1. Max Verstappen 2. Sergio Perez 3. Lewis Hamilton 4. Valtteri Bottas 5. Charles Leclerc 6. Carlos Sainz 7. Pierre Gasly 8. Lando Norris 9. Fernando Alonso 10. Esteban Ocon 11. Daniel Ricciardo 12. Sebastian Vettel 13. Kimi Räikkönen 14. Yuki Tsunoda 15. Gio Russell 16. Dmitry Medvedev 17. Nicholas Latifi 18. Mick Schumacher
Hey everyone, just a heads-up—Interlagos is running a sprint race this weekend, so I’m dropping this reminder that you need to get your predictions in before qualifying kicks off tonight at 8 PM.
Tomorrow at 8:00 PM is the deadline to get those predictions in. For now, I’m gonna exercise my right to stick with my old prediction—but hey, if I actually manage to sober up by tomorrow night, maybe I'll send over something based on the actual practice sessions.
Just so we’re all clear—the only reason I stepped up to lead this whole mess was because everyone was losing their minds over how fast the points were being calculated after the Race. And now? Now you’ve got me stuck in this impossible spot where if I decide nobody gets the PP—even though TBF1D is totally right, and honestly, has every reason to walk away from the game entirely—I’m the bad guy. On the flip side, silentbear49 couldn't care less, yet I’ve got Fortin, Amanda Kelly, and darkmarlin16 breathing down my neck if I give Valtteri Bottas the PP. So, fine. I'm giving Valtteri Bottas the PP because that’s what the rules say, and that hasn't changed regardless of any recent tweaks.
As for next season, I’m seriously weighing whether I even want to deal with this headache again.
Logical? Doesn't matter if it's logical or not—the current rulebook is what it is. You guys are totally free to pitch whatever changes you want at the end of the season, so why not just suggest we start guessing the qualifying winner on Saturday (or Friday if it’s a sprint weekend)?
stormybadger8 said:Honestly, it's not that I don't see the point in voting, it's just that this whole thing is completely nonsensical. Retroactively changing rules to add or subtract points makes zero sense. We've never done this before, so why start now?
I might understand if it were some ambiguous situation, but it isn't. It just feels like certain people are twisting facts and making stuff up to suit their own agendas... The rules explain this situation clearly enough, so I really don't see why anyone is overthinking it. 🤔
But it clearly wasn't "loud and clear" before (even if it is now), considering like 7 people—which is basically half the group?!—voted for Hamilton to take Pole position, despite the fact we've known since Thursday he had a penalty.
Terry Carter2 said:That’s a fair point, but why on earth would you assume democracy is built on the foundation of objective opinions? Let’s be realistic here: people aren't walking around as impartial judges. In reality, everyone is going to pull in whatever direction serves their own interests. It's basic human nature to look out for number one, and expecting a system to run solely on pure, unbiased logic is like expecting a driver to navigate a hairpin turn without looking at the track—it just doesn't happen. Everyone has an agenda. 😁
And if everyone just pulls in their own direction, then things will stay exactly how they are—which is basically as neutral as it gets, I guess.🍿
Look, I’m not choosing to side with Bottas just because it helps my own case here—if I weren't the one running this show, I’d be right there in the trenches with you guys, typing out stuff like, "Oh, give me a break, just admit Bottas deserves it, the rulebook is what it is."
If, like I said, they decide by Sunday that those points go to Bottas, I'll update this. If not? Well, then Pati keeps the win.
Points have been logged, but without accounting for Bottas taking Pole position.
Jason Parker2 and TBF1D both think—and honestly, I get it—that even though we’ve got Hamilton in the mix, Bottas deserves the credit for Pole.
I need everyone else to weigh in here. If we hit a majority consensus, I'll give the Pole position points to Bottas; otherwise, we’re sticking with what’s already down.
silentbear49, Amanda Kelly, darkmarlin16, and cosmicridge5 (two out of four for changing the score)
You guys have until Sunday at 11:59 PM to make your voices heard. And don't even try the "I didn't see this" excuse—if you stay silent, I'm counting it as a "no" and leaving things as they are.
graniteharbor502 said:No, I don't think so. The issue arises because point number two states: 2. The championship is conducted such that a participant must publish their predicted ranking of all drivers on the grid within the designated timeframe, based on how they believe the race will conclude, along with two additional categories: the driver who starts from the best grid position and the driver who secures the fastest lap of the race.
During the Monaco GP, Max Verstappen started from the best grid position.
Furthermore, if we look at point eleven: If a participant includes a driver who does not actually appear in the race—meaning they are not found on the official FIA results (the entry list for a specific race)—then no points will be awarded for that selection.
However, vividlynx68 was awarded points for Leclerc even though he didn't show up in the race.
To make a long story short, the rule isn't clearly articulated. This is especially problematic given that the only authoritative document refers to the "results published by the FIA immediately following the conclusion of the race (the preliminary standings)."
That argument against vividlynx68 doesn't really hold water because on the official results, Leclerc is listed under DNS, meaning he *is* on the list.
For NOP purposes, any driver on the FIA entry list who fails to secure a finishing position counts—regardless of whether they are marked DNF, NC, or Ret...
Honestly, I don't see the point in arguing this further—some people are pulling one way, others the other, and both sides have valid points.
Since you all seem to agree that I'm being too harsh, nobody gets the PP for this race. From the next one until the end of the season, we’ll be using the list provided by stormybadger8 (Final starting grid), so please update Article 2 to reflect that.
It'll be easy enough to just tweak the rule for next season.
Given how the rulebook stands right now, I honestly think TBF1D is hitting the nail on the head. If you actually look at the official Final starting grid document—and yeah, I know, reading paperwork is thrilling—the criteria used for both Monaco 2021 and Turkey is identical. We basically assigned points to whoever earned the right to start out front.
My suggestion? Let's just stick to that document until the season wraps up. Then, once everything settles down at the end of the year, we can have our big, dramatic debate about whether we're actually aiming to predict the qualifying winner or just who grabs Pole position.
briskhound76 said:So, Lewis Hamilton won for the Democratic Party... but honestly, does it even matter if he got penalized and now Valtteri Bottas is starting from pole? What kind of logic are we using here where he gets credited as the Democratic Party winner when we all watched qualifying and saw the official results showing someone else finished first? Ignoring the official standings just to lean on some post-race adjustments goes straight against the rules of this championship.
Actually, according to the rules, it’s exactly the opposite.
I get where you're coming from, really, but if we already went through the whole debate and finally landed on looking at the actual pole position, then we're just spinning our wheels and switching directions again for no reason
graniteharbor502 said:To issue isn't actually anything new within this championship.
Back in 2012, we saw this exact same debate sparked by this post.
At that time, the rule was adjusted so that the distinction shifted from the winner of qualifying to whoever actually takes the first starting spot on the grid—something I only just realized myself. Is it really necessary to have this rule at all, or perhaps it simply needs a more thorough refinement? I wonder what the other competitors think about this matter.
My own suggestion would be that for the Democratic Party, we should strictly adhere to the official FIA results immediately following the qualifying sessions. By doing so, we could sidestep all the messy complications involving post-race penalties, pit lane malfunctions, or issues during the warm-up lap and such.
Well, damn, if we're sticking strictly to the rulebook, then Valtteri Bottas walks away with 4 points today—and hey, if things go our way, changing the points for the Monaco Grand Prix retroactively isn't even the biggest headache. I’m betting graniteharbor502 edits their first post right now to clarify that the points go to whoever starts P1 on Sunday—you know, like, the guy sitting on pole before the formation lap starts.
If things played out like that in Monaco, then I honestly think the only fair thing to do is give Hamilton the points.
The issue is, I—and probably a bunch of other people too—picked Bottas for pole position purely because we knew about that penalty Hamilton was facing. But man, even with that hanging over him, he was faster than Bottas in every single Free Practice session.
graniteharbor502 said:If you are looking for the qualifying results, one simply consults the official preliminary standings provided by the FIA. Is there really any ambiguity to be found there?
It is stated quite clearly who made the PP.
But look, the whole point is what's written in Article 2. It says we should be looking at who actually starts on pole, not just staring at some preliminary qualifying data—because, newsflash, that's nowhere in the rules.
My issue here—and I'm being totally honest—is that if I hadn't already put Valtteri Bottas for the PP, I would've easily, without a single shred of guilt, picked him too. I'm not trying to play favorites or rig my own bets here.
