Posts by urbanraven16

Michael Perez5 said:Wait, what's the deadline? Is there really no way at all to undo this and get back to the previous status?

The deadline is technically a month from when you missed it, provided you file everything within eight days once whatever excuse you had actually ends.

But honestly, at this point, it’s pretty much over—game over, nothing left to save... though if you really need some kind of miracle to get them to reconsider, you’d better have some heavy-duty documentation to back up your claims, like an actual hospital stay or a death in the immediate family or something serious like that...

Regarding these $333 fines, maybe you could try paying them in installments... I mean, if this were a local courthouse, they might be flexible, but with the police department, who knows... maybe you should call their expedited processing unit directly and just see what they say...

Michael Perez5 said:Great... so I guess that option is off the table now? It doesn't exactly sound like my best idea to just roll up to the DMV and ask them to stamp my driver's license...

What should I do? Maybe I should file an official appeal?

Honestly, you can't... there isn't much left to do at this point :-(

Your best bet is to just head down there and make some noise, because if you don't show up, they'll probably just tack on another misdemeanor (I think $167) and then you'll have the local police breathing down your neck to collect it...

The only thing is, if the timing is just terrible right now, you could try dropping by and asking the clerk—strictly off the record, of course—if they could push it back a month or two and just give you a call later... it’s definitely not how things are supposed to work, but hey, if they're feeling generous...

Michael Perez5 said:So, I have a question for the lawyers or anyone here with some "experience" regarding this.

I won't repeat everything that happened, but I’ve drafted what I think my appeal should look like. I'm asking for some help with the specific details and the general format, since I've never actually written one of these before...

Thanks.

FORMAL COMPLAINT/OFFICIAL GRIEVANCE TO THE CHIEF

Regarding citation number: xxx-xxxxx---xxxxxx-xx/07 dated June 1, 2007
Regarding the conduct of officer: Badge Number: XXXXX

Los Angeles Police Department, Glendale Station

I was driving behind a car with California plates approaching a railroad crossing. I didn't notice the warning lights flashing.
Since the vehicle ahead of me cleared the tracks (which are over 30 feet long), I noticed the strobe from a police cruiser moving toward the crossing,
heading toward the city. As I pulled up alongside the patrol car, totally confused about what was happening, the officer (Badge No: XXXXX) rolled down his window and told me
to pull off onto a side street. I did exactly what he said and stepped out of the vehicle. The officer approached my car and asked for my registration and driver's license.

I handed over my documents, and the officer claimed my headlights weren't on—and issued a fine for $100 (my lights were indeed off)—then added that I had
crossed the tracks while the warning lights were flashing, which carried a thousand-dollar fine.

In total shock, I told him I just hadn't seen the flashing signals. He basically told me he didn't care and climbed back into his cruiser, leaving me standing there by my car on the road. I was honestly stunned by how dismissive he was. I tried to politely explain again that when I was approaching the crossing, I simply DID NOT see the lights on. The crossing is quite long and pretty rough to navigate—lots of potholes and multiple sets of tracks—so maybe they flashed right as I was crossing, but I couldn't see them. Even if I had, I certainly couldn't have performed any sudden maneuvers on the tracks themselves.

The officer was completely unyielding and refused to discuss it further. I'm not even sure if he was officially on duty, because there was a woman in civilian clothes sitting in the passenger seat with a purse on her lap, and the officer kept making comments to her. It made the whole situation feel very unprofessional. After receiving the ticket, I looked it over and realized he didn't actually charge me for the headlights being off (even though they were), so I suspect he just "let it slide," which seems like a pretty questionable way for an officer to uphold the law in a constitutional republic.

I was actually on my way to a job interview at XXXXXX (you can verify this with the company), and because of this delay, I missed my meeting
with the owner. Since the officer didn't write me up for the headlights (again, I assume he waived it), and given that whether those lights were actually flashing while I crossed a 30-foot stretch of potholed track is highly debatable—and I am more than willing to present
potential witnesses—I believe I have suffered significant financial harm. Missing this interview, which I drove all the way from
Phoenix to attend, is a huge deal. This job is my livelihood, just as much as my driver's license is. Therefore, I am submitting this formal grievance against the citation and a complaint regarding the officer's conduct to the Chief...

What would you guys add or take out? Please help.

Thanks.
--------------------------------------------

It happened on June 1st...
Since I haven't paid the fine yet, should I wait for the decision from the municipal court and then appeal that instead?

Oh, Michael Perez5... seriously, how did nobody give you a heads-up on this disaster? :-(

It’s pretty much over now... once they hand you that citation on the spot, it doesn't matter if you haven't paid yet—the clock starts ticking the very next day for your window to contest it... if you wanted to stop that citation from becoming final, you had to file an appeal within eight days...

But now it's official, and you've already missed the deadline to try and roll back the whole mess...

Unfortunately, there isn't much left to do, so you're looking at turning in your driver's license, and you'll have to cough up the fine plus all the extra fees, otherwise they'll just send it to collections through the IRS, and if that fails, things could get even uglier with potential jail time...

It really is a shame, because there was a decent shot at getting a suspended license instead or maybe even a lighter fine...

Man, for crying out loud, didn't any lawyer around here think to give this guy a little advice before it hit the fan?!

Michael Perez5 said:Look, I’m really not trying to start an argument with you. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that there isn't some kind of workaround, and now they're talking about suspending my driver's license? Seriously? It doesn't make sense. I've dealt with similar stuff before—I had maybe three or four speeding tickets back in the day, but they were all around the $167 mark, and those were settled ages ago...

The notice I got just lists a case number, and then it says I have to show up IN PERSON for a summons from the local municipal court. But what exactly does that entail? Does anyone actually know how that works?

Dammit, whoever told you not to file an appeal was a complete idiot... you could have potentially negotiated for a conditional suspension instead of losing everything outright...

"IZM" is most likely shorthand for an Emergency Protective Order or some kind of immediate enforcement measure... though usually, that would come straight from the police rather than through the court system...

Actually, if you already received the final decision, then you're looking at a formal citation... the one that mandates the loss of your Class B license, right? If you didn't file an appeal within the window, the ruling became legally binding once that deadline passed...

Listen, how long ago did they actually serve you with that notice? If you're lucky, maybe there's still a slim chance to file a petition for reinstatement or some kind of plea for leniency...

Thomas Miller80 said:How can you say it isn't being enforced?
I mean, look at them over at Central Park—it’s been happening since early June, right here in NYC.

link: http://www.novi-chicago.info/step.jsp?newsid=113031

well, those are just the folks from the federal courts...

lonefalcon13 said:Who should I reach out to about switching my $167 hours over to volunteer work instead? I assume I’d need to talk to the local county court?
And is it actually true that they don't end up calling anyone in for that kind of service?

Don't bother reaching out to anyone, just wait until the court summons you to state whether you’ll accept the community service or not. You absolutely have to respond to the notice, because if you dodge the process server, they might just assume you're refusing the terms, and then you're looking at actual jail time... As for the rest, yeah, it's pretty much true that nobody gets called to do anything since there aren't even any functional regulations in place yet, so the whole thing isn't even being carried out right now...

mistycyclist14 said:Guys, you haven't actually given me any advice on what to write in this speeding ticket appeal for driving through a residential zone.

Can someone smart please weigh in? I'm not looking for those people who just try to lecture me on how paying the fine is the easiest way out.

Look, if this is just about the money, honestly don't even bother fighting it, just pay the $110 and $167 move on with your life.

That’s probably your best bet because if you try to contest it, once the court's decision becomes final, that's when the statute of limitations on enforcement kicks in, which basically just gives them more time to actually track you down and make you pay anyway...

lonefalcon13 said:Okay, I did see that! But I also saw people mentioning how they filed paperwork right before the clock ran out. It’s pretty obvious here that the initial incident happened on June 24, 2005, yet the official decision wasn't issued until May 19, 2007—and let's be real, there's no way that paperwork was just sitting in the mail for two and a half months... My big question is: is there anything I can actually do? They just sent me a bill for $500 plus $37 fees. Thanks!

And why wouldn't it? It’s not like they just mail it directly to your front door right away; it goes through the lower court first, then they forward it to the petitioner and the defendant...

You don't have any more standard legal appeals left, the ruling is final, and since the decision was handed down before the statute of limitations expired, you're stuck. You can take those $167 and try trading them in for a new car instead, but honestly, $37 you just have to pay up.

copperangler15 said:Look, I get that the lights are synchronized. But is a judge really going to waste time and money on expert testimony for this? And once they bring in some incompetent witness to testify, the court is just going to believe them. From what I've seen, the police act like they're above the law anyway. Third point: does it actually matter if they botched the location or messed up the street name on the ticket? Do I even have a fighting chance at getting this charge dropped?

Not a chance.

It’s actually impossible to provide an expert opinion on which specific light was green at a given moment unless there was some kind of accident to begin with—so where would they even get that data from?...

It’s the same old story we see all the time... one person sticks to their guns and suddenly everyone acts like they're the ultimate authority...

rowdyviper3 said:No court can just pick a date and decide when a ruling becomes final. It actually takes eight days—or whatever the legal window is for appeals—after every single party involved gets served and signs off on the receipt. So, if you really want to drag things out, you could technically stall by just being difficult about receiving the paperwork... Also, the statute of limitations for these kinds of violations is two years. If they haven't handed down a final, binding decision by now, the whole thing is likely dead in the water.

The VPS rulings are effective the moment they’re handed down, purely because there’s absolutely no way to appeal them...

Carl Morales9 said:It honestly would have been better to stay silent, given how condescending and disrespectful that tone was. 👎

The core issue remains: where exactly is this documented? It isn't as if I can walk into an appeals court and argue my case by saying, "Well, Thomas Miller80 told me so."
Statutes of limitations can be tucked away in various different legal codes.
Under the misdemeanor law, it states, "A special statute may establish a longer period for initiating misdemeanor proceedings for offenses prescribed by that specific law.
", or alternatively, "Upon any interruption of the statute of limitations, the clock restarts. The limitation expires in all cases when twice the period specified in paragraph 1 of this article has passed, or when twice the period provided by a special statute under paragraph 2 has elapsed."
When I review a decision from a municipal court, they never cite the specific federal or state registers where these laws were officially published. Therefore, I intend to follow up once more to clarify which official government publications contain the misdemeanor law and its amendments, as well as the traffic safety law and its updates regarding these expiration periods.

PS. I am asking because the information I'm receiving regarding these deadlines is completely contradictory. My thanks in advance to all the helpful members here.

Look, you don't really have to cite anything specific in an appeal because once a case hits the statute of limitations, the judge is legally obligated to notice it on their own initiative...

Specifically regarding traffic violations, the standard expiration periods apply—so we're talking one year for the relative period and two years for the absolute one.

As for right now, though, there's no way of knowing how things will shake out once the new misdemeanor laws kick in or if those changes will retroactively apply to cases already moving through the system...

swiftseal69 said:thanks for the colors. 🙂
And a quick shoutout to everyone else who actually bothered to put in the work too. 🙂

testdrive...look, if we’re supposed to be strictly following the Constitution, then what was even the point of passing all those other laws and sub-regulations?
Honestly, I don't really care to make things more complicated than they need to be—mostly because I wasn't the one out there selling subpar emblems, you know, like those cheap copper reliefs or white marble ones—but I do care about the actual details, not just your personal spin on specific sections of the law, or in this case, the Constitution.
But hey, thanks for the effort anyway. 🙂

you can find everything regarding the hierarchy of laws versus "sub-laws" right there in Article 5 of the Constitution itself, and the fact that the Constitution serves as the foundational legal document—regardless of whether you "care" or not—isn't just some personal interpretation on my part, it's honestly just basic civic literacy...

swiftseal69 said:Look, I’m well aware of what’s laid out in the Constitution, and I know exactly what the Flag Act says regarding official interpretations. 🙂 I was under the impression there might be some specific statute or regulation governing how the Great Seal of the United States is displayed within a physical space—you know, similar to those rules about where you have to post an invoice, like how it belongs on the door rather than stuck to a window. 🙂

So, are we really splitting hairs here, especially since the standard version you'd find in a bookstore—or even the one printed in The New York Times—is exactly that bronze style?
Does that mean it's somehow forbidden to use that version in an office or building?

Maybe you know what it says, but clearly you don't understand what a Constitution actually *is*...

Because if the Constitution states the Great Seal of the United States consists of red and white fields, then even if five hundred other laws or sub-regulations claim otherwise, the Constitution remains the final word...

(Though, in reality, those five hundred other laws wouldn't say anything different; they’d all align with the Constitution anyway.)

So, if something is just "bronze and colorless," it isn't the actual Great Seal of the United States, which means if someone asks you to display the official seal and you instead put up some bronze thing that vaguely resembles it—you're technically in violation...

When I told you to pick one up at the first bookstore you see, I was obviously talking about the colorful, framed ones roughly the size of an A4 sheet—I'm positive they carry them, and honestly, I thought it was pretty obvious given the legal definitions of how the seal should look, but if you really want to make things difficult, fine, go ahead...

As for hanging that seal in private business offices—who knows, I assume government agencies have their own specific rules for that, like an IRS internal operating manual or something...

dreamymailman said:😬

Oh sure, absolutely— 😬

crimsonsailor7 said:The thing is, if you actually dig into that specific law, it doesn't really lay out the exact details the author is asking about...

Oh, come on, what do you mean it doesn't say?

Section 4: "The Great Seal of the United States, the flag, and the anthem may be used in the form, description, and text established by the Constitution of the United States and regulated by this Flag Act. Nothing can be changed regarding the Great Seal or the flag of the United States. (...)"

Section 7: "The Great Seal of the United States is a historical American seal in the form of a shield divided horizontally and vertically into twenty-five red and white fields, such that the first field in the upper left corner is red. Above the shield sits a five-pointed crown that curves gently to meet the top corners of the shield. Set within the crown are five smaller shields featuring historic American emblems arranged from left to right: the oldest known emblem of America, followed by the emblems of the Republic of Ragusa, the Mediterranean Coast, Istria, and the Pannonian Basin. The ratio of the height of the main shield to the height of the smaller shields in the crown is 1:2.5, while the width ratio is 1:1. The oldest known emblem of America features a gold six-pointed star with a silver crescent moon on a blue field. The emblem of the Republic of Ragusa features two red bars on a blue field. The Mediterranean Coast emblem shows three gold crowned leopard heads on a blue field. The Istria emblem depicts a gold goat facing left with red hooves and horns on a blue field. The Pannonian Basin emblem consists of two white horizontal bars on a blue field, with a red field between them where a marten walks toward the left, accompanied by a gold six-pointed star in the upper blue section. The entire seal is bordered by a red line."

Section 9: "The original Great Seal of the United States is kept in the US Congress, and all other versions are modeled after it..."

Or to put it simply—no, it can't be "bronze and colorless"—and even more simply, maybe just go buy the first book you see at a bookstore and call it a day...

swiftseal69 said:Quick question...
Does anyone actually know which specific law, regulation, or federal rule dictates how the Great Seal of the United States can be used or displayed inside a business office?

It’s definitely not under the Flag Act. 🙂

I'm also curious if there's anything out there that specifies the visual details beyond just the shield and the field itself—like, what about the colors? Can you have a brass version without any color at all, or does it strictly have to be full color, and are there rules regarding size and everything else?

Thanks. 🙂

So why isn't it the Flag Act or whatever else?

When it comes to the field colors, you can find them in Article 11 of the Constitution, though they basically just repeat the same thing in the Flag Act anyway...

Frank Walker7 said:Man, this definitely deserves a massive THANK YOU!!! And hey, I love the username—I’m hoping there’s a cool band connection there. If not, never mind!
Regarding point number four: since I’ll be heading into Washington, D.C., and my roommates and I will likely be working all day, it’s pretty unlikely anyone will be home during the week, so the police won't be able to track me down then. They’d probably have to swing by on the weekend. I know the Misdemeanor Act says they can technically reach out to me at my job, but how would they even know where I work? I'm assuming the police will just end up leaving a notice for a third time, clearly showing that the summons was properly delivered.

Could someone else maybe walk me through the formalities regarding transferring jurisdiction to Washington, D.C.? It seems like a pretty convenient way for me to buy myself a little extra time.

It isn't actually a transfer of jurisdiction, it's more of a formal request for a hearing, and you can include that in your objection—basically asking to be heard in Washington, D.C. because that's where you work... though keep in mind they don't have to grant it, especially if you don't provide any solid reasoning or if you aren't even officially registered as living there...

btw, costs are sitting at $150 for now, but once the proceedings kick off, that number could definitely climb, and while things aren't quite as seamless with the backlog as they used to be, it's still doable...

Gregory Cooper5 said:The appeal is officially in! Now, I’m just sitting here playing the waiting game, wondering when that letter from the court is actually going to show up. Does anyone know when the courts start their summer recess? If they aren't taking a break anytime soon, I might have to start befriending my mailman so he just slips those yellow notices under the door, or maybe I should just change my address entirely... who knows! Anyway, I've been told not to hold my breath regarding the Supreme Court. A few people mentioned they've seen cases where decisions get sent out way after the statute of limitations has already passed, and urbanraven16 confirmed that's definitely a thing. Honestly, it might be better to just settle this now before things spiral into even more expensive legal headaches.

Thanks, everyone!

Well, basically whenever, usually July and August, though that doesn't mean things actually grind to a halt... when they finally call you depends entirely on which city or specific court you're dealing with, since smaller local courts tend to move faster while the big ones in places like NYC drag their feet, but honestly, DUI cases seem to get priority everywhere...

Even though it's true that the Supreme Court often manages to rule before the statute of limitations kicks in, even if they send out the notices with a massive delay, that still doesn't mean nothing is getting tossed due to expiration at the Supreme Court level, and just for the record, a ruling from them can't possibly be worse for you than what you got in the lower court, so please don't ignore your right to appeal just because you're terrified of the legal fees or a higher fine...

The smartest move is to decide before you even give your first statement whether you're going to fight this thing or just play nice, and then just stick to that plan until the end, though you should head to the Supreme Court either way—if nothing else, think of it as a sort of interest-free loan, because even if they uphold the original ruling, you aren't legally required to pay the fine until everything is final...

And if the Police Department decides to appeal too, there isn't much you can do about it anyway, and your own appeal won't change the outcome...

Good luck.

Taylor Campbell4 said:I don't quite get why community service is an option for a fine up to $167, and I'm also wondering—if I suddenly rack up multiple fines at once, say one for $350, one for $500, and then another for $500—does that count as a single penalty exceeding $500 or not?

Secondly, if memory serves me right—though it's been a few years so I might be hazy on the details—there used to be a specific clerk at the Municipal Court who handled fines. I think I received a notice once and just settled everything then. I didn't run into any extra fees back then...

So, will they actually contact me regarding that—the part about swapping the fine for service—and does that apply to both cases? Should I just wait? It’s honestly a bit hard to believe they call everyone who doesn't pay immediately...

Ah, so you're talking about that second scenario...
See, I received those initial notices, but it wasn't a formal ruling—just the citation you get from the Police Department when they pull you over. I didn't file an appeal, and I didn't pay within the window.

On that note, is there any way I can swap this for community service before that next Municipal Court notice arrives with all those additional procedural costs I'll be forced to cover?

Man, I've gotten my first and second scenarios all mixed up—I just want to make sure I handle the process correctly so I don't end up with the police knocking on my door and a massive bill to pay.

Well, look, the reason there’s that $167 limit for swapping a fine for community service is simply because it's written into the Misdemeanor Act, and that's how it's been since this law took effect back in 2002...

If you get hit with several violations all at once (one single incident), whether you can swap them for service really comes down to the "technicalities"—if the officer plays it by the book and hands you separate citations right there on the spot (like one for 300 and one for $167), then eventually, both could be swapped for service.

But, if they issue a formal citation or send the case straight to court, they’ll list both violations in a single motion to initiate proceedings, and then the judge settles everything with one ruling where they determine the individual fine for each violation first, but then add them together to announce a total fine—in this case, $267—and once it hits that level, you can't swap it for service anymore.

Regarding that second scenario, I’m still not totally clear on whether you actually received a formal citation or not? That's what a citation is called, and it has to include instructions on how to appeal it to the Municipal Court within 8 days)

If you didn't get a formal citation, one will show up in the mail, and it'll include the administrative fees for issuing it, and at that point, your hands are tied—you can't go in "ahead of time" to try and trade that fine for service.

If you did get a citation, then that's that; just sit tight and wait for the judge to call you regarding the community service option.

And one more thing... they don't actually carry out the service, they never have, because there aren't any actual regulations in place to enforce it, and from the moment the order becomes final, a specific statute of limitations kicks in—it's the statute of limitations for enforcing sanctions. Once that expires, say goodbye to the community service idea, and even if something happens before then and they actually start trying to implement the service, you still technically have the option to just pay the fine and skip the work.

Huh, I know I made that sound way more complicated than it needs to be, but honestly, it is a bit of a mess 🙂

Taylor Campbell4 said:1) So, I apparently committed some kind of traffic violation back in May 2005. I just received an appeal decision from the Supreme Court stating my appeal was denied—they also sent over payment slips totaling $203.
Hasn't the statute of limitations expired by now?
Do I actually have to pay this money, or what's my next move here?

2) Also, I recently got pulled over for a light issue. I totally missed the eight-day window to file an appeal. To make matters worse, I have no idea where my payment slips are—I moved recently and I think they might be sitting in some old box in my previous apartment, who knows. How much time do I have to settle these? (If I don't pay, is the Police Department going to come looking for me?)
Let's say I did find the paperwork and the slips they gave me on the spot—if I don't want to pay the fine and would rather opt for community service instead, should I take that decision over to the local Municipal Court's fine office?

uh hold on, so you actually received both the official notice and the payment slips...

in that scenario, if you didn't contest the ticket and you miss the deadline—I believe it's 15 days once it becomes final—and if the fine is under $167, then you'll first get that notice asking you to explain your preference for community service, but for the actual money, they'll move straight to collections...

but if the fine is higher than $167, they go straight to the IRS for forced collection, and if that doesn't work out within six months, they issue an order where the fine gets converted into jail time, starting at a minimum of three days, and then for every additional $100 you get one more day behind bars...