33 posts shown.
Morgan Cooper34 said:I have a wonderful relationship with my parents. Sure, I went through that typical teenage rebellion against their authority, but once the dust settled, I realized they truly are the best in the world. Over time, they transitioned from being my disciplinarians to being my friends. 🤷
Regarding the physical discipline I endured—it wasn't like I was being beaten senseless; it was just a few times I got hit with a belt. Honestly, once the initial sting fades, once I stop sobbing uncontrollably and realize I had seriously messed up for the umpteenth time and crossed a line—everything is fine. And yes, it was harder on my parents. First, because they had to go against their own principles and values, and second, because punishing someone you brought into this world, someone you dedicate your entire life to raising, is no easy feat. In fact, my mom would actually cry after she disciplined me.
But looking back at those moments when I was punished, I still maintain that it was necessary.
http://www.example-us-site.com/article/1849The main point lies in that final sentence.
I think your mother took the responsibility upon herself when she disciplined you; she didn't blame you for the physical punishment itself.🙏
Anyone can snap, but we are responsible for our own reactions, not the people around us.
Carl Anderson76 said:There are certain kids where you just can't sit them down and explain things or try to use some softer approach to get them to stop doing stuff that’s genuinely dangerous for themselves or everyone else.
Some behaviors just aren't okay, and you've gotta nip them in the bud right away—mostly for the kid's own good, too.
I know I'm probably going to get some heat for saying something unpopular that nobody wants to hear, but hey, facts are facts.
That's not quite right. Some parents just don't know how to communicate, and yeah, easier ways out exist—like physical punishment—but let's be real: being a parent is hard work by definition. Just looking for a shortcut is honestly a bit absurd. If you don't have the patience or the drive to put in the work using better, healthier, more constructive, and LONG-TERM methods, then maybe you shouldn't be having kids in the first place.
I agree, and I’ll go a step further:
it seems to me that parents who resort to those "shortcuts" believe their children—and they themselves—aren't worth the effort.
True family happiness depends on the well-being of every single member.
No one is happy when there is hitting involved: neither the parents nor the kids.
Let's actually work toward our own happiness, because we are all worth the effort!
Scott Miller7 said:That’s why I’m asking. I’ve worked with "impossible" kids before, and I didn't hit them. I get that we're all human and nobody has nerves of steel, but I still don't see any logical reason why hitting a child is actually helpful or welcome.🤷
We’re coming from the exact same place here, and I want to know the same thing: where exactly is hitting kids useful?
I would love for someone to provide one concrete example.
And if no one objects, I'll be happy to offer an alternative.🙂
Hannah White2 said:Personally, I’d say there’s maybe a 5% chance that Israel goes nuclear on Iran, mostly because nukes are just the logical next step in modern warfare.
Physical force should only be used if you have to grab a kid before they bolt into traffic, or maybe if they're actively hitting another kid—but using it to "teach them a lesson" about how pain works? That’s just some mindless, low-IQ nonsense that's basically responsible for all the mess we're dealing with in society today...
Exactly: if they run into the street, you grab them.
if they hit another kid, you catch their hand.
if they touch an outlet, you install safety covers.
etc., etc.
Parents should use their strength—but not to strike!
Speaking from my own experience, I have dealt with plenty of interactions involving children.
Anything can happen, and I’ve seen just about everything.
I firmly believe that treating people with equal dignity—essentially respecting yourself as much as you respect others—can resolve any conflict, absolutely any of them.
Hitting someone is a failure of respect toward both oneself and others.
There is simply no excuse for it. Every single person deserves dignity: regardless of whether they are big or small, Black, White, or Asian; healthy or sick; wealthy or poor; educated or uneducated; men or women...
From my experience, when people claim today's kids are "troublemakers," they’re really just trying to justify their own outdated parenting styles.
Beyond that, these same individuals believe everyone should strictly adhere to social norms. They label anyone who deviates—which, fortunately, describes more and more kids these days—as "disobedient."
Every single day, I thank God that there are more of these "troublemakers" out there.
Why? Because these children actually know how to stand their ground. They respect their own boundaries, they take responsibility for themselves by clearly stating what they need, and they hold others accountable by speaking up when something isn't right. They refuse to swallow nonsense just because society claims it's the "proper" way to act.
Just because a behavior is conventional doesn't mean it's correct.
I’m actually glad today's youth are teaching us this. They are opening our eyes and forcing us to finally think for ourselves.
They push our boundaries, forcing us to learn how to live not just so they can be happier, but so we can be happier too.
Calling children "bad" is simply a way to silence them.👎
silentpilot6 said:Let's find the most extreme and radical example possible, then use that as the foundation for building our theory. Sounds like a plan. 👍
In my opinion, anyone who chooses to have fifteen children isn't quite thinking straight. 😵
It’s actually quite impressive when you think about it—finding someone like Marica Marić who never even cracked open a parenting book, yet somehow raised two children to be responsible, happy, and fulfilled adults. What exactly are we supposed to make of that?
Based on what you've said, she seems to have less insight into parenting than you do, given that you've read through the entire section—but then again, you don't have kids of your own. 😕
Does having fifteen children automatically imply someone is unstable?
Fine, by your standards maybe, but not mine.
I think you're overgeneralizing the gap between theory and practice. I've already stated my position: there are parents who know everything, some who know a little, and some who know nothing. Similarly, there are non-parents who know a lot, a little, or absolutely nothing.
And then there are all the other endless variations of people and outliers.
To me, 😵 this kind of exclusivity is 🤣
silentpilot6 said:silentpilot6:Lawrence Wilson35 As follows:
Is setting boundaries and maintaining authority somehow viewed as an affront to someone else's dignity?😕
So, we're supposed to believe that authority is built through physical discipline?😢
I will strip away your self-awareness just to earn your respect.😲
It's just a classic power play.
We are teaching our children to respect rules and penalties rather than respecting people.
We often teach our children to be people who are controlled by external forces, allowing others to dictate the course of their lives. We instruct them to disregard their true selves, which ultimately prevents them from practicing self-respect and self-love.
When will we finally realize that the prosperity of our entire nation depends on the well-being of every single individual?
It only works if we learn to love and respect ourselves first; otherwise, we can't truly extend that same respect to others. The reverse simply doesn't work.
There is an alternative. Let’s stop kidding ourselves and quit making excuses just to satisfy our own hunger for power.
Do we actually want our children to respect sanctions, or should they be learning to respect us first?
Playing these kinds of power games in the recent past led to devastating consequences.
We have much to learn from them. |
It’s unbelievable... I feel like those belts around my waist have completely stripped away my sense of self and dragged my dignity through the dirt. Of course they have, but then again, maybe I don't even realize it myself.
I can't bring myself to respect or like them, much like anyone else who grew up dealing with physical discipline from their parents.
I feel like I’ve missed so much in this thread. 😵
I can't say for sure, because I don't know you or your family.
You haven't read much in this thread—at least not with an openness to learning or any sincere attempt at thinking for yourself.
And I hope you realize this isn't me "reprimanding" you; I simply believe it would be beneficial for anyone, including yourself, to actually use your own head.
You (or anyone else, for that matter) are perfectly entitled to think I'm wrong.🙂
I am stating what I personally believe to be true.
That doesn't mean it has to be true for everyone else.😉
silentpilot6 said:Genetics, environment, social circles—are we really saying none of that matters? Is the burden of everything falling solely on the parents? By that logic, if you have good, responsible parents, every child should turn out exactly the same. I’m not so sure about that...
Generally speaking, those without children don't truly understand parenting. They might know the theory "on paper," but we all know how much you can manipulate paper. It's like love. You can read 1,500 love poems or 250 romance novels, but until you actually fall in love, you have no idea what it feels like.
It’s the same with other things; you can look at photos, watch movies, or read all the textbooks you want, and you can daydream all day 😁 but until you actually experience sex, you don't truly know what it is. So why would raising children be any different?
It is entirely possible—in fact, it's the reality 😁—that someone with one or more children who hasn't read a single book on the subject knows far more about parenting than someone without kids who has studied an entire library dedicated to "child rearing." 😁... I will always trust hands-on experience over pure theory. No book can account for every unique situation, every different child, or every unexpected event.
I'm not saying theories are useless or shouldn't be studied, but paper can claim anything, whereas real life is almost always different from the textbook version 😬 of life... Therefore, claiming to know how to raise children when you don't have any (yes, I do this too 😁) is, to put it mildly, unprofessional. It's especially problematic when people use absolutes like, "I'll never..." Well, we'll see. 😁
Regarding the debate between theory and practice...
Personally, I think there is a mountain of parenting books out there that would serve better as kindling for a campfire at a weekend cabin. 🤣
To my own modest opinion, only Jasper Juul is relevant.
He is an eminent psychotherapist and family therapist with over thirty years of experience. He has traveled extensively through many countries, working with diverse families all over the world (including American families during turbulent times), authored several books on the family unit, and currently serves as the director of the renowned international family organization FamLab.
And he is a parent himself.
But sure, around here, we have those "perfect" parents—the infallible ones who believe they know best about everything simply because they happen to be parents. 🙄😛
This cynicism isn't a critique of parenting itself. Personally, I believe parenthood is one of the most beautiful things in the world. This is a critique of human arrogance, superficiality, narrow-mindedness, and inertia.
silentpilot6 said:I was hit with a belt maybe three or four times growing up, usually when I was doing something truly terrible. 😁 We eventually ended up with a dictatorship, heavy religious influence, Bush 😂 and a nation that’s just foolish and immature... honestly, it’s been everything.
How is a parent supposed to establish necessary authority if they can't find a way to compel a child toward certain behaviors? If no other methods work at all, what then? Do you just let them do whatever they want, or drag them to a therapist?
Look, time and time again... we don't live in an ideal world where every kid is good and where talking things out or setting boundaries always works. Some parents might not even know how to communicate or explain things... what are we supposed to do with them? Should they just give in and let a child do whatever pops into their head because modern child psychology is offended by any kind of physical discipline?
I'm not implying—and I know you'll jump on me for this, so I'll say it first—that every parent who occasionally uses physical discipline lacks other options. But what if there aren't any other ways? What if you have a little brat who is just incredibly defiant and arrogant? What then? Are you supposed to buy 23 different books and hunt through them for answers you might never actually find?
To go back to my dog, I tried training him using those "modern methods," and it failed miserably. After I disciplined him a few times with a rolled-up newspaper and made sure he understood the consequences, he stopped peeing in the house. Now... maybe I'm wrong, maybe I did something incorrectly, or maybe some dogs are just built in a way where nothing else "clicks." With all due respect, why can't people accept that there are certain children who simply won't understand anything else... at least not always, and not in every situation?
Is setting boundaries and maintaining authority now considered an attack on someone else's dignity?😕
So, we’re actually claiming that physical violence is the key to establishing authority now?😢
I’m going to dismantle your sense of self until the only thing left is the respect I demand from you.😲
A classic power play.
We’re teaching our kids to respect rules and penalties rather than respecting people. Is that really the foundation we want to build?
We are raising our children to be nothing more than puppets, conditioned to let the world dictate their every move. We teach them to suppress their true selves and ignore their own instincts. Is it any wonder they grow up without a shred of self-respect or self-love?
When will we finally grasp that the prosperity of an entire nation depends entirely on the well-being of every single individual?
It’s quite simple, really: if we don't have self-love and self-respect, how can we ever expect to offer any to others? The reverse just doesn't work.
There is an alternative. Let’s stop kidding ourselves and quit making excuses just to justify our own thirst for power.
Do we actually expect our children to respect sanctions when they don't even respect us?
Playing these kinds of power games in the recent past led to nothing but disastrous consequences. Why do we keep repeating the same mistakes?
We have a lot to learn from them.
silentpilot6 said:I don't have kids myself, but I spent some time living under the same roof as my sister, her husband, and their little boy. He wasn't a bad kid by nature, but he certainly had his moments where he’d act out just to see how far he could push his parents' boundaries... refusing to listen or stop what he was doing no matter what. To be honest, a quick swat was sometimes the only thing that worked, even though they tried everything else first. I’m just saying you really have to experience it before you can claim to know the answer.
I'm not suggesting that there aren't parents out there who have never laid a hand on their child... but it feels a bit naive when people without children weigh in on what kids are actually capable of 😁. Similarly, you might have a "golden child" who is an absolute saint and never does anything to warrant discipline 😁, whereas other parents might think they have an angel, only to find out they're dealing with a little terror...
Parents create the little devils.😉
And parents create the little angels.😉😍
But of course, in our hypocritical society, we love to say: if the kids are good, it's because the parents are wonderful; but if the kids are "naughty," then the blame lies solely with the children.
The parent is always, absolutely always, responsible for the interaction between parent and child.
As for whether or not one has children...
We live in a culture that loves to generalize, which leads to that tired argument: only people with kids know anything about parenting.😂
Sure, if you believe that a massive number of parents who physically, sexually, or psychologically abuse their children 😲—do they really "know" anything about parenting? 🙄😉
Let's be realistic: there are parents who know a lot, some who know a little, and some who know nothing at all.
And there are people who aren't parents who know a lot, some who know a little, and some who know nothing at all.
And one more thing: parental love is meaningless unless it's backed up by actions that children actually respect and find non-harmful. It’s obvious that any "love" used to justify violence carries incredibly destructive consequences. What’s perhaps less obvious is that many traditional parenting styles involve behaviors that lack both love and respect, even when they are supposedly done "out of love."
JASPER JUUL
Violence is violence—whether it is psychological or physical, whether it is inflicted on a woman, a man, a child, or an animal.
When discussing physical abuse against children in the US, people talk about "spanking." In Northern Europe, they call it "slapping." In other places, they might use even more euphemistic terms to soften the blow. But regardless of how different cultures choose to label it, the reality remains unchanged: it is all just different names for the same thing—VIOLENCE.
I suspect that when people attempt to justify "discipline," what they are actually doing is trying to justify themselves, the families they were raised in, or the political and religious regimes that shaped them.
And frankly, it isn't surprising. Their logic usually follows this pattern: "My parents hit me with a belt a few times and I turned out fine; I grew up to be a decent person, and I still love my parents."
And truly, we shouldn't necessarily blame our parents for those moments of physical discipline; they were simply doing the best they knew how to do at the time.
However, we know better today. We understand that violence is unacceptable, and therefore, we must reflect and learn from the mistakes of previous generations.
We know that the situation is far more complex than the simplistic argument: "My parents hit me occasionally, so I turned out okay."
We recognize that a child is a human being from birth—a concept that wasn't universally accepted even twenty years ago in many parts of the world. From this, a simple logic follows: if we wouldn't strike our partners, why should we ever strike our children?
To those who argue that an adult possesses a formed personality while a child does not: tell me, does that give us permission to hit them? I will say this to such people: whether adult or child, Black or White, male or female—every single human being possesses DIGNITY. Whether it is a spanking, a slap, pulling an ear, or constant criticism, that dignity is being stripped away. EVERY HUMAN BEING HAS DIGNITY.
Today, we understand that every individual is unique and reacts differently. Some may have been hit multiple times and appear unaffected, while others might be haunted by a single instance for their entire lives. Are we really willing to gamble and experiment with our own children?
We also know that children are fully competent beings who cooperate with their parents in two distinct ways: directly or inversely. Both are forms of COOPERATION—the act of sending a message to a parent that something is wrong. In cases of violence, some children cooperate directly by rebelling, becoming aggressive, defiant, stubborn, or hysterical; essentially, they become destructive or self-destructive. Others cooperate inversely by withdrawing, enduring the abuse, becoming passive, and eventually believing they deserve the treatment or that violence is normal as long as it comes from someone stronger. Again, they become destructive or self-destructive.
Regardless of the philosophy used to defend it, the most critical fact is this: every time we use violence against a child, we strip away a piece of their SELF-ESTEEM—their fundamental realization that they have inherent value simply by existing.
Perhaps because we struck them, our children might not grow up to be alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, or depressed individuals. Perhaps they won't turn to suicide, theft, or prostitution; perhaps they will love and respect us. MAYBE. But one thing is certain:
Every form of violence—regardless of the flag under which it is waved, the name it is given, or the "justification" provided—communicates to a child that they are not worthy. In doing so, we violate a basic human right: the RIGHT TO DIGNITY.
Through every episode of violence, children learn that they are worth less and less.
By using violence, we create individuals who lack self-love and self-respect, and who are irresponsible toward their own lives. This inevitably leads to a lack of respect for others and irresponsibility toward society as a whole.
Through violence, we mold personalities that are controlled by external forces, when our goal should be to raise people who are capable of being themselves.
There is no need to condemn our parents; they were once children too, raised in their own way. Even in modern democratic societies, patriarchal undertones remain. Imagine how difficult it was for our parents living under the regimes they grew up in.
Criticism isn't the point; reflection is.
We must step outside of social norms, outdated rules, and rigid frameworks, because our children deserve nothing less.
We must liberate ourselves from superficial, arrogant, and imposed attitudes and start thinking for OURSELVES. We need to think deeply about what is right, rather than settling for shallow conclusions.
I’ll admit, it’s an uphill battle. Swimming against the current is exhausting when traditionalism still runs so deep in America; you end up risking social stigma just for trying something different, especially when there aren't even any role models to look up to.
What’s more, it feels like we have to reinvent the very concept of parenting from scratch, which is incredibly difficult.
But I truly believe the effort pays off.
In a household where individual identity is respected and every single person is treated with equal dignity, everyone wins—both the children and the parents.
The alternative? When there is violence or coercion, nobody comes out happy.
Parenting isn't a one-way street from parent to child; it flows both ways.
It’s a reciprocal process where everyone involved is learning.
We need to actually observe our children instead of resorting to force, because they will tell us everything we need to know. Children are inherently social creatures—is there anything more "social" than sending a message to someone else that they are hurting us??!
Let’s try to look past those shallow, arrogant, stagnant views that suggest corporal punishment is some kind of divine necessity.
Some people argue that today’s kids are too rebellious or aggressive because they’ve been raised in "democratic" households... and honestly, I agree.
Those are the children of parents who gave them everything they wanted, centered their entire lives around their kids, and lost themselves in the process. Kids actually need their parents. (Rebellion and aggression are often just cries for cooperation). Children usually know what they want, but they rarely know what they actually need. What they need is parental guidance built on mutual respect: I respect myself, and I respect others.
Sorry for the long post... this topic hits close to home.