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Posts by Paul Ross2

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Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Gregory Jackson said:I mean, I guess it's really just about the hopeless limitations of human language, you know? And honestly, it's probably just our own inability to truly grasp the actual nature and attributes of Being. We could call it "The Absolute," or whatever, because we have to call it something somehow, right? I don't think there's any weird gendered conspiracy going on here.
The closest we ever get to understanding Him/Her is through those great spiritual teachers or people with real insight. From that perspective, we know enough—like, an encyclopedic level of knowledge—to give us what we need, considering how much we're capable of grasping about a Being that is so far beyond anything we actually know.

So, hey, feel free not to worship God, or whatever choice you want to make.

God exists outside our constraints of time and space, yet simultaneously constitutes both our space and our time. So, really, how could such an entity be confined by the concepts of life and death? How could it be limited by entropy?
Nature has devised several mechanisms to protect information from decaying into entropy. One of those methods is redundancy through duplication—a concept that was eventually harnessed to drive evolution. Enter: biological sex.
God has no need for sex. Therefore, categorizing the Divine as male or female is entirely nonsensical.
Even here on Earth, among living organisms, there are plenty of species that aren't strictly male or female.

The core issue is that we tend to view God in our own image—as something masculine or something feminine. Yet, even we, in our fundamental essence (our consciousness), lack a gender. I am 100% male; I have zero desire to be anything else, nor am I interested in chasing the modern trends of gender fluidity. And yet, despite being male, I often feel my brain operates in ways traditionally labeled as "feminine." I appreciate art, I have a keen eye for color, I couldn't care less about cars, and I lack a competitive streak. Does that make me female? Or male? Who cares! My consciousness is genderless.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Gregory Jackson said:I mean, Reich was honestly way ahead of his time, I guess. People sometimes point to him as a precursor to studying energy phenomena and stuff.
I just haven't gotten around to reading that book by Eco yet... I suppose I'm just not really in the mood for long novels lately.

Fair enough. His orgone accumulators—not to mention his theories regarding energy flow through the human body—are quite intriguing.
As for Eco, I find myself mentioning him often, though I wouldn't exactly label his work as "page-turning" material. He can be dreadfully tedious at times. For instance, during the beginning—that section involving Amparo... I honestly felt the urge to toss the book into a fireplace more than once. The sheer amount of pathos and stupidity packed into a single character like her is... well, it's harrowing. Fortunately, he finds his footing later on. I felt a similar sensation while reading Lynne McTaggart. It was exasperating; how does she seem so disconnected from basic physics? Yet, halfway through, it’s as if the tone shifts entirely, and I actually consider her books to be Field Excellent.

Some authors truly possess the unique ability to demonstrate both their mastery and their complete incompetence within the span of a single volume.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Sandra Murphy33 said:Why is God depicted in the masculine gender...?

Patriarchy. Though, if one actually bothers to look at mythology, Goddesses exist in abundance, don't they?
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Gregory Jackson said:But honestly, I think God is the spirit; there isn't really a distinction there. God isn't human, that's just how we project things onto Him. For most people, God is an abstraction too, which makes Him pretty hard to wrap your head around. And God doesn't need religion, or faith, or churches to exist; He was just always here, before people and after we're gone.

I guess I did the same thing. I really love spirituality that isn't tied to religion; I'm just not interested in all the dogmas and rituals. But, I do make a pretty clear distinction between the church and actual teachings. I feel like the core of all religions is basically the same as the core of spirituality itself. It’s just that when someone joins a specific religion, they easily fall into this trap where they get weighed down by a bunch of extra stuff that ends up overshadowing that central truth. That's more the work of the church or some organization, so you really have to separate God from the church. Still, I totally respect anyone who grows spiritually through religion, because you can actually progress quite well that way, provided you have enough love in your heart.

I'm a fan of Leadbeater, and I think I'll spend a little more time looking into Steiner. There's probably some really useful stuff in there, I imagine.
You definitely don't need religion to have good thoughts, words, and deeds, though every religion seems to have them at its core. I'd say we should respect religious teachings, but everyone can find their own unique path. Actually, I think everyone's path is different; there aren't two identical paths or two identical lives across hundreds of incarnations.

I've found a relatively easy way to support my spiritual efforts, which is visiting places of power—these high-energy spots where you can get some developmental and health benefits. It's funny, because hardly anyone realizes that each of us has what you might call a luminous body or a light sphere (it's hard to find the right name, I guess), this super-intelligent energy structure we're born with that helps us grow, and as we grow, we help it grow too. It's like this developmental symbiosis we aren't even aware of. These places of power contain fully developed spheres that humans don't even need anymore, which hold all the knowledge of the cosmos. Now, their job is to help our spheres, which are still developing, and usually, they need to follow a person's life through several hundred incarnations to reach full maturity. These places of power can jumpstart that development by one whole step, something that would otherwise take a massive amount of effort, prayer, meditation, or other techniques. A sphere that's close to being fully developed will naturally bring its person closer to enlightenment, too. So, that's where this non-religious spirituality comes into play.

But I mean, at that point, it isn't even really Theosophy anymore, I guess.

I’m liking this. I can’t help but draw a parallel here to the Umbilicus Teluris mentioned in Umberto Eco's *Foucault's Pendulum*. Telluric forces—the navel of the world and all that.
Or perhaps even Wilhelm Reich. For some inexplicable reason, nobody seems particularly interested in mentioning him. His theory of Orgone.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
And there you have it.
As far as the Pope is concerned, he seems pretty committed to social justice—at least from what I can gather—and frankly, it’s no wonder our local friars and bishops aren't exactly his biggest fans.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Drew Moore5 said:You can decide any word means whatever you want it to mean.

It’s about whether you actually experienced a pure idea or you didn't.
And there's no need to overthink whether it was "the thing" or not. You just know with absolute certainty. Call it whatever you like.

The reality is, you can't actually "experience" a pure idea. A pure idea simply *is*. It represents a perfect truth. What we experience is merely its echo—a subjective interpretation.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Drew Moore5 said:"Thought" is a much broader term; it encompasses ideas, concepts, and preconceptions.
Which, obviously, is an imprecise way to put it. You can't really pin it down with total precision anyway.

No. Ideas aren't just products of thought—that’s a purely materialistic, process-oriented way of looking at what an idea actually is. Ideas are concepts. Algebra exists even if there isn't a single human soul around to calculate it. Proportions exist regardless of whether a mind is there to perceive them.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Brian Young76 said:Up until this point, I suppose everything I’ve read from you regarding the intersection of music and mathematics has been focused on the numerical side of things. You know, numbers, ratios, quantitative data... you’ve mentioned before that math is a spiritual discipline just as much as music is, and that viewing mathematics through an exclusively numerical lens is quite limiting, which I think is a very fair point. I wonder, though, if you could perhaps elaborate on that more? Could you try to bridge that spiritual dimension of mathematics with the spiritual essence found in music?

Or maybe looking at it this way: take a solo by Charlie Parker, let's say this one again:



Is there a way to analyze this using mathematics? I mean, why does it resonate so deeply? To my ears, I hear these completely unpredictable rhythms; in those faster passages, he seems to be playing slightly ahead of the beat, then lagging behind, or sometimes he just 'swallows' a note, implying it without actually playing it. He finds this rhythmic unpredictability by varying his dynamics and accents, yet somehow, the whole thing remains perfectly in pocket... it feels more like a language to me. Parker isn't just playing notes; he’s speaking and singing. He’s conveying a message, a spiritual message, and I guess that’s why it sounds so incredible. What kind of mathematics would you even use to analyze something like that?

I'm genuinely curious, so I figured I'd ask. 🙂

And yeah, I realize this is a bit off-topic, but if we allow ourselves a slightly broader interpretation, I really believe it ties back into spirituality, and perhaps even into Theosophy.

Of course it can be analyzed mathematically. But the real question is: why would we bother? If you find Parker compelling, then that is simply the reality. We could attempt to analyze *why* he appeals to you, but that wouldn't be mathematics—it would be psychology.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Drew Moore5 said:The devahanski realm isn't a world built on thought.

Thoughts belong to the reality closest to us. In fact, they're essentially the first thing we encounter when we enter that space through a healthy, conscious lens rather than a pathological one.

Another issue is that most people can't even wrap their heads around the idea of an existence that isn't rooted in thought, simply because our entire daily lives are constructed around them.

It’s much like how difficult it is to grasp the concept of an existence that exists outside of time.

But honestly, these are pretty great topics for contemplation.

Thoughts and PURE IDEAS are simply not synonymous.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
darkraven said:I had this one experience where my living room looked exactly like it did years ago, except everything was bathed in this intense blue light. Then another time, I saw the room as it looks right now, but in that weird sepia tint, and there was extra furniture scattered around—stuff that definitely never existed in my house. I've read some stuff suggesting this might be linked to aura colors, but honestly, I doubt if any "Theosophists" would agree with that take. It's frustrating because every time I try to find actual scientific papers on this kind of thing, they're dead silent.

Science is nowhere near addressing this. We simply aren't the kind of civilization where science and these phenomena overlap; they are two distinct realms. Our current scientific framework, while sound from an epistemological standpoint, remains stubbornly materialistic.
When I say materialist, I am referring to the most basic, physical matter.

One cannot reasonably expect science to investigate such things. Sure, methodologically it could—since those methods belong, to borrow a phrase from Slavinski / Leadbeater, to the world of ideas or at least to what is termed the devahanski level—but the motivation is always experimentation centered on physical matter. It is pure scientific positivism.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Sandra Murphy33 said:Your Ego core (Steiner) shifted away from your physical body along with the etheric and astral layers (though you remained present as an observer...), but it likely snapped back, pulled by that famous silver cord that "links" and holds the various bodily levels together. 🙂

I have always had memories of having my tonsils removed when I was four years old. To me, it was perfectly normal to remember the surgical mask, the scalpels, the gloved hands, and so on—until I grew up and learned that, theoretically, you aren't supposed to remember anything that happens while under anesthesia.

Then there is my own experience: I clearly remember my brother's wife's stomach when she was pregnant with my nephew, who is only eighteen months younger than me. And I remember it as a moment of total, conscious awareness—not some hazy dream, but something far removed from that initial, fleeting moment.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
If anyone finds this interesting, feel free to read—if not, just skip it; it might be a bit tedious:
An arithmetic ratio—which is essentially comparing two measurable quantities—is a specific instance of a standard logical operation. That operation involves:
1° Perceiving the functional relationship or the hierarchy of values between two objects.
2° Distinguishing or comparing those values, whether qualitatively or quantitatively.

If the ratio serves as a quantitative measure, it takes the form and properties of an arithmetic or algebraic fraction, $a/b$.
A proportion is simply the equivalence of two ratios—an analogous relationship between two comparisons, namely $a/b = c/d$.
A geometric proportion can consist of any number of terms:
a) A discontinuous proportion where $a/b = c/d = e/f = \dots$
b) A continuous proportion where $a/b = b/c = c/d \dots$

The ratio $a/b$ could be compound $(a+b)/b$, divided $(a-b)/b$, or inverted $a/(a-b)$.
From these, one can construct ten distinct types of proportions:
1° Multiple proportions.
2° Superparticular (the whole plus a part of the whole, divided by the whole), for example:
- Sesquialtera $(x + 1/2x)/x$ (a fifth)
- Sesquitertial $(x + 1/3x)/x$ (a fourth)
3° Superbipartite (the whole plus two parts of the whole, divided by the whole)—$5/3$.
Supertripartite (the whole plus three parts of the whole, divided by the whole)—$7/4$.
4° Multiple superparticular, such as:
Double sesquialtera $(2x+1/2x)/x$
Triple sesquialtera $(3x+1/2x)/x$
5° Multiple superbipartite.
6° - 10° Their respective inversions, such as submultiple...
The Pythagoreans back in Sicily had already established the three most significant types of proportions that can be expressed algebraically as:
$b-a = d-c$ — arithmetic proportion ($1, 2, 3$)
$a/b = c/d$ — continuous geometric ($1, 2, 4$)
$1/b - 1/a = 1/d - 1/c$ — harmonic ($2, 3, 6$)
These three proportions can be represented as:
$(c-b)/(b-a) = c/c = 1$
$(c-b)/(b-a) = c/b$
$(c-b)/(b-a) = c/a$
Alongside these, there remain seven others:
$(b-a)/(c-b) = c/a$ ($3, 5, 6$)
$(c-a)/(c-b) = c/a$ ($6, 7, 9$)
$(b-a)/(c-b) = b/a$ ($2, 4, 5$)
$(c-a)/(b-a) = b/a$ ($4, 6, 7$)
$(b-a)/(c-b) = c/b$ ($1, 4, 6$)
$(c-a)/(c-b) = b/a$ ($3, 5, 8$) — Fibonacci
$(c-a)/(b-a) = c/a$
---
The relationship between the means and the extremes:
Arithmetic mean: $(a+b)/2$
Geometric mean: $\sqrt{a \cdot b}$
Harmonic mean: $2ab / (a+b) = 2 / (1/a + 1/b)$
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Sandra Murphy33 said:Is it just nerves...? 🙄

I can't recall exactly where I read this—it was ages ago—but there was a theory that the entire process of development and evolution actually serves one purpose: to strengthen and refine the nervous system.
It's almost as if the nerve is the core essence, the fundamental conductor, the sensory organ through which we receive the divine or the soul.

On a side note: I read Steiner a long time ago, and back then, he was a balm for my naive soul; I loved every sentence, the rhythm, the flow, the gentleness, and the ideas that felt like medicine and a breath of fresh air at the time...
I went back to read him today after several decades of silence, and honestly, it feels like I'm just spinning in circles ;( He repeats the same thing from the start to the end of the text, circling around the title as if it were an absolute claim, but he doesn't actually support that claim with any arguments. He just restates it in different ways... it's like a lullaby... or as if he's trying to hypnotize me into a state of mild resentment toward whatever his claim is. He puts me into a trance when what I am actually doing is waiting, hunting for something to feed my mind—something to give me information, actual substance I can chew on... instead, he just tosses me a bone to gnaw on, ensuring at least my teeth 😎 stay safe, and my jaw doesn't have to work too hard... there isn't much thinking involved... (you've probably heard Plečkov's assertion that a clenched jaw goes hand-in-hand with so-called "brain activity": deliberately relax your jaw and you'll shatter your usual grueling stream of thought... you break the elements 🙂

The body is a marvel.

Sorry for the tangent.

Why do we love "small integer ratios"?

(Does anyone else immediately think of the Fibonacci sequence and the golden ratio when they hear that?)

Addressing this requires a lengthy explanation. I will provide one detailed response.
Broadly speaking, ratios of small numbers distribute impacts across a wide frequency spectrum, ensuring they don't mask specific frequency ranges. Masking—or shadowing—is dangerous in nature because it renders us deaf to certain noises that could signal an attacker. Something along those lines; beyond that, it’s simply training our neural networks to fundamentally dislike being struck.

To touch upon one aspect of the impact: wave propagation, including sound, is described by differential equations. A harmonic oscillator—which is the basis for all musical instruments—is described by a simple second-order differential equation (the so-called harmonic oscillator equation).
With linear differential equations, it holds true that the sum of solutions is also a solution, as is the difference of solutions.

If we have two tones, we will hear both their sums and their differences. In reality, we won't hear the sums, as they would likely end up extremely high, even in the ultrasonic range, but we certainly hear the differences.
If two tones are very close together, that difference is small. And it is this difference that we perceive as an impact.
An impact can completely destroy the sonic image of everything else, effectively making us insensitive to things occurring around us.

I won't go further there... that leads into logarithms, and then why we possess logarithmic senses...

But let's look at the Fibonacci sequence.
As we know, it looks like this: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144...

In truth, however, it is a discrete analog to the exponential function. It possesses similar properties. What constitutes a difference in discrete terms is what constitutes a derivative (the ratio of differentials) in continuous ones. Thus, if we differentiate an exponential function, we arrive back at an exponential function.
If we create gnomons (the first differences, the differences of neighbors) of the Fibonacci sequence, we simply get the Fibonacci sequence again.
Our senses are logarithmic—or rather, inverse-exponential—waveguides. Sound travels best when impedance differences are adjusted via an exponential horn. This is why trumpets, vintage gramophone needles, and even modern high end audio systems utilize exponential horns.

This is why Fibonacci appears here. Naturally, his golden ratio is represented everywhere in nature, and the reason is the avoidance of crowding. When something grows—for instance, sunflower seeds expanding from the center outward—they expand, but so do the ones surrounding them. It cannot happen that they bunch up in one spot in space. It is optimal for them to expand such that each new one arrives at the so-called golden angle. You derive this angle by taking the golden ratio of 360°: 360/phi = 222.49°. However, that leans too far to one side, so we take the smaller angle from the other side, which is 360 - 222.49 = 137.5°. That is the golden angle.
When seeds grow such that each new one appears at the center at 137.5° relative to the previous one, they will, as they grow, experience minimal crowding.
The result: patterns known as Phyllotaxis spirals. We see them everywhere—in flowers, on pinecones, and so on.
image
If you count the spirals moving right versus those moving left, you'll find that those numbers are simply two consecutive terms in the Fibonacci sequence.

Essentially, the Fibonacci sequence itself serves as a template for what we might call asymmetrical growth. For instance:
Imagine splitting something down the middle. You start with 1 on the left and 1 on the right.
Now, suppose you continue dividing, but with a delay—an asymmetry.
You divide the left side, while the right side lags behind, remaining undivided for a moment.
Now you have 2 on the left and 1 on the right.
Next, you split one part of the left side while the other part waits; meanwhile, the right side finally catches up because its turn to be divided has arrived. Now you're looking at 3 on the left and 2 on the right.
Continuing this pattern of staggered division, you’ll reach 5 on the left and 3 on the right.
Then 8 on the left and 5 on the right. It's quite clear that the right side is always playing catch-up.
If you follow this logic far enough, you realize you are constructing the Fibonacci sequences.
Furthermore, the ratios—2:1, 3:2, 5:3, 8:5, 13:8, and so on—all converge toward the Golden Ratio.

The Golden Ratio is derived from the formula (1+sqrt(5))/2, which yields approximately 1.618033989.

Deriving this formula isn't particularly difficult:
when you divide something such that the ratio of the larger part to the smaller part is the same as the ratio of the whole to the larger part—that is, b:a = (a+b):b—it becomes easy to demonstrate that this leads to a quadratic equation whose solutions are the Golden Ratio and its inverse.
That is to say, 1.618 and 0.618.
The value 1.618 is roughly 1.666, which corresponds to a 4:3 ratio, while 0.618 is close to 2:3.
We are essentially dealing with thirds here. This explains why the "rule of thirds" is so vital in American fine arts, as the Golden Ratio can be approximated using these thirds.
It goes without saying that in music, a 4:3 ratio produces a perfect fourth, which sounds harmonious. A 3:2 ratio produces a fifth, which is equally consonant.

Historically, the Greeks developed a vast array of intervals based on these small integer ratios, turning it into a legitimate spiritual science. This brings to mind what Ghika once remarked: "The harmony of the sirens is like a planetary broadcast of the harmony of the spheres."

I am quoting this from a forum, though it is also found in Matila Ghika's book, *Philosophy and Mysticism of Number*:
Actually, within those harmonic analyses provided two pages ago, he is describing the Pythagorean concept of the TETRACHORD LYRE. The Tetrachord Lyre wasn't a practical musical instrument meant for daily performance, but rather a conceptual one. It was an instrument with equally tensioned strings of lengths 6, 8, 9, and 12, through which it was possible to derive all proportions and most musical intervals. To the Pythagoreans, the concept of the tetractys held divine significance (which is why, in prayer, they would say: "You who created both Gods and men").

The tetractys is typically visualized as ten spheres arranged in a "pyramid" or triangle configuration, consisting of 4, 3, 2, and 1 spheres (with 4 in the base row, followed by 3, then 2, and finally 1 at the apex).
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Gregory Jackson said:Thanks, I always just thought of that as an astral projection thing. I'd love to hear some stories though—like, what did you actually see or where did you end up going?

Perhaps it would be best if I shared an experience of my own first. And since psychologists seem to love insisting that we only truly remember those specific milestones from years ending in a three or a five...
They are wrong.
In my case, I can recall what feels like day zero.
Back then, I could essentially levitate above my bed—and I don't mean an Out-of-body experience, which involves exiting the physical frame, but rather the exact opposite: drifting upward and occasionally sinking back down. I felt more "out" than "in." As for the surroundings? Everything was bathed in blue. Just endless shades of blue.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Gregory Jackson said:Can someone please refresh my memory—what exactly is an OBE and what's the best way to induce one?

Out-of-body experience. An out-of-body experience.
My apologies if that was intended as a rhetorical question and I managed to misinterpret the intent.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
George Wood2 said:These explorations into unusual "out-of-body" consciousness phenomena are quite intriguing. Perhaps someone here might possess insight regarding the process of separating from one's physical form while in a state of full wakefulness, with eyes wide open. It felt almost like a mere overture to everything that followed.

To provide context, thirteen years ago, I was sitting outdoors in nature, simply waiting for the workday to conclude. About half an hour prior, I experienced a peculiar sensation—a strange feeling that something was about to occur.
I wasn't dwelling on any specific thoughts; I was merely relaxing and observing the landscape and the distant islands from a pine-covered clearing.
Suddenly, I felt myself slowly sliding out of my physical body toward the right side. I reached a point where I was halfway out. It was a completely conscious "slipping" away from the physical vessel, which remained entirely static.
The "entity" that emerged from the physical body was translucent, ethereal, and perhaps the most weightless sensation I have ever experienced through any form of consciousness. It was akin to direct perception without the need to reflect upon what was being observed. Pure consciousness, nothing more.

After several minutes, a progressively stronger pulling force began to act upon the physical part of my body, dragging me back toward my previous "normal" state. It was as if the physical body alone cannot sustain itself for long without what we might call a carrier, and without this "consciousness" of the physical form, the body cannot truly be conscious. Perhaps the body would simply become a zombie. But what would happen to a conscious body?
This persisted well into the evening, characterized by this incessant tugging as the body sought to pull my conscious self—which is essentially who I am—back into the integrated, default setting of a complete human being. It was a surreal experience to walk and drive my car home 🤣 feeling separated. Someone would undoubtedly describe it as being distracted. 😉

I do not consume any intoxicants, nor do I use any drugs. 🤣
From a psychological or psychiatric standpoint, this experience caused no harm to my mind or body, aside from providing a profound perception and a different perspective when viewing life outside of man's material and intellectual planes.

Does anyone happen to have information regarding a similar experience?

We are going to see more and more of this: people will attempt to shove everything they fail to comprehend into the categories of psychiatry and psychopharmaceuticals. Astral projection and an Out-of-body experience—much like remote viewing—are neither psychiatric phenomena nor the byproduct of drug use.
Our drive to rationalize is a natural impulse, yet the less people understand physics, the more they search for "proof" within physics that all of this is nonsense. The further they drift from medical science, the more they assume these states are mere pathologies. And as our culture trends toward massive shopping malls and new iterations of religious devotion to money (think Bitcoin, freelance sites like Upwork, various e-commerce platforms), people aren't just drifting away from the spiritual—they are becoming fundamentally incapable of grasping that anything exists outside of the monetary, material realm. This is made all the easier by a world that constantly bribes them with electric cars, e-scooters, high-end computers simulating reality, social media, robotics, and those endless fairy tales about artificial intelligence.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Charles Wood73 said:True enough. Lucid dreamers know they’re dreaming, astral travelers believe they’re in the astral realm, shamans claim to be wandering through one of three or nine different worlds, and partygoers know they managed to score some top-shelf stuff this time around... meanwhile, anthropologists will tell you the difference isn't found in the insight or the sensation itself, but rather in the cultural framework used to label it. 😬

I can wrap my head around all of them, except for the folks who blindly follow Leadbeater and his crowd instead of just trying things out for themselves to see what’s actually there. A gram of practice is worth more than a ton of theory.

The problem is, I don't have the means to procure the goods. Not even an ounce. I just don't have those kinds of connections.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Paul Rogers94 said:Fair observation—if only he’d actually notice any wisdom worth sifting through, that would be something...

I once posted a quote from Ramana Maharshi on Facebook—paired with that classic image of him sitting on a tiger skin—and honestly, it was hilarious. Not one of his hardcore followers noticed the profound wisdom in his words... instead, everyone just lost their minds over the fact that he was sitting on the hide of a dead tiger. Typical...

And that’s exactly why it’s such a nightmare for people to separate the wheat from the chaff...

Wasn't Zar Buddha a king, just like Janak?

Beyond that, Sogyal Rinpoche falls under the Milarepa lineage—that whole "crazy wisdom" thing—which is defined by those avadhutas and mahasiddhas who are essentially intoxicated by divine madness... people for whom conventional rules just don't apply. Nothing. The norms were always there—those standards that the people living in... Red quarters. They were literally waking up hookers through intercourse—if someone like that spat on you or hurled insults at you, it was considered a massive blessing. That single act would completely strip away a person's negative karma. Sogyal Rinpoche’s behavior is entirely consistent with that logic and his actual state of being... if people only acted that way by merely imitating divine madness, it wouldn't just be useless, it would be... Any behavior that doesn't align with our true state of being—it just causes harm... nothing more, nothing less.Then you’re just kidding yourself...

Even within Sufi mysticism, you find two distinct currents—one follows a standard, pretty disciplined path... Naqshbandi...and the other one is... Malamatiyya What exactly is this "path of blame" concept? It’s the idea that you have to go out and commit actual transgressions just to connect with the divine—essentially acting out your darkest impulses to confront the shadow you hide behind a mask of socially acceptable morality...

So, let me get this straight—neither how someone acts nor what they own can serve as any kind of yardstick for spirituality...

I was referring to this:

Drew Moore5 said:Look, unlike many other theosophists, Leadbiter actually had genuine insight into the astral plane, which was widely recognized. However, that doesn't apply to Devahan, which operates on an entirely different level.
The astral plane is essentially a realm of images that sit behind reality. Devahan, on the other hand, is a realm of sound behind reality. Even if his description of Devahan isn't perfect, I suspect he would agree with that distinction. Honestly, Devahan can't really be described systematically; you can only approach it through certain outlines or principles.

To recap: Leadbiter was an Anglican priest who joined the Theosophical Society, got kicked out, then got let back in, eventually becoming a bishop for the so-called Free Catholic Church in Australia. He was also initiated into Freemasonry during that time.

He faced accusations regarding teaching boys assigned to him about masturbation. Without passing judgment ourselves, we should look at the consensus of his contemporaries. A significant number of Theosophical Society members, including Annie Besant, pushed for his expulsion. And he was expelled. We won't dwell on the specific accusation from one boy regarding his sexuality, but the fact remains: Besant, who basically ran the Society, eventually changed her mind and allowed him back in.
Aleister Crowley wrote in 'The Equinox' that he was a "senile sexual maniac."

Then there's Krishnamurti, which is a whole different story. As the son of a Theosophical Society member (convenient, right?), he was intended to be the vessel for some sort of Messiah, though nobody was quite sure which one. After a few years, he walked away and headed to Australia. Once Krishnamurti matured, he tried to reject the labels people forced upon him, but it was a losing battle. He practically had no choice. Fortunately, Krishnamurti himself was a decent person, even if his personality was crushed under a massive burden.

Since your avatar is the Ukrainian flag, it suggests that your emotions are driving your logic. That’s not necessarily a catastrophe at your level—that's how most people operate. But it becomes dangerous if those emotions push you toward action (like changing an avatar, for instance), because emotions are the easiest things to manipulate.

All of this feels somewhat reminiscent of the Chod ritual.
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Gregory Jackson said:I mean, honestly, it feels like every other Buddhist teacher you come across goes by the name Rinpoche, I guess.👍

The term Rinpoche—it’s essentially synonymous with Gollum’s "Precious." Back home, people tend to translate it simply as "Gold," but that misses the mark entirely; it actually refers to something truly precious.

I remember him from back before the internet was even a thing. Now that he’s online... well, it's interesting to watch. He seems to share that same specific trait found in Leadbeater—and let's not forget Osho Rajneesh (if we can ever forget the whole saga involving those 100 Gold Rolls-Royces and the endless parade of young women). Of course, we had our own localized, slightly smaller-scale versions of that particular brand of chaos right here in the States—think of someone like Don Ante Baković and his Jeep Grand Cherokee, or even how Aziz Makaj (Franjo Miličević) wasn't exactly far off from that orbit either.
The accusations leveled against Sogyal Rinpoche—ranging from sexual and physical assault to the blatant misuse of charitable funds—aren't exactly recent developments; in fact, they stretch all the way back to the 1970s. One has to wonder: how much longer can such systemic issues remain under the surface?

Back in 1994, a massive $10 million civil lawsuit was leveled against Sogyal Rinpoche. The core of the allegation? That he allegedly leveraged his authority as a spiritual mentor to coerce a female student into a sexual relationship. It wasn't just a simple accusation, either—the legal complaint went much further, citing claims of intentional infliction of emotional distress, a breach of fiduciary duty, and even outright assault and battery. Ultimately, the whole matter was settled out of court, avoiding a public trial.

Back in 2011, some rather serious allegations resurfaced—this time brought to light by journalist Mary Finnigan, who, if you recall, was actually the primary author behind the original piece back in 1995.

Back in 2014, Marion Dapsance concluded a grueling seven-year investigation into the life and actions of Sogyal Rinpoche. It wasn't just abstract allegations, either—by 2016, *Time* magazine had published the harrowing testimony of "Mimi," a former long-term assistant to Sogyal Rinpoche, who detailed the systematic sexual and psychological abuse she and her colleagues were forced to endure. Then there was the internal fallout: in 2015, Olivier Raurich, who had served as the longtime director of Rigpa France, resigned from the organization—not just for a change of pace, mind you, but as an outright protest against what he described as a suffocatingly dictatorial atmosphere. To top it all off, another survivor finally found the courage to go public during the June 13, 2017, broadcast of the American investigative program *Brandpunt*. One has to wonder: how much longer could such a culture of control actually persist?
Theosophy in Spirituality ·
Gregory Jackson said:
Man, I was just thinking about this earlier, but honestly? It’s such a scruffy little thing. Like, seriously, just a total ragamuffin of a pup. I guess you could say it’s looking a bit rough around the edges, if you know what I mean, maybe even a little bit bedraggled. Just one of those messy, unkempt little creatures that somehow still manages to be kind of endearing in its own weird way, I suppose. kaže:
I mean, those worlds he’s always going on about... they don't actually exist, at least not any the way he describes them, I guess. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying things like Devahan or astral planes aren't real concepts out there somewhere, but his descriptions just don't have anything to do with the reality of it all. I actually have that little pamphlet, Devahan Enterprises, sitting around—honestly, I wasn't even interested in it when I was a kid, but I decided to flip through it again last night just to see if it hit differently now that I'm older, but yeah, it was pretty much nothing. For starters, it doesn't really connect to Devahan Enterprises at all; it doesn't offer a single coherent idea about what any of this is, and once you finish reading it, you're probably just left feeling more confused than when you started. It feels like West only heard about the Devahan level from Leadbeater, and then he just took it at face value without having any sort of context or anything else to compare it to, which is kind of wild. The only thing in that whole booklet that actually relates to Devahan is the title itself, and then everyone starts debating whether he actually understood what Devahan meant or if he was just throwing around terms like astral planes to sound smart. But honestly, I don't think Leadbeater knew anything about any of it; he was just spinning his own theories about Devahan and these various planes and whatnot. I've even poked through some of his other writings, and they're all pretty much useless and nonsensical, too. At best, you might walk away with a totally wrong impression because, I suppose, if you don't have a clue what you're talking about, you can just ramble about whatever pops into your head, right? Everything he wrote is just kind of empty and doesn't explain a single thing. I was rereading Devahan Enterprises again last night, and if anyone were to ask me, "Hey, so you read it, what does it actually say about the Devahan level?" I'd probably just stare at them blankly. 🤔🤔🤔 I mean, I guess you couldn't really try to summarize that for anyone, because honestly, there's just nothing there to work with, you know? It’s like trying to explain a blank sheet of paper or something, which probably wouldn't be much of a conversation starter either, I suppose.
I honestly feel like my two previous posts on this thread actually managed to capture more of the essence of Devahan Enterprises—like, you know, that specific aftertaste, the actual flavor profile, even the scent of it all—than what you could ever hope to find in the entirety of Leadbeater's whole body of work, I guess.

I mean, I’ve been sitting here thinking about this, and I’m honestly just so curious, you know? Like, how can anyone even begin to claim that Leadbeater has "mastered Devahan," or maybe just partially mastered those astral planes, when the whole thing is kind of a loop? It’s like, if someone is basing their entire understanding of what Devahan actually is—or even what those astral realms are even about—strictly on what they’ve heard from Leadbeater himself, then doesn't that basically mean they don't actually know anything at all? It feels like they might just be completely and utterly confused on those specific points, I guess.

I mean, I guess I just don't really see any actual contribution from Leadbeater to anything at all, if that makes sense? Like, I've been sitting here thinking about it, and honestly, maybe I'm just missing something, but I truly can't wrap my head around what they're actually bringing to the table.So, look, this guy clearly doesn't have the slightest clue about the astral plane, or how those layers actually work, or even what Devahan is really all about, but he’s managed to stir up such a massive mess that now we’ve got people out here making all these wild claims based on his total nonsense. It's like, they're trying to argue about what he supposedly controlled or didn't control, which is just silly because, honestly, he didn't rule over anything at all, I guess. But hey, if anyone thinks I'm totally off base here, feel free to try and change my mind, I suppose!

So, what are we even supposed to do if we haven't had any of those astral experiences yet, and we don't have any Devahan training either? I mean, I guess you’re probably out there hunting for some kind of super reliable source to guide you, even if that means digging through something like Leadbeater's work. Honestly, there’s actually a lot of good stuff tucked away in his writings, and I really think there's something useful for everyone, regardless of where they are on their path. Like, maybe you can find a specific instruction from a master or just a more advanced student that fits your current vibe, whether you're looking for deep spiritual insights or just something practical that works for someone managing a household or something along those lines. It's all in there somewhere, I suppose.
I mean, Daskalos is honestly incredible and he really speaks from the heart based on his own lived experiences, which I love, but you know, I guess there just isn't any place where you can find his deep dives or concentrated writings specifically about the astral plane or that noetic realm—what he calls the Devahan level. It’s more like you just pick up little bits and pieces of insight here and there while he’s busy explaining other topics, so you have to kind of piece the puzzle together yourself, I suppose.
I mean, honestly, I guess most people don't actually need to get bogged down in all the gritty, nitty-gritty details of the theory itself, you know? It’s more like... maybe they just need that little nudge of perspective regarding what happens after we leave this physical plane, which I suppose could have all sorts of huge implications—hopefully positive ones, anyway—on how we choose to view the world we're living in right now.

Man, I actually had this one experience back when I was a college student that felt totally surreal, like I was caught in some kind of lucid dream or maybe even an astral projection session—I was playing around with this specific technique at the time, you know?—but honestly, by the time I woke up the next morning, I wasn't even sure if I’d just had a wild dream or what actually happened. I never really managed to pull it off again, though I guess I didn't exactly go out of my way to try either, since there are plenty of other ways to level up your practice anyway. But yeah, I always love hearing about what you guys are going through and catching those firsthand accounts from people who actually do this stuff.

Just to jump in and stick up for Leadbeater for a second, I mean, the guy basically said multiple times that trying to put those worlds into words is an almost impossible task, and that any description is probably going to feel pretty hollow or just totally incomplete. So, I guess it’s kind of easy to nitpick if someone really wants to be critical, right? It might actually be more helpful if we could get some recommendations for someone else who maybe handled that kind of world-building a bit better.

Oh, absolutely. This should clear up quite a bit.