Posts by graniteharbor502

stormybadger8 said:Exactly...
Regarding that situation with George Russell, they really could have just let it slide as a racing incident, couldn't they?
Especially when you consider that we were right at the race start, there was absolute chaos everywhere, and if one looks closely, Sergio Perez actually had significantly more room than George Russell to avoid any contact, and so forth...
However, the situation involving Pierre Gasly is much, much harder to justify, because there weren't other cars nearby, Gasly was acutely aware that Sebastian Vettel was right there, and Vettel didn't have any substantial space to maneuver to avoid the impact, and so on...

But honestly, handing out penalties in both cases feels somewhat farcical; in fact, they shouldn't have issued them at all.
Because if we are being realistic, if a penalty for forcing another driver off the track is effectively only five seconds when the race itself is only marginally longer,
then wouldn't it be most logical for Charles Leclerc or Max Verstappen to simply push people off the track from now on, rather than engaging in proper racing and leaving space for one another as they ought to...?

That five-second penalty makes absolutely no sense to me. If they are going to penalize collisions, then they should go all the way with a disqualification. Then you would see how suddenly everyone starts leaving plenty of room on the track. Both Perez and Vettel had their races ruined. Well, let those responsible for the collision deal with the consequences too.

cosmicstag16 said:Why did they call a VSC when Carlos Sainz's engine gave out? He parked quite far from the track and wasn't endangering anyone. It seems to me this season they are just itching to throw a VSC or a Safety Car for every little thing.

It is because they are terrified that some other car might fly off right toward where Sainz's car is sitting. All of this—these VSCs and Safety Cars—is simply foolishness; they disrupt the rhythm of the race, they nullify the advantage that certain drivers have worked so hard to build, and ultimately, they just allow the drivers to take a breather. While human lives are certainly being saved, one cannot help but feel that the essence of true racing has died.

Pierre Gasly and George Russell are essentially to blame here, aren't they? They saw another car overtaking them on the outside and realized there was plenty of room on the right side of the track to simply let it happen, yet they chose instead to aggressively attack the corner, effectively forcing the drivers on their outside line into a terrible position. In my view, both penalties are perfectly justified and crystal clear.

Alex Albon is driving in absolute Mad Max mode today.

Max Verstappen is operating in total god mode today.

Jack Kelly5 said:If there’s even a hint of trouble with the car, the only person who could possibly take down Max Verstappen is Lewis Hamilton. And even then, he'd have to do it in a split second while driving a lightning-fast machine.

What I find myself wondering about, though, is the true potential of this Ferrari; what kind of lap times do you suppose Max Verstappen would be pulling if he were behind the wheel of one? It really makes you think...

The Mercedes drivers seemed absolutely desperate out there today.

Or perhaps this:

Could we perhaps find some equally impressive figures representing women and the LGBTQ+ community as well?

Roger Wright94 said:A qualifying session consisting of just ten laps? In an environment where every single subsequent lap brings entirely different, faster track conditions, one must wonder... isn't that incredibly conditional?

Exactly. It seems to me that Carlos Sainz possesses a much sharper ability to adapt to shifting track conditions on the fly, whereas Charles Leclerc appears to perpetually wait in a sort of passive state for instructions from the pit wall—where, one can't help but notice, the spiders seem to be sitting.

Roger Wright94 said:The last time Leclerc was in Miami, his finishing position was actually higher.
If you choose to equate a higher placement with being a superior driver, then I suppose that is your prerogative.

However, one must consider whether being a better driver, executing a more skillful race, or simply securing a higher rank are truly synonymous concepts, are they not?

Regrettably, the championship standings do not award points based on artistic impression or sheer flair. We should perhaps keep in mind that Carlos Sainz delivered a much stronger qualifying performance just now in the United Kingdom. While it is perfectly evident that he lacks the raw pace possessed by Charles Leclerc, it remains equally true that Leclerc does not quite possess the tactical driving intelligence shown by Sainz. If one were somehow able to merge those two skill sets, would we not end up with an exceptionally formidable driver?

Palmer's take on this whole situation:

And if you ask me, the lion's share of the blame for that collision really rests on George Russell's shoulders.

Richard Ross11 said:It looked to me like Russell actually clipped the rear left tire on Gasly just a split second before the collision...
Perhaps I am mistaken, but that is certainly how it appeared to my eyes...

Gasly struck Russell with his front wheel, which then caused the Briton to collide with Zhou Guanyu. The crux of the issue lies in the fact that Gasly spotted an opening between Zhou and Russell, yet Russell began veering toward Zhou to close that very gap. Unfortunately, he did so far too late, leaving him essentially responsible for the crash. Zhou maintained his line, Gasly followed the path through the gap, but Russell failed to hold his course.

Roger Wright94 said:Finishing P7 earns you 6 points at the end of the day.

And yet, is four points still considered too little for Mick Schumacher?

Raymond Anderson4 said:Then everyone should have at least received a warning, shouldn't they?

Even after reviewing the second start, I feel that Carlos Sainz Jr. was driving quite aggressively, yet he didn't actually force Max Verstappen off the track.
For a situation involving Carlos Sainz and Charles Leclerc, we really ought to have a better camera angle to see what happened.

Half of his car was practically off the track; these are all sorts of incidents that simply have nothing to do with fair racing, if you ask me.

Raymond Anderson4 said:Setting aside the previous point, if a driver capitalizes on your mistake and begins an overtaking maneuver—and if Mick Schumacher was already in the process of overtaking him at the final corner of the final lap—then one cannot simply shut the door on that driver, can one? This isn't a video game, after all.
That is precisely the situation Max Verstappen found himself in; he shouldn't have closed the gap so abruptly, as he could have just squeezed Mick Schumacher toward the edge of the track, but instead, he lunges straight in the moment he sees someone trying to pass.
And once again, we find ourselves looking at a scenario where, had Mick Schumacher been even slightly more aggressive, there would have been a collision.

Mick Schumacher would have crashed and ended up with zero points anyway, whereas Max Verstappen already has a damaged car and truly has nothing left to lose.

Raymond Anderson4 said:Max truly earned that penalty for his actions, as this whole situation feels like it's gone far too much. Mick actually possessed superior exit speed—which was largely due to Max's damaged floor—and he held a solid inside line, yet Max simply shut him out.
If this becomes the standard for how everyone drives, we would end up seeing nothing but overtakes happening right at the DRS line, because the moment he perceives someone attempting a pass, he immediately closes the door. I truly believe that if you make a mistake, or if an opponent simply has better traction out of a corner or more effective braking, you shouldn't be allowed to constantly drift wide or block their racing line just to compensate.

Looking at the broader picture, what Max did was actually mirrored by Sainz, Perez, and Leclerc during that very same race—though I am somewhat uncertain regarding Hamilton's specific movements. Therefore, the argument that "everyone does this" doesn't quite hold water, considering most drivers are already operating within those same parameters.

It seems quite clear that neither the Ferrari team nor their drivers possess the necessary caliber to secure a championship. One might even say, if one were feeling particularly cynical, that they are a match made in heaven for failure.

This particular race served as a stark reminder that nearly half of the drivers on the grid seem to have absolutely nothing to contribute to Formula 1... 👎

Amanda Kelly said:Honestly, being stuck behind Alexander Albon for even half a lap is enough to cost you a position.
The rest was just Ferrari's pit crew messing things up.

Same goes for Perez compared to Carlos Sainz. Maybe just less obvious than what happened to Leclerc.

I wouldn't say Perez won unfairly, but he definitely relied more on luck than actual skill. After the pit stops, he ended up behind Lando Norris. He probably wouldn't have passed him if Lando hadn't pitted and cleared the way.

But what about those other laps where he had nothing but open track ahead of him? What kind of disadvantage does that actually pose to the rest of the field? 🍿

stormybadger8 said:Who exactly should be embarrassed and why?
The people claiming Perez was faster than Max in Monaco 🤔

Since when did quoting a stat sheet and stating undeniable facts become something to be ashamed of?🤦

Whether it is people insisting Perez will be the primary title contender, or the idea that because he spent half a lap trailing behind Williams Racing, it somehow explains why Charles Leclerc and the others ended up driving slower laps than Max during those decisive final rounds.

swiftmaker12 said:Poets are a true wonder in this world.
This is my little way of trolling—watching a ten-page debate unfold about what might have happened if three drivers hadn't triggered that red flag during Q3... it’s basically a scientific seminar at this point.
That’s peak trolling right there—when certain folks on this forum start projecting their own wishes onto undeniable facts.

But what actually went down? That's where we naive souls sit around wondering how things could even work this way. Now *that* is the real trolling.

Just a slight misalignment of values, I suppose.

This forum exists as a space for the exchange of ideas, which naturally includes presenting one's own vision of alternative scenarios that could have occurred. If you truly believe someone is trolling, please feel free to report such posts.

I find myself wondering, quite sincerely, whether you will all feel even the slightest bit of embarrassment when the season finally draws to a close and you look back upon what you are writing right now?

stormybadger8 said:Way more relevant than those fake "what if" scenarios that don't even exist. All that "if only this happened" nonsense is just noise.
Well, look at that. Some kind of miracle happened during practice—Perez and Max actually managed to pull off decent laps.
Unlike those imaginary circles and all that nonsense...

He wasn't even slower in qualifying; he was actually on track to beat Perez if things hadn't gone sideways. His first and second sectors were both faster than Perez's.🙄

You can talk all you want about his "legendary" first and second sectors. Honestly, we could just sit here and debate how he was faster in sector 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and even sector 6 too.
Nah, he didn't have a faster lap. Considering he hasn't managed to outpace Sergio Perez all weekend, it's a bit much to expect him to suddenly pull that off out of nowhere.

You’re claiming I said Max Verstappen was the fastest in qualifying. All you've got is to actually show me where I said that. I don't have time for the whining.

Read what you're writing. If he was faster than Charles Leclerc, then it’s pretty damn obvious he was the fastest.

You're losing the plot. We're talking about whether they actually managed to pull off that final lap. They didn't. The results speak for themselves. And honestly? It’s not like this is the first time this happened in Monaco.

Oh sure, let's just dive straight into talking about aliens. That'd be great.

There was zero chance Max could have pulled off that second lap. It was a total wash because Perez, Sainz, and Alonso all went flying into each other.
So, apparently there were three different reasons for that red flag, not just one...

mellowtiger83 said:I feel like I read somewhere that Max was actually faster than Charles Leclerc during those critical moments.

Which specific moments are we talking about?

There is far too much nonsense to sift through here.

And it’s probably best to just skip over Jos Verstappen and his commentary altogether.

Look, if you intend to debate this, please try reading carefully and with a bit of comprehension. I stated very clearly that during the decisive laps of the race, Max was faster than Charles Leclerc, which I am more than happy to substantiate with the following evidence:
Code:

That does not, in any conceivable universe, mean I claimed Max was the fastest overall in qualifying. It is an absolute fact that the red flag ruined Max's best attempt at qualifying. Yet, here you all are, stubbornly clinging to your positions despite lacking any coherent arguments whatsoever. 👎

stormybadger8 said:Oh, "noticeably slower," sure...
If you look at the whole weekend compared to Perez, he was definitely slower...

FP1 -0.142 sec
FP2 -0.068 sec
FP3 -0.405 sec
Q1 -0.011 sec
Q2 +0.163
Q3 -0.037

On average, Max was noticeably slower than Perez over the entire GP weekend.
He only managed to beat him in Q2; everything else he was slower, and more importantly, he was slower when it actually mattered...

Where on earth did I say Max was the fastest in qualifying here in Monaco? 🙄

Max wasn't slower than anyone in qualifying 🤔
He was definitely slower than Leclerc ☕
He was slower than Sainz ☕
He was slower than Perez ☕

So who *wasn't* he slower than, dear graniteharbor502? Latifi and Albon? Is that it?
Or was he only faster than the guys driving cars that were obviously much slower than his...

Is it not truly fascinating how we have reached a point where the data from the practice sessions actually carries weight? One might wonder if we haven't drifted into an era where those initial laps on the track hold more significance than they once did. Does anyone else feel that the relevance of the practice sessions has shifted so fundamentally in recent times? 🤣
It didn’t feel like he was any slower during qualifying, really; if that unfortunate incident hadn't occurred, I truly believe he was on the verge of pulling ahead of Perez. When you look closely at the data, he actually clocked faster times in both the first and second sectors compared to Perez, wouldn't you agree?🙄

stormybadger8 said:Oh, "noticeably slower," sure...
If you look at the whole weekend compared to Perez, he was definitely slower...

FP1 -0.142 sec
FP2 -0.068 sec
FP3 -0.405 sec
Q1 -0.011 sec
Q2 +0.163
Q3 -0.037

On average, Max was noticeably slower than Perez over the entire GP weekend.
He only managed to beat him in Q2; everything else he was slower, and more importantly, he was slower when it actually mattered...

Where on earth did I say Max was the fastest in qualifying here in Monaco? 🙄

Max wasn't slower than anyone in qualifying 🤔
He was definitely slower than Leclerc ☕
He was slower than Sainz ☕
He was slower than Perez ☕

So who *wasn't* he slower than, dear graniteharbor502? Latifi and Albon? Is that it?
Or was he only faster than the guys driving cars that were obviously much slower than his...

You seem to be operating under the assumption that I ever actually claimed Verstappen was the fastest during qualifying. If you truly believe that is what I said, then all I ask is that you point out exactly where that statement was made. I have no interest in engaging in petty bickering or mindless whining.

stormybadger8 said:Did you even watch qualifying???
In what crazy universe could Max have been faster than anyone else during that second sector in Q3? 🙂

Once you figure that out, please, enlighten us...
There isn't a single theory—absolutely none—where that works.
Even if Perez hadn't crashed, or if Sainz hadn't slammed into him, Max still wouldn't have finished the lap faster.☕

It wouldn't have happened because a red flag was inevitable regardless of Perez, since Alonso hit the wall right before he did. 🙂

🤦
I feel as though you have begun to lose your way in this discussion. We are speaking specifically about the reality of whether they managed to pull off a full lap to the finish, which they simply did not. The results stand exactly as they are. This isn't some unprecedented occurrence either, as we have seen similar struggles before in Monaco.