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Posts by Jesse Cook4

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Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
rowdypanther12 said:But honestly, why would I even want my child to take communion? I have no interest in the rituals of a religion I don't follow.
If I actually belonged to that faith, of course I'd want my child to learn about it.🤷

Exactly.

If the Church had tried to expand by forcing people to sit around reading ancient texts and passing exams, they wouldn't have gotten very far...

Religious education today is just forced indoctrination for a shrinking flock—it's basically a survival tactic to keep the Church relevant.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Richard Morris43 said:The whole mess boils down to this: if a kid isn't enrolled in those religious studies classes at school, they can't take communion, and eventually, they can't even graduate or move up the social ladder within the community.
So, effectively, the church uses these milestones to hold people's hands, right? Because let's face it, most families still give a damn about their kids hitting those traditional milestones and sacraments.

If you want a real fix, you have to get religious instruction out of the public school system entirely—that's the only way, but let's be real, that’s never going to happen in this country.

My kid started first grade this year, and right when I was filling out the enrollment paperwork, I checked the box for religious education.
Why? Honestly, because I didn't want him just wandering the hallways or stuck in some empty classroom while everyone else was busy.
Everything seemed fine until that first class actually happened. After he got home, he absolutely lost it, telling me he couldn't sit through that stuff and that we couldn't possibly wait until the end of the school year to pull him out.
He was genuinely distraught.
And look, it wasn't even the teacher's fault; it was the actual material being taught that just clashed so hard with how his little mind was starting to work.
To be totally honest, I had no clue it would hit him that hard.

I took him straight to the office to unenroll him immediately, even though it was the very beginning of the term. They told me normally you have to wait until the end of the year, but they made an exception for us.

In the end, it worked out fine; there are plenty of other kids who don't attend those classes, so the school has ways to keep them occupied during that period anyway.

And why on earth should the government care that the church thinks the state needs to step up and handle its business?

Church problems belong to the church. They created this mess themselves; they can fix it themselves.

What if the government passed a law saying the church had to organize all the driving lessons for getting a driver's license?

rowdypanther12 said:This keeps coming up, along with the follow-up question: why on earth would anyone want their child to participate in the graduation or communion if they aren't willing to attend the religious classes? 😁

In theory, separating the kids sounds bad, but from what I've seen with my own daughter and most people I know, it actually works out fine for the kids who skip those classes.

Because any unnecessary activity is just a waste of time. Besides, kids managed to hit those milestones perfectly fine long before religious education was baked into the public school system, so...
Turkey - TR in World ·
Rachel Turner2 said:What a joke. Instead of just giving his colleague a seat and staying on his feet, he starts demanding someone bring him a chair. He scurries off to grab one himself immediately. Honestly, you only find this kind of weak behavior in Brussels.

So how exactly was equality violated if she just happened to be standing? What stopped her from asking for a chair herself?
Turkey - TR in World ·
rowdytiger13 said:Here: https://www.politico.eu/article/sofa...-i-am-a-woman/

She claims it wasn't about protocol. Michael seems to agree, otherwise he wouldn't have gone public about the whole mess.

According to Wikipedia, it also says:

"He further mentioned that a possible cause of the distressing situation was that Turkey had strictly adhered to the diplomatic protocol[1][12] which rates the head of the EU council above the head of the EU commission.[10][13]"

The Turks are saying the exact same thing.

They should have just provided identical chairs. When you don't have matching seating, protocol dictates who sits where.
Turkey - TR in World ·
rowdytiger13 said:Maybe you feel that way because von der Leyen herself basically called them out during her address to the European Union Parliament on Monday. She pointed out that this happened specifically because she’s a woman and gave them a pretty thorough dressing down. She noted there's no excuse for it, even asking, "Would this have happened if I were wearing a suit and tie?"
She made it clear it wasn't about a shortage of chairs or some protocol error.
By the way, the perfect term for this whole mess is "Sofagate."

That's exactly my point. If she had sat next to Erogan while Charles Michel took the sofa, would everyone suddenly be fine with it?

From what I can gather, European Union protocol dictates that Charles Michel outranks her. Those poorly placed chairs just made the hierarchy way too obvious. Sitting any other way would have looked even stupider.

It honestly feels like she's just offended because, as a woman, she didn't get a "pass"—not because of the actual protocols.
Turkey - TR in World ·
Kevin Peterson53 said:
Ursula von der Leyen was reportedly stunned by how she was treated in Ankara: ‘This wouldn’t have happened if I were wearing a suit and tie’


If I remember correctly, it was Charles Michel who really set the tone, being the first one to jump up and sit down next to Erdogan.

Ehh, those Frenchmen & Germans. 😁

Is it just me, or if there had been two men, would the Commission President have ended up on the sofa while the Council President took the armchair? Their own protocol ranks them unequally anyway, so there wouldn't have been an "incident."
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Jessica Kelly4 said:America is a parliamentary democracy. There are perfectly legal ways to push for the changes you're demanding.

If they were even half as honest as the Republican Party was when they introduced their campaign promises about "tackling 21st century challenges" and "prioritizing education," those pledges would have actually turned into, you know, kicking religious studies out of public schools.

(And maybe sneaking in a mandatory physics lecture during Sunday mass. Just a thought.) 😉

Real enlightenment, right?
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Men
seem to suddenly realize how unfair it is when they try to force their views on everyone else. It’s funny how they’ll take advantage of the fact that most kids don't want religious studies, using the social pressure of being left out of group activities to shove their agenda down the throats of the minority. It's honestly pathetic.
I mean, if we're actually talking about elective subjects, they should be kept completely separate from the main schedule, but of course, that would be too simple.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Jessica Kelly4 said:It’s wild that someone actually participating in this debate could say something so mindless. You basically just spat on centuries of human thought regarding ontology and metaphysics. I'm not even going to bother arguing with you; believe whatever you want.

Actually, quite the opposite... the end result of all those centuries of thinking is a loud, collective "ideas have no foundation."

Too bad a massive industry of snake oil salesmen cropped up in the meantime because they hate that reality. They probably should've just found real jobs, right?
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Jessica Kelly4 said:Science is indifferent to God. It doesn't claim He exists, nor does it deny it. God is simply outside the scope of science, especially the natural sciences. Sure, scientists can believe or not—that’s a personal value judgment, not a scientific one.
If anyone's interested, check out this great recent interview with Dr. Mitrekeski where he discusses the relationship between faith and science:

On the flip side, religious education starts from the premise of believing in God. In those classes, the teacher isn't sharing a personal opinion, but rather the stance of the Catholic Church. It's an educational component conducted with explicit parental consent.

Science is just as indifferent toward God as it is toward Santa Claus. "Outside its domain." That’s a pretty fancy way of saying they find the idea... unhelpful. 🙂

Personally, I think the teachers' behavior totally justifies having Santa Clauses walking through shopping malls handing out gifts while making sure kids know God isn't real.

You want war? You've got it! 😉
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Lawrence Torres56 said:Nah, that's the absolute truth, and if I were you, I'd report that teacher immediately. They don't have the right to act like that, especially not in an American religious studies class.

Oh, I'm sure they'll scramble to fix it. These instructors are terrified of being reported... they act like they've seen the devil himself.☕
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Brenda Doyle5 said:Can you see the massive flaw in that logic when you look at religious studies, Christianity, and all that preaching? Setting aside whatever nonsense goes on inside a church for a second—this stuff is taught in public schools. It’s presented as absolute truth, the only right way to think.

I'm not even going to lower myself to the level of conversation in that last post...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy A series using Reddit

It’s honestly hilarious watching Sunday school teachers tell kids that Santa Claus isn't real—all while being completely oblivious to the irony of the whole situation. 👏
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
hiddendriver34 said:What do you guys think about a teacher who just bluntly tells her students during religion class that Santa Claus is a made-up character who isn't real?😠

Well, they can't act shocked when kids get told God isn't real during some other class, all while those teachers collect their paychecks on a lie.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Jason Ortiz5 said:If only it were that simple...

My kid’s history teacher was just going over early civilizations lately—stuff like writing systems, Jews, Egypt, and so on. Then, out of nowhere, she asks the class what they learned about all that from the Old Testament. My daughter came home totally stumped, asking me, "What am I even supposed to say?" And honestly, what *can* I say to her? Should I tell her to explain to the teacher that the Old Testament is basically just a collection of legends from some ancient desert outpost rather than actual historical fact?

Anyway, I just told her to stay quiet when those questions pop up. Just focus on learning the languages and, at the first chance she gets, find a way to hop on a plane to somewhere more civilized. I really don't know how else to help her...

She could have just said she learned that genocide is perfectly acceptable.

I've seen something similar in my kid's English lit classes—the textbooks are absolutely loaded with references to the Bible...

I know how to brighten people's days sometimes; I tell them I work as a nuclear engineer, where most of my job involves calculating safety systems using nothing but raw math and physics.

But every once in a while, I lean on Jesus and his teachings. What could go wrong? 😉
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Brenda Doyle5 said:Sorry, I didn't quite catch that. Are you implying there's some kind of fake solidarity among the kids here?

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No, it’s more that the people currently fine with forcing kids to be up at 5 AM—since they have that 6-7 AM obligation (and an even earlier start in the winter)—would suddenly realize that doing that is actually just child abuse.🙂
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Brenda Doyle5 said:I agree that the approach is wrong. You shouldn't force people... but wouldn't a true Christian want to attend Advent vigils? Why wouldn't they?
Wikipedia says the Advent vigil symbolizes a Christian's alertness during the Christmas season and Jesus's second coming. Christians strive to watch over their own lives and the lives of others so they don't lose eternal life. 🤔
It goes on to say these are simply the most FAVORITE masses (except maybe in Columbus) which hold penitential significance and represent a four-week period of continuous sleep deprivation. The Advent vigil calls us to honor the baby Jesus born in the manger and to witness God's wonderful works...

Every Christian should feel honored by this, rather than feeling pressured to show up for vigils.
And Jessica Kelly4 says their church is packed with both kids and adults.
I have no clue what it's like where I live; I'm not a believer. But it's weird to me that some people are counting down the days until the vigils while others are complaining...
Is it because some are mostly Christian and others are just a minority? Some go out of faith, while others just go for the grades or so their kid doesn't have free time?!?!

That's just wrong... 😱

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What, are we going to count everyone at dawn Mass just to calculate the official percentage of Catholics in the US?😉

Anyway, speaking of Columbus, it turns out the actual requirement isn't attending every single service during Adventure, but at least two.

So, maybe people wouldn't complain so much if a school scheduled an obligation for kids at 6:00 AM just once.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Jessica Kelly4 said:They can't mandate it, only encourage it.
If you're going to make claims like this, you should at least mention which city or school we're talking about so the info can be passed up to the Archdiocese.
Besides, those early services are actually great; my kids love them, and the church is always packed.

"Nudging" by implying that if you skip the Vigil, you don't get your sacraments. 🙂

Columbus.

And wouldn't it be just lovely if public schools also mandated classes from 4:00 to 5:00 AM? That way, kids have to wake up even earlier and just huddle outside in the freezing cold for an hour waiting for the Vigil. Truly phenomenal. I’m sure nobody would ever call that child abuse.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
I just picked up on a pretty wild detail, though I don't know if it's happening everywhere or just in my neck of the woods. During Advent, the religious ed teacher is insisting that the kids attend f**king early morning mass from 6:00 to 7:00 AM. Every single day, weekends included. 😵

Basically, this means during the week, kids are wandering around town freezing their butts off between 7:00 and 8:00 AM waiting for school to actually open. Since a ton of them commute, they don't even have the option to head home between church and class.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Lawrence Allen4 said:Jessica Kelly4, I think you’re overstating things here.

Shouldn't religious studies in our schools actually be about learning about different faiths and belief systems from an unbiased perspective? The goal should be to help kids develop critical thinking skills—to encourage them to question the world around them and truly think for themselves. Why does that equate to Christian indoctrination? This whole argument that these classes exist just to teach children "morality" or "goodness"... honestly, please. It feels more like teaching them how to be compliant followers under the guise of a faith that claims to only promote virtue.
The curriculum taught in public schools ought to be entirely distinct from what they teach in a church basement.

The whole point of religious education is to completely shut down critical thinking. Honestly, it’s about as compatible with a real education as smoking is with staying healthy.
Religion classes in school - Megathread in Students & Teens ·
Lawrence Torres56 said:You're kidding, right? Too many cooks in the kitchen just leads to a messed-up kid... especially once puberty hits.
Back in the day, maybe a hundred years ago, when everyone basically looked out for themselves and the church held way more sway over people than politics ever did, puberty was just about physical maturity. The whole concept of an "adolescent crisis" didn't even exist back then.

Plus, kids learn about morality throughout their entire education; you can't just single out religious studies because it doesn't sit well with your personal views.😁

And besides, if a subject's scheduled hours aren't enough for students to actually master the material, what do you do? You increase the class time, you don't just kick the subject out of the school entirely, 😉 because cutting it out is just going to trigger the exact opposite effect.

Religion is basically the very core of morality itself... 😵

Quincy:
"Whether you’re religious or not, decent people act right and jerks act like jerks. But for a good person to go out and commit an atrocity? That usually takes religion."
Steven Weinberg