46 posts shown.
Joseph Young57 said:If you really want to get a grip on how herd mentality works, just take a look at Right-wing America.☕
Carol Cook59 said:I consider pedophiles to be sick, as do those who cover up for criminals, and even the parents who, after everything we've learned, still leave their children alone in the church—essentially handing them over to predators.
Lisa Walker31 said:This is the part that really gets me. This guy isn't even afraid of God. To him, God just wipes everything clean without a second thought.
So, if he thinks society won't come after him... then he feels like he's got absolutely nothing to worry about, right?
Bryan Kern7 said:I didn't know about that, and my friend didn't even know he had done that to her sister. To be honest, the victim was an 11-year-old girl, so she was younger than both of us, and her family didn't find out until two or three months later because they didn't notice any symptoms right away. The little girl started acting very withdrawn, wetting the bed, waking up screaming... so they took her to a psychologist, but she still wouldn't say anything. It wasn't until one day when her sister told my story, confessing that the same thing had happened to her—except he managed to rape her😢. At first, they reached out to the head of the church and wrote letters, even to the Archbishop, from what she told me. As for the police, I think they said they weren't believed because so many months had passed that it couldn't be proven
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That girl still sees a psychiatrist to this day. And after everything the Church threatened them with, it wasn't even surprising to her that they just move him from parish to parish, though he gets a different name in every single one—in one he’s Father Joseph, in another Father Anthony, and so on.
Even though he didn't physically succeed with me, because I was a bit older and knew a few things, the psychological part is still the absolute worst. You end up blaming yourself, and that feeling of total helplessness in the moment... that panic that grips you when you have no idea what to do, just trying to figure out how to get out of the situation.
Because that priest was young and charming; he wasn't physically repulsive like some men, and that’s the worst part of all. That day, I went to the parish office—which is only ten meters from the church and has soundproofing so you can't hear anything inside the church—to get a baptismal certificate. When I walked into the office, that priest was there along with an older man. He handed me the baptismal book to look through, and while I was sitting there leafing through that massive book, the older priest left, and this guy locked the door and pulled out the key... I saw it out of the corner of my eye. In that split second, all I could think about was how to get out. I knew screaming wouldn't help. It's just that feeling of standing on the edge of a cliff.
I tried to concentrate and acted like everything was normal while he issued the certificate, stamped it, and then acted like he was going to walk me out. As he approached the door and I stood behind him waiting—hoping maybe he would actually open the door—he turned around, grabbed me with both arms, and said he had locked us in so no one else would disturb us and that no one outside could hear a thing... as if we were completely alone.
I told him I was in a hurry to get to school and asked him to let me go, but he just said he was only a friend and wanted what was best for me. Then he asked me if we were good friends. In that moment, I just played along because, honestly, I didn't have another choice. I wasn't six feet tall with a razor, and he was a huge guy, like 6'0", who always bragged about working out every day and playing soccer; he was way stronger than me. So, I told him we were friends. After that, he gave this little smirk and said if we were friends, then I should kiss him on the cheek, because that's what friends do, and that even Jesus did it. All the while, he kept me held tight in his arms, and with one hand, he was touching my back and my neck... I asked him what would happen if I didn't want to kiss him on the cheek, and he said we'd just have to play in a slightly different way. I saw this flash of a psychopath in his eyes, but he kept speaking in that calm, sweet, gentle voice with a smile on his face... I had no choice, so I kissed him on the cheek.
Then he goes and says it's just "the second kiss," and I actually did it—then he claims that true friends kiss each other on the mouth. While his hand was sliding down my backside and trying to shove itself between my legs, something inside me just snapped. I somehow managed to wiggle out of it, even though he had me pinned against the door with his arms wrapped around me, and I was stuck right between his legs. He was holding me tight, trapping me with his legs too. So, while I kept telling him I had to hurry to school or I’d be late, I slowly raised my knee and pressed it right against his groin—his penis was basically crushed against me because he was rubbing it against me so hard. I told him, with a smile on my face and trying not to panic, that if he didn't let me go, I'd be forced to use my knee. He scowled at me and said, "Oh, I didn't know you did martial arts," then mentioned his keys were in his right pocket. I kept my knee clamped firmly against his junk the whole time, grabbed the keys, unlocked the door, and bolted as fast as my legs could carry me...
So that’s my story. It wasn't a full-blown rape, but he absolutely groped me with his hands, rubbed himself all over me (he was wearing a robe, obviously), and left me feeling incredibly dirty, ashamed, and sick to my stomach.
I've noticed that since that day, I can't stand it when people get too close or invade my personal space; it triggers an immediate panic attack. I'm also completely allergic to being touched or poked, which is a huge issue with my partner, but luckily he's understanding about it... Honestly, even today, whenever I remember that feeling, I break out in a cold sweat, especially if someone gives me a firm hug...
Bryan Kern7 said:Yeah, unfortunately, I've noticed that a lot of people just don't grasp how heavy their crimes actually are.
This happened to me sixteen years ago, and honestly, I still replay every single moment of it in my head. It completely flipped my life upside down. Back then, you just didn't talk about this stuff. To be blunt, I hadn't even heard the word pedophilia before; I had no clue what it even meant. Times have changed, obviously. Everything is out there on the internet now, and more kids are aware of the issue. I can find information or look for help whenever I need it, but even with all that access, some people still stubbornly refuse to admit the problem exists or how widespread it really is. And when someone goes through this, their first instinct is to stay quiet and feel ashamed. They end up thinking they’re the ones at fault, and of course, nobody wants to believe them because they're just a child.
Bryan Kern7 said:I noticed that not a single victim has spoken up on this thread yet, so I guess I'll go first.
When I was thirteen, a priest in my parish tried to rape me. I feel incredibly lucky that he didn't succeed in what he was planning... but I later found out he was doing this constantly. My then-friend's sister was one of his victims, too. When her family actually tried to report him, they were met with a warning from the Church stating that if they went through with it, they would be excommunicated and branded for life. I don't know if they eventually reached some kind of settlement to keep their mouths shut, but that was the threat.
The priest was young, maybe around thirty, and he had been hired to teach religion at the local elementary school. It wasn't until several girls and their families complained to the principal about him touching them inappropriately that he finally lost his job and was transferred to a different parish.
I heard that in that second parish, he tried the same thing with another girl, but her father handled it in a much more "direct" way since the Church refused to do anything. He beat the man like a dog, after which the priest was shuffled off to yet another parish.
The last time I saw him was during a papal visit in Los Angeles; he was still in his priestly robes. He actually recognized me and had the nerve to praise me, mentioning how well things were going in his new parish.
After that, it hit me: the Church is never going to change. They will always protect their own, no matter the cost.
An experience like that absolutely destroys a child and leaves a mark that lasts a lifetime. When you're a kid and you believe in a priest—someone you confess to, someone you truly see as a representative of God's will on earth—once that trust is broken, nothing is ever the same again.
Of course, they are humans and sinners just like everyone else, but when you're a child, you don't see it that way. You can't even fathom that they are capable of such things. And you can bet your life that a parent's last thought would ever be to let their child be alone with a priest, because they know he could absolutely wreck them.
Bottom line: we need much stricter punishments for pedophilia. Honestly, the Pope should consider allowing priests to marry; that might solve at least part of the problems that stem from celibacy.
George Morgan3 said:In second grade at Elementary School, we're basically just testing reading comprehension.
George Morgan3 said:Ah, Galileo...Academic Paar: Back then, the Church was actually home to plenty of theologians and astronomers who believed the Earth moved—just as many others believed the exact opposite. Towering above all of them was Cardinal Robert Bellarmine. He’s famous for spearheading that first trial against Galileo, sure, but he was also someone who demanded actual scientific evidence during his debates. Honestly, the whole idea that he was some narrow-minded fanatic is a total misconception; the man was an astronomer himself and—this part is rarely mentioned—he studied astronomy at the very same university as Galileo Galileo. Based on the case documents I’ve poured over, Bellarmine actually told Galileo that the Church would be perfectly fine accepting the idea of a moving Earth, provided he could produce hard scientific proof. But here's the kicker: Galileo didn't have that proof. That’s the entire crux of the story. Instead, he leaned heavily on theological arguments—which, let's face it, he was quite skilled at, given he was a formidable theologian in his own right. Of course, things got messy when they got tangled up in various theological disputes, Protestant interference attacking Church doctrine for being revisionist, and all sorts of other factors that had absolutely nothing to do with science. Furthermore, it's little known that Galileo was a personal friend of Pope Paul V; he’d visit frequently, and the two would spend entire afternoons strolling through the gardens, deep in discussion, because the Pope himself was deeply fascinated by scientific inquiry. Therefore, everything most people think they know about the "Galileo affair"—all those textbook versions we've been fed for years—is essentially a historical fabrication. Galileo acted strictly as a man of the Church, yet he wanted the Church to shift its theological stances, which is really the heart of the matter. It was in this spirit that the late Pope John Paul II stepped forward in 1992 to rehabilitate Galileo, noting that while the Church was wrong to exercise judicial authority, it was actually correct regarding the lack of Galileo's scientific evidence. Today, the Church also acknowledges that Galileo was right to move away from a literal theological interpretation. So, what we really saw was one of history's most fascinating intellectual clashes between two thinkers, Galileo and Bellarmine. Most modern scientific studies now agree: Bellarmine was right on the scientific front since Galileo lacked the data, but Galileo was right on the theological interpretation side.
By the way, during the four days of the trial, he was housed in a manor house with nine servants.
George Morgan3 said:But let’s be real—it was actually the priests who were the scientists and the architects behind almost all the scientific theories that modern atheists now swear by... everything from the Big Bang to evolution...
Betty Foster5 As I was saying:
Look, I know I’m veering off on a tangent here, but I can’t help myself. I’ve been sitting here thinking about why pedophilia—not to mention the sexual abuse of the mentally disabled or animals—is treated with such specific weight in these discussions. It’s a heavy topic, but it deserves a direct look. I've been thinking about this more lately, and honestly, it just gets under my skin how much people try to gloss over the details. It’s one thing to talk about history in a textbook, but it’s another thing entirely when you realize how deep the systemic issues actually go. I remember sitting in a coffee shop back in Chicago, reading some old reports, and it hit me—this isn't just some isolated mistake from the past. It's a pattern. It's a way of doing things that prioritizes the institution over everything else, even when it's clearly wrong. You see it happening again and again, where the rules they set up for themselves end up being used to shield themselves rather than protect anyone. It makes you wonder how much of what we consider "truth" is actually just whatever the powers that be decided was acceptable at the time. It's infuriating. No punishment? Are you kidding me? Why the hell not?😠
Grace Jones86 said:Bullshit.
Traditional morality is anti-moral. When traditional morality is embraced, it brings about spiritual death. (And when I say "spiritual," I am referring to mental processes).
Therefore, you cannot claim something is merely the ruin of a concept and then argue that they are no longer authorities on it. The proclaimed morality of the Church has always been completely disconnected from reality, which is why people—including the clergy—have largely avoided it.
Furthermore, the very idea of an "authority" is flawed. True authority lies in reason, life, happiness, and fundamental human rights. Authority vested in a person or an organization never made much sense to begin with.
Even if this is off-topic... but fine... let's expand on this "church problem" 🙄 if we are going to talk seriously about the church and its associated phenomena.
George Morgan3 said:The idea that "offense is the best defense" doesn't work when you aren't even defending yourself against anything;😉
rather, you're just refusing to see the distinction. This thread—which has a pretty vague title and deals with a widespread deviant phenomenon—is being aimed at one specific institution and profession with some sort of twisted logic (if you can even call it that), turning them into the sole scapegoat. It’s becoming painfully obvious that all these attacks on the church have less and less to do with pedophilia or sexual abuse, and more and more with becoming an end in themselves.
wearyhawk273 said:signature
mistyjackal14 said:If I’ve somehow missed the mark here, please, do correct me, because I am more than willing to admit when I've made a mistake.
I honestly can’t recall a single instance where the Catholic Church actually stepped up to report one of its own—priests or otherwise—to the authorities for any kind of criminal offense. Are we really supposed to believe that within the halls of the Church there aren't thieves, murderers, rapists, or perjurers, and that the only issue anyone ever talks about is pedophilia? It seems a bit much to suggest that such a wide array of sins simply doesn't exist within those institutions, doesn't it?
There really is a difference, isn't there?
I never really saw the connection before, and honestly, I still struggle to see how one isolated incident can be used to represent the massive, systemic issue of pedophilia on a global scale. Does one single case truly reflect the broader reality?
It really feels like a given at this point, doesn't it, when you're already working with something as simplified as that? Is there anything more profound than the pursuit of what is truly righteous? I often find myself wandering through these thoughts, wondering if we can ever truly grasp the weight of being a good person in such a complicated world. It feels like we are all just drifting, searching for that moral compass that points true north, isn't it? Sometimes I think about how much effort it takes to maintain integrity when the path of least resistance is always right there, tempting us to take the easy way out. But then again, what is life without those quiet moments of choosing the harder, more honorable road? Is righteousness an inherent quality we are born with, or is it something we have to build, brick by brick, through every small decision we make? It’s a heavy thing to contemplate, really, but I find myself returning to it constantly. It seems like that typical kind of anger, the sort you see all too often with people who just can't handle anything a bit more profound, so they get defensive when someone actually tries to look beneath the surface. Is it really so hard for some folks to grasp a deeper perspective without feeling personally attacked?
Just so you have this for yourself:
It makes me wonder, does anyone else feel this profound sense of revulsion toward those individuals who hide behind children—and worse, exploit children—just to push their own shallow, low-level political agendas? It’s a level of manipulation that feels so fundamentally hollow, so devoid of actual substance, that I find myself struggling to even view them as fellow human beings. Is there any greater betrayal of innocence than using a child as a shield for petty, everyday partisan interests?
Does anyone else ever get that sudden, unsettling feeling where you look at someone and just see this dark, twisted potential, like they’re the kind of person who would go out of their way to open an orphanage just to have a front-row seat to abuse children? It’s such a heavy, disturbing thought to carry around, isn't it? I can't quite shake the sense that some people possess this terrifying capacity to build entire institutions under the guise of charity, all while harboring intentions that are nothing short of predatory. It makes you wonder about the masks people wear and how easily a monster can hide behind a facade of compassion.
Let’s be clear about where we stand here, because I really don't want there to be any misunderstanding between us. Like I mentioned before, I'm not actually putting you in that specific category; if I had to describe you, I'd say you're more like a typical consumer—someone who just goes along with the flow and takes what's offered—rather than one of those people I was talking about. It isn't meant to be an insult, mind you, because I don't think you're a bad person at all.
Here is my take on the relationship between the Church and pedophilia:
Is it possible that while the Catholic Church views pedophilia as one of its most devastating crises, they aren't actually the primary drivers behind the issue itself? I find myself wondering if we are looking at the situation through too narrow a lens, focusing so intently on the institution that we miss the broader societal currents at play. Could it be that the Church is simply caught in a storm that was already brewing in the world around it, rather than being the sole architect of the tragedy? It’s a heavy thought to sit with, isn't it, to consider whether an organization can be both deeply wounded by a problem and simultaneously disconnected from its fundamental origins?
I’m hoping I don't really need to go into any further detail or explain myself, because I suspect the core of the matter is already quite clear to everyone here, isn't it?
And honestly, it makes me wonder... how much can one person truly hold in balance? As much as I respect the Catholic Church, and as much as I genuinely believe it serves as a beacon of hope for this world, there is a heavy, quiet truth that sits at the back of my mind. If I were ever faced with the impossible choice—if I had to decide whether to preserve that light or to burn it all down just to ensure that children were finally safe from the horrors of pedophilia and every other kind of abuse—would I hesitate? Could I really look at those innocent lives and choose an institution over them? Even if I believe in its goodness, if destroying the Church was the only way to save our children from such darkness, would I be the one to strike the match tomorrow?
mistyjackal14 said:@bluemarlin19
Tell me what you think after processing that specific part that really struck a chord with you—the one you shared with us earlier.
Have you found yourself wondering if the fight should be directed at pedophilia itself, or against the Church, or perhaps you see the two as being inextricably linked together?
And did it ever cross your mind, once you heard all of that, to maybe start some kind of movement to ban those diaper commercials featuring babies?