing at least three months before it expires... or more accurately, you can't wait until that final three-month window hits; you actually have to submit the cancellation during the fourth month before the term ends. In your case, you hit that last three-month stretch (May, June, July), so the policy just automatically renewed, which is why those invoices for next year showed up.

My plan was to sign up for a term starting next December, which means if I wanted out, I would’ve had to cancel in September of this year—not in October, November, or December, since those are the final three months of the policy.

As for that $70 and $30 price point, your agent really should have been upfront about that when you signed up; if they weren't, that's straight-up misleading. That being said, it’s definitely gotta be written somewhere in the contract, and I'm sure it was—it's just that most of us don't bother reading the fine print, so we get blindsided later.

Anyway, that's how I see your situation playing out.

Thanks for looking at it that way..👍

cosmicpanther70 said:Look, I don't have the exact timeline down, which is why I said back then...

Basically, on this specific date, I stopped paying $23 my premiums due on this particular day.

Then a second bill showed up with a due date of this and this...
I canceled it on this date... wait, how did you cancel it? What was the process?

..........
Okay, so the policy runs until July 2020. When was it actually canceled? And through what channel?

-----

Let’s wrap this up... I'm certain there's no shady business going on here. The policy just renews at the original agreed rate; there isn't some special promotional price involved. You get the promo rate while the policy stays active and keeps renewing... the price only shifts if you cancel the whole thing and sign a brand-new contract. Whether that happened because of non-payment or something else—we need to pin that down by looking at the actual sequence of events.

1. My State Farm supplemental insurance policy was signed via a Contract for the period from July 2019 to July 2020.

2. I paid my monthly installments of $10 consistently until the COVID-19 pandemic hit, at which point I fell behind and missed my last three monthly payments.

3. While I was still catching up on those outstanding payments (for May, June, and July 2020), new invoices arrived for $13.

4. I ignored those invoices because I didn't have the bandwidth to deal with them, given that I hadn't actually signed a new contract, and more importantly, I still owed the final three installments from the previous agreement.
Eventually, after some time had passed, I decided to look into what exactly was going on with these $30.
An agent explained that the initial $10 rate was a promotional price, and that $13 was the new standard amount.

5. I sent an email to the Company explaining that I would settle the debt for the remaining three $10 installments, and I demanded the termination of the Contract, arguing that I had been misled by the sudden jump to $13.

6. I received an email from the Company confirming the policy cancellation, but stating that I am still responsible for the remaining balance through the end of 2020, which includes four additional installments at the $13 rate.

cosmicpanther70 said:Ultimately, this leads straight to a garnishment. All you can really do is sit down and think—or better yet, write out—exactly what happened in the interim

Was that previous policy canceled on your end? How did a new one from $30 even get triggered? Give me the actual timeline. Anything else is just guesswork.

The reality is that COVID-19 hit and left me unable to cover my $23 premiums. Once things stabilized, I settled the debt. I still haven't cleared the last $23 from my initial Chevron policy, but I fully intend to.
I’ve been trying to make it clear that I have zero interest in a new policy, yet they insist that continuing the payments is implied because of how the original contract was structured.
And that is $30 ridiculous!

cosmicpanther70 said:Ultimately, this leads straight to a garnishment. All you can really do is sit down and think—or better yet, write out—exactly what happened in the interim

Was that previous policy canceled on your end? How did a new one from $30 even get triggered? Give me the actual timeline. Anything else is just guesswork.

I was the one who canceled it. They sent me a single invoice for $23, which I accept since it aligns with the contract I actually signed.
But then they follow that up with a whole stack of invoices for $30!?
My original policy of $23 ran from July 2019 through July 2020.
So why, in August, are they sending me bills for 2020 totaling $30?!

Actually, before I ever initiated the cancellation, they sent over a series of invoices for $30 without any prior notice, letter, or explanation whatsoever.
That was about eight months ago.
I ignored it at the time because I assumed it was an error, given that I hadn't signed a new agreement.
When I finally spoke to the agent, she told me to submit a formal written grievance. So, I did.
In response, they sent me a contract termination notice, but it included a demand that I pay $30 premiums for an eight-to-twelve-month period in 2020.
The issue remains that I never requested a new policy, let alone one billed $30 monthly!

I explained to the agent over the phone that when I originally signed with Chevron Aetna, $23 the payments were handled monthly. Nobody ever mentioned that the rate was merely a promotional teaser, which, in my view, feels less like a misunderstanding and more like outright deception.

cosmicpanther70 said:Pre-litigation collections:

First notice
Second notice

Pre-litigation collection is basically a way to settle debts quietly without involving the courts. It’s the stage where we notify a debtor that they have an overdue balance. This process involves sending a formal written warning—essentially a demand letter—followed by direct phone calls to follow up. Unless we've struck a different deal with the client, this phase typically runs anywhere from 30 to 60 days.

Where does this lead?
Straight to asset seizure?

Is it permissible to claim deception on the part of Coca-Cola?

I never requested a new insurance policy.

I suppose I should probably say something, though I’m not entirely sure there’s much to be gained from it. It feels like we’re all just circling the same drain, waiting for someone to make sense of things when the reality is far more tedious than anyone wants to admit. There isn't really a point in overcomplicating what is essentially a predictable outcome. Mark Ortiz5 says:
Supplemental insurance like Aetna can be a bit of a headache. You usually don't realize what you're actually missing until you're already staring down a massive bill. That goes for this specific situation, but it’s really more of a general rule when it comes to coverage.

Medicare operates with a three-month notice period, which essentially means you can decide to terminate your contract at any point, provided you’re willing to cover the premiums for those final three months to wrap things up. However, there is a significant caveat if you try to cancel before your initial twelve-month term is actually complete. Since the policy is strictly bound to a one-year duration from the date of signing—say, if you signed on December 12, 2019—you have some flexibility throughout 2020 to cancel as long as you pay out that three-month buffer. But, if you wait until the very end, like December 11, 2020, you can walk away without owing another cent, provided the cancellation is processed before that anniversary date hits. Because the policy doesn't automatically renew itself, once that twelve-month mark passes, you aren't locked into any further obligations.

It’s a completely different story when you deal with Aetna. Their policies operate on a strict twelve-month cycle, which means if you decide to cancel mid-year, you're still on the hook for the full premium of the current term. You can only opt out of the upcoming coverage by giving them a three-month heads-up before the next cycle kicks in.

Take a scenario like this: you sign an insurance policy on January 1st, 2019, which covers you through the end of that year. If you decide you don't want it to renew for 2020, you can certainly cancel it during the 2019 term, but there is a catch regarding the timing. You have to submit that cancellation by September 1st, 2019; otherwise, the policy automatically rolls over into the new year, leaving you on the hook for the full premium.
In 2020, you have the flexibility to cancel up to nine months whenever you see fit, though you’re still on the hook for the full year's cost regardless. As for 2021, there won't be a renewal.

It happened this way up here, but the real issue—the part that simply shouldn't have been allowed to happen—is the arbitrary shifting of the payout amounts, especially when you've already locked in a specific policy rate. $23 It holds steady. $23 Until they actually cancel the policy, I don't have any leeway to hike up the rates whenever I feel like it; unless they terminate their current coverage and sign an entirely new contract, my hands are tied.

I appreciate you laying everything out so clearly. I had no idea about any of this because none of these details were mentioned when they were trying to sell me on the policy. At the time, the whole pitch felt incredibly straightforward and far too promising.
There wasn't even a single word spoken regarding that matter.
Of course it isn't. And today, I finally understand exactly why.

cosmicpanther70 said:Supplemental insurance is tricky. You usually don't realize how it works until it's too late... both regarding this specific situation and in general.

Medicare has a three-month notice period. Basically, you can cancel at any point, but you’ll be on the hook for the next three months and then you're done... UNLESS you cancel before the 12-month mark hits... then there's zero notice period required. Let me clarify... if you sign a 12-month policy on a specific date—say, December 12, 2019—you can cancel anytime during 2020, provided you pay out those final three months. But if you cancel by December 11, 2020, you owe nothing. As long as you pull the plug before that anniversary date, there's no three-month rule because the policy doesn't auto-renew.

Aetna is a different story altogether. Their policies run for 12 months... so if you try to cancel mid-year, you're still responsible for the full premium for that term. To stop it from renewing for the following year, you have to give them 3 months' notice.

For example... if a policy starts January 1, 2019, and runs through January 1, 2020... you can tell them in 2019 that you don't want it to renew for 2020, but you have to do that by September 1, 2019. If you miss that window, the 2020 policy kicks in automatically and you're stuck paying the whole thing.
In 2020, you can cancel whenever you want with 3 months' notice. Regardless, you're still paying for all of 2020. It just won't renew for 2021.

That's what happened here... but what *shouldn't* have happened is them changing the pricing structure. If a policy was locked in for $23, it stays at that rate for $23 unless it's canceled. They can't just hike the price whenever they feel like it unless they terminate the old policy and make you sign a brand new one.

The only way this becomes an issue is if they terminated the policy due to non-payment... specifically this one from $23. I think missing three payments is the trigger for termination, but you'd have to check the fine print.
Now, about that new $89 policy: if you've paid even a single bill toward it, that's legally considered a renewal of the contract. If that's the case, you've got no ground to appeal and no way out. You'll have to pay the full year. Tell me exactly what you paid and when.

I finally pulled the trigger and canceled my contract. Now I’m just sitting here wondering when they’re actually going to send over the updated billing statements. $30 It honestly left me feeling pretty incensed. I was genuinely livid. The sheer level of arrogance and audacity on display was just staggering.
I wasn't exactly out looking to pick up a new policy, nor had I even been utilizing my old one, though I have been staying on top of the payments—well, except for that three-month stretch where I fell behind. I’ve since settled those arrears, yet somehow I find myself sitting here with an outstanding balance once again. $23 It’s from the old precinct.

They just sent over a bill requiring me to cover half of the new policy through December 2019, which comes out to $89 a month.
They’ve started threatening me with out-of-court collections if I don't comply immediately.
So, what exactly constitutes out-of-court collection?

casualstag4 said:Supplemental insurance policies usually include a clause stating the contract automatically renews once it expires, even if you haven't signed anything new. It stays active until one of the parties actually requests a cancellation. You didn't ask to terminate yours, and neither did they.

So, how exactly are you defining fraud here?
Isn't this practice illegal?

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

I could use some advice here.

Back in August 2019, an agent from State Farm reached out to me regarding a supplemental health insurance plan. She offered me a specific package for $70 a month.
I agreed to the terms and signed the contract once it arrived in my mailbox.
My intention was to cover just one year, spanning 2019 through 2020.

Then the pandemic hit, things got tight financially, and I fell behind on my last three $70 installments (leaving me with just one final $70 payment left to go).
In the middle of all that, in September 2020, they sent me a batch of invoices for $89 under that same policy number.

$30 ?!
I didn't jump on it immediately, only realizing something was wrong when a late notice showed up.
I called the agent back to explain that I had zero interest in renewing this policy at an increased rate of $89, and frankly, I have no idea who authorized such an extension because I certainly wasn't planning on paying for more expensive coverage.
I asked her where exactly $30 this new policy came from.
She tried to tell me that $23 the initial rate was merely a promotional offer.
I made it clear that I was never given that information, which suggests the agent was being quite deceptive by omitting those details during our first conversation.

Someone suggested I file a formal dispute.
So, I submitted a complaint via email.
Their response was that they would only terminate the policy starting in $30 December 2020, but insisted that I still owed the balance for the preceding months.

I attempted to clarify that I never signed any agreement to extend the policy beyond $30. Now, the amount they claim I owe has ballooned to $500.
To make matters worse, I’ve just received a notice regarding pre-legal collection efforts.

It doesn't make sense to me...
How can they threaten me with collections if I never signed a contract for the renewal?!