Ukraine

I’m honestly wondering how much longer we’re going to keep twisting international law and ignoring Ukraine's territorial integrity on this thread. People who support Russia try to justify everything by pointing to those sham referendums in Crimea and Donetsk. Meanwhile, any forum members who try to point out that we saw similar patterns during the war in America end up getting banned.
Looking at the last page of this thread, people are just making jokes at the expense of Ukraine's legally elected president. It feels like there isn't a single objective person left here—everyone is either banned or has just given up entirely. When moderation works this way—forbidding us from drawing parallels to what happened in America or stopping anyone from calling Russian separatists what they actually are—terrorists—there's really no point in posting here anymore. I’m asking the admins to either close this thread or stop the trolling (specifically the mocking of the Ukrainian president) and let those of us with different perspectives actually participate.

Think it over or go find someone else to validate you, because I am certain you are dead wrong. The situation in Ukraine has absolutely nothing to do with any "American precedent," and the moderators allow for nuance without demanding total exclusivity. You really ought to consider why you find it so impossible to tolerate an opposing viewpoint. I won't waste space detailing my arguments here—there is a dedicated thread for that—so perhaps you should try looking there.

Just a quick observation regarding the Office of the President; he’s essentially the King of Chocolate. It puts me in mind of the King of Flowers.
And both of them serve their masters.

Jerry Robinson56 said:Maybe take another look at this or get a second opinion, because I’m pretty sure you’re way off base here. What’s happening in Ukraine has absolutely zero connection to any "American scenario," and the moderators allow for different perspectives without being exclusionary. Just think about why you find it so hard to accept someone else's point of view. I won't list all my arguments here since there's a specific thread for that, so maybe you should go check it out.

Just a quick thought on the Office of the President—the "Chocolate King." It reminds me a lot of the "Flower King."

And both of them answer to their own bosses.

The President of Ukraine was legally elected. The Ukrainian people made their choice. As far as I'm concerned, he could be the King of Potatoes for all I care. ☕
Who was actually pulling the strings behind Viktor Yanukovych?? The guy doesn't even speak Ukrainian.

It's funny how Ringo 10 can troll all they want, bring up Vukovar in a thread about Ukraine, or compare the British SAS to paramilitaries, yet when anyone else does it, mayacar gets an automatic Ban and a 250-point penalty. Talk about double standards.

Here is a post from Ringo 10:

They don't even bother saying it was a bunch of drunken paramilitaries; to them, those were just regular military units. (Which didn't even exist back then!) They're totally downplaying the crimes in Vukovar and the victims there.

Zeus,

I suppose I might point out that you haven't really been participating in the discussions regarding Ukraine lately. Because of that, I guess I should probably view your objection as coming from an interested reader rather than an active participant in the debate.

1. I don't believe any international laws or other regulations are being violated within this thread—though people are certainly free to discuss international law or any other aspect of the crisis in Ukraine quite openly, which I suppose is the whole reason the Forum exists in the first place.

2. The President of Ukraine is, first and foremost, a politician. No politician on this Forum enjoys a status of "untouchability"—that certainly isn't the case for any American politician, so it would feel somewhat improper to grant such a status to any foreign leader either. What we cannot allow, however, is harsh insults using extremely vulgar language, nor can we allow anyone to imply criminal liability—such as Genocide or War crimes—as if they were established facts before a legal verdict has actually been reached.

In this regard, I think it's worth noting that while the U.S. Department of State holds exclusive jurisdiction over maintaining diplomatic relations between America and foreign nations, specific responsibility for relations with the Ukrainian President lies with The White House. Forum members are simply free citizens who wish to, and can, discuss things openly, regardless of the official diplomatic standing of the United States with Ukraine, Israel, Russia, the USA, or any other nation.

3. I believe there are currently many Forum members contributing to the thread who are quite well-informed about the situation in Ukraine; they share their knowledge while simultaneously clashing over political viewpoints based on that information. As for the reasons behind individual bans or warnings, I can only really discuss those with the specific Forum members who received them. I can assure you that most Forum members facing sanctions in the Ukraine thread have been provided with a thorough explanation of why the sanction was issued, along with suggestions on how to avoid similar rule violations in the future.

4. Given how "volatile" and confrontational the Ukraine topic has become, I have recently been dedicating almost all of my available time on the Forum to moderating that specific thread and nothing else—and I expect to continue this approach for as long as it seems necessary. However, I suspect that tensions are already significantly lower than they were just a week ago, and I am hoping to see this trend of de-escalation continue. This is, of course, happening in cooperation with the Forum members who participate regularly, to whom I want to express my thanks for their patience, cooperation, and support as I try to make the thread informative and pleasant to visit once again.

I would like to invite you to return to the discussion and participate, if that is something you might be interested in doing.

slybison8