Posts by Jonathan Wells2

Michael Morgan5, my bad. You’re totally right! $30 is a massive chunk of change, but if you have to drive all the way over to Austria twice just to make it work, then what?

The first trip is just to save maybe $10 on the purchase itself.
Then you have to make a second trip just to try and get a better price when you sell it—though I didn't even bother checking that specific price gap.

So, when you factor in the highway tolls and the extra gas from dodging the main roads, I honestly don't think it's worth the hassle of trying to save a few bucks on vignettes.

But hey, look, everyone does their own math and has their own take on things, and I'm just saying that for me, the numbers just don't add up.

I'm not going to drag this debate out any further because there's really no point in arguing.

Michael Morgan5 said:Thanks.
An $8 price difference isn't worth it when you factor in the hit I'll take on the currency conversion; for me, the US is the obvious first choice here.

I'm asking because I’m still weighing whether I should pull the trigger and sell now or just hold steady until March.

I honestly don't follow you at all—where do you live, where do you work, and what currency are you actually getting paid in?

I mean, if you get paid in dollars, convert them to euros, and then have to deal with the exchange rate back to dollars again, of course the conversion fees make it expensive! 😵

Unless you’re operating entirely within California and selling your services or products in euros, you’re basically an outlier here.

Here is how I see the math playing out:
Canada toll - $38
Austria toll - $20
Gas - $133
Car depreciation - $67
Time spent driving - $167

Total cost - $425

Even if we toss that last time factor out the window, you're still looking at a massive $258 loss!

Look, maybe you're buying gold bullion by the pound, but if you're a regular person just picking up a few ounces here and there, I truly don't see how anyone could justify driving all the way to Austria for it!
But none of that even matters since you mentioned whether they ask for ID—which implies you're buying less than $10,000 worth of gold when heading to Austria. Again, your math is completely broken to me.

I get why gold might be 0.5% higher here in the States; that's just the cost of shipping goods to America. And frankly, who cares, because the price of gold could jump significantly in the time it takes me to drive to Austria. You really expect a sane person to waste an entire day driving to Austria just to save 0.5% on coins or maybe 0.2% or 0.3% on 100-gram bars?

Please, walk me through your logic here.

Michael Morgan5 said:So, how much are they actually paying per ounce at the Philharmonic Orchestra?
Are they cutting checks in dollars or something else?
Do they demand to see an ID?
And is there a cap on how much they'll buy back from you?

So I just checked, and it looks like the spread for a Philharmonic Orchestra musician at the Federal Reserve versus Vienna is about 8 bucks. I didn't actually ask about the payment method, but obviously, you'd be using dollars since we're here in the States, otherwise, it would basically be illegal!
They did ask me for my ID because the amount was over $2500, but honestly, I don't get why people get so worked up about showing an ID. If you're some kind of criminal, sure, you'd be sweating about where to dump dirty money, but if you're legit, there's nothing to worry about since there isn't some master list tracking exactly who bought how much gold. The only exception is if you're buying through $67 (though I might have the amount wrong).
I didn't ask about a buyback limit, so you'll have to hit them up directly for that, but I'm assuming there isn't one. All I know is they don't pull that annoying routine where they care whether you bought the stuff from them or from a competitor.

Arthur Reed said:Greetings, everyone. I hope you are all doing well.
I am looking for some insight regarding the pricing at the branch in Washington, D.C. (https://www.ophirum.de/de/shop). How does it compare to what we are seeing currently in the States? I have already checked Bank of America and Morgan, but I worry I might be overlooking another major distributor.
Also, is there any issue with transporting gold via plane within the U.S. without incurring extra fees?
Thank you in advance.

I usually just go through the Federal Reserve because their prices are barely even higher than what you find in Germany, so honestly, it isn't even worth paying for shipping, let alone driving all the way up there. I actually swung by Vienna once when I was passing through Denver because they were advertising a sale on one-ounce coins, but after all that, it turned out they didn't have anything from the promotion in stock—it was all special order only.

I picked some stuff up from Mary too, but since they left the US, their prices have become way more expensive than the other guys.

But if you want to talk about a total scam, look no further than Goldman Sachs! They claim free shipping for the US, but the second you select your location, the price jumps right up in your face! He he

Look, you guys can't just lump physical gold, gold CFDs, and gold ETFs into one big bucket and try to figure out which one is "cheaper" because they aren't even the same damn thing!

1. Physical Gold (passive investing)—this is your long-term play. It’s perfect for people who aren't looking for some insane, overnight moonshot, but rather a rock-solid way to hold value outside of the traditional banking system.

2. Gold CFDs (active trading)—these are strictly for short-term speculation. If you think you're going to hold a CFD for more than a few months, you’re basically just lighting money on fire paying those massive interest rates that dwarf any physical gold spread. Honestly, most people playing with CFDs end up getting wiped out because they start making stupid decisions almost immediately.

3. Gold ETFs (active trading)—these are mostly used by big institutional players to hedge their massive physical holdings or for slightly longer speculative bets. Again, when amateurs jump in trying to speculate, they usually just end up losing their shirts.

It all boils down to what your actual goal is! If you’re just looking for a quick gamble, don't even bother looking at physical gold, but if you're someone trying to preserve wealth over the long haul through passive investing, then physical is really your only real option.

It shouldn't be a shock that the vast majority of people lose money through active trading. Even the standard risk disclaimers you see from brokers claim that 80% of people lose money within their first year, and we all know how easily those numbers can be massaged, so the real percentage of losers is probably much higher. It honestly baffles me when people take every cent they've ever saved and dump it into speculative instruments without a second thought, only to act completely surprised when they lose it all. And of course, they always find someone else to blame—the broker, some analyst, Trump, or Brexit!

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy speculating too, but if I don't have at least four hours a day to sit down and actually dissect the market, I'm not touching a single trade. Besides, I stick to that old rule of thumb that at least a third of my net worth should stay tucked away in physical gold.

Jeremy Jackson2 said:I could really use some advice here. So, JP Morgan Chase basically killed the interest rate on our kid's savings account, and now we’re just sitting here with this lump sum for our little one and nowhere to go with it. The plan is to have them use it after they turn 18—maybe to start a small business or head off to college—so we definitely want to keep saving and setting money aside. But I'm honestly stuck on what to do with the $33333 we've already tucked away. Right now, it's just sitting in a bank account earning absolutely zero percent. I was looking into buying a half-kilo gold bar? But then I started wondering... how can you even be sure they’re giving you real gold? Maybe it’s better to get several smaller pieces instead, so you could actually test each one on the spot if you had to... I don't know. Housing savings plans and life insurance feel so abstract to me, and I'm really not looking to take out a loan, unless maybe for something short-term like 3 to 5 years.

I've been looking directly at these links here and I noticed some differences right off the bat,
On one site, for a half-kilo bar, it's untaxed $17,500.00 * $17,250.00
But over at Gold Standard, a half-kilo is $17,141.26 vs $17,723.43
Based on this, it seems like a better deal to go through Gold Standard, assuming the quality of the bar is the same—it says 999 purity, right?

Philosopher, in the US, the best price is at Bank of America - 17710 euros buy and 17243 euros sell.

My suggestion is to stick to smaller bars. Maybe call them up and ask for some actual advice. They told me exactly what to do right away. Even though you get a better price per gram when you're buying, the buyback rate is worse, so in the end, you might actually come out ahead by buying 100-gram bars instead.

So a buddy of mine comes up to me today rambling on about some outfit called PIM GOLD, claiming they’re out here selling gold bullion. He actually got stuck with one of their 1-gram bars as a gift and was looking to offload it. He called two different precious metals dealers just to check, and they both gave him the exact same answer—they won't touch it because it doesn't qualify as legitimate investment-grade bullion. Like, seriously, what the hell is going on?

We actually went out of our way to verify if they even hold an LBMA certification, and guess what? They aren't listed anywhere on the official registry. It’s nothing more than selling smoke and mirrors to people who don't know any better!
Basically, you’re paying premium investment prices only to be forced to sell it back at scrap metal rates. It’s absolute madness.

Has anyone else run into these guys before?

hiddensailor14 said:When you look at the long game, picking up gold bars in those smaller increments—like the 20g pieces, an ounce, or maybe 50g—usually isn't as smart as just grabbing coins instead. And what about platinum? It’s sitting there looking pretty cheap compared to gold right now, which could mean some serious upside if it catches up... but then you have to factor in the sales tax, which really messes with your math.👎

It’s the exact same headache we deal with when it comes to silver, and I honestly can't wrap my head around why the USA hasn't scrapped the sales tax on all the other investment metals yet.

Michael Morgan5 said:1150 Federal Reserve compared to an 1131 Federal Reserve ask at the Vienna Philharmonic for an ounce—you really think a few bucks difference doesn't matter?

I’m looking at the numbers again and right now there's a 13 dollar gap—it's 1130 over in Austria versus 1143 at Goldman Sachs. And when I compare those prices against Germany, the spread is only about 2 or 3 dollars, depending on which shop you're checking in Germany.

I just want to point out that chasing a 13 dollar saving by ordering from abroad isn't worth it because the shipping costs will absolutely wreck you. Of course, if you happen to be driving through Austria for other business anyway, then sure, why not swing by and pick up a couple of musician pieces while you're at it.

Honestly, we’ve all spent way too much time arguing about the New York Philharmonic, but if you ask me, the new Maple Leaf is easily the best one out there. Yeah, it carries a higher premium, but since the buyback price is also better, you end up breaking even in the end.

Mark Sullivan62 said:So, I’ve been chewing on this for a bit—is there actually any meaningful distinction between getting gold bars from Brink's (Goldman Sachs) versus picking up some from Rockefeller? Like, does one brand carry more weight or prestige than the other, or am I just overthinking it? Basically, are these bars functionally identical in value, or is there some kind of hierarchy I should be worried about...

Honestly, I don't see much of a distinction other than the fact that you see Brink's being moved way more often in Canada and around here, which is probably why I personally feel a bit more comfortable with their stuff.
I did some digging into the pricing, and from what I can tell, Brink's (Goldman Sachs) is actually a better deal than the other guys. Sure, those other places run promotions now and then, but they still end up costing more than Goldman Sachs.

I also ran the numbers on bar prices comparing the Vienna Philharmonic (Federal Reserve instead of Associated Press) in Austria and Germany against Goldman Sachs, and I honestly don't get why anyone would bother buying abroad when the price gap is only a few bucks. Shipping a single ounce from Austria costs $45! In my opinion, unless you're planning to go pick up two kilograms of gold in person, you might as well just buy it locally.

I’ve dealt with Goldman Sachs a few times now and everything has gone smoothly. Naturally, I was a bit skeptical at first, which is why I ended up meeting with people down in Washington, D.C. to vet them, but after that, it’s been fine. From what I can tell, they keep plenty of stuff in stock, which is good. Even for those larger bars, you just have to give them a day's notice before picking them up, since it seems like they keep them tucked away in some bank vault somewhere outside the main part of Washington, D.C.

SmartFart, I really don't see why you'd need to go out of your way to find a dealer if they don't have exactly what you want sitting on the shelf right this second. If you look at the inventory levels for places like Goldman Sachs or Home Depot, keeping every single item in stock would require upwards of ten million dollars. It's the exact same situation with dealers in Austria. Actually, it isn't just Austria; it's the same in Germany or pretty much anywhere else. Sure, they’ll have small bars and coins ready to go, but if you try to order anything substantial, expect a five to ten-day wait for delivery. Keeping five kilos of gold on hand isn't a huge deal, but what if I specifically want five kilos in 1000g bars, and all they have are two 1000g ones and a bunch of 250g or 100g pieces? It's basically impossible, and honestly, it wouldn't even make financial sense for them to carry that much. Besides, if you're just looking at the cost of hedging with gold via Citadel, you're looking at maybe 2% annually, while their actual margin on those larger bars is less than 1%.

If you're serious about buying investment-grade gold, the principle is universal—you pay upfront and then they order the goods. I'm talking about the big orders here, obviously, not stuff under 10,000 $5.00, because let's be real, buying that little isn't exactly a "gold investment."

Home Depot is alright, but they seem more focused on buying back jewelry, and they end up being pricier than Goldman Sachs. It's the same story there too; their website claims everything is in stock, but when you actually ask, you find out you're waiting five to ten days. 🙂
I haven't personally used Morgan, but a friend of mine called them and said they were some Canadian crew who weren't exactly the friendliest people. He wanted a fifty-gram delivery, and the woman on the phone told him they never do mail delivery—only in-person pickup—so he just went through Goldman Sachs instead. Heh, that's actually why I ended up using them too. To me, they seem like the most professional outfit, especially since they have an app to track the value of your bars and coins. My only real gripe is that they didn't mention the app until much later by complete accident. They've buried that info so deep on their website that you'd never even know it exists unless they point it out to you.