Pet PDF: Two post submissions and two questions

First question

As soon as this thread opened, I flagged the topic as redundant, even suggesting it should be merged with the existing First aid - sick pet thread, but I’m at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. It seems the thread was kept entirely separate, and while I certainly understand why the FD moderator might feel such a deep concern for this specific issue—since I've been told it's a frequent struggle for Maltese owners—that doesn't change my feeling that the thread is unnecessary; it feels as though it was left up due to a bit of moderator bias, or perhaps it's simply poorly titled.

On a side note, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on how reported moderator posts are actually handled? If reports are routed exclusively to the moderators of that specific PDF, I would truly appreciate knowing that for my own future reference, though I suppose only an admin or smodica over at KLJ could provide me with that answer.

Second question

I feel this particular situation might be a slightly more serious matter. According to our general terms and conditions, the forum exists to prohibit violation of US law. Now, I am certainly no expert when it comes to ornithology or parrot breeding, and since I'm not a moderator, I shouldn't need to be, but when someone starts a thread titled Paperwork - how do I get paperwork for pets not bought directly from a breeder?, it just doesn't strike me as entirely legitimate. Since, again, my knowledge of birds and breeding is quite limited, I phrased my report like this:

I'm really not sure how things work with birds, but wouldn't this potentially violate the law, even if it isn't explicitly mentioned in the sub-forum rules?

I am genuinely curious as to why a thread with a title implying legal violations was turned into a post and moved over to the discussion about Eclectus parrots. To my mind, there really are only two possibilities here:

(1) there actually is "paperwork" involved with parrots and the user is trying to acquire it through illegal means, or
(2) there is no such thing as "paperwork" for parrots at all, and the user is simply trolling because they are bored.

In either scenario, I don't believe the post should have been allowed to remain; it really ought to have been sanctioned.

Thanks so much in advance for any insight you can offer. 🙂

bluerider2 said:A second point

This feels like a somewhat more serious matter to me. The general terms state that the forum exists to prohibit violation of US law. Now, I don't know anything about ornithology or breeding parrots—and frankly, I shouldn't have to, since I'm not a moderator—but when someone starts a thread titled Papers - how to get paperwork for pets not bought directly from breeders?, it doesn't exactly strike me as legitimate. Since, again, I know nothing about ornithology or parrot breeding, I simply wrote this in my report:

I am curious as to why a thread with a title suggesting a violation of the law was merely converted into a post and moved over to the thread about Eclectus parrots. There really are only two possibilities here:

(1) there actually are "papers" for parrots and the poster is trying to acquire them illegally
(2) there are no such "papers" at all, and the user is just trolling because they are bored.

In either scenario, the post shouldn't be left up—it should be sanctioned.

Thanks in advance for any insight. 🙂

I'm not sure either
Let me know if you find out; for now, it's just been moved to the Eclectus thread and will stay there indefinitely.

George Peterson49 said:I honestly haven't a clue myself.

How can you not know? That’s actually your responsibility here, not mine.

Once you figure it out, please let us know; for now, I've moved the discussion over to the tiger thread, and it'll stay there indefinitely.

There isn't much for me to report, really. I feel quite strongly that if you're going to take on the role of moderator, you should either perform those duties properly or simply step aside from the position altogether.

Yeah, apparently nobody even bothered to look at my report.

I flagged this specific post

along with all the follow-up replies because people clearly have nothing better to do than clutter up a thread about pet lizards. If you have questions like that, there’s a dedicated section on the "World Around Us" subforum for a reason. I sent a report, the moderators ignored it, and now the whole thread is just a complete mess because they're mixing wild animals with pets.

So, I'm asking the moderators to actually do their jobs and move these posts to where they belong. If they're lost, here's the link to the actual thread they should be in
...

I don't really have much more to say—either step up and handle the moderator duties properly, or just step down from them entirely.

I'm sorry—I didn't quite catch that. Could you clarify?

Why is that a mystery to you?

Find me someone who actually knows everything—the kind of person who has an answer for every single thing.

bluerider2 said:That falls under your purview—not mine.

In your previous post, you essentially admitted that you aren't even sure what exactly you're reporting—period.

I wanted to weigh in here—I'm also in the dark regarding bird registration paperwork and how the exhibition circuit actually works. I've moved this post to the appropriate thread; however, if this turns out to be a troll post, there will be sanctions. On the other hand, if it turns out the user is asking about something illegal, we expect them to explain the situation to the community—since this was framed as a question, it could be a learning opportunity for everyone, provided there aren't specific legal methods to address it. Let's not just delete things and pretend they never happened.

That’s all from my end—since I was the one who handled the whole situation with the tiger cub.

bluerider2 said:First question.
I jumped on it and filed my report the second they opened up! So, I was scrolling through my phone the other day—just one of those mindless late-night sessions, you know?—and Temu popped up on my feed again. It’s everywhere! Honestly, it's kind of wild how much they've taken over. I saw this one gadget that looked almost too good to be true, and for a second, I was like, "Wait, is this actually happening?" It reminds me of those old-school flea markets you'd find out in rural Texas, where you think you found a diamond in the rough, but then you get home and realize it's just... well, different. It's funny how we all fall for those bright colors and crazy prices. I ended up clicking on a few things anyway, because, hey, what's the harm, right? Just a little bit of harmless fun. My bank account might disagree later, though! Anyway, has anyone else been sucked into the rabbit hole lately? It's such a trip. I mean, honestly, it felt kind of unnecessary... like, why even bother? She even went ahead and suggested that we should just merge this thread with the other one. First aid—my pet isn't feeling well, what should I do?So, here’s the thing—this whole thread was just left standing there all on its own. I totally get why the FD moderator is being so extra about it, though. Apparently, people keep telling her that this is a super common issue with Maltese dogs, so she's probably worried. But honestly? That doesn't change my mind. It still feels like a completely unnecessary topic, and if you ask me, it only stayed up because of some moderator bias. Or, at the very least, the title is just a total mess.

Since you were recently a moderator and have access to the backend on KLJ, you probably saw that I already laid out my reasoning to the team back on September 3rd. But hey, it’s really no big deal to say it all again! Honestly, so many owners of light-colored dogs—regardless of what breed they have—deal with that annoying reddish staining under their pets' eyes. It's such a common thing. I truly feel like having a dedicated thread for this would be just as helpful as our discussions on anal glands or dental issues. If we’re being strictly logical about it, all of those topics could easily fit under the First Aid – Sick Pet category anyway.

So, let me wrap this up. It’s not really about anyone being biased or playing favorites—it’s more about a moderator just believing that the topic actually needs to be discussed. I honestly don't know who feels offended, slighted, or unfairly targeted by this, though I guess I don't really know how people handle reporting bad thread titles over at the PŽK either.

After all the bickering between the former and current moderators, can those of us who actually just use the forum get some straight answers? Should I bother starting a new thread, or was my question here enough? I mean, seriously... 🙄

George Peterson49 said:If I recall correctly, you were actually suggesting in your previous post that you aren't entirely certain about what exactly you are reporting. Period.

No, that isn't quite what I meant. I was simply admitting that I wasn't entirely certain about how things typically work within the Audubon Society, and then I went ahead and flagged a thread that was already explicitly titled to suggest something illegal—specifically, the practice of requesting paperwork after the fact.

With all necessary changes having been made.I have this nagging suspicion that just as certain things regarding dogs tend to be handled "under the table"—given how things typically operate in our neck of the woods—it wouldn't surprise me one bit if similar shady, off-the-books dealings exist for birds as well.

I wanted to jump in here because, to be perfectly honest, I’m also a bit in the dark when it comes to the whole process of bird documentation and those formal exhibitions. I've gone ahead and moved this post over to the appropriate thread, but please keep in mind that if this turns out to be a troll post, there will be consequences. However, if someone is genuinely asking about something that might actually violate local laws, I really hope a fellow member can step up and explain how things work; after all, since it was framed as a question, there's a chance they might actually learn something useful—and if no legal way exists, well, then they should know that too. Let's try to be helpful instead of just deleting everything and pretending the conversation never happened.

If I were still serving as a moderator—which, as fate would have it, I am no longer—I suppose I would find myself reaching out to someone who actually holds the answers, just to get my bearings. For instance, I might check in with... The Audubon SocietyYou might recall just how much effort was poured into trying to track down information regarding Atlantis and her dogs. I was just thinking about how much I've come to appreciate the work done by the HKS.Just a quick thought before I go.

That’s all I have to contribute for now, seeing as I was the one who handled that whole business involving the little tiger.

The question was directed straight to the moderation team, and honestly, it really doesn't matter who handled which specific part of the task.

Lisa Young83 said:Since you recently served as a moderator and still have access to the internal KLJ boards, you likely saw the explanation I provided to the group back on September 3rd regarding why I felt this topic was necessary, though I certainly don't mind repeating myself for the sake of clarity. So many owners of light-colored dogs—regardless of the specific breed—struggle with that frustrating reddish staining under their pets' eyes, and I am firmly convinced that having a dedicated space to discuss it would be just as helpful as our existing threads on anal glands or dental hygiene. By that same logic, any of those discussions could easily find a home within our First Aid section for sick pets.

I have to say, I feel like we’re venturing into some serious discrimination here, if you'll pardon my bluntness. After all, teeth and anal glands are perfectly legitimate biological realities. Everyone. It isn't just about the light-colored dogs, you know. Besides, if you take a look at how this discussion has spiraled, people have started throwing in all sorts of different excuses—ranging from allergies (which really ought to be moved to its own dedicated thread) to dietary concerns (which also already has its own specific topic). None of those things actually belong here. To be quite honest, I find myself feeling rather specific about this particular matter. If you happen to be dealing with any unexpected issues regarding changes in coat color, please do feel free to reach out.

To wrap things up, this isn't about any sort of moderator bias; rather, it’s simply a matter of the moderator being convinced that the discussion is necessary. I honestly can't say who might feel offended, slighted, wronged, or penalized by this decision, just as I can't speak to what gets reported over on the PŽK regarding poor thread titles.

Jumping to conclusions. I don't know anyone who feels—and I'm quoting here—“offended, slighted, wronged, or penalized,” at least certainly not me. As for what actually gets reported on the PŽK, I suppose those who moderate this subforum should probably be the ones to clarify that. In fact, if we're strictly following the name of this subforum, nothing should really be reported here at all; people should just be venting. Well, you can just consider that I was venting about some moderator errors.

Susan Perez60 said:After all this back-and-forth between former and current moderators, can us regular forum users actually get some answers? Should I start a whole new thread, or was my question sufficient right here? I mean, seriously 🙄

I’m sorry, but as far as I’m concerned, I just posted my question as an ordinary forum member, and that is exactly how I expected to be treated. I truly hope you manage to get an answer to your question as well.

Susan Perez60 said:So, after all that back-and-forth between the former and current moderators, can those of us who just hang out here on the forum actually get some answers? Like, seriously. Should I go ahead and start a whole new thread, or was my question right here enough? Just wondering. 🙄

The moderator who handles all things macaklin isn't hanging around the forum right now. No worries, though! As soon as they pop back online, they'll get back to you. I actually sent them a quick PM letting them know to check in on the PŽK the second they log in. Usually, the admin team mentions that waiting about 24 hours is pretty standard for getting a reply, so just hang tight for a bit!

Lisa Young83 said:The moderator who handles the 'macaklin' topic isn't online right now. As soon as they show up, they'll get back to you—they've already been sent a PM to check in on the PŽK once they log in. Admin has mentioned several times that 24 hours is the standard wait time for a response.

Twenty-four hours, huh? That’s rich. This post was flagged back on September 1st, 2013. I’d say that’s a little more than 24 hours, wouldn't you?!
What kind of special moderator do you need to tell the difference between someone asking about a lizard they found in their room versus someone asking which lizard to get as a pet? 🤷

bluerider2, obviously my comment wasn't directed at you, but at the two moderators who both ignored the question until I spoke up again.
Sorry for jumping into your thread, but I'm just trying to prevent us from opening a whole new thread for every tiny little thing...

Susan Perez60 said:Oh, "24 hours"? That’s funny, considering the post was reported on September 1st, 2013. I'd say that's a little bit more than 24 hours, wouldn't you?!

When asking a question over on the PŽK, the standard rule is usually to give it about 24 hours.

The report from September 1st actually got a response. The moderator who made the call will be the one to explain the reasoning behind the decision to you.

But, while we're waiting, let me just remind you of the whole debate happening in this thread before that "problematic" post showed up. It really shows how the old admin team didn't have the drive, the interest, or even the know-how to fix this thing. And now, people are going around criticizing the current moderation team, saying they don't know what they're doing or won't cooperate. It's just... well, you know.

Susan Perez60 said:Yeah, nobody even responded to my report either.

I reported this post

and all the follow-up replies because they have absolutely nothing better to do than clutter up a thread about lizards being pets. If you want to ask stuff like that, there’s a specific thread for it over in the "world around me" subforum. The mods didn't act on the report, and now this whole topic has turned into a total mess because it’s mixing wild animals with household pets.

So, I'm asking the moderators to please step in and move these posts to where they belong. If they aren't sure where, here's the link to the thread they should actually be in:

A user started the thread back on January 3rd, 3012.

The moderator asked if geckos and macaklin were the same thing, then merged it with the existing thread—which was called 'Macaklin' at the time—and renamed it to what we see today: Lizards (Allowed and Not Allowed) as Pets.

Then you commented on the title, the moderator told you to suggest a better one. You argued about the title again, basically disagreeing with part of the wording, and that's where the conversation just died out. I'm not sure if people used the little triangle icon to report or went through the PŽK, but this issue has been hanging around since January 5th, 2012. If we could wait over a year and a half, we can certainly wait a few more days. Besides, if this thread needs fixing, it'll get fixed! We're even planning to reach out to you to help us out with it. 🙂

Susan Perez60 said:I mean, why do we even need a specific moderator to tell the difference between "Hey, what kind of lizard did I just find in my bedroom?" and "Which lizard should I get as a pet?" It’s pretty obvious, right? 🤷

Look, if a moderator doesn't know much about lizards, it shouldn't matter. Any helpful member of the community who knows their stuff and wants to help can jump in to clear up confusion about reptiles or anything else that comes up. That’s basically how this whole board works. The moderators aren't here to act as subject-matter experts for every single topic.

Susan Perez60 said:bluerider2, obviously I wasn't aiming that at you! I was talking about those two moderators who both ignored my question before I finally lost my cool.
Sorry for crashing your thread, but hey, we can't exactly start a brand new discussion for every tiny little thing...

Nobody was ignoring you today, honestly. You posted at 3:08 PM and then started complaining about not getting an answer by 3:49 PM—that's only a 41-minute wait. I jumped in with my reply at 4:04 PM, and really, any admin could have stepped in to say that. I think it's only fair to give the moderator who actually made the call a chance to respond.

I'm not sure if you've sent any of us moderators a private message with complaints since September 1st, but I haven't seen anything. Whenever someone reaches out to me, I try to get back to them pretty quickly. There was that one time where things took a bit longer because we had to coordinate among the staff, and one of the guys was totally offline and couldn't check in.

bluerider2 said:As soon as this was posted, I flagged the thread as redundant. I even suggested merging it with the first aid - sick pet thread. Instead, they left it standing alone. I get why the FD moderator might be hyper-focused on this specific issue—apparently, it’s a common headache for Maltese owners—but that doesn't change the fact that the thread is unnecessary. It feels like it was kept up solely due to moderator bias, or at the very least, it's been poorly titled.

There is absolutely no reason to lump this in with medical issues. We are talking about the most basic maintenance struggle involving white coats.
In my experience, just about every dog enthusiast forum in the country has at least one dedicated thread for maintaining white breeds. Keeping their coat pristine is significantly more high-maintenance than dealing with darker colors; it requires specialized grooming, specific dietary adjustments, and a dozen different products that owners of non-white dogs wouldn't even know exist. These threads usually turn into battlegrounds where enthusiasts argue over "angel drops" versus mineral water, before eventually reaching a consensus to collectively complain about how much carotene in certain kibbles affects coat color.
To be honest, I find it surprising this hasn't been an established topic for years. If they just tweaked the title slightly, it would be perfectly fine.

I have to say, I’ve never heard anyone owning a differently colored breed claim they were being discriminated against. 🤣
The internet is vast; we aren't going to run out of bandwidth if this remains its own separate discussion. 😳

And yes, bluerider2, you’ve moderated before, so you know better than anyone that mods aren't obligated to act on every single report or adopt every suggestion from the community. Every moderator, and every new group of mods that takes over, brings their own unique philosophy on how to organize the site. And frankly, that’s exactly how it should be.

Alright, great, I'm glad someone is finally tackling this issue. I’m more than happy to help clear things up, but I still stand by my point: the title of this thread is completely wrong. Look, there are protected and unprotected reptiles—snakes, toads, turtles, birds, fish, whatever—but just because an animal is protected doesn't mean you can't own one. It just means they're on the CITES list, and if you want to keep them, you have to register with the relevant federal agency...

The basic rule for all moderators should be pretty simple: if someone asks about a lizard they found in their living room or out in a field, that belongs in the "Nature Around Us" section. But if someone is talking about lizards from a breeder—basically pets raised specifically to be kept at home—then that clearly goes under "Pets."

I wasn't sending private messages about any specific topic; I just filed a report hoping someone would come in and fix the thread. Thanks for getting back to me and actually showing interest in sorting out these kinds of confusion...

I suppose I’m the one who "messed up" the thread about the macaklin. When I first opened the topic, my initial instinct was to search the archives and check the index to see if there was already something similar. On the index itself, I saw a thread titled "Macaklin," though it seemed to me that the title had been changed since the start, which was originally centered around that specific lizard—though, to be honest, I don't know much more about them than the bare essentials, or really about the reptile world in general. My reasoning for moving things around was simply that an author should be able to find all the necessary info just by skimming the first page. However, the title ended up being changed to something that, in my opinion, felt quite awkward, and the discussion drifted off into being rather vague. To make matters worse, whoever changed the title didn't update the index, so it still showed up as "Macaklin." FD reached out to me and suggested it might be better to move the discussion over to SON, and while I initially thought that made sense, we ultimately decided against it. We figured that starting a completely NEW thread dedicated to prohibited species, especially regarding reptiles, would probably be a great idea. We even talked about finding a true enthusiast or an expert in reptiles to help flesh out the sparse reptile section within the pet category. Susan Perez60, if you feel like writing anything about this or sharing whatever knowledge you might have on the subject, we would certainly appreciate it. LP

Lisa Young83 said:Actually, while we're waiting, I just wanted to circle back to the discussion happening on this thread before that "problematic" post popped up. It really highlights how the previous administration just didn't have the drive, the interest, or even the know-how to actually fix things. And now, people are basically throwing shade at the current moderator team, claiming they don't know what they're doing or that they aren't willing to play nice.

Just to clarify. When I said "previous administration," I was specifically talking about the old moderator crew.

My bad to the admin team for using the wrong term there!

Susan Perez60 said:Alright, great—I’m glad someone is finally tackling this. I am more than happy to help clear up any confusion, though I still maintain that the thread title is completely misplaced. There are protected and unprotected species out there—snakes, frogs, turtles, birds, fish, you name it—but just because an animal is protected doesn't mean ownership is illegal; it simply means they are on the CITES list, requiring owners to register with the relevant federal agency.

The basic rule for all moderators should be simple: if someone asks about a lizard they found in their living room or a field, that belongs in the "World Around Me" sub-forum. However, if someone is talking about captive-bred lizards—essentially pets—that belongs in the "Pets" section.

I wasn't sending private messages regarding a specific topic; I was just reporting it, hoping someone would tidy things up. Thanks for responding and for showing interest in resolving these kinds of ambiguities.

You're right—it would be more appropriate under SON.
But since it's already set up this way, I don't see the harm in the folks over at KLJ learning a bit about our local lizards or snakes—add whatever else fits. Besides, I rarely see our usernames popping up over on SON anyway.

It is also surprising—and I don't just mean our forum members, but pet owners in general—how little people know about the other wildlife surrounding them.
To stay on the subject of lizards and snakes, just try asking, "How many venomous creatures live in America?"

That is why I think it's fine for the post to stay here; we can just point our members toward the correct thread over on SON.

Check out the snake thread, then you can find me over on SON 😉

Look, all that is true, but venomous snakes aren't really what people should be talking about when it comes to pets here in America. We should be discussing my snakes that I actually keep as pets. Since we have both SON and KLJ, I don't see any reason why those two things need to be lumped together 🤷
Yeah, people seriously don't know much; they're just full of misinformation. I work on educating kids and teens about snakes—reptiles in general—and it’s honestly terrible how much ignorance and old wives' tales I run into. That's exactly why I think we need to separate "scary" rattlesnakes from domestic pythons. It’s mostly because the way you approach a snake as a pet is completely different from how you handle one you stumble upon in the wild.

And I constantly have to explain to people that you shouldn't be taking animals out of the wild, whether it's a snake, a turtle, a bird, or a hedgehog—regardless of whether you're talking on SON or KLJ.

Susan Perez60 said:Check the snake thread—you'll find me over on SON too.😉

That’s all true, but venomous snakes in America really shouldn't be a topic for pet owners. We can talk about my pythons kept at home as pets, certainly—but since we have both SON and KLJ, I don't see any reason to conflate the two.🤷
It's true—people often lack basic knowledge and are flooded with misinformation. I work on educating kids and teens about snakes—reptiles in general—and it is honestly disheartening how much ignorance and hearsay I encounter. That is exactly why I believe we need to distinguish "scary" rattlesnakes from domestic pythons. It comes down to the fundamental difference in how one approaches a snake as a pet versus encountering one in the wild.

And I constantly have to remind people that you simply cannot take animals from the wild—whether it's a snake, a turtle, a bird, or even a hedgehog—be it on SON or KLJ.

🙂
Look, I know you're active on SON, and reptiles were just an example. If I recall correctly, I've posted a few times on that topic myself. I'm certainly not against providing some education through a few posts, even if the subject belongs in a different subforum. As long as it doesn't devolve into general off-topic chatter. So, just explain it briefly and then point them toward the correct thread.🙂

Look, I’m always all for some education. So, here’s my suggestion: let's set up two separate threads on KLJ. One should be strictly for pets—specifically those lizards that started this whole mess—and the other can be more general, where people can just ask broader questions.

The first thread would be about reptiles, but honestly, most of the stuff written there ends up being about the lizard, the pet
—the bearded dragon. We need to get things organized, because everything else is running fine, it's just that the lizards are total troublemakers...

I'm honestly just glad we're on the same page about renaming, cleaning up, and splitting the lizard thread to get things started right. I think it’s best if we move the chat regarding the final plan over to the existing thread instead. No real sense in dragging this onto the PŽK since there's no "A" for agreements in the title anyway, so let's just grab the folder for off