Handball Euro: USA vs. France 25-27

Morgan Moore6 said:Man, seriously, if that's how they handle timeouts, we're in trouble.

Nah, this is how a timeout actually works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KsVP0GUIeQ

🙏

electricraven6 As specified by:
Man, those really were the golden years...
I have to agree that France’s offense was lackluster yesterday; if anything, they were practically handing us opportunities, especially toward the end of the game. We simply lacked the tactical awareness to capitalize on those openings. You can't expect players like Kopljar, Čupić, Vori, or Alilović to maintain their intensity for the full duration when it becomes clear they've hit a wall. The bench is right there ready to step up, but the real issue seems to be a fundamental lack of confidence in the substitutes.

When you look at our pivots—I mean, Vori and Mus—it’s honestly hard to decide which one is more underwhelming. When they try to move in unison along the crease, they have all the agility of someone navigating a wheelchair in reverse. It’s genuinely tragic because Mus manages to rack up just as many points as Vori does. You're looking at 110kg of pure, unrefined mass that seems to have just rolled down a hill the other day. It’s frankly painful to watch. If we want to actually compete, we need a pivot who functions like Sulić used to; he actually understood his role and knew how to find space. We need someone who can actually move through the lane, which is a concept clearly foreign to these two.
I have to give credit where it’s due—Alilović was absolutely stellar in the net. He’s a top-tier keeper, no question about it. But honestly, it’s frustrating when you can clearly see he's having an off night and the coaching staff just refuses to pull the trigger on a substitution. They wouldn't even consider bringing in Losert, despite how incredible he looked during that specific stretch of play. It's almost like they haven't even bothered to get to know his game yet. It feels like a bit of a backwards mentality, which is funny, considering how they usually view us.

When it comes to deciding on a substitution, I’m honestly torn between whether we need to pull Kopljar or Bičanić. It’s a bit of a toss-up, really. On one hand, you have Kopljar, who seems to find a way to commit a traveling violation in the middle of almost every offensive set. On the other hand, there’s Bičanić; if he gets the ball three times, you can practically bet your life he’s going to drive to the hoop all three times. I don't think there's a single game where he doesn't attempt to force his way through the lane like that. 🤦

Microsoft Asks:
I have to admit, I haven’t been following this NBA season very closely lately. To be perfectly honest, I’ve found myself feeling a bit disillusioned watching players get called up to the national team simply because they fit a certain mold, rather than because they actually possess the skill required to compete at this level.
What would it actually accomplish if we had Ivano Balić on the roster for even just fifteen minutes to give Domagoj Duvnjak a chance to catch his breath? I’m only throwing that out there as a hypothetical, of course.

👍

I couldn't agree more. Back when Ivano Balić was at the absolute peak of his powers, people were already asking how Domagoj Duvnjak could ever hope to step into those shoes, yet even then, they had the chance to properly structure the roster around him. Now? We’re looking at our options for a center to fill that void left by Duvnjak, and frankly, the talent pool looks completely empty. It's a real struggle.

When I saw Vori positioned in the middle during those final ten seconds, I honestly thought I was going to lose my mind.

graniteotter6 Asks:
You hit the nail on the head; there isn't a single crossover or screen being run out there, and apparently, the concept of a pivot is entirely foreign to them.
The defense is actually holding its own—we didn't let them pull away too much even when they managed to go up by three or four. The real headache, however, remains our offense. Every single time we’ve managed to walk away with a win against them, it’s been because our perimeter players stepped up and put on a clinic. Just look at the first half as a prime example; that kind of efficiency from Kopljar really made the difference.
If we had actually managed to maintain that same rhythm we used to absolutely dismantle them during the first half, I’m one hundred percent certain we would have walked away with a win. Instead, once the second half kicked in, I could see exactly where things were heading; we just completely lost our momentum, got shut down on offense, and essentially rolled over.
In that first half, it felt like we were basically forcing almost every single basket. I can't quite wrap my head around why we didn't push even harder when we had the momentum; honestly, it’s a bit of a mystery to me.
So, here’s the summary—during the first half, they tore us apart when they were on the offensive, and in the second, we couldn't get past them when they switched to defense.

That’s my point; we simply don't have a proper Pivot. 🤷

The offensive strategy is... well, I don't even know. Even high school varsity players seem to have a better grasp of offensive flow than this group being shoved into the national roster.
I’ll take Kopljar to task again, mostly because the guy drives me absolutely mad. He's 6'10", he can jump, he has a decent shot, yet he barely uses any of it once a year. His entire contribution seems to consist of doing a little low hop at the 11-meter line. If Duvnjak drives toward him, he just stands there. If Duvnjak makes a hard cut, he remains stationary. Honestly, if you just sprint right past the guy, you'll probably find yourself with the ball 100% of the time.
Crossing plays are supposed to be the backbone of the offense, but I'm not even sure he executed a single one. It’s just Bičanić and Duvnjak constantly crossing paths, which is frankly a disaster...

Then, suddenly, he remembers he exists and attempts a cross, but he doesn't even seem to realize he did it. He starts retreating back to his position, nearly getting leveled by Mandalinić, who was actually trying to take a shot...

As for the officiating, that referee—Porte, or Potre, I can't quite recall the name—he's throwing himself around like some stuntman in an action movie, bouncing off the floor with more intensity than actual accuracy. Just a total amateur. 👍

Morgan Moore6 said:Goluza is clueless; he can't even manage a basic timeout. During those breaks, he just dictates one solitary play: "Kopljar, stand there. Bič and Duvnjak, go cross. Vori, set a screen."

If that's all we're doing during timeouts, then what's even the point?

Regarding the timeouts, man, I don't think you can coach them with just hand gestures. For heaven's sake, pick up the clipboard and actually draw out your "brilliant idea" or whatever play you're thinking of.
His timeout against the Danes looked something like this:
"If we lose the ball, get right back on defense..."

🙂 🙂

Maybe he should tell Kopljar that if he doesn't realize crossing plays are the backbone of backcourt offense, then he clearly doesn't understand the need to retreat when we lose possession.☕

It actually just reminded me of that fast break during the Olympics where Abalo makes his move, and Kopljar ends up trailing him instead of staying in position. 🤣
So, yeah...

Jacob Johnson70 said:I have to be honest, I haven't been following this NBA tournament very closely lately. I guess I just lost interest after seeing so many "similar" players being called up to the national team instead of the actually "capable" ones.

And honestly, that’s a pretty big truth... so there's no point in getting worked up about it anymore. As far as I'm concerned, I could just walk away right this second.

It’s hardly a surprise to hear Goluza giving directions during a timeout, especially since he was preaching the exact same philosophy yesterday. The real issue, however, is that Goluza tends to funnel all the movement and plays toward the French side of the court, failing to realize where the gaps actually are—like finding the right timing to feed the ball to Duvnjak and maximizing that opportunity. Onni does a much more intuitive job of reading those spaces.
Similarly, I don't see an issue with Vori playing at the center position; even Wislander utilized that style early in his career. The question isn't about positioning, but rather how to integrate that into the overall plan to break down the French defense, much like how they used to exploit those openings through the wings. Goluza seems to struggle with tactical adjustments; when we hit a wall, he lacks the ability to pivot and change the approach mid-stream.

I honestly can't wrap my head around why people are being so hard on Mus. It feels a bit unfair when you consider how many players are perfectly content with their roles—players who might lack that elite, offensive firepower seen in someone like Ivano Balić or Dinart, yet they get plenty of credit just for holding the line on defense. Yesterday, he was easily our standout defender, completely shutting down that side of the French lineup, and yet he’s still getting criticized. 🤷

Jonathan Barnes5 said:It’s not really a question of whether Goluza is talking during timeouts—he was doing the exact same thing yesterday too. The real issue is that Goluza keeps trying to funnel all the screens and plays toward the French defense, and he just can't seem to grasp where the gaps are, like how to play off Domagoj Duvnjak or actually exploit those openings. Honestly, Onesta handles that stuff way better.
I mean, I don't think there's an issue with Vori playing at Pivot either. Even Wislander used to run that setup (though, granted, that's how he started his career), but you have to consider if that's actually the move if you want to break down the French defense... not to mention the way they keep leaking points on the line through the second player. That’s exactly what those French wingers were doing. Goluza just doesn't seem to get when to make a tactical adjustment; once we hit a wall, his ability to adapt is basically zero.

Comparing a genius like Wislander to Vori? Hmm, I don't know about that. They aren't exactly cut from the same cloth. I'll agree that Mus is solid defensively, but what we really need is a Pivot who can just bully his way in for 3 or 4 goals and draw a couple of 7-meter penalties when things get ugly. If we keep handing the ball to Vori while he's being smothered by defenders, we might as well be handing it straight to the opponent. It's practically a fast break for them at that point.

graniteotter6 said:......

And I honestly can't help but notice how much Accambray is being coddled again. It’s like he’s some weird hybrid of Tučkin, Dušebajev, Andersson, Richardson, and LeBron James all rolled into one. 😕
I won't even bring up Ivano Balić because, well, he didn't have the protection this guy gets.

The French (just like the Danes and Spaniards) have these "clutch" guys on the bench—people like Accambry or Fernandez—who can step in and drop a couple of goals whenever the starters are struggling. Our massive problem is that we just don't have anyone like that. Honestly, Mandalinić was driving me absolutely insane yesterday; there were several times where he just needed to drive straight at the hoop for an easy bucket or a penalty. But you need a certain kind of instinct for that, something most guys just don't possess. It made me think of Palmarsson... man, if we had him playing alongside Domagoj Duvnjak, we'd be unstoppable.

Eric Fox7 said:Actually, this is how you handle a timeout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KsVP0GUIeQ

🙏

Oh man, look at this expert right here. 🙏🙏🙏

Jonathan Barnes5 said:I honestly don't get why people are coming for Mus. Others are perfectly happy with players who lack offensive firepower—guys who aren't elite scorers like Ivano Balić or Dinart—as long as they hold their own on defense. Yesterday, he was our best defender and completely shut down that side of the French lineup, yet somehow he's still getting criticized.🤷

Who's actually going to try and convince people who only tune in during the championships when Team USA is playing? They show up just to act like experts.🙂 Better to just let it go, for the sake of your sanity.

Jonathan Barnes5 Asks:
I truly can't wrap my head around why people are being so hard on Mus. There are plenty of players out there who should be celebrating just having a solid roster of specialists—guys who might lack that elite, offensive spark you see in someone like Ivano Balić or Dinart—but manage to hold their own by putting in the work on defense. Yesterday, he was easily our best defensive presence on the floor, completely shutting down that side of the French lineup, yet somehow he’s still catching heat. It feels a bit unfair.🤷

Honestly, comparing Dinart to Mus is like comparing Mozart to a local hobbyist; I really don't see how you can even put them in the same conversation. 🤷

Eric Fox7 said:Actually, this is how you handle a timeout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KsVP0GUIeQ

🙏

No, I mean more like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR04Q8HgCRg

graniteotter6 said:Exactly, there were zero screens or picks, and honestly, they acted like the concept of a Pivot didn't even exist.
Our defense held its own—we didn't really let them pull away too much when they moved to that 3-on-4 setup—but man, the offense was just a massive disaster. Every single time we managed to beat them, it was because our perimeter guys were absolutely tearing it up, like in the first half where Kopljar was just on fire...
If we had actually kept up the tempo we used to break them down in the first half, we would've walked away with a win, no doubt about it. But once the second half rolled around, I saw exactly where this was heading, and our offense just completely flatlined and died... it was brutal.
And in that first half, they were basically forcing almost every single goal. I have no clue why we didn't push even harder right then and there while we had the momentum.
So, bottom line—they hammered us on offense in the first half, and then in the second, they just suffocated us on defense.

It was a total beatdown, plain and simple.

And I can't ignore how protected Accambray was again, it's like having Tučkin, Dušebajev, Andersson, Richardson, and LeBron James all merged into one unstoppable force. 😕
I won't even bring up Ivano Balić since he wasn't really in the mix for this one...

And don't even get me started on the lack of plays... I play amateur ball in a local league and we run smarter, faster, and more frequent picks than these pros sometimes do. When they actually try to run a play, it’s so slow and sloppy that you can't even create a decent shot against a standard 6-0 zone...

That's basically the whole foundation of breaking down a set defense—running picks, creating space for a shooter at the wing, finding an opening on the flank, or feeding the guy in the paint—but we just completely lacked that rhythm in some of these games.

The way I see it, Denmark is going to take the championship, though France could easily give them a run for their money since they're looking pretty solid this tournament, maybe just a hair behind the Danes. It doesn't matter to them that they're playing at home, whereas we struggle against teams like Austria if they happen to be the hosts...

Drew Wright Asks:
To be honest, comparing Dinart to Mus is like comparing Mozart to a local cover band; I really don't see how you could even put them in the same conversation. 🤷

To be honest, none of them are Mozart, and that holds true in this comparison as well—not him, nor Arason, Xepkin, Gorpishin, Lindgren, Pogorelov, Peterso, Kasper Nielsen, Lars Jorgensen, or Johnny Jensen. When you look at those specialists who excel at driving hard and hitting the interior, none of them possess that level of genius. It almost feels as though the players mentioned here were playing defense with such refined, gentlemanly grace, relying solely on their intellect and positioning to stop opponents. This was especially evident against that aggressive 5-1 setup used by the French, where they had Karabatic leading the charge with Dinart and B. Gille waiting right behind him.

Of course, certain players will inevitably cement their legacy as some of the greatest defenders to ever play the game, though I haven't personally tried to rank them in those kinds of comparisons. It does strike me as a bit funny, however, when people single out Mus as being the sole "enforcer" on the court while completely overlooking the long line of gritty players who did all the dirty work for their teams to secure those championship medals.

Jonathan Barnes5 said:Look, none of these guys are Mozart... not even in this comparison. Not him, not Arason, Xepkin, Gorpishin, Lindgren, Pogorelov, Peterso, Kasper Nielsen, Lars Jorgensen, or Johnny Jensen. Nobody who specializes in just smashing through and diving into the "meat" is some kind of genius. It's like people act like those mentioned players played defense in some fancy, polite way, just using their heads and positioning combined with reading the game to stop opponents...especially against that 5-1 setup France used with an Indian like Karabatic, while Dinart and B. Gille were waiting right behind him.

Sure, some guys will go down in history as elite defenders—I wasn't even trying to compare them to that. But it's honestly hilarious to me when everyone calls Mus a butcher, yet completely ignores the whole lineup of players who did all the dirty work for their teams to rack up medals.

B. Gille was playing the Indian, and Karabatic was just back there waiting with Didij.

George Ward7 said:It was like an Indian playing against B. Gille, while Karabatic waited in the wings alongside Didij.

Well, credit where credit is due... he stepped up later on. It reminds me of those old debates about how B. Gille acts as the ultimate stopper, always finding a way to shut down Ivano Balić and neutralize his rhythm entirely.

Jonathan Barnes5 said:Look, nobody in this lineup is Mozart. Not even him, and certainly not Arason, Xepkin, Gorpishin, Lindgren, Pogorelov, Peterso, Kasper Nielsen, Lars Jorgensen, or Johnny Jensen. None of those guys who specialize in hitting hard and digging into the "meat" are playing classical music here. It sounds like you're implying these players were out there defending with class and grace, using nothing but their wits and positioning to stop opponents—especially against a 5-1 setup like France uses with Karabatic leading the charge, with Dinart and B. Gille waiting right behind him.

Sure, certain guys will go down in history as some of the greatest defenders ever, but I wasn't even making that comparison... it just cracks me up when people label Musa as some kind of butcher while completely ignoring the whole roster of players who did the dirty work for their teams to rack up those medals.

Being "Mozart" just means you're the best. Why does it have to be elegant?

Jonathan Barnes5 said:Look, nobody in this group is some kind of tactical genius... and even in this specific comparison, they aren't. Not him, not Arason, Xepkin, Gorpishin, Lindgren, Pogorelov, Peterso, Kasper Nielsen, Lars Jorgensen, or Johnny Jensen. None of those guys who specialized in just smashing through and diving into the "meat" are Mozart. It’s almost like people think these players were playing defense in some classy, gentlemanly way, relying purely on positioning and reading the game to stop opponents—especially against that aggressive 5-1 setup the French used with Karabatic, while Dinart and B. Gille were waiting right behind him.

Sure, certain players will go down in history as some of the best defenders ever, but I wasn't really getting into those comparisons... I just find it hilarious when people label Musa as some kind of butcher, while completely ignoring the long list of guys who did all the dirty work for their teams whenever medals were actually on the line.

You listed all of them but totally missed the one truly "classy" hitter, Oliver Roggisch. Slavko realized he needed someone like Slišković.

Goluža claims they spotted some mistakes during the game against France. Honestly, I’d love to see him walk us through those tactical adjustments if we actually end up facing them in the finals.

Wait, did they seriously not pull Zet from the lineup? He’s stuck playing just one single position—and honestly, he’s doing a mediocre job at it.
Besides, Drago could easily step in and handle center duties.