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ZUD privileges and a quick question

Started by Adam Parker2 · · 👁 4 views · 17 replies

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Participants Adam Parker2Henry Kim3Nicholas KingMichelle Alvarez8Jose White18brisklynx62Sean Cruzvelvettrucker52
Adam Parker2 Adam Parker2 MemberOP
14 messages
joined Jan 2013
#1 ·
It’s an undeniable fact—long-time forum veterans get away with things that regular users aren't even allowed to attempt. A perfect example is those semi-private chats where anyone unfamiliar with the unwritten rules gets labeled as an "outsider."

For instance—take our ever-present Nicholas King—he apparently takes issue with the sarcasm I liberally sprinkle throughout discussions regarding Jewish topics. Yet, I haven't noticed any of his own posts, which are practically drenched in sarcasm and cynicism, being deleted.

To the gentleman who claims what I wrote was nonsense—here is my response, which was, of course, deleted—so I'll just improvise:
"Of course, having an honest conversation is senseless... It's much more meaningful to find out from your daughter that your husband has a young mistress..."

Addressing the moderator on duty here:
Emily Martin says:
"Was my post deleted where I quoted Nicholas King and denied that the conversation was senseless, or is it just not showing up for me?"
The answer:
Deleted. There’s really no point in engaging once things cross certain lines of bickering.

A recent addition to this argument is the warning I received on the "Affairs and Infidelity" thread.
Because I dared to address another user directly—sharing a bit about myself and how I communicate—I told a certain "privileged" member that I wasn't interested in her opinion on the matter and had no intention of typing about her or her Car. (That's a nod to a famous commercial, by the way!)

And sure enough—my reply to her post, which remains perfectly intact, was wiped away. Naturally, the warning followed. I didn't bother appealing, though—I don't think appeals are any more useful than pressing a pedestrian button at a red light.

Question:
How many years of seniority or how many posts does one need to accumulate before they're allowed to use the exact same sarcasm or irony as the protected veterans?
Or perhaps—how can one respond in the same tone without being branded a bicker, a troll, or someone who isn't being serious?
Henry Kim3 Henry Kim3 Member
30 messages
joined Sep 2012
#2 ·
Emily Martin said:It’s an objective fact that long-time forum veterans get away with things that everyone else is strictly forbidden from doing. A perfect example is those semi-private chats where users who aren't fully clued into the internal politics are labeled as "outsiders."

Why are you even surprised? Moderation over there is a total disaster...!

Emily Martin said:For instance, Nicholas King doesn't seem to appreciate the sarcasm I liberally sprinkle throughout the Jewish-interest threads. Yet, I haven't noticed any of his own posts being deleted, despite them being absolutely loaded with sarcasm and cynicism.

Well, obviously... If you just take a quick look at the religious topics on this subforum, what you're saying becomes pretty clear... Injustice is everywhere, I guess...

Emily Martin said:Regarding the person claiming what I wrote was nonsense—here is my response, which was, of course, deleted, so I'll just improvise:
"Sure, it's totally nonsensical to have an honest conversation... It's much more meaningful to find out from your daughter that your husband has a young mistress..."

That just points to catastrophic moderation... If you couldn't tell, I'm not even part of that group anymore, though I used to be... Maybe try bringing up a little bit of morality over there, and you'll see exactly how the moderators welcome you....

Emily Martin said:Indeed, my reply to her post was promptly deleted, even though her post remains perfectly intact. A warning was implied. I didn't bother appealing because I don't think appeals are about as useful as pressing the pedestrian button at a red light.

I suppose I agree... But don't stress yourself out... Just walk away from that PDF and leave it at that; it isn't worth the headache, since there isn't anything you can actually do anyway...!

Emily Martin said:Question:
How many years of seniority or how many posts does one need on this forum to be allowed to use the exact same level of sarcasm or irony as the protected members?
Or perhaps, how can one respond with that same tone without being labeled a bickerer, a troll, or someone who isn't being serious?

Well, look, I’ve got quite a bit of tenure here already, yet the second I open my mouth, I'm immediately branded a troll... 🙂 I suppose it doesn't really matter; I guess the real issue is just how you say things and whether or not the moderators happen to like you. Then again, if you try supporting anything that's clearly wrong, you'll see how quickly things progress, unfortunately...
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#3 ·
Emily Martin said:For instance, It seems like you're trying to convey something about being omnipresent—or perhaps just everywhere at once. I suppose, if we’re being honest, that sense of being constantly watched or surrounded by certain forces is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore in this country. It's almost... overwhelming, isn't it? I guess one could argue that everything feels interconnected now—too much so, maybe—but I'll leave that thought there for a moment. Nicholas King...

To start things off, let’s just go ahead and tear this guy apart—it'll probably make it much easier for us to prove our point later on, regardless of what that actual point might be.

What exactly is the point of that? I mean, seriously—why do you feel the need to throw in a little side comment about me being "omnipresent" while you’re supposedly laying out your argument? You can try to posture all you want—claiming it wasn't intentional, or that you didn't mean anything by it—but let's be real here. If it wasn't an accident, then what was the actual goal of emphasizing my supposed "omnipresence"? I won't even bother getting into a whole separate debate about that specific claim right now, since it’s completely off-topic, but I fail to see how it has any relevance whatsoever to the point you're trying to make in this thread.
It seems someone isn't exactly thrilled with the amount of sarcasm I tend to sprinkle liberally whenever the topic of Jewish affairs comes up.

I think I was a bit imprecise in my previous comments regarding this discussion—to be clear, I don't have an issue with sarcasm itself; that’s just part of a healthy debate. What actually bothers me is that specific, irritating cocktail of sarcasm mixed with passive-aggression that a few users here have repeatedly injected into the conversation.

Why does this bother me? Honestly, the reason is pretty straightforward: the subject matter being tackled here—the impact of parental divorce on children—is serious, heavy, and incredibly sensitive... which also makes it a fascinating topic for a deep dive. I feel like these so-called "Ha!" posts just kill any chance of having a meaningful conversation—and yeah, that’s exactly what gets under my skin.

We are talking about the relationship between a fifty-year-old man and a thirty-year-old woman here. If the discussion starts devolving into snarky comments—you know, those types of posts where someone sneers, "Oh, wouldn't it be just perfect if his daughter found a guy her own age right now"—then we have a problem. Or, if I suggest that it might be overstating things to claim that the specific way a man breaks the news to his wife will fundamentally change how she processes being abandoned—meaning, whether it makes the blow any easier or more bearable to swallow—and someone snaps back with, "Oh, sure, it’s definitely better for her to find out from her own daughter that her husband is cheating," then there is simply no room left for a serious conversation. I’ll admit it—and I stand by what I wrote earlier—I don't consider people who post those "Well, if you don't like Tito, then you must love Hitler!" style comments to be credible conversationalists.

It isn’t just happening within this specific thread—or even within this particular PDF—but it seems like people, for some bizarre and frankly inexplicable reason, genuinely believe they can actually achieve something by posting like this. What exactly is the goal here? I mean, besides the sheer absurdity of trying to carry an argument using such ridiculous methods... I honestly don't know.

I tend to write in all sorts of different ways—but, if you ever happen to stumble upon an instance of my sarcasm or passive-aggressiveness, or if I ever react to someone's opinion by using some senseless caricature or twisting their words... please, feel free to remind me of this thread and this specific post.
Michelle Alvarez8 Michelle Alvarez8 Regular
299 messages
joined Nov 2015
#4 ·
Emily Martin said:It’s just a fact—longtime forum veterans get away with things that everyone else is banned from doing.

I'll just say this isn't true and leave it at that—seriously, it's just not true.

Thanks anyway, catch ya later! 👋
Jose White18 Jose White18 Member
45 messages
joined Dec 2010
#5 ·
Just to make sure I’ve got this straight: you started a whole new thread because you're unhappy with a card you received two months ago (even though there's already a specific thread for card complaints), and because two of your posts were deleted? You wrote 13 posts in just two days on that original thread, right?
brisklynx62 brisklynx62 Member
17 messages
joined Jul 2012
#6 ·
Brian Edwards78 said:I’m just going to say this isn't true, and I'll leave it at that. Seriously—it's just not true.

Thanks, anyway. Bye. 👋

So, I'm just dropping in here... I stumbled onto this thread by accident and saw this.
Personally, I think it *is* true. I won't say it isn't. 😬

Just look at how the mods handle things. For example, the first person that comes to mind is Stinger. He's constantly insulting people, calling them idiots or fools, regardless of whether they're actually off-topic or not. He thinks he can just act however he wants. But how many people have actually reported him or called him out on his ego? He hasn't been penalized or even given a warning.

And honestly, there are plenty of other users just like him.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#7 ·
brisklynx62 said:Which Stinger? It’s just... I don't know—it feels like we've been through this an uncountable number of times already. I mean, really—how many times can one group go over the same ground without reaching any actual conclusion? It’s becoming quite exhausting to witness. It seems like some people just can't help themselves—constantly lashing out at others, hurling insults, calling people idiots, fools, or whatever other derogatory labels they can scrape together. It’s honestly exhausting to witness this kind of behavior.

It’s absolute madness—an entire kingdom just handed over to someone who was reported and never even sanctioned. I mean, seriously? It’s just completely absurd.
And honestly, you see plenty of people like that popping up on forums all the time. I suppose I should probably address this—though I’m not entirely sure where to begin with such a vague notion. It feels like we're just staring at a massive obstacle, an uphill climb that nobody seems particularly interested in tackling head-on. Maybe it’s just me, but there’s a certain weight to these situations—this sense of facing a steep incline without any real gear to help us through it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that things aren't exactly level right now, and frankly, the climb looks exhausting...

It’s absolute madness—honestly, I don't even know where to start with this level of incompetence. We are looking at a complete breakdown of the system regarding those who have been officially cited yet remain entirely unpunished. It's a total farce. I mean, if you have someone flagged, there should be consequences, right? But instead, we just sit here while they operate with zero oversight. It feels like a complete mockery of any semblance of order we're supposed to uphold. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I guess when the rules are ignored like this, the whole concept of accountability just evaporates. It's infuriating, frankly.
Adam Parker2 Adam Parker2 MemberOP
14 messages
joined Jan 2013
#8 ·
@Henry Kim3
Perhaps the ZUD policy is simply to protect their "local" regulars—I once voiced a complaint regarding velvettrucker52 and received some truly bizarre responses...

Actually, I just read recently that velvettrucker52 holds a lifetime position here—though, interestingly, I haven't seen a single compliment directed her way, unlike the endless complaints questioning her purpose... But hey, they aren't banned, so if that's what someone prefers...

------------------------

Nicholas King said:To start things off, let’s just tear this person down—it'll make proving our point much easier later, regardless of what that point actually is.

If you feel "attacked" (?!) by a simple observation regarding your undeniable omnipresence on this forum... well, my advice is: don't be.

Nicholas King said:...for some strange reason, people believe these kinds of posts actually contribute anything to a debate. I have no idea what that could be—aside from avoiding actual discussion through such tactics.

Well, maybe the debate will "improve"—say, via therapeutic posts; like in the thread about the 23-year-old dealing with her father leaving:

Here is another example of "improving" a discussion through therapy to achieve a goal:

It goes without saying that Chloe Wilson46 left the discussion shortly after with a farewell post—which was, of course, deleted.

--------------

@Brian Edwards78, brisklynx62

You haven't been labeled as ZUD regulars lately, but it's lovely to see you checking in. 🙂
Adam Parker2 Adam Parker2 MemberOP
14 messages
joined Jan 2013
#9 ·
Jose White18 said:Just to be clear—you started a whole new thread because you're complaining about a card you got two months ago (even though there's a specific thread for card complaints) and because of two deleted posts (despite the fact that you wrote 13 of them in just two days on that thread)?

Not quite.
That’s a pretty staggering misinterpretation of what was said—especially coming from a moderator.
This isn't a complaint, which is stated quite clearly.

It's actually a commentary on those ZUD followers, given the protection they have and the question I posed.

If I ever decide to file an actual complaint, the title will explicitly say "Complaint" followed by the username of the person I'm targeting.
Figuring out the point I'm making shouldn't be that much work.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#10 ·
The assertion that I am somehow "omnipresent" on this forum is just plain ridiculous—something that can be easily debunked by looking at the sheer volume of PDF files where I post constantly, versus those where I rarely chime in, and the many where I don't say a word at all.

Neither of those two links has anything to do with the "Ha!" posts I was referring to. And yes, I stand by what I said—I truly believe that a 28-year-old woman who lives at home and clearly lacks fatherly guidance needs some serious therapy if she ever hopes to actually become independent; I’m being deadly serious about that, and I am more than willing to have a very grave discussion regarding it. Also, yes, I think someone who claims they are just "following their gut" or "chasing after instinct" (to use her own colorful terminology, if memory serves) while explaining the roots of their infatuations in a completely different way, honestly thinks they are superior to everyone else.

But, let me be clear: neither of those examples constitutes sarcastic, petty nonsense like saying "it would be best if the daughter finds someone her father's age so they can all hang out together as a group of four." You're going to have to try a little harder than that if you want to catch me off guard.
Adam Parker2 Adam Parker2 MemberOP
14 messages
joined Jan 2013
#11 ·
Nicholas King said:"It would be best if our daughter finds someone her own age—that way, the four of us can actually enjoy some quality time together."

I never wrote that above.

-------------

Your constant presence really highlights my point—it’s not a crime to state the obvious to this entire forum crowd, right?
Am I going to get penalized just for asking, "Is the Car empty, or is Nicholas King everywhere?"

I'm sorry you aren't happy with the answer, but I don't see the point in trying any harder.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#12 ·
Emily Martin said:I never wrote any of that above.

Look, I didn't even say you were the one who wrote it—I was simply providing examples of posts (that second example happens to be yours) which effectively shut down any possibility of further discussion.
Is it really forbidden to point out what is blatantly obvious to the entire forum crowd?

It isn't a question of whether it's "allowed" or not—you’re free to state whatever random thought crosses your mind. I can only reiterate that it is incredibly foolish to suggest that someone who contributes to maybe 5 or 6 out of all the various forum PDFs (roughly speaking, over 170 of them) is somehow "omnipresent" here—whether you think that was you saying it or anyone else. If you truly believe that my presence is "obvious" compared to the athletes, socialites, nature enthusiasts, and other forum users who have posted in over 150 different PDFs, then fine—keep insisting on that logic. Honestly, I can't stop you from making yourself look ridiculous on this board if that's what you choose to do...
Adam Parker2 Adam Parker2 MemberOP
14 messages
joined Jan 2013
#13 ·
Nicholas King said:—well, I certainly can't stop you from making a fool of yourself on this forum...

Exactly—so there's really no point in even trying.

By the way, just linking posts is much more practical than all this guesswork and playing games about who posted what first.
Sean Cruz Sean Cruz Regular
265 messages
joined Apr 2008
#14 ·
Emily Martin said:I never wrote that above.

It wasn't you; I just wrote something similar. If we're being pedantic about precision, it should have been noted as a paraphrase or a direct quote.

Emily Martin said:Here is another prime example of "therapeutic" discussion management where something actually gets achieved:
http://www.forum.com/showpost.php?p=4...&postcount=598
I won't even mention that Chloe Wilson46 promptly exited the debate shortly after with a farewell post—which was, of course, deleted.

Drawing on my years of experience navigating online forums, I anticipated how this would play out and chose to step away from the argument. Clearly, the moderator views the aforementioned post as vital to the conversation, given that it remains unedited.

To be fair to this thread, I should mention that in one of the ZUD chat rooms, they weren't just discussing the topic itself, but were also targeting specific female users in a rather negative light. I haven't verified whether commenting on users in that manner violates ZUD rules, but if necessary, I can provide links to the thread and the posts.
velvettrucker52 velvettrucker52 Member
31 messages
joined Dec 2011
#15 ·
Chloe Wilson46 said:I wasn't sure if commenting on specific threads or individual users was allowed under the ZUD guidelines, but I can provide links to the threads and posts if necessary.

Please go ahead and link them; I’d like to see exactly what we're dealing with.
I handle most of the moderation for the chats, though I've been offline quite a bit over the last few days.
On ZUD, particularly within the chats, this kind of behavior is strictly against the rules, and the regular participants are well aware of that.
Sean Cruz Sean Cruz Regular
265 messages
joined Apr 2008
#16 ·
velvettrucker52 said:Please send those links over so I can see what's actually going on.
I handle most of the chat moderation myself, though I haven't been online much over the last few days.
On this site, especially in the chats, comments like that aren't allowed, and the regular users know that very well.

I never report posts, so you wouldn't have had the chance to react anyway. I wouldn't "report" them now either, but since we are dealing with such a serious subject—specifically how parental divorce impacts children—I find these types of comments completely inappropriate.

Here are some of those posts where it’s crystal clear they are targeting the topic and attacking users who don't share their views:
Michelle Alvarez8 Michelle Alvarez8 Regular
299 messages
joined Nov 2015
#17 ·
brisklynx62 said:I’m just a random passerby here... stumbled onto this thread by accident and saw this.
I’d say it’s absolutely true—honestly, why would anyone deny it? 😬

Take the moderators, for example. The first name that pops into my head is Stinger—he’s lost count of how many times he’s insulted people, calling them idiots, morons, you name it. It doesn't even matter if someone actually belongs in the discussion or not; he just takes liberties. I mean, seriously, Stinger? With that kind of language and attitude... how many people with big egos have tried to call him out or report him? And yet, nothing. No penalties, no warnings, nothing at all.

And honestly? There are tons of users like that on this forum.

You're twisting definitions. Being a moderator isn't the same thing as being a longtime member. Some old-timers happen to be mods, but that’s where the connection ends.
Adam Parker2 Adam Parker2 MemberOP
14 messages
joined Jan 2013
#18 ·
Chloe Wilson46 said:To help clarify things here—I just wanted to mention that in one of the chat rooms over at the IRS, people weren't just debating the topic itself, but were actually targeting certain female members for their views, in a pretty negative way.

Honestly, there's no need to get bogged down in the context of those chats because:

"Since it's a chat room, people tend to be more relaxed and just joking around," says Tupelo, while Nica adds that "the chat has a completely different dynamic and purpose than the rest of the forums."

So, it's basically just some casual, semi-private banter for the enthusiasts—it carries no real weight and shouldn't be taken seriously.

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