Amanda Evans2 said:But my real question is this: how are we supposed to react to civil disobedience? Or does the enforcement of laws and mandates from the relevant US government authorities simply carry no weight when dealing with citizens over the age of 50?...
You took the words right out of my mouth. That’s exactly what I was thinking.
Matthew Anderson4 said:it's a failure, sure, but what else was he supposed to do?
Wrong approach. Way too heavy-handed for what it actually is and the type of person we're talking about. Honestly, there are much bigger fish to fry. Police should be focusing on actual crime instead of wasting resources like this.
So when believers kiss God and start calling it a "meeting with the Almighty," then end up dying for that same symbolism... isn't that basically the same thing?
Robin Fox2 said:Walter Grant5, don't overstate things. Sure, nobody alive today is responsible for anything, but we are all heirs to some nation, culture, or civilization—call it whatever you like... We might not be that here, but if we're being honest, there are other nations in the European Union at much higher levels of cultural and economic development, which is actually more relevant to our discussion. A group of Danes certainly doesn't owe anyone anything, and from what I can see, they aren't looking for a fight or trying to dominate anyone; they used to give the Germans hell regularly, but aside from that, they aren't imperialists. Neither are the Slovaks, the Czechs, the Poles, or any of those other groups.
Of course, you could walk up to them and say it with a straight face—that what they have isn't their own doing—but that’s just ridiculous and pointless. Especially since history itself proves you wrong...
Everyone is an heir to something. Realistically, you just need the basics for a decent life. Enough space to live in, nothing more. You deserve that, and so does a kid born anywhere else. Everything else is luxury. Look, I've got nothing against having nice things, and everyone deserves a certain amount of comfort, but I'm not going to feel uncomfortable just because someone on the other side of the world is chasing a better life. I want a better life too. If an opportunity pops up, I'm grabbing it.
History doesn't contradict me; it confirms it. You're born, and life can screw you over in a good way or a really bad way. If you get a lucky break, fine, thank God, but don't complain if someone is just out there fighting for their basic survival. Don't be a jerk.
And so what if we're heirs to some culture? What kind of certificate is that? If you were kidnapped and sold into some crap situation, what would you be then? An heir to nothing. Stop whining. Enjoy what you have and let people fight for something better. It’s not like they're fighting for a swimming pool like they "earned" it. This is about staying alive.
It’s not even about telling someone they didn't earn it; it’s about realizing that some people simply aren't responsible for the hand they were dealt.
Sandra Johnson58 said:Man, I feel you. It sucks that life isn't basically Star Trek, but whatever. Anyway, I get what you're saying about how comparing you to them is a stretch, but let's look at it theoretically for a second. Like, imagine if suddenly 800,000 Syrians showed up at the borders of the USA or Australia, and a huge chunk of them had zero ways to even prove who they were. How do you think their requests would go over? Just as an example, I actually know someone who ended up in the States as a refugee from Canada through family connections. He first went to Germany in '93, then moved to the US with his wife and kids in '95. And he’s definitely not the only one; there are tons of people like him. I don't even need to go into all the hoops he had to jump through during the process, regardless of him being a refugee.
I get that, but just because it's the way things are doesn't mean it's right. Most global power players were basically violent migrants and conquerors themselves back in the day. This is just the fallout. Deal with it.
Look, I don't really see people through the lens of being Americans, Germans, Brits, or whatever else. To me, everyone is just an individual stuck with whatever nationalistic nonsense they were fed growing up. I know my way of thinking is probably too utopian and impossible to actually pull off in the real world, but I honestly believe that kind of mindset is the only way we ever move past these endless cycles of bullshit.
Also, comparing my own situation—or even the idea of me packing up and moving to somewhere like Australia—to this massive global crisis is just pointless.
Look, you're definitely in no position to judge where the US stands right now. I'm assuming since you're even hanging out on this forum typing away, your actual survival isn't on the line. Don't go pointing fingers at people who are just out here trying to hit the bare minimum to get by.
You're basically just hitting a brick wall here. When you're born into a world of millions, that somebody else built is just there. If you're born into filth and sickness, that's also the result of someone else. It's not like Germans created everything out of thin air, and neither did Syrians. It’s just this insanely complicated chain of events where the people you're pointing fingers at aren't the cause—they're actually just the collateral damage.
Yeah. My uncle would probably just drive me straight to Germany and honestly, from that perspective, life would be a lot better there.
But whatever, it doesn't even matter. Things aren't the same. Even in Syria, in the zones they're dealing with, nothing is going to look anything like our situation anytime soon.
Talking about stuff hypothetically is one thing, but actually being a refugee from Syria is a whole different ballgame. So, you armchair experts scrolling on your iPhones, just back off. You’re lucky enough to have been born where you were, which means you can spend your days messing around online, grabbing coffee with friends after work, catching a game or a movie at night, doing whatever hobbies you want... if a better life was actually offered to you, you’d take it in a heartbeat. So quit your whining.
loneseal said:Abnormal circumstances drive people to abnormal actions. If you’ve been stuck in a chaotic environment for years, you aren't going to have the same perspective on things as someone who grew up in a stable, normal setting. For a Syrian guy, killing is just something happening constantly right next to him—it's his daily reality. It makes sense he won't be reacting to murder with the same shock as some Dane. It isn't about being "normal" or "abnormal," it's about what you see every single day.
And it’s not about stigmatizing Islam like some "intellectual" concluded, because I'm pretty sure if we were talking about a Canadian immigrant, we wouldn't be seeing this level of pushback.
Some people live their whole lives in a cozy little bubble of selfish escapism, dodging any real responsibility. So when things actually shift, they act like the world is falling apart.
Joseph Clark37 said:I find nothing more powerful than the works of artists from all walks of life who simply wage war against the status quo... offering up these utopian visions that have zero connection to reality. Just play, paint, or sing, and leave the nonsense alone.
honestly, people just do that. it's what you do on this forum too, for instance. instead of just doing your job and staying quiet like you suggested.
Personally, I know an American who uses every dirty trick in the book—call it the American way if you want—to exploit another country's economic perks. We've got all kinds of people like that.
loneseal said:Living space has always been divided up; people have always split things into "ours" and "theirs." And let’s be real, they’ve always tried to grab what belongs to someone else. These local good Samaritans act like they’re blind, pretending they don't see the fact that most of America is totally uncomfortable with these newcomers because of who they are, what they bring, and how they look at us. If we were talking about taking in Canadians or Estonians, nobody would be pushing back like this. But when you’re dealing with groups where you have more than enough evidence that they won't assimilate—and could potentially harbor a bunch of unstable terrorists—that’s a whole different story.
There are plenty of unstable terrorists among our own ranks, too. History is just one long list of violent conquerors fighting over territory just to live a decent life.
This whole concept of nation-states and carving up territory as if it belongs to some collective consciousness called "national identity" is going to vanish in any sophisticated future. Too bad that future is a long way off. Honestly, I couldn't care less about anyone vaping on the idea of "national diversity."
You’re born into some random mess, they hand you a name and a national stamp, and suddenly you're expected to live in this garbage—something that isn't even a result of your own actions, just because it's written down somewhere? A person should have a right to a basic "starter kit" for life. This obsession with claiming a specific square footage where you can have a decent house, while obsessively clinging to some imaginary version of "your" America, Russia, England, France, America, Mexico, China, Korea, ISIS, etc., is nothing but collective egomania. Now migration is illegal, but when the elites were busy running rackets and colonizing the globe, drawing lines wherever they felt like it? Wasn't an issue. Suddenly, everything belongs to someone. Forget it. It's because of you that the world looks like this. Now they're allowing migration into their USA for US Mexicans. Give me a break—who was actually living on the land that makes up this unfortunate USA anyway?
Now I'm just waiting for Robby to chime in and say—the world isn't perfect.
Dennis Evans6 said:I’m not quite following your point—are you suggesting we should only focus our commentary on Syrian refugees entering Turkey? Why is this one specific child being held up as such a special case? Was he really the first kid to drown on the route from Syria to Turkey? Based on Jergović’s writing, they found him on a beach in Bodrum. I don't know much about refugee routes, but I imagine there are plenty of other nearby beaches people would flee toward to escape a war... or maybe the goal was actually Greece, and they figured they’d just get stuck in some camp in Turkey if they stayed? Honestly, I find it exhausting when people try to pull at the heartstrings like this; seeing images of people drowning in the Mediterranean is horrific enough without being prompted by emotional appeals. I don't need the photos of kids to feel the weight of it. The whole refugee crisis needs to be tackled at its source; letting people slip through the cracks like this and essentially incentivizing human smuggling is just going to lead to more people drowning in the water.
Let me clear this up. A kid under ten who drowned and was found face-down in the sand isn't an "economic migrant." The point is fucking crystal clear.
Was he the first child to drown? No. That’s a great reason to just close our eyes and look away, right?
He's just a tragic, extreme example. It’s like if some soccer player collapses on the pitch—he's not the first person to die from those symptoms, but you still feel bad. He’s an example. It’s not like that little kid is worth more than any other kid, or more than you or me. He's a case study. It would be the same if you had a heart attack right now and someone, after I posted how sorry I am and mentioned I was talking to you, some idiot comes along and says, "Well, you aren't the first guy to have a heart attack." Like, fuck off. Little kids shouldn't be found face-down in the sand because of "economic migration." Are you guys for real?
If someone told you, after God forbid you found your own son or daughter like that, that they weren't the first or last, you'd lose your mind.
frozencobra50 said:All jokes aside... anyone actually using their brain is fully aware that the situation in Syria right now is an absolute catastrophe. But when you take a realistic look at the facts, you realize a massive group of Syrians are just leveraging this chaos to worm their way into countries that half of Europe dreams of living in. I feel for people, truly, but even I don't know what I'd do if I were in Angela Merkel's shoes. Would I take in 800,000 of them? Or just take 100,000 and tell the rest to get lost... I personally know a girl—really sweet kid—who is an economic migrant from Syria. Her father studied medicine in Chicago, her mother is from Mostar, and they lived in Syria until things started "boiling over." After that, they fled to Sweden and stayed there for a while (both of them work; the dad is a doctor, the mom is a teacher). Then, Sweden sends them to Canada because they can easily get citizenship there, which obviously doesn't sit well with them. People are going to such extremes that they’ve even divorced; three minors are left staying with their father in Sweden because, after the divorce, he doesn't have the right to Canadian citizenship, while she travels to Mostar with her brother and mother. That's how they'll live until the old man finally gets Swedish citizenship, and then they'll reunite. If they were genuine war refugees, they'd be happy to settle in Canada without all this hassle...
They should just send them back to Syria. Who gives a damn?