Posts by Samuel Miller21

I suppose I should add a few more thoughts now that my own selfishness and recent bout of bad luck have subsided...

What a bummer. Someone gave you some solid advice there: just find a job at a school (or somewhere else entirely) and set aside the PhD pursuit. Where does this path even lead? I suspect that even after finishing the doctorate, one simply follows an inertia toward something equally unfulfilling. 🤷
The absolute worst thing you can do is engage in intellectual labor that fails to capture your interest. Perhaps I only speak from my own limited experience, but it seems to me that performing routine physical labor might actually be easier than that.

Try to detach from your parents and their specific value systems; you have your own family now, and your responsibility lies solely with them. (Though, you didn't mention what your wife's perspective is on all this.)
Regarding that matter... my parents never had much money. It’s not that I grew up in poverty, but I attended a private prep school where everyone came from much wealthier backgrounds, and I often struggled to keep up with them. Yet, not once in my life did I think my existence would be better if my parents earned more or if we were wealthier. What I thought many times, however, was how much easier it would have been if they had simply been happier. If they could have provided a more joyful model for me to emulate.
In principle, the most valuable thing you can offer your children is an example of how to live a happy life. Beyond meeting their basic needs, that is truly your greatest responsibility to them.

This is one of my primary motivations (or it will be, once I move past this current phase 😁 ) to ensure that I don't pass down to my children—should I have them—exactly what my parents passed to me: that underlying fear of happiness. I know how irrational that sounds, but that is essentially what it boils down to. I want to be the one to break that cycle, rather than having them spend the next twenty or thirty years posting similar nonsense on an online forum. 😁

Samuel Miller21, have you ever considered opening your own career counseling practice for people struggling with their professional direction? I have a strong feeling you would truly excel at it. 😍 😉

Samuel Phillips2 said:I realized while working in the molecular biology lab that this field just isn't for me—but I’ve been white-knuckling it this far. Everyone kept telling me to just finish what I started... So many years wasted, when my heart was always pulling me toward painting, sculpting, and all those "childish" pursuits. I ended up enrolling in a PhD program just because everyone else was doing it—it felt like the only way to avoid being stuck as a high school teacher forever.😢
Even when I manage to scrape by on an exam or a term paper, the whole thing just crushes me. I feel like I'm going to snap.

I'm drifting further and further away from what actually matters to me. What kills me most is knowing I actually have talent—some of my amateur sculptures have even gotten praise—but I'm past thirty now. I've got a wife and kids to think about, so I need a paycheck. I hate my job, and honestly, I hate myself for being such a coward. Now I don't even have the time to take a class, and I definitely don't have the expertise required for AT&T 🤷

I want to switch careers, but I'm terrified it's too late and that I've already blown my shot at life.
Sometimes I think about just running away... but then I think about being broke... and about my kids, who'll end up being teased by their classmates for having a "starving artist" dad.

I was always the star student, and my parents are so proud of their future PhD, but underneath it all, I'm just filled with self-loathing. I know deep down that as a scientist, I'm a total zero and just lazy. I read research papers without understanding them and without any passion. I loathe it. I hate the lab. Even the people there—the ones who are actually upbeat and hardworking—aren't bad people. But I despise them; I subconsciously resent them for my own failures. It drives me crazy seeing them do better than me.

I want to work, and I have the energy and the drive, just not for pipettes and microscopes. Not for writing abstracts or running statistical tests.

Please—give me some advice, because if I keep going like this, this frustration is going to permanently kill my spirit and my will to live.

Reading this gave me chills... it makes me feel like nature is trying to send me some kind of sign 😁 though that could easily be interpreted in too many directions given my current state of mind.

I’ll add myself to the list of those who see themselves reflected in these words... I'm in my fourth year at MIT, and while I've managed to pass everything so far, this fourth year has hit me like a wall. I'm stuck. I can't move forward. I might have an oral exam tomorrow, but today, my entire body is failing me. My kidneys are acting up, among other things I won't go into detail about if I want to maintain some shred of dignity, assuming I haven't already lost it. 😁
I also firmly believe there is a field out there where I would be better—or at least, where I could give more of myself, more authentically.
I wasn't a bad student (at least, I wasn't until this final year) in my major, but I am painfully aware that I will never be a great engineer, not even close. Some of the people who started alongside me, even those who were barely scraping by in lectures, are miles ahead of me now (and I truly respect them 🙏)... they are nearing graduation and are already landing positions at top-tier companies and so on.

Just thinking about the idea of not enrolling in a new degree, or finding another way to pursue the path that has always drawn me in, causes me physical pain.
Once again, I find myself surrounded by people who seem genuinely repulsed by the mere idea of me pivoting toward a different path—even my closest friends, the ones who supposedly know me best, can't wrap their heads around it.

I’m not sharing this to seek pity... it is simply an impulsive reaction after reading about someone else facing a strikingly similar dilemma.

So, I have to wonder: is it selfish, irresponsible, or perhaps even childish to change course after a specific group of people has already rallied behind us in such a short amount of time? Hmm...
We had a choice, we made a decision, and we aren't children here to whine or play the victim by pretending life has simply crushed us. Surely, one ought to stand by their word. 🤷

On the other hand, how does one actually follow through when even your own body begins to fail you? When you start feeling suffocated by the very life you built? When you walk down a street in Chicago and find yourself thinking how wonderful it would be to just sit in a park and fade away—to simply cease existing—because you honestly struggle to see the point in continuing to consume oxygen alongside people who are actually out there making something of themselves.

I truly don't know. 😢

Donna Sullivan7 said:-Yeah, it’s always easiest to kick someone while they're already down... just to make sure they really feel how much everything sucks.
-Honestly, who hasn't been there? You're lucky if you can even find a reason to get out of bed.
-And let's be real, most people don't appreciate what they have until it's gone or they've totally messed it up.
-For me, the mornings are the absolute worst. Just trying to crawl out of bed feels like pure agony... I can't tell if it's better to just write through it or sleep so I can disappear for a bit. The tears stopped coming a long time ago—just dried up and left me dehydrated years back.

👍

I have always found it fascinating how you often receive the most profound empathy from the people you feel awkward complaining to, simply because you realize their own burdens might be even heavier. Meanwhile, everyone else tends to offer those dismissive remarks: "You don't have real problems," or "You're overreacting."

Eros, please keep writing... you truly have such a beautiful way with words.
I’ve been trying to recall my own exit from hell so I could offer you some kind of roadmap, but everything I think of ends up sounding like one of those hollow self-help books.
There comes a point where the pain itself transforms into something poetic. It happens when we finally move past the desperate wish to simply vanish and instead allow ourselves the possibility of existing despite the loss. When that happens, even a shattered illusion finds its own meaning, a small, warm place within us... and the colors start to return.
As for myself, I am still holding onto hope for the ability to love again... though it seems that is the last thing to arrive. 😁

briskscout10 said:Someone was asking about the role of serotonin... and how medication fits into the picture...

Serotonin acts as a neurotransmitter—essentially the chemical messenger that facilitates synaptic transmission, allowing impulses to jump between two nerve cells. It’s widely understood that for individuals living with OCD, certain intrusive thoughts can get stuck in a literal loop, causing a sort of mental overheating (much like an engine running too hot in a broken car). This is where medication comes in; by inhibiting serotonin, these drugs help regulate its ability to transmit impulses in specific areas of the brain. This effectively breaks that cycle, preventing those unwanted thoughts and obsessions from looping back around endlessly.

I actually just learned this myself. I had spent so much time under the impression that serotonin was simply the "feel-good" neurotransmitter that we lack when dealing with OCD. To think that it might actually be an issue of having too much rather than too little... it really makes you stop and think, doesn't it?🤔

Patrick Hernandez27 said:I went through various tests and evaluations, and they didn't find any personality disorders or anything else that would explain it. For me, this manifested in its purest form. My IQ scores actually came back quite high, except for the spatial intelligence portion where I struggled significantly. Abstract reasoning seemed to be my strongest suit, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure if there's a connection here, but I thought I'd mention it...

A lot of people I've met who deal with this are incredibly intelligent. In my case, it was especially frustrating because it felt like it was throttling my mental potential and my intellect. Once I finally broke through it, I started picking up languages much faster—now I'm fluent in nearly three—and I even participated in several competitions and such.

I think there’s a real distinction between OCD triggered by how you perceive the world due to your upbringing, and the kind caused by actual brain chemistry. I truly believe mine is the latter...

Could someone please explain that famous role serotonin plays in this whole situation?

I’ve had quite the opposite experience; it feels like my intelligence checked out right along with my libido. 🤣
And what kind of analyses was I even capable of performing back then? 😍
It seems the same pattern is repeating itself across all the competitions.
I find myself grappling with a rather persistent intellectual hurdle lately: those fundamental syllogisms. They seem to pose a more significant challenge to my reasoning than I initially anticipated. 😁

Could someone please clarify the actual role that serotonin plays in this entire situation?

I have been pondering whether serotonin might actually act as a buffer against OCD by inducing a sense of happiness, security, and inner peace. If such a state of fulfillment is achieved—is that not exactly what leads to a significant drop in anxiety?
I find myself constantly reflecting on the bidirectional relationship between our biology and our mindset. It is my firm belief that just as brain chemistry dictates our thoughts and emotions, those very thoughts and emotions, in turn, possess the power to reshape our underlying chemistry. This feedback loop is precisely why I believe in the profound efficacy of psychotherapy; if we can influence the mind, we can ultimately influence the biological self.

Have you ever considered exploring psychotherapy?

Patrick Hernandez27 said:That’s just how I’d put it...

I’m not trying to diminish anyone else’s pain, I really am. But I lived through the most extreme version of OCD imaginable. It wasn't just those occasional waves of obsession that hit you and then eventually subside... For me, it was just life. Every single day. Honestly, I don't even know how I made it through all of that. Someone in my shoes would have given up on life a long time ago...

Psychotherapy helped me out, more or less... I was on this medication called Fever, and honestly, it took about six months before I even started noticing a difference. I ended up staying on it for several years, taking it every single day without fail. About a year ago, I finally decided enough was enough. It was getting in the way of my studies and just interfering with my life in general, so I made the call to stop on my own... I went through a bit of a rough patch at first, dealing with those chemical dependency withdrawals, but after four months, I was finally clear of it for good.

It’s been exactly one year since that whole ordeal... and I haven't had a single symptom since.

I’d argue that what really matters here is willpower. Every obsession draws its strength from fear—fear being the ultimate killer. Once you manage to destroy that fear, you've achieved a massive victory...

I find myself in agreement with this perspective.👍

When dealing with OCD, courage is absolutely paramount. In fact, resisting the urge to give in requires a level of strength—or perhaps a touch of madness—that feels just as daunting as staring down the edge of a skyscraper.
In your own internal reality, the perceived danger is just as terrifying whether you are considering jumping from a building or simply refusing to perform a compulsion for the thousandth time.
Personally, I find that channeling anger helps me get through it.
Or I lean on a specific thought experiment: I can choose a life defined by these millions of repetitive cycles, or I can take a risk. If I take that risk, the thing I dread might actually happen. And if it does? Well, then it's over.😁 (And quite frankly, non-existence sounds far more appealing than a life spent trapped in those horrific, fear-driven loops).
One can overcome OCD if they are strong enough, or perhaps desperate enough, to confront their own mortality. When you truly accept the possibility of death, it becomes an ace up your sleeve—something you can play whenever these intrusive thoughts try to mess with you.

By the way, samonesto... what kind of struggles are you facing, if you feel comfortable sharing?
Regarding what you mentioned about religion...
If you're able to talk about it... I remember during my darkest periods, I didn't even allow myself to write about these things. My goodness, we really are quite the group of eccentrics, aren't we?😁

These are all the things that finally come flooding back once you start feeling like you actually belong in this world again.

What’s the deal with this friend you went out with?
Aside from the fact that she's currently riding high...
It is an incredibly heavy sensation, isn't it? To feel as though you are personally falling apart while someone right next to you is just chirping away happily. You likely feel even more displaced and diminished, as if you are drifting further away from the rest of society. But if you could somehow find a way to accept her current state of happiness, perhaps a fragment of it might rub off on you... It can be quite tempting to let yourself "sink" into someone else's joy until you feel strong enough to build something of your own.

So, it isn't as if everything is irreparable. 😉

No matter how devastating a setback might feel, there is an argument to be made that these moments can actually trigger a positive turning point in one's life. When we fail to meet the expectations others have placed upon us—and we manage to survive that fallout—it often becomes much easier to start pursuing what we truly desire for ourselves.

How do you perceive yourself right now? Do you have any specific aspirations or a particular path you hope to follow in the future?
When you use phrases like 'someone' or 'something,' what kind of imagery comes to mind?

I get the impression that you feel so disconnected from the world that even food has lost its appeal. But do you remember what used to bring you joy—back before this current phase—or was there at least something that captured your interest?

Alexander Lopez11 said:I suppose I should check in and let you all know that I failed my exam. I had three core subjects to cover; I felt completely confident about two of them, but the third one just completely slipped through my fingers, and I didn't pass. Honestly, I've just been crying. I really wanted to make something of myself. I haven't eaten all day—I can't even bring myself to eat because the very thought of food makes me feel sick. Nothing brings me joy anymore; absolutely nothing. Everything feels so monotonous and dark. I tried going out with a friend to clear my head, but it didn't help at all; if anything, it made things worse because listening to her enjoy life just feels unbearable. There is one small glimmer of light in this whole miserable situation, though, which is that the person I mentioned before—the one whose love I never truly received—wants to come back into my life. But given how I'm feeling right now, I just can't bear the idea of anyone seeing me in this state. All I can talk about is death and these horrible, heavy things. Last night, I was gripped by this sudden wave of panic, and I don't even know what triggered it. I just can't cope, and it feels like nothing can fix it. I find myself wondering what I could have possibly done wrong in my life to have nothing but bad luck hitting me for nineteen years straight. How am I even supposed to be okay when everything around me feels so broken?

What kind of exam was it?
Is there any chance you can retake it?
Considering how you're feeling, those two subjects you mastered weren't a waste at all.

Alexander Lopez11 said:Amanda Stewart7, thank you so much for replying to my private message. I suppose it might be better if I just write out everything you asked here, because maybe it will feel a bit easier, and perhaps I might receive some extra advice or even hear from people who have actually navigated through similar struggles. It’s true—the reason I failed my freshman year of high school was that I lost all the friends I used to have. They all saw me as just being stupid or irresponsible. But I don't think anyone ever stopped to wonder why I was acting out so much, or why I started withdrawing into myself like that. For years, I’ve just been carrying this deep, quiet pain inside me that I couldn't bring myself to admit to myself, let alone to anyone else. It really stems from an unrequited love that I just couldn't let go of. I can't really talk to my parents about these things either, because they tend to treat me like I'm mentally unstable, which makes them start treating me like a little child instead of a person. So much has happened to me in these nineteen years; I lost my uncle in a car accident, my aunt passed away from leukemia, and my dad got so sick with diabetes he almost died. I honestly just feel like everyone is rejecting me, and I feel like I can never, ever be the person that everyone expects me to be. I just want to feel loved in the way I used to be. I want to reach a point where I finally realize I am beautiful on my own, rather than always needing other people to tell me so. I want to feel like I actually matter, like I'm someone important. And I guess, in the future, I want to be with someone I love so deeply that it actually makes all this current heartache feel even more intense. I truly want to leave the past behind and find some genuine, normal friends, though I know that feels nearly impossible right now given my mental state and the fact that I fell behind in school last year. I just want to be able to sleep at night like everyone else does, instead of lying there in the dark, trapped by these terrible thoughts. I sometimes wish someone would just care about me as a person—someone who once walked twelve miles through the snow just to see me. I have this overwhelming urge to go back in time and change everything, but since that isn't possible, I find myself thinking quite often that death might just be the most ideal way to end all this suffering.

When I read your first post, I thought you felt so fragile that you didn't even dare to have any desires. (Which leads to a strange paradox where "a person has everything they could wish for," yet finds life unbearable, making the only perceived exit leaving it altogether.)
But looking at this second post, it seems to me that you are actually stronger than you realize.😉

When someone experiences a failure like yours, it is incredibly easy to fall into a vicious cycle.
Because of mental health struggles, you experience a setback, and then you cling even tighter to those struggles so that you don't lose your "reason" for the failure. This, in turn, creates space for even more failures, and the cycle repeats.
In this way, you have something to hold onto, even if that something is painful and unbearable.
Is it possible that you fear if you allow yourself even a tiny bit of happiness, you will lose your final shield? That you’ll be left completely exposed to the world, with nothing left to defend yourself against being called "stupid and irresponsible"?

I believe that label—"stupid and irresponsible"—comes primarily from within you, from some internal critic. Perhaps this depression is your way of trying to escape him, a way of showing him how weak you are in the hopes that he might become less demanding and less cruel.
Can you try to convince yourself that you deserve even a small moment of joy?
Are there any things at all that you can find enjoyment in right now?

There really is no reason to worry; this will all settle itself in time. You eventually come to realize that a parent might not truly understand you, regardless of how much effort both sides put in. For deep understanding, you turn to your friends, whereas a parent’s role is to provide that steady, protective guidance—to watch over you and warn you of potential pitfalls. Sometimes they tend to blow things out of proportion, shouting "fire" when there isn't one, but honestly, that’s just a sign that they are functioning normally 😁

As long as you can distinguish your own thoughts from any external voices, you are doing alright. 👍

Once you experience your first taste of true independence, you'll realize that you have room within yourself to hold both perspectives 😉
And quite often, when real crises hit later on, they will surprise you with their warmth and sudden empathy (even if they spend the time leading up to it fussing over you), because despite everything, you will always be their child 🙂 through all the good and the bad that entails. 🙂

I suppose I was being a bit too intense there... trying to explain things through the lens of absolute freedom isn't always the most effective approach...🤷
Ultimately, my point was simply that guilt isn't necessarily the monster people make it out to be.
I personally struggled quite a bit with an overwhelming sense of guilt in the past, but now that I’ve managed to let much of it go, I realize that those feelings actually served a purpose in my life. Guilt acted as a motivator for so many things; it provided a sense of direction whenever I felt like I was about to veer off course for the fifteenth time.

Sandra Parker3 said:Was just reading.
Every time we get attached to someone?
Well, we’re constantly in some kind of relationship, whether it's obvious or not.
Fear of loss? Please, no way.
In my opinion, freedom isn't actually freedom if the cost is The Unbearable Lightness of Being.
Actually, let me rephrase: if the price is unbearable, then what's the point? Why bother enjoying its benefits?

So we end up circling back to guilt, right?
When the price tag gets that high, you start feeling guilty toward yourself... or toward someone else.
But that’s not quite it.

You know what true freedom feels like? Right now. It's the fact that I logged back on just to give you an answer.
And I don't feel guilty about it. Not by my own standards, anyway. A while ago, I wouldn't have even thought to mention it. 🙂

That is precisely the point. Humans are creatures designed for attachment, yet the moment we attach ourselves to something, we surrender a portion of our autonomy. Consider a mother: she is significantly less free in her daily actions than a woman without children, yet that mother possesses a much richer emotional life—even if it comes at the expense of certain freedoms.
A mother has far less time to focus solely on herself; she is constrained by the constant worry for her child, and she faces the weight of guilt whenever she steps out for a moment and leaves them with a nanny or a sitter.

Freedom feels wonderful when one is being suppressed—when one is under the thumb of overbearing parents, an obsessive partner, a demanding spouse, a grueling job, or a stifling environment. In those moments, freedom is like oxygen; without it, we would suffocate.

On the other hand, a person who is entirely free is someone who depends on no one emotionally—someone whom no one can trigger with feelings of guilt or fear. In other words, they are someone completely detached from the rest of humanity.
And such a level of freedom is actually unbearable for a human being; it is the precipice where one might reach for a gun and end it all. (It is quite similar to the first scenario, where one is utterly suffocated.)

Humanity is always oscillating between these two extremes: total freedom and the complete absence of it.
Both the total lack of freedom and absolute, unattached freedom are intolerable for a person who simultaneously craves individuality (following their own inner impulses) and feels a fundamental need to connect with others.

Sandra Parker3 said:Just one more thing:

People don't just aim for some "middle ground."

Free from what, exactly?
If you're thinking about getting into a relationship, you don't necessarily have to be "free" to do that.

And even then, I don't think anyone is looking to "bind" themselves or "submit" in the way you're describing.

Also, yeah, I agree that morality is an internal compass, not something forced on us from the outside. But isn't having that internal code enough to make someone "unfree"?

And if the cost of staying true to yourself is too high... then that's not really freedom, Samuel Miller21.
The concept of "cost" is also an internal judgment. It's about being able to look yourself in the mirror. 🙂

@fr., I'm actually heading to bed now; I'll go back and read through this rambling mess once I'm sober................. 🙂

True freedom can only be defined by the total absence of conditions.
Whether that feels liberating or overwhelming is entirely subjective, depending on where a person stands at any given moment. And yes, sometimes the cost truly can be unbearable.

The problem is that most of us were raised on this romanticized, idealized notion of liberty—that "oh, how beautiful and sweet freedom is" sentiment. It makes it incredibly difficult for us to grasp that this very same freedom, when pushed to its extreme, can become utterly suffocating.

Kundera wrote a brilliant book that touches on this: The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

Every time we tether ourselves to someone else, we are essentially surrendering a portion of our own autonomy. We expose ourselves to the weight of guilt if we fail to meet their expectations, and the constant, nagging fear of loss.

Kyle Nelson2 said:you're talking about enslaving freedom, but that’s not what freedom actually is...

In my opinion, true freedom is when everything I do is done without any conditioning, guilt, or social morality weighing me down...

Look, I'm not saying morality doesn't exist, but it has to be this deeply personal, internal thing, not some rule imposed by society.

I am not suggesting that freedom is being enslaved; quite the contrary.

I agree that freedom is achieved when one acts entirely without conditioning—my point is simply that the price of such absolute autonomy is too high for any human to pay. To reach that level of independence, one would have to sever all ties to everything outside themselves, which is fundamentally impossible, given that our most basic existential need is to remain connected to others.

Chris Sanchez11 said:Maybe.
I'm trying to look at this objectively, but I think my own nature leans toward the extremes. 😁
It feels to me like you can actually reach higher levels of freedom through curiosity, asking questions, and constant learning.
It's really about consciousness. Even in relationships—where everything from basic friendship to marriage involves limiting your own autonomy—it's basically just a series of voluntary sacrifices of your freedom.
I don't think the concept of absolute freedom would even work for us because humans are social creatures by design. Relationships require compromise.
It all feels like one big loop; on one hand, there's that innate drive to push back against dogma and forced values, but then there's what you said—you break free from a dictator just to tie yourself to something else.
Maybe it's all about moderation.
Or maybe I've just talked myself into a massive knot, Bog help me. 🙄 😁

Exactly that—the circle... or more accurately, an opposition, a seesaw, and a person jumping back and forth between the two. 🙂

Chris Sanchez11 said:Freedom comes with responsibility, and responsibility inevitably brings fear.
The fear of failing and taking the blame, or the fear of making choices that shape your own life and everyone else's—choices that lead to more guilt if they turn out to be wrong.

Being the opposition to a dictator is just human nature. We're wired to be free and curious, pushing back against rules forced upon us. It's evolution; it's how humans grow by asking questions, exploring, and digging deeper. And that usually leaves you with more questions than answers.
A dictator is the one who labels that freedom as "evil" just because it sounds bad and makes people feel guilty.
And once you control someone through guilt, you control them. 😉

I wouldn't go so far as to say that human nature is inherently free.
Just look at how many ways we tend to torment ourselves, even when there isn't some external "whip" driving us.
We all carry internal mechanisms designed to restrict our own freedom; human nature is actually quite far from being truly liberated.
Freedom is one extreme, and total subjugation is the other. Humans always exist somewhere in the middle. We are constantly seeking a balance—when we lack freedom, we dream of it, but when we are free, we often find ourselves searching for something to bind us to, or some way to submit.

This is a fascinating topic, deeply intertwined with our very definition of freedom. After all, guilt serves as one of those fundamental mechanisms that constrains our liberty.

I suspect many people overlook a vital truth: human beings were never actually designed for absolute, unbridled freedom..
It brings to mind a poignant line from poetry: "Will freedom ever learn how to sing, in the way that the enslaved once sang of it?"

Whether we look at organized religion, conservative political frameworks, or even the institution of marriage—these are all ways in which we voluntarily surrender a portion of our autonomy.
A believer submits to Bog, a citizen commits to a political ideology, a spouse yields to their partner... and there is a certain inherent beauty in that sacrifice, a sense of purpose that can only be forged through the weight of lived experience.

When we exist in total freedom, we are light, airy, and unburdened... yet, in that lightness, we lose our roots, our purpose, and our significance.
Guilt, fear, and those other heavy emotions may be difficult, but they are essential and unavoidable for anyone who dares to truly feel and to remain connected to others.