Posts by wearygull20

redheron12 said:I’m fully expecting this thread to turn into an absolute bloodbath once the race is over... total chaos... everyone going at each other... 🧐

That whole debate about Lewis Hamilton and Mark Webber back in Singapore... it just seemed to drag on forever...🤣

Even Joso had his say regarding the whole incident... he finally laid out his perspective on what went down. ☕

silvercobra68 is back....👍

Jason Campbell70 said:He took the ideal racing line.

Unlike Webber, who went off the curb in an attempt to dive back in front after already losing the position.

If you ask me, Webber isn't forcing anything; he's holding the inside line without making any sudden moves. He hits the kerb simply because Lewis Hamilton isn't leaving him any room. As they enter the turn, Hamilton has half a car ahead, and when the contact happens—or even more than that—he suddenly swerves left (or chooses the "racing line," whatever you want to call it) and slams right into Webber.

I agree that the driver in front has the right to choose their line, but in my view, this overtake wasn't a done deal yet.

If we blindly accept the logic that the driver slightly ahead always dictates the path, then every single overtake becomes a trap. A driver could just nudge slightly ahead and swerve into the other person, forcing them to brake or crash because "they chose the line." Where is the actual racing in that? Where is the fight for position?

Hamilton is playing the "innocent bystander" card, acting as if he didn't see Webber—which might be possible due to a blind spot—but he likely assumed the pass was complete. Even so, the onboard footage clearly shows he could have seen Webber right there next to him before the corner, refusing to give up.

To me, it looked purely Schumacher-esque... slam the door, deny the other driver any breathing room, and just power through. But the guy on the inside wouldn't be intimidated, and... boom.

So, the only fault here lies with Hamilton—and that's a fault against himself, since he's the one out of the race—for failing to leave a bit more space. If he had just taken the outside line through the corner, he would have been 100% clear and ahead.

I also have to admit, I'd probably be absolutely livid if it were Fernando Alonso who crashed out like that. Maybe I'm not being objective enough. When I saw them collide, I couldn't help but crack a smile, much like that mechanic back at the Ferrari pit box... 😁

I don't know, there have been plenty of arguments thrown around regarding this situation, and I’ve gone back and watched it several times now.

Mark Webber maintains a pretty consistent line the whole time—he’s on the flat part, enters the corner on the inside, and looking at his trajectory through the turn, he could have easily cleared it with enough room for two cars to pass him on the right side.

Lewis Hamilton, on the other hand, is about half a car ahead on the straight, enters the corner on the outside, and then decides to close the door on Webber. That’s actually my biggest question... why didn't he just take the corner normally? He had the space, and he definitely would have stayed ahead.🤷

Since Webber was driving like nothing was happening, sticking to his inside line, while Lewis went out of his way to close him out, I’d say Lewis is more "responsible" for this collision. Not even close to being the one at fault...

And honestly, Webber seems less responsible here than he was in that collision with Sebastian Vettel. In this case, he sticks to his line and leaves a massive amount of room for Hamilton, he simply refuses to yield because he's fighting for the title! In the incident with Sebastian Vettel, he doesn't leave any room, pushes Sebastian Vettel aside, and then when he thinks Webber is going to move, he swerves hard into him.

Ultimately, this is just a racing incident between two stubborn drivers who refused to budge from their intentions—Webber refusing to give up an inch, and Lewis trying to slam the door before he’d even fully overtaken Webber with his entire car.

Though, of course, the Australian was lucky to walk away from that hit unscathed!

Does anyone actually root for Mark Webber anymore? 🤷

I can't think of a single soul.... poor Webber, nobody seems to care for him...😢

Between that business with Seb and now this situation with Hemić, I honestly don't think anyone will even bother trying to overtake him on the track for the rest of the season.... 😂

There’s going to be plenty more tactical maneuvering and head games coming, without a doubt. Back when Ross Brawn was running things at Ferrari, I felt relatively relaxed about how they handled strategy and outsmarting the field... but this current crew? They just don't inspire much confidence in me...

I just went back through the footage of the pit stops, timing everything myself with a stopwatch.
The Red Bull crew starts moving out 15 seconds (!!!) before Sebastian Vettel even hits his marks. Seven seconds after that, he’s already doing 80 through the pit lane heading straight toward them. Meanwhile, the Ferrari crew steps out just 2 seconds after the Red Bull guys. From the moment the mechanics move until the second Sebastian Vettel peels away on fresh rubber, we're looking at a total of 20 seconds. In my view, that is about as fast as a pit stop can be executed. It seems simple enough, but Ferrari had an impeccable strategy—they clearly practiced this until they perfected it, and that's exactly why they won the race.

As for which car was actually faster, here is the raw data from the race:

............Lap 16....................Lap 17....................... ..............lap 18
Alonso: 1.51.666..................1.51.814................ ..................1.51.317
Seb: +0.28.....................+0.42................... ...................+0.4

Gap at Lap 17: 3.168

Sebastian Vettel was faster during laps 23, 24, and 25, which narrowed the gap down to 2.092. Then, immediately on lap 27, Alonso finds another gear and runs 0.4 faster than Sebastian Vettel.

The way I see it, he built up that three-second cushion by lap 17 through means other than just being faster than Sebastian Vettel. So, leading up to the pit entry on lap 30, Sebastian Vettel was likely only faster for maybe 4 or 5 laps... maybe a few more...

wiredtiger8 said:What am I talking about?
I'm talking about the fact that Red Bull could—and should—be practicing these tactical maneuvers so they aren't caught off guard.
Think about it: Sebastian Vettel dives into the pits and only *then* does the crew scramble... they have a solid 7 to 10 seconds before the car actually reaches the mechanics. That is more than enough time for a crew that isn't running around like headless chickens.
And let's be real, this isn't some groundbreaking tactical genius stuff... we saw this kind of chess match back in the 1998-1999 seasons during those legendary battles between McLaren and Ferrari.

The bottom line is this: if you have the car in second place and you're clearly faster on track (which was obviously the case with Sebastian Vettel), you hold the tactical upper hand when it comes to pit strategy.
Now, whether you can actually turn that theoretical advantage into a win on Sunday is a whole different story. Red Bull clearly can't.

So yeah, that's my point...

I'm with mistybear87 on this one. First off, your reasoning that Sebastian Vettel was the fastest on track doesn't really hold water, considering how the fastest lap times kept swinging between him and Fernando Alonso throughout the race...☕

Secondly, you’re such an absolute perfectionist. You’d need a full 12 seconds just to account for the crew stepping out (7-8 seconds) and the tire change itself (3-4 seconds). So according to you, after 15 seconds, the mechanics are already just sitting there relaxing in the pit box... I'd love to see that happen once in my life! 🙏

wiredtiger8 said:There’s one thing nobody seems to be paying attention to... and unfortunately, neither are the stewards.
Basically, regarding that "incident" between Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton, the blame actually lies with those trailing Lotus drivers. Instead of clearing out immediately once the SC came in, they just sat there stalling—especially Webber—which basically handed Lewis his opening to attack.
I have no clue why the officials don't penalize stuff like this... I mean, what is Jarno Trulli doing hovering five or six corners ahead of Webber when he's got Hamilton breathing down his neck like absolute fire?
Besides, if we look back at when Michael Schumacher didn't play fair by failing to clear out Alonso and Sebastian Vettel right away...
When people just lack common sense, the only thing that works is a penalty... specifically a fine.
That’s how you make them learn the rules fast.
That being said, I don't personally think what happened between Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton warrants a penalty.

Oh, and before I forget... let's talk about another "brilliant" tactical move from Red Bull... truly "fantastic" timing on that pit stop.
I honestly can't remember a single team in history—especially one fighting for a championship—that has made such a string of catastrophically bad decisions.

These "new" drivers who seem to be running their own private championship just to avoid finishing last (per Neven Novak 🤣) are an unbelievable danger on track. Every single time, it's some kind of absolute mess with them. I've watched the footage of the lap when the Safety Car peels off several times, and it's glaringly obvious that that trailing Lotus caused the whole mess by slowing Webber down, allowing Hamilton to make the move, and then... well, history was made.🙂

But hey, as long as we have 183 teams on the grid, who cares if they're a hazard to themselves and everyone else, or if they directly interfere with the title fight. Go Bernie! 😠