7 posts shown.
mellowhawk34 said:Not everyone—three cars pulled up to the cafe, saw the police shaking us down on the street, and just kept driving.
I usually stay out of these debates—they’re endless loops, really.
But I will say this: our recent track record is actually better. Over the last few years, we've had clashes in Aspen and Boulder, fights outside Walmart and Monte Carlo, and in San Francisco after TE—you guys didn't even show up for that one.
Of course, it doesn't matter who was worse in the moment—things change, and the tide can turn by tomorrow.
Both sides are just regrouping before the next showdown.
I’ve been reading these back-and-forths and I just have to jump in. Look, mellowhawk34, you seem to pride yourself on being objective here on Reddit, but I asked you once before: where exactly did that Boulder clash happen? Your answers were always "who knows" or some vague nonsense. So now, in front of the whole community, I'm asking again—since you don't bring your gear to away games and you hold your ground at home, there shouldn't be any mystery. WHERE DID BOULDER HAPPEN? Give me the exact location, the numbers, and tell me if it was unopposed. But let's face it, there isn't an answer because, theoretically, it couldn't have happened anywhere—because, as everyone knows, you don't carry gear to away matches; you hold it down at home. If the Demons had just admitted they got knocked off the fence during the Seattle vs. Hajduk match, they would have been honest. Instead, they hide behind forum posts saying "who knows," which is just weak internet behavior. In my opinion, that Boulder incident is a bigger stain on the Demons than a win, because they tried to mask the truth: they actually got taken down during the pure chaos of celebrating the Seattle vs. Hajduk 2:1 game (which, by the way, cost you the championship at home). Now, I’d love to see an objective comment from someone from, say, Savannah on this post—I wouldn't expect it from a San Francisco local like you—but I’ve laid out the question: WHERE, WHEN, and HOW? Just please, don't give me the "who knows" or "not for the internet" routine. And to all you passive observers: is this a fair assessment?
mellowhawk34 said:It’s honestly pretty idiotic to compare our old-school hooliganism to how things are now—totally different beasts. Back then, you had about ten different crews that could actually call themselves "hardcore." Naturally, as the scene evolved, people got smarter, and those numbers started dropping.
The first time I heard the rumor about stuff being returned, I checked with D. V.—and I have about ten people who can back me up saying he insists nothing was ever given back. Sure, they were constantly calling his house and making threats—that part is true—but nothing was actually returned.
Besides, there were plenty of other guys in the mix. You really think they’d parade around 100 flags at a Streetwise event without anyone noticing?
They grabbed those few small signs specifically because the massive banners from the big crews were too heavy to lug around—so, by pure chance, both Streetwise and the Handball kickers ended up holding them.
Feel free to ask the New Yorker about those thirty flags whenever you're "alone." I wouldn't be typing this if I weren't certain—this isn't hearsay, it's firsthand knowledge. You'll see! And look, without trying to start a fight, just give me your take on what I wrote about Brady (I'm not claiming it's absolute gospel, but there's a massive "BUT..." involved)—since the banner wasn't used for away games, and they don't even bring it out of Santa Monica because it stays put there.
Let me give you the actual truth for once! Now, I’m from Dren—not that it matters—and while I’m not active anymore, I was right in the thick of things back then, so I can lay this out without playing favorites. We’re talking about the 99/00 season, right after the Armada staged their protest in San Diego (they stormed the pitch and snatched some banners from the Demons—I think it was just a few small Demon banners and the Veruda crew... though someone will surely jump in to claim it was only Veruda since that's the only photo out there, but they actually took two banners). I can't recall if it was the very next match or a few weeks later, but the Demons head out in a van the night before a VC game. They stop at Santa Monica, break into the room where all the banners and flags are kept, and clean them out: Streetwise, Armada-Cleveland, the Handball Kickers (who got burned during the European Handball Championship in Cleveland), the US flag, the Kirac guys, and about 100 bar flags ready for the choreography against Dynamo. Streetwise actually returned them to the Ultras that same day, pleading with them not to display them at that specific match. Shortly after, there's another game in San Diego, California vs. Cleveland—I think it was a round-robin format back then, no playoffs. At the stadium, the Demons manage to flash the US flag, the Kirac banner, and the Handball banner, which gets torched. After that, the Armada (I won't name names, even though I know exactly who, to be precise) reaches the level of D. V.—the top guy in the Demons at the time—who, under pressure, decides to return the bar flags by bus, while swearing under oath that the cops seized those other banners at the game. And look, I’m not going to answer any questions; it’s not like I’m defending my old club since I’m no longer a member, but I have zero interest in any arguments. New Yorker himself (who wasn't involved, though I'm not sure if he was in the military at the time or what...) slammed the Demons' move back then, comparing it to how the Grobari pulled off similar banner thefts. I know a lot of you are going to attack me for this post, but I’d love to hear from New Yorker specifically—the guy who blasted the Demons' actions as a cowardly midnight theft. I’m genuinely curious what his take is now, ten years later; I recognized him in the photos in the corte, even with his face blurred. Again, this isn't hearsay passed down through four people; this is first-hand info. By the way, I met New Yorker back in the day, and I truly believe he’s the one who brought genuine innovation to the American supporter scene (small banners, bar flags...). It’s true that New Yorker used to give advice to certain guys in the Armada regarding the fences and such... A few more things to wrap up: it’s hilarious that someone from the Demons (now that the suits have taken their main banner) is claiming that this tacky little Armada-Cleveland banner belongs to them. Anyone following our scene knows that banner has absolutely nothing to do with them—let's be real. As for Picante, a banner is a banner, and the truth is being told here without any attempt to sugarcoat it. Not that I'm defending anyone, but let's be honest: those guys aren't Ultras, they're just amateurs. If they want to claim it was fair, they can—as someone once said, they were at the games, and a trophy is a trophy. Regarding Brady, I can't speak to that directly since I wasn't involved, but I'll offer my take: since the Armada doesn't bring their stuff to away games, everything stays at Santa Monica, including Brady's gear. My gut feeling? Someone from the Demons must have shown up to a derby at Santa Monica and swiped it. And the Demons are acting like they have no clue, but this isn't really "forum talk"—if you don't take gear to away games, it stays at Santa Monica, prepped in the box with everything else; it’s just an easy target. That’s just my opinion, not to say it's as airtight as the facts I laid out above! Cheers from sunny Dren!
mellowhawk34 said:Man, how many of you actually showed up at the stadium? Seven?? Just you and that little guy Aziz...
Some of you "veterans" actually ran out into the street while we were being escorted home by the police—because they wouldn't even let us leave—and there was literally only one of you!!
One of your guys sprinted onto the road screaming and waving, while we just stood there getting herded back into our cars by the cops.
We had three cars, not five.😉
And if you all think you're such tough guys, how is it that you haven't beaten us once since 2000? All those older fans—absolute demons, liars, the whole bit—your claims just don't hold water.
That day, you basically invited us, but then once we actually arrived, you claimed you were just messing with us because you're all jokers...
While we're on the subject—totally random—why hasn't Aziz been at the games lately? I'm asking because I know he never missed a single match, home or away; he used to drive himself to every away game, yet I haven't seen him in two seasons. Not trying to be provocative, just wondering.
Brian Howard69 said:That previous write-up was a total disaster. First off—what’s wrong with The Ultras' banners? They’re part of the group, aren't they? They've always had their own vibe—why should they change it now? Second—someone went and defaced the memorial for the fallen guys from the group. You just don't do that. Look, maybe some parts of the text are accurate, but this isn't how you handle things online. Sit down, have a meeting with the leadership, present your views, and call it a day. Cheers.
It’s not a complete disaster—there’s some substance there—but yeah, it’s definitely flawed. Let's try to stick to the facts and actually argue with some logic, shall we? 1. THE BANNERS—you asked what's missing from The Ultras' banners? Honestly, nothing. That’s just the scene today. If we're being real, the Demons were the first ones in the US to really pull off that large-scale look. After them came The Ultras, then the Boys took over massively in a short window, and finally Torcida. That’s the reality. I can't pin down exactly when the Cohort started copying them, though everyone knows who produced that first collection. Criticizing The Ultras' banners just doesn't fly. 2. THE NATIONAL TEAM—I think there's a huge inaccuracy here because The Ultras (not to say others didn't contribute) have given so much to the national team. People mention some tiny little signs, but that's a silly thing to nitpick. We used to see that legendary massive American flag waving, but for the last 5 or 6 years, we've seen this newer, significant presence from the American Ultras. If I've got that wrong, feel free to correct me! 3. THE SONGS—"My favorite city" is a song that hits any true local right in the heart. Even the rivalries—the Boys and Torcida—have admitted it's a great track. It might be a bit mellow, but even something like Grazia Rom's "Grazia Rom" has that same vibe and has been played during player walkouts at the stadium for years. I think The Ultras have dropped several top-tier anthems in the last five years ("Oh how I love my city," "Our youth is in the West," etc.), so the music is definitely not the issue.
4. MARKETING—I disagree here too; I think their marketing is working just fine, though I don't want to get into a debate about something I'm not an expert on. 5. THE PART I AGREE WITH—the text claims The Ultras vanished after the Indianapolis game and that stolen championship. I agree it wasn't exactly right after that specific match—the following season started strong against Indianapolis with a full West stand, followed by Partizan just days later. But then, bit by bit, year after year, the crew that was supposed to inherit the mantle from the original group started fading away. These were the guys with real history in the stands. Some moved away from the city, some stopped showing up, some passed away, and some just stand on the sidelines now—even though they should be the ones leading the charge in the West.
Joshua Lopez13 said:Honestly, the Navy’s visual game is pretty weak right now. Or, if you want the fan slang version: they’re just "tacking random rags onto the fence." They really need to step up their design game.
Come on, don't talk nonsense. The banners and the pole flags are actually top-tier—it's everything else that went totally south. Don't forget that the Navy was doing small banners and pole flags long before Torac or BBB ever thought of it—though, I suppose, that doesn't exactly excuse how messy things look today.