Posts by Dennis Alvarez2

Susan James said:From everything I've peeked at in the Series, there is none of that info available.
The Series is great that it exists, but it needs to be interpreted by people who can see deeper than just raw numbers. Because, as I mentioned, you can interpret data however you want, and then you're right back to hearsay—just an illusion created by numbers.
It's a shame that the administration hasn't leveled the playing field; the folks at the Department of Education or various agencies aren't utilizing it enough, especially with the goal of improving the actual state of our schools. For instance, how is it possible that SAT scores and final grades in senior year differ so drastically in most schools? What does that tell us about the way tests are designed, about how grades are determined, or if it has anything to do with teacher turnover...

Though, I should add a massive disclaimer here: we are talking about grade inflation and unrealistic grading throughout elementary and middle school. There are just way too many A's overall (since not everyone can be perfect at everything), and then high school is chosen based on those exact same grades, presumably expecting kids to maintain that streak of straight A's through graduation. Plus, since SAT scores are shaped every year by the specific cohort taking them, the "objectivity" of those scores is also questionable. And when you look at the averages being used, they include everything from failing marks to perfect scores, and it makes a huge difference which grades are most common and how they shift the average. It would be wise to look at the number of F's, D's, and C's compared to the final grades... the administration really ought to look into that. The people designing the exams at the Department of Education should investigate, and it would be great if teachers looked at their own students' progress—whether through the Series or their own records (though I'm sure the good ones find out through other means). This should serve as a guide for them to either keep doing what they're doing or to start making changes.
The number of kids who jump from a 2 to a 5 in their final grade is incredibly small—though it does happen, and we actually have the data on it here in the Series. It works both ways, too. Personally, I don't think it's such a big deal if a child slips just one grade level above or below their average.

And let’s be real, the Series wasn't designed to be a tool for parents to pick out middle schools or high schools for their kids.
It’s easy to talk when a kid is right in the middle of the pack and fits in perfectly... but what happens when they hit a wall or drift way outside that average? What if you tell your child, "This prep school is perfect for you because they have the best scores on the SATs and the most consistent student averages," only for them to sit in a classroom, look around at their peers, and realize they just can't keep up? How does that impact their mental health? Who actually wants that for their child?
As you mentioned yourself, kids are already competing enough as it is...

That is the core issue right there. This information isn't being leveraged to move the education system forward at all; instead, it seems to exist merely as a way to prove that we've modernized our digital infrastructure.

Susan James said:From everything I've peeked at in the Series, there is none of that info available.
The Series is great that it exists, but it needs to be interpreted by people who can see deeper than just raw numbers. Because, as I mentioned, you can interpret data however you want, and then you're right back to hearsay—just an illusion created by numbers.
It's a shame that the administration hasn't leveled the playing field; the folks at the Department of Education or various agencies aren't utilizing it enough, especially with the goal of improving the actual state of our schools. For instance, how is it possible that SAT scores and final grades in senior year differ so drastically in most schools? What does that tell us about the way tests are designed, about how grades are determined, or if it has anything to do with teacher turnover...

Though, I should add a massive disclaimer here: we are talking about grade inflation and unrealistic grading throughout elementary and middle school. There are just way too many A's overall (since not everyone can be perfect at everything), and then high school is chosen based on those exact same grades, presumably expecting kids to maintain that streak of straight A's through graduation. Plus, since SAT scores are shaped every year by the specific cohort taking them, the "objectivity" of those scores is also questionable. And when you look at the averages being used, they include everything from failing marks to perfect scores, and it makes a huge difference which grades are most common and how they shift the average. It would be wise to look at the number of F's, D's, and C's compared to the final grades... the administration really ought to look into that. The people designing the exams at the Department of Education should investigate, and it would be great if teachers looked at their own students' progress—whether through the Series or their own records (though I'm sure the good ones find out through other means). This should serve as a guide for them to either keep doing what they're doing or to start making changes.
The number of kids who jump from a 2 to a 5 in their final grade is incredibly small—though it does happen, and we actually have the data on it here in the Series. It works both ways, too. Personally, I don't think it's such a big deal if a child slips just one grade level above or below their average.

And let’s be real, the Series wasn't designed to be a tool for parents to pick out middle schools or high schools for their kids.
It’s easy to talk when a kid is right in the middle of the pack and fits in perfectly... but what happens when they hit a wall or drift way outside that average? What if you tell your child, "This prep school is perfect for you because they have the best scores on the SATs and the most consistent student averages," only for them to sit in a classroom, look around at their peers, and realize they just can't keep up? How does that impact their mental health? Who actually wants that for their child?
As you mentioned yourself, kids are already competing enough as it is...

But who else was it intended for if not the general public? Honestly, I doubt anyone outside of the administration, the parents, and the students even cares about this data. 🤔 Otherwise, what criteria would you even use to determine if a school is truly high-quality and successful if not through data like this? While it's difficult to measure everything, this provides a significant amount of insight.

Children are incredibly sensitive, and so much impacts their mental well-being—everything from family dynamics and school environments to peer relationships and even the economic situation. Making the wrong choice regarding a school, a college, or a career path can be particularly devastating.

Kate Jackson4 said:Dennis Alvarez2, do you have the data on how many kids from a single grade took the SATs and which universities they enrolled in? It’s on that last slide, 17 in Series Vol. 3

Oh, wow, I really see it now! Thank you so much. 🙂 That sounds wonderful. 👍 That is exactly what I was looking for. I only skimmed through that section previously because I was under the impression that everything had shifted toward focusing solely on high school and college admissions.

urbantinker8 As stated by:
Dennis Alvarez2Whether you believe it or not, I honestly couldn't care less about the standardized test scores of individual schools, and I find the performance data from middle school even less compelling. There are simply too many external variables at play to suggest that a school is somehow subpar just because their students didn't achieve perfect marks on their SATs or state exams. My children will be choosing their paths based on their own unique interests, natural talents, and individual capabilities.

I certainly believe you, because there is no reason not to. I know quite a few people who couldn't care less about the data from this Series, whereas it is the parents who actually find these statistics meaningful. In fact, the vast majority of parents aren't even aware that this Series exists.

We have been living in an era defined by information and communication for quite some time now, though to suggest that these data points and streams of information are merely passive elements of our daily existence would be a significant understatement. They simply don't hold any interest for me. To truly experience what it means to be alive. I believe there is a certain quiet confidence in how one approaches life's uncertainties, much like navigating a steady course through unpredictable waters. It seems to me that moving forward with purpose, even when the path feels somewhat precarious, is where true character is forged.. 😁 I might use our school as an example to help paraphrase what you're saying. I find myself wondering about the underlying reasons for this. It seems like you might have sent an incomplete message, but I am here whenever you are ready to continue our conversation. It is essential to determine whether the school is worth saving or if it should simply be written off.It seems that several teachers at my child's school aren't actually performing their duties, to the point where they aren't even earning their basic salaries. This particular school provides virtually no support for students participating in academic competitions; while children do attend them, they almost always rely on knowledge gained from home or private tutors rather than anything taught in the classroom.

Finally, regarding... My children will choose their paths in school based on their own unique interests, innate talents, and individual abilities.It is unfortunate that today's job market feels significantly more cutthroat than it did even a decade ago. Ignoring the shifting realities of the labor market is just as problematic as ignoring hard statistical data. I say this because I have spent years witnessing firsthand the profound disappointment that follows students who choose paths based solely on their perceived talents or interests, only to face long stretches of unemployment or find themselves stuck in roles that offer meager pay and zero career growth. This often leads to a deep sense of life-altering frustration quite early on. When choosing a career path, one must look much more pragmatically than simply following passion. Of course, I am not suggesting we force a social butterfly into medical school or push a student toward MIT if they struggle with A-level math; I assume that disclaimer goes without saying. 😛 I am of the opinion that we ought to account for a much broader range of parameters, as oversimplifying things and attempting to grasp reality too hastily can lead to significant challenges, not to mention outright complications.

It is essential for parents to provide guidance or seek expert advice to help determine which career path will best serve their child, especially when considering the current demands of the American job market and future economic projections.

urbantinker8 said:Dennis Alvarez2, believe it or not, I couldn't care less about the standardized test scores of specific schools, and honestly, elementary school performance doesn't move the needle for me either, since there are just so many variables involved that I don't think it makes sense to write off an entire school just because their students didn't nail the SATs or whatever national exam they're taking at the moment.
My kids are going to choose their paths based on what they’re actually good at, their own talents, and where their interests lie.
If they decide they want to go to a general high school, I really don't have a preference for which one it ends up being, and the same goes for specialized academies. If they want a vocational track, then that's where they'll go.
I have no intention of making a huge scene or breathing panic into my children over these things, much like how I don't see any point in obsessively studying school rankings. I've never dug into that rabbit hole in my life, and I don't plan to start now.
I might know a little bit about certain local districts through experience or people I know, but none of that information is going to be the deciding factor in pushing them toward one school or blocking them from another just because the average score for A-level math was only a 2.3 the year before last.🧐

If I had known, specifically regarding our local school, that there would be such issues with core subjects as I previously described, certainly I would not have enrolled my child in this elementary school they are attending now. Between the poor quality of instruction and the teachers' lack of interest, irritation, or general demotivation, they are costing both my child and me dearly. I certainly understand the state of the profession and how underpaid they are—if it were up to me, I would give teachers and medical staff triple their current salaries—but you have to understand my position as well. I find myself having to compensate for their lack of effort at home, or by paying for private tutors, because I simply want my child to know and understand the material. No one warned me about this, even though I inquired quite extensively. It seems some parents either don't care about elementary school success, much like yourself, or they fail to recognize this as a dangerous weakness in the school that will negatively impact their child's future education. It is absolutely vital for me to have this data, because seeing that students from this school end up in lower-tier high schools or less competitive colleges only proves my hypothesis that the school itself is failing. For instance, looking at the data on the final page of Series 3, only two children in an entire generation ended up at the University of Washington. My new thesis is that the University of Washington is becoming increasingly out of reach for our kids. Once you begin tracking previous generations and notice these patterns, everything becomes quite clear. Unfortunately, it is too late for us since my child is finishing 7th grade, but I truly hope this information becomes available and understandable to other parents whose children are just starting elementary school, so they might actually care.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Actually, everything is available if you take a little time to dig through a few different reports.
First, you look at how many kids finished elementary school in a given cohort (that's in Series 2), then you check how many of those students enrolled in high school (which might be a smaller number), and finally, you see how many graduated high school—not everyone who finishes school takes the SATs or goes straight to college—and how many eventually enroll in a university. For one middle school I looked at, out of 104 kids in an 8th-grade class, 69 of them had enrolled in a US college four years later. Some probably went abroad, too, but obviously, that wouldn't show up here.
Maybe one day we'll get data on how many actually graduate from college, too! 😁
That would probably be Volume 4.
It's just that our universities aren't exactly known for being transparent...

Oh yes! We want Series 4! We want Series 4! We want Series 4! Come on, bring it back! 😬

Kate Jackson4 said:Dennis Alvarez2, my comments stem from pure frustration... at home, we spend more time discussing where a child *can't* get in than where they can. 🤣

Well, you should have said so right away! 🙂 I completely understand. 🙂

Michelle Nelson4 said:If you check out the Series 3 materials, specifically page 4, you can see the success rates in the fourth screenshot and the graduation stats. Then on page 5, it lists which high schools they attended, and by page 17, you'll see where they ended up for college.

Just to give you an idea, I was looking back at the Series 2 data from last year. Out of the 104 students in my kid's middle school class, 85 graduated high school, and 69 of them successfully enrolled in college.

You can also dive into their grade averages and see the different levels of achievement they reached during graduation... there's really a lot of great info to dig through here.

From what I've observed, the data mostly tracks the transition from elementary to high school and high school to college. Personally, I would find it fascinating to see how many children from "our" elementary school move on to universities versus those who stay at the high school level. However, I don't see a direct link—or perhaps I'm just missing it—connecting elementary school origins to specific college enrollments, though given the database they have, such a connection ought to exist. 🕺

urbantinker8 said:But seriously though: what are you actually planning to do with all this data?
Are you just digging through these spreadsheets out of pure curiosity, or is there some deeper motive at play here..?
I mean, what does it really prove when you link someone's high school to the college they eventually attended? What kind of insight is that actually supposed to provide...? 😵

It's called analysis and synthesis, for heaven's sake. Based on what data would you conclude whether a school is high-quality? From this Forum? From what other parents tell you? By tracking the experiences of your friends' children? How many kids from a certain school make it into a top state university? What do you consider relevant if you're just dismissing the Series with a wave of your hand? Evaluating school quality isn't exactly a simple metric.

In my view, the Series provides us with a wealth of invaluable information, offering very serious indicators regarding the caliber of a school. Of course, it doesn't mean the statistics tell you everything you need to know about a school, but these figures are certainly significant. This data speaks to the trajectory of a child's education, showing how much they've learned and what they've mastered, how prepared they are for high school, whether grades are being handed out easily or earned, whether the students are ambitious (as are their parents 😁), and the overall success rate of students within the educational system, among other things. If I had possessed this data when enrolling my own child in elementary school, I would have certainly chosen a school with ambitious and successful students, regardless of any criticism I might face. So, yes, it matters deeply to me.While I appreciate a positive and motivating classroom environment, I have always been rather uncomfortable with intense competition among students. Back when I was growing up, that kind of rivalry just wasn't part of the culture. Nowadays, it feels like kids are constantly walking a tightrope, blurring the line between healthy ambition and cutthroat competition.

I have a genuine fondness for statistics; while it isn't my professional field, I find myself passionately following and listening to statisticians as they parse through data to uncover patterns, anomalies, and trends. Despite the inherent flaws in data processing, these metrics provide us with incredibly valuable insights, serving as one of our most reliable indicators. Everything else tends to boil down to mere hearsay. That said, I would love for you to point me toward any other serious indicators of school performance—perhaps from the Series. Given how far behind we currently are, this database is truly top-tier.

We don't actually live in Washington, D.C., but you wouldn't believe how closely I follow the high schools there, and I've been lurking in this section of the Forum for quite some time now without posting. I am a firm believer in education, and anything related to it captures my interest.

Susan James said:Bold signature 👍

This series is such a great example of how much adults love diving into data. It also really shows how easy it is to cherry-pick numbers to support whatever point you're already trying to make. 🤷

So, I’ve been doing some digging into different universities lately, specifically looking at schools that require entrance exams. It seems like the largest group of applicants usually comes from those high-profile prep schools—which, honestly, is a good thing since they have their own rigorous testing, so you end up with much better-prepared students entering the mix.
ALILooking at the list of high schools represented—even if it's just one graduate from each—it’s pretty clear that students from some of those more "progressive" schools are actually pulling it off. They’re passing their entrance exams and getting into the colleges they want. When I say progressive, I'm talking about the ones where you don't see the best SAT scores or top-tier GPAs.
From what we’ve seen in this series, there isn't much info on how students actually fare once they get into those universities. We don't really know if they're thriving, struggling to keep up, or if they find themselves having to play catch-up just to stay afloat in their classes. It's interesting because you see such a diverse crowd enrolling at places like MIT—students coming from language academies, private schools, Catholic institutions, and all sorts of general high schools, not just the STEM-focused ones. Since they haven't implemented entrance exams yet, they're still relying heavily on high school GPA and graduation stats to make their decisions.
Fields like medicine or architecture make the process feel a lot more straightforward because you aren’t just relying on grades and SAT scores—there’s an entrance exam involved too. Based on what people are saying in this Series, it’s clear that students coming from private high schools or those specialized academies can definitely pass them. It isn't a massive group of kids, but it proves it's possible. It shows that you can actually walk away with solid knowledge from those types of schools, and it’s definitely not the end of the world if you didn't attend one of the top-tier prep schools or a major powerhouse like Harvard Kennedy School, which is where most applicants to those programs usually come from. On the flip side, I feel bad for the kids who can't even qualify for the entrance exams because their overall points are too low. That feels like a real gap in the system. From what I can gather, though, the entrance exams really level the playing field; you see students with decent B averages getting into places like the Harvard Kennedy School because they crushed the exam. It really goes to show how much that one test can change everything.

I would never advise a parent to choose a school based solely on its SAT scores or graduation stats. Honestly, you just can't boil down four years of growth, learning, and life experience into one single standardized test. It’s just not right to reduce everything a student goes through to a single final exam.
When a kid starts high school, the parent usually only pops into the building once or twice. At the end of the day, the student is the one who really needs to do the legwork—figuring out what the school actually offers, getting a feel for the vibe, and chatting with kids who are already enrolled. Open houses are such a goldmine for info, though I’ve noticed students often form their opinions on how hard a school is based on friends they know from sports or other clubs. From my own experience working with teenagers, I've found that they are actually pretty spot-on when judging if a school's workload is a good fit for them. Honestly, they have a much clearer perspective than parents do. Too often, parents try to guide the decision based on how things were back when they were in school thirty years ago, or they listen to office gossip from colleagues whose kids might be struggling. It’s easy to generalize and assume your child will have the same experience, but listening to the kids themselves is usually the way to go.

I really think this series is such a goldmine of data for the Department of Education and various agencies. It would be incredibly useful if they started looking closer at grade discrepancies—not just for seniors, but for all GPA trends—especially when it comes to elective courses.
For instance, looking at a school like Lincoln High, there are these massive swings in senior GPAs and SAT scores from year to year. It makes me wonder: is it just the specific mix of students coming through every couple of years? Or do we have a situation where one group of teachers is super tough (leading to lower grades but stellar SAT scores), while the next group is much more lenient, resulting in higher grades but lower test results? 🤷

This is exactly the kind of detail I enjoy. There is so much information to be read between the lines if one simply remains attentive and sensitive to the nuances.

Nathan Garcia said:Our kids aren't even enrolling until next year, so I'm just lurking this thread for now.
Question: This is about the school application ranking—like, what's your first, second, or fifth choice? If my kid ends up deciding they actually want the third school on their list instead of the first one—even if they technically qualified for all three—can we change our minds later, or are we stuck with whichever one they got into first?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Reddit

Me too! 🙂 I have been following the Series since the fifth grade. I had no idea the Series dated back to the old days; it really is quite a legacy left behind by those former educators.

Does anyone know if there's a corner of this wonderful e-mine containing data that compares undergraduate s college enrollment? I can see the section providing elementary and high school statistics, but I haven't been able to find anything regarding how many eighth graders eventually enroll in college—or specifically which institutions they choose. They seem to expand this e-mine every year, so I imagine these extra layers of data would be quite fascinating to see.

Kate Jackson4 said:In my opinion, the worst part is how active this thread is—high school discussions happening on a parenting subforum... that says everything we need to know.
I’ve tried asking questions in high school threads where actual students or alumni post, but there's absolutely nobody there...

It used to be that parents barely knew which school their kid was heading to, and most kids handled the whole process themselves... nowadays, we're fighting their battles for them, obsessing over GPA and admissions... that's why this isn't working.😢

🤣 It really comes down to this: the ultimate responsibility for a child's education rests squarely on the parents, which means they have the final say in whether or not to follow their child's specific interests or even their level of ambition.

You likely believe that the "child's right to an education" is a right held by the child themselves, though I suspect the reality is somewhat more nuanced than that. 🤦 Of course parents are going to discuss this privately, at the office, and right here on the forum—it’s only natural. I have always had a soft spot for these kinds of articles that attempt to label entire generations as incompetent or incapable, especially when their supposed "logical arguments" invariably begin with "when I was younger." 🥱 I can't say for certain what kind of household you grew up in, but looking back at my friends from middle and high school, I don't recall ever meeting a family that didn't constantly discuss their child's academic future. Just as a quick disclaimer, though, I graduated from high school quite some time ago, yet those discussions remained the primary topic of conversation throughout seventh and eighth grade, just as they did during our junior and senior years.

Even today, kids spend a significant amount of their time discussing these matters, and you see them debating where they want to go for college as early as seventh grade, not to mention all those intense conversations about their high school ambitions.