Posts by bluemaker

ivo said:So here is the real question: what is the actual point of going to music school, or even just getting a musical education in general?

I’m actually going to paste a post I wrote in a different thread over here, specifically as a response to why and how listening to and playing jazz can bring someone true happiness.

"How would I explain to someone why I love jazz and how it can make me happy?

Think about Charlie Parker, one of the most brilliant musicians to ever walk the earth. When you really dive into his solos, studying them note by note, what he played was essentially pure Bach with tiny, subtle variations; plus, his technical execution on the sax—the tone, the dynamics, the articulation—was nothing short of flawless. I once spent three months practicing a single one of his solos for four or five hours every single day, and even then, I couldn't quite nail it the way he did. On the flip side, this man spent about twenty years—out of the thirty-five years he lived—struggling with heroin addiction, living a pretty wild lifestyle, enduring four failed marriages, and facing all the systemic hardships of being a Black man in the USA during the 40s and 50s (he passed away in 1955). He went through absolute hell, yet somehow, through a kind of musical alchemy, he transmuted all that pain into incredibly emotional music.

The conclusion you reach when you study someone like that in detail is this: for something to be truly great, you need a perfect marriage of intellect and emotion.

You see plenty of threads on forums like this asking things like 'is money or love more important?' in various forms. Parker basically told us (indirectly, through his playing) that you absolutely need both. He provided a universal answer to any question regarding whether intellect or feeling holds more weight.

There is also this fantastic book I have about practicing improvisation, where the author mentions that if you possess moderate talent, you need about twenty years of dedicated practice to achieve true mastery in jazz. In other words, for anything that is TRULY worth having, you have to put in a massive amount of work. He also claims that everything—and I mean everything (!) —can be practiced, from your ear and technique to your expressiveness, your intellect, and your soul. Now, he wasn't talking about sex and romance, obviously, but I personally feel like that logic applies there too.

To borrow a thought from Joe Henderson, another incredible saxophonist, who was once asked what kind of sax, mouthpiece, and reed he uses, and he simply replied: "It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian." Essentially, it's the mastery of the player that matters, not the gear. When you stop to think about it, you realize that might apply elsewhere too—like saying 'it isn't about the partner you find, but the person you become.'

So, when you listen to jazz, you stumble upon these deep realizations (which can ultimately be applied to marriage or life in general), though it seems to me that most people just don't quite grasp these truths.

Which brings me back to my question: would people be happier if they actually understood these things, and if so, how many of them would be?

So there 🙂

zakan14 said:Yeah, that’s something I’d be curious about too. Is it really a failure if they don't go on to a specialized high school—basically, if they stop right after finishing middle school?
If they aren't incredibly gifted, I'd say maybe six years of music education is perfectly fine for building some core competencies, testing the waters, establishing standards, and even just developing good listening habits... What does the rest of you think?

In my opinion, it isn't a failure if someone decides not to enroll in a performing arts high school after middle school, but it *is* a failure if they stop engaging with music altogether—even if it's just through listening—because that means they didn't actually love the music, they just found those early classes to be a chore.

To give you an example from my own life, I did graduate from a specialized music high school, but during graduation, I had this massive falling out with my clarinet instructor. He was really pushing me to head straight to a conservatory, acting like because I was talented and played so well, I absolutely *had* to pursue a formal degree. But all I wanted was to play jazz. Don't get me wrong, classical is great, and Bach and Mozart were absolute geniuses, but jazz is where my heart is. So, instead of going the conservatory route, I earned my bachelor's and master's degrees in electrical engineering. At the same time, I kept playing sax at home just for the pure joy of it, teaching myself how to transcribe solos and how to improvise (which is honestly a disaster how much classical education in the States neglects the art of improvisation, especially considering Bach and Mozart were master improvisers themselves). I ended up ordering a few top-tier books online on how to practice improvisation, including some used in courses at Berkley, the most famous jazz academy, and I even subscribed to email lists where world-class musicians discuss all sorts of nuances regarding improv....

About six years ago, I met a few like-minded people and we started a quartet. Two of the guys in the band actually graduated from a conservatory, but it turned out that I actually had way more practical experience and knowledge regarding jazz than they did (simply because of how much the formal academic path missed the stuff I was actually interested in).

Fast forward to today: I have a wife, a kid, and a pretty solid, well-paying career. I've been setting money aside and I've taught myself quite a bit about investing in stocks. My plan is to set things up over the next decade so that I can eventually focus entirely on music. If everything goes according to plan, I won't have to play for a paycheck like 99% of professional musicians do—which, in most cases, is exactly what kills the passion—but instead, I'll be able to play purely for the love of it (with the money coming in from dividends and other 😬 ).

So, looking back, was it a failure that I didn't go to a conservatory? 🙂

plavva said:I have a two-and-a-half-year-old, and ever since he was nine months old, I’ve been taking him to singing classes (here in our neighborhood, they enroll kids starting at age two, and they move through levels until they reach the "formal" music programs). It’s really just 45 minutes of playing, singing, messing around, and falling in love with music. I don't care one bit whether he becomes a pro or not; I just see how he picks up melodic lines after hearing them just once, how curious he is, and how there's always some kind of music playing in the background—it feels more like a musical playground than anything else. Personally, I love giving him this early nudge, but if he decides later on that he isn't interested or doesn't want to continue, that’s entirely up to him.
It’s just like when we sign up for those toddler swim lessons starting in September—let him try it out and see what he thinks. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expanding his horizons, and whatever he chooses to do with that experience is completely his call.

So, yeah, that's my take on it. 🙂

Daisy said:I'm starting my freshman year at a performing arts high school, playing the flute. Honestly, the only thing stressing me out right now is music theory because I have this incredibly strange professor who just can't seem to explain anything clearly! Nobody can follow her lead, and by the midterms, we all ended up with an A... which basically meant our grades were just based on whether we showed up or didn't. Some students are planning to switch over to another instructor who also teaches freshmen in the theory department—apparently, he's considered the "best theorist in the country"... We're using his textbook for harmony and everyone raves about him, but if you listen to what his actual students say, it’s not quite the picture they paint.
I have no idea how this year is going to end up (especially with harmony!). I got an A at midterms (just like 99% of the class)...
And I still have to deal with her for three more years :S

Listen, the real question is what your actual goal is—do you want to walk away with an A in harmony for all four years, or do you actually want to learn how to play (and maybe compose)?

For instance, I personally pulled straight As through all four years of high school in both harmony and ear training, and then after graduation, I started playing jazz (which I've been doing for the last 15 years). Looking back, I realized that much of what they taught us in high school regarding harmony and solfeggio isn't even remotely applicable to real-world practice.

If you truly want to master harmony, polyphony, and composition all at once, just grab some Bach and start studying—you'll honestly learn way more from deeply analyzing a single one of his compositions than you ever will from a hundred different harmony textbooks.

rustymaker60 said:I’m planning on enrolling my little one in music school by the time they turn five.
We don't have a saxophone at home anymore, but we do have a clarinet 🙂, a synth, and a piano
and they’re already starting English classes at age four
I’ve got the whole roadmap planned out 😍

(unlike me, the kid can already sing quite well—or, well, hum pretty effectively)

They love banging on the drums over at their former uncle-in-law's place—just making noise, really—while watching their uncle play the blues 🙂
plus their cousin is a total metalhead guitarist, so if my child doesn't end up in the music business...

Gosh, thinking about all this reminds me of a funny situation from back when I was in the military. I was lucky enough to land a spot in the military band for eight months, which honestly stands out as one of the best times of my life. So, there I am, practicing my sax for six to eight hours a day—which is hands down my absolute favorite thing in the world (don't get me wrong, I love women and everything else in life, but nothing beats pressing that brass tube and hearing that sound—it's pure magic!)—when this guy walks up to me. He’s some high-achiever who graduated from a prestigious conservatory and is a regular pro in the orchestra, and he looks at me and asks, "Man, how on earth do you manage to practice that much?!"

And that right there is the core issue with the American music education system (and society in general). It’s one of the main reasons why I decided not to go to a conservatory to pursue music professionally; instead, I chose a career path to make money doing something I don't love quite as much, just so I could play purely for the joy of it. Because of that mindset, I definitely won't be rushing to enroll my child in formal music school at age five.

zakan14 said:Honestly, my biggest dream would be for my kid to just genuinely fall in love with music—to truly enjoy listening to it first, and then if they decide to pick up an instrument, even better! Maybe I’m just projecting some of my own unfulfilled passions onto them, but it feels so vital to really grasp and appreciate the soul of music. It’s one thing to push a child to practice their scales, but actually nurturing a lifelong passion? That seems like the real challenge.

I don't think it's quite that difficult, really—just keep a steady stream of different music playing around the house for her. Personally, I’d never touch that cheesy country or pop stuff, heaven forbid, but I’d highly recommend sticking to classical and jazz. Plus, take her to live shows!

That should be more than enough to plant the seed. 😉

vinova lozinka said:I’ve seen students who walk into auditions with incredible rhythm and an amazing ear, only for them to turn out to be total washouts after just one year of training...

From what I've seen—and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way—talent only accounts for about 5% of the equation, while all that grueling practice, discipline, and hard work makes up the other 95% when you look at how well someone actually plays.

But here's the thing: if you want someone to actually put in eight hours a day (or even more!) and see real progress, they have to be absolutely head-over-heels in love with the music first; that's really the heart of what I'm trying to say 😉

dustytrucker222 said:Would anyone be willing to share some stories about their kids and music school? You know, things like picking an instrument, dealing with teachers, the school atmosphere itself, etc. At what age should they start? Every little bit of advice helps!

I can't really speak from experience regarding my own little one and music school yet, since she's only 15 months old.

However, I can tell you about my own journey! My mom enrolled me in local music school when I was eight years old to play the clarinet. I actually finished that first year as the worst student in the class—I was pulling Cs in ear training and Ds in my instrument, while everyone else was coasting along with straight As and the occasional B, mostly because I felt like I had zero talent or musical ear. But fast forward through six years of middle school music programs, and I ended up being the only one from my original group to get into a specialized performing arts high school. Once I got there, everything clicked, and I pulled straight As in ear training, clarinet, harmony, and polyphony. I even placed second in a major national competition! For my final graduation recital, I performed Mozart's clarinet concerto—a piece I had fallen in love with back in fifth grade—and I played it so well that one of the judges actually came up to me afterward just to say, "You really made our day."

So, my big takeaway is this: if some "expert" teacher tells you during enrollment that your daughter doesn't have the "natural talent" or the right ear, please don't listen to that nonsense. The absolute most important thing is that the child develops a genuine love for music.

But fair warning—if you actually succeed in making them fall in love with it, then you might find yourself in real trouble! It happened to my mom; during those first couple of years, she’d be saying, "Come on honey, just practice for at least thirty minutes," but by the time I hit junior year of high school, it turned into, "Ugh, why on earth do you have to practice so much?!" 😬

CENTVRION said:taking things out of context doesn't lead anywhere

🤣 Are you trying to be some kind of comedian or what?

Man, you really cracked me up there, seriously... talking about "taking things out of context"... 🤣

Look, you literally post a link claiming to prove that Miles Davis absolutely worshipped Jimi Hendrix, yet the link itself clearly states, 'Jimi was one of those kids who had grown up worshipping Miles...', and now you're standing there telling me that I'm the one taking things out of context?!? 🤣

Honestly, I'm just done with this, you win, have a good one 🙂

Amanda Fowler64 said:maybe not.....
http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column13a.htm

Alright, let me pull a quote straight from that link you shared here:

'Jimi was one of those kids who had grown up worshipping Miles as Miles kept getting younger. Which Black Kid Who loved Music Had never heard of Miles Davis? For as long as Jimi could remember, Miles Had been a legend to Him, and it was only when he felt secure enough as a legend himself that he came to sit at Miles' feet and ask Miles to record an album with him.'

So, would you mind walking me through how exactly you concluded that Miles Davis actually worshipped Jimi Hendrix?

If there was anyone Miles truly looked up to, it was definitely Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker.

Amanda Fowler64 said:Satriani swears by Hendrix. Miles Davis absolutely adored him. Even Prince is still studying his work today...

I mean, don't get me wrong, Hendrix was incredible—truly one of a kind. But saying Miles Davis worshipped him might be stretching the truth just a little bit. If you look at Miles' own autobiography, you'll see a different story:

There’s a part right near the beginning where he says something along the lines of:

'i ever Had in my Life ( with my clothes on ) was When i First heard Diz and bird.'

Since we're talking about legendary guitarists, does anyone here have any thoughts or insights on these guys?

Wes Montgomery
Django Reinhardt
Joe Pass
Grant Green
Barney Kassel
Jim Hall
John Scofield

rustymaker60 said:A few days ago, I went to see this incredibly talented musician, Mr. XY.
Honestly, I was just floored by how good his music is... he isn't famous yet, and the big question is whether he ever will be.

It really got me thinking about people I know, even some of my own family members who are musicians or serious classical composers—none of them have truly broken through to a level where they can actually make a living from their art, even though they all share one thing: they make high-quality music.

It breaks my heart that in this country, the only ones who seem to survive are those hacky, bottom-tier types who are savvy enough at business to churn out complete garbage, but damn it, that's what sells.
Why does it feel like we live in a place that just rewards absolute lack of taste?!

To be fair, I don't actually know a single artist who makes a comfortable living solely from their work. It’s a tragedy.

And don't even get me started on the sheer amount of capital you need to pour into any kind of "business" when there are no patrons left to fund the dream.😢

So, here is my take on the whole situation: in my spare time, I play the sax, and I actually have my own little jazz band that we gig with every now and then. Any extra cash I make from my day job—which has absolutely nothing to do with music—I set aside in investment funds and stocks. My plan is that once I've built up enough wealth to live comfortably just off dividends and returns (hopefully within the next 10 years), I'll finally transition into being a full-time professional jazz musician.

As for the answer to why "we live in a place that rewards absolute lack of taste," I honestly don't know and I'm not sure I even want to know, but if that's how it feels, then that's how it feels. 🙂

Anyway, that's my two cents; I'll check back in with you all in about 10 years!😁

So, if I ever hit the jackpot and found myself with an endless supply of cash... 🙂

I’d probably open up about thirty different jazz clubs right in the heart of Washington, D.C., and pay those musicians such incredible wages that you'd see 200 or 300 of the absolute best players in the world showing up to jam all day long. It would basically be just like what was happening in Kansas City back in the mid-30s 😎 😁 😁

Go grab a recording of Lady Sings the Blues.

Or maybe try listening to Goodbye, played by Art Pepper.

Honestly, I don't think you can get much darker than that.

If that ends up being a bit too heavy for you, give Just Friends a shot instead.

swiftscout8 said:Oh man, I remember some of those musicians playing at the local jazz festivals back in the day, performing all that incredible Acid Jazz. They were absolutely phenomenal—just pure magic! While listening to a recording on a CD sounds great, nothing can truly compare to the sheer, overwhelming rush of experiencing live Jazz in person. It’s a total sensory overload in the best way possible. 😁

So, what do you think? Should I shoot you a private message once we have our next big gig lined up? 😁

brisknomad6 said:What about that one little shop downtown that specializes in classics and Jazz?🙂>

PS, bluemaker has such an incredible collection, so if we can agree on a specific price, maybe you could record some stuff for me😁

bluemaker, have I mentioned before that I think you'd be an absolutely amazing manager?😁

Man, thanks so much, you're a lifesaver!😬

I actually end up shopping at that same store most of the time too (I think it's called Dinaton, 😁 )

Khm... excuse my little moment of self-promotion... I've got about 300 CDs at home, and they are strictly Jazz, so now, just like brisknomad6 suggested, for a small fee... (yeah, I'm a total nutcase, honestly, I've completely lost it 😬 )

Well... I've been playing Jazz for about 13 years now (or if I'm being honest, just trying to wrap my head around 😁), and I've been listening for at least 20. 🙂

In short, Miles Davis is easily one of the greatest musicians of the last century—and I don't just mean in Jazz, but across the entire musical spectrum. He kicked off his professional career alongside Charlie Parker (whom he describes in his autobiography as the absolute greatest genius to ever hold a saxophone, a sentiment I couldn't agree with more), and his list of legendary collaborators is just staggering: John Coltrane, Thelonious Monk, Dizzy Gillespie, Herbie Hancock, Bill Evans, Cannonball Adderley... honestly, he should have played with Jimi Hendrix too, if only the guy hadn't died such a tragic, senseless death, and toward the end of his run, he was even recording with Prince.

That said, if you ask me, his peak work happened up until around 1965. After that, he started experimenting quite a bit with fusion (not nuclear fusion, mind you 😁), and while he certainly didn't lose his touch afterward, there's just something about those earlier years...

To cut a long story short, out of the roughly 20 Miles Davis CDs I own, here are my top recommendations:

Kind of Blue (this has been crowned the greatest Jazz album ever recorded more times than I can count, and personally, I'm right along with them—you've got John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, and Bill Evans all in the same band, with Miles leading the charge... the only thing that could have made it better is if Parker had come back from the dead 😁).

The Complete Concert 1964 : my Funny Valentin + Four & more (a double CD), featuring Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, and Tony Williams in the rhythm section (it’s basically the ultimate dream team 😁). This is a live recording from a benefit concert supporting civil rights for Black Americans in the South; if you want to get a sense of what the atmosphere in the USA was like during that era, check out the movie Mississippi Burning starring Gene Hackman. The venue was packed to the rafters and tickets were incredibly expensive, so Miles made the spontaneous decision that none of his bandmates would take a single cent for the performance as a way to make his point. Naturally, the rest of the band was absolutely livid and they spent the whole time bickering amongst themselves, though Miles claims that's probably why they played so brilliantly... anyway, just grab the CD and read the booklet 😁.

So yeah, that's the gist of it. 😁

So here’s the deal: we did our homework, and it turns out Chase is asking for a co-signer for both finance and operating leases, and from what we can tell, other major leasing companies are playing by the exact same rules. It seems like the hiccup is because my wife is a self-employed attorney, and since she's currently out on maternity leave, she’s just receiving about $1.50 a month from the government. I guess the banks are worried about what happens once her maternity benefits wrap up—that’s the only thing that makes sense to me.

The requirements they have for a co-signer are pretty strict; besides needing a minimum salary of at least $1333, they won't allow any more than one-third of your monthly income to be tied up in debt. We actually bought an apartment through a mortgage using my salary about a year ago, and after I cover the monthly payment of $1.25, I’m still left with $1.75. But according to their math, I don't qualify as a co-signer because my debt-to-income ratio is over that one-third threshold, regardless of how much cash I actually have left over each month. And honestly, they don't seem to care that we have about 20,000 dollars sitting in five different accounts at Chase with a perfect track record of on-time payments and less than a year left until the savings goal is met. This is all for a car with a total value of roughly 13,500 dollars.

Because of all that, we ended up having to find an additional co-signer from within our immediate family.

It’s been a pretty frustrating experience overall. So, that’s the "simple" reality of getting a lease in America.

goldengull3 said:Listen, buddy, you aren't actually leasing that car—you're just taking out a loan. A real lease shouldn't require a down payment or a co-signer...

Honestly, I wouldn't even step foot in a "leasing" firm like that anymore.

I really appreciate you looking out for me, but I don't think I quite see eye to eye with you on this one. We decided to go through Wells Fargo for our leasing, and we chose them specifically after sitting down and comparing their terms against two other major firms.

I totally agree with your logic that a lease *shouldn't* demand a deposit or a guarantor since the leasing company technically owns the vehicle, but apparently, this type of financial lease works a little differently. 😢

As for those legal loopholes you mentioned, my wife is an attorney (which is actually why we're doing the leasing in her name), so she’s been keeping a very close eye on everything. I trust her judgment on this! 😉

banderas said:Financial literacy should be part of the curriculum in elementary schools...

I couldn't agree more. 👍