Posts by Bradley Hayes36

So if we’re all agreeing that a scam is inherently wrong from the jump, does that mean there’s such a thing as a "justified" deception—one where a bad act somehow spirals into something good? Take a scenario where Joe swindles Mark, then Pero swindles Joe just to snatch Mark’s money back and return it... does Pero actually view his own betrayal as a righteous act, or is it something else entirely, and how would some neutral observer even begin to judge that mess...
I mean, honestly, it probably just depends on who you ask
I get that the word "scam" carries this built-in negativity right out of the gate, but sometimes the bad stuff is woven into the good, and vice versa... you can't just look at everything through a black-and-white lens
I guess...

Mark Torres14 said:👍excellent Quote

In my opinion, to pull off a perfect scam—meaning the victim has no idea they've been conned, because once they realize it, it's not a scam anymore—you have to be incredibly sharp.

What defines a perfect scam? The victim stays clueless, or the whole thing is executed so smoothly it looks totally legitimate.😁

It's also impossible for a person to cheat themselves. They can make mistakes or think differently, but they can't deceive themselves.

I agree, though we don't necessarily have to be right. Right now, I can't wrap my head around self-deception, but reality is messier than that. The line isn't that clear. It’s more like a gray area.

This is my first post, so sorry for quoting like this; I didn't quite catch where you were heading with this.

You'll manage. Every journey starts with a single step.

So, what's your definition of a scam?

It seems important to me. But I'm not ready to commit to a formal definition just yet.

Are you talking about the mental state required to not feel guilty when you cheat someone (conscience), or are you talking about how we constantly shift our focus toward a goal or interest? Please clarify.

I'm on a tiny laptop, so typing is a pain. I can't get away from my kids to use my other computers.
Good catch on the connection between cheating and conscience.
It's funny how our conscience eats at us when we cheat a person, but when we trick an animal (like a baboon), we find it amusing. It implies that conscience is purely a cultural construct.

Conscience doesn't give a damn about cheating someone else... it only kicks in when you do something that fails your own internal bullshit standards. I could be a complete lunatic and decide that murder is actually a righteous act, and if my own twisted logic says it’s fine, my conscience wouldn't feel a single thing...
It’s like that old story about Robin Hood... he’s nothing but a thief, yet everyone sides with him, even himself, because he’s convinced his own brand of chaos is actually doing some kind of good...

Mark Torres14 said:👍excellent Quote

In my opinion, to pull off a perfect scam—meaning the victim has no idea they've been conned, because once they realize it, it's not a scam anymore—you have to be incredibly sharp.

What defines a perfect scam? The victim stays clueless, or the whole thing is executed so smoothly it looks totally legitimate.😁

It's also impossible for a person to cheat themselves. They can make mistakes or think differently, but they can't deceive themselves.

I agree, though we don't necessarily have to be right. Right now, I can't wrap my head around self-deception, but reality is messier than that. The line isn't that clear. It’s more like a gray area.

This is my first post, so sorry for quoting like this; I didn't quite catch where you were heading with this.

You'll manage. Every journey starts with a single step.

So, what's your definition of a scam?

It seems important to me. But I'm not ready to commit to a formal definition just yet.

Are you talking about the mental state required to not feel guilty when you cheat someone (conscience), or are you talking about how we constantly shift our focus toward a goal or interest? Please clarify.

I'm on a tiny laptop, so typing is a pain. I can't get away from my kids to use my other computers.
Good catch on the connection between cheating and conscience.
It's funny how our conscience eats at us when we cheat a person, but when we trick an animal (like a baboon), we find it amusing. It implies that conscience is purely a cultural construct.

If the victim doesn't even realize they’ve been taken for a ride, then calling it a scam is a stretch... because if you can make a fraud look like a legitimate deal, it could pass for anything at all. But once you actually realize you've been played, that's when the whole thing falls apart and the con truly fails...

So, we’re back to playing philosopher again, I guess... which means we're talking about deception, three people involved, and this whole mess. Now, you think you managed to pull one over on me? Honestly, I didn't even realize I was being played, but if Mark looks at this as a neutral observer, there isn't any actual payoff for anyone yet... not right now, anyway. In that exact moment, sure, the scam worked. But five minutes later, Mark could just turn to me and say, "Hey, you got cheated," and suddenly the whole thing falls apart. He could stay silent forever and the scam stays successful, or he could go straight to you, tell you what happened, and suggest you split the loot fifty-fifty, and the scam still technically works... but the fact that you're feeling the squeeze of blackmail right now? You can thank Mark for that...

So, I went back and reworked this post... tweaked the angle, expanded my thoughts about five times over just to make sure I actually said what I meant...

To pull off a real scam, you need actual intelligence, wit, and a functioning brain...
Baboon pulled it off because he was smart, which doesn't mean that if he ever hits a situation
like the one rustymaker5 described just now—say his mother passes away and he gets kicked out on the street—that he won't find a way to survive...
Because being unintelligent is basically an inability to adapt, whereas the opposite means you'll figure it out, and clearly those students and professors involved in that Forbes scandal weren't quite smart enough to fleece the government successfully.
In my view, to execute a perfect scam—meaning the victim has no idea they've been had, because once they realize it, the game is over—you have to be incredibly sharp...
And it’s impossible to truly scam yourself; you can make mistakes or misinterpret things, but you can't actually deceive yourself...

"It would be interesting to consider the level at which human consciousness exists. As a whole entity connected to the future (a constant 'deception'), as an entity existing in the present that only utilizes imagined future scenarios when an interest arises, or is the human mind constantly in the future because perceiving a frozen present is simply impossible."

This is my first post here, so sorry for quoting you like this, I just didn't really grasp where you were going with that...
What exactly defines a scam to you?

Are you talking about the kind of mental makeup someone needs so they don't feel guilty after conning someone (conscience), or are you saying we're always thinking ahead, and when we have a goal or an interest, we just redirect our thoughts toward fulfilling it? Please clarify...