Groups, sports, gyms, individual sports, and coaches

Charles Morales10 said:The way you've laid it out makes it sound like an incredibly grueling session followed by one decent meal...😁

Exactly 😁

I’ve been seeing posts everywhere saying you live in the gym doing nothing but squats and deadlifts. Look, would you be a total legend and break it down for us mere mortals? We don't train professionally or anything, we just want to look decent. Could you explain the whole squat situation—like, how many different types are there even? I’m talking everything from where the bar sits on your back to which muscles are actually firing. And most importantly, what should we watch out for so we don't absolutely wreck our knees?
(That knee thing is a huge deal for me, especially when it comes to going deep. My girlfriend is asking because she heard deep squats are the ultimate glute builder, but now she’s terrified her knees are gonna snap because she read some forum post claiming deep squats are strictly for hardcore powerlifters.)
Neither of us has ever really done sports or anything, so we have zero clue who to turn to for advice.
We honestly have no idea what kind of shape we're in, so if you happen to know a way to figure out our baseline fitness, let me know!

Thanks man, looking forward to hearing what you gotta say!

David Long27 said:I’ve been reading that you do a ton of squats and deadlifts. Would you mind helping us out? We aren't serious athletes or anything, so could you explain the different types of squats? We're curious about everything—where the bar should sit, which muscles get worked, and especially how to protect our knees.
(The knee thing is a big concern for my girlfriend when doing deep squats; she heard they're great for building glutes, but she's worried her knees will take a hit because she read online that deep squats are only meant for heavy lifters.)
Since neither of us has ever really done sports, we don't have anyone to ask for advice.
We aren't even sure what kind of fitness level we're at, so if you happen to know a good way to figure that out, let us know!

Thanks, looking forward to hearing from you!

Man, you're being a bit much. Give it a rest. 🙂

Ethan Garcia8 said:Man, give it a rest. You're being tedious. Stop nagging. 🙂

Look, thanks for the reply, but that was really the whole point of my posts—just laying it out because someone actually asked.

Now, let me ask you nicely one more time: just drop the stuff about Ante Kostelić. Seriously. It’s not even personal, I don't have a problem with you, it's just that you're acting like a know-it-all in a space where you clearly don't belong.

Maybe try talking about your own field if you actually have something useful to contribute. And look, if you ever have actual questions about training, feel free to reach out. We aren't all the arrogant types you seem to think we are; if you'd actually met people in the industry, maybe you wouldn't be so convinced.

Cheers to the lurkers watching this play out! And hey, that guy from Oakland should hit me up for a beer sometime—he's definitely earned it.

Charles Morales10 said:For the most part, I’m with you.
Heavy isolation movements are arguably the fastest way to wreck your joints.
However, what works for me—and what I actually do—is using isolation exercises at the end of a session. I use light weights and high rep ranges just to get a massive pump, which helps drive blood flow into the muscle and aids recovery.

That’s exactly my point! There is zero reason to avoid machine isolations entirely. Instead, save them for the end of your workout when the muscles are already primed and you don't have the raw strength left to move heavy loads safely. For example, I always finish off my quads with leg extensions after I've already absolutely destroyed them with squats and Bulgarian split squats. I never jump straight into heavy isolation; I earn it. You can apply this logic to any muscle group to effectively eliminate injury risk.

Charles Perez81 said:Some people hit the gym to pack on mass, others to drop weight, and some just want definition. You’re going to see much faster results in a weight room than you will with bodyweight exercises. I doubt even 0.1% of people go to the gym just so they can be better at chopping wood. I also find your conclusion—that people with "sedentary" lifestyles don't need physical activity—to be quite interesting.

It’s clear some people here can’t distinguish between strength and power training versus muscular endurance training, which is actually what someone would need if their goal was purely chopping wood. If you want to understand why a 260-pound powerhouse can't chop wood as efficiently as a laborer who does it daily, you need to actually study human anatomy, training methodologies, and biomechanics....................

David Long27 said:I appreciate the response; that was exactly the point I was trying to make when I laid out my goals earlier.

Now, I’m going to ask you one more time: leave Ante Kostelić out of this. To be clear, I have nothing against you personally, but stop acting like an expert in areas where you clearly aren't qualified.

Stick to discussing your own field if you actually have something useful to contribute. If you have legitimate questions regarding training, feel free to reach out. We professionals aren't the caricatures you're trying to paint us as—if you had ever actually met someone in the industry, you might realize that.

Regards to the lurkers watching this play out! And tell that guy from Oakland to reach out when he's ready for a beer; he's definitely earned it.!!!!

👍

slydriver52 said:👍

Have you even been following this thread from the jump? Like, a few days ago when we were debating where to hit the gym in Chicago?

David Long27 said:If you have any questions at all regarding the training, just reach out.

So, since you're an experienced coach, I figured I’d pick your brain—what’s your take on kettlebells?

The American company Dragon Door pushes their kettlebell system as being top-tier, claiming in their literature that this kind of training boosts athletic performance—maybe even better than other methods entirely.
For instance, the American trainer Tsatsouline makes a pretty bold claim in one of his books about a study where one group of athletes did pull-ups and sprints, while another group focused solely on kettlebells. When they tested them, the group doing just kettlebells actually outperformed the other group in both sprinting and pull-ups.
If that’s actually true, it’s honestly fascinating.
Where do kettlebells fit into an athlete's prep, and are they really a superior tool? Do pro athletes actually use them regularly?

nimblemarlin6 said:Look, since you're an experienced David Long27, I want to get your take on kettlebells (Russian bells).

The American company Dragon Door promotes their kettlebell system as superior, claiming in their publications that this type of training significantly boosts athletic performance—even outperforming other training methods.
For instance, the American trainer Tsatsouline seriously argues in one of his books that a study exists where one group of athletes trained with pull-ups and sprints, while another group focused solely on kettlebells. During testing, the group that trained only with kettlebells actually showed better results in both sprinting and pull-ups than the group performing those specific exercises.
If that’s true, it’s fascinating.
What role do kettlebells play in athlete preparation, and is it truly a superior tool? Do professional athletes actually use them frequently?

I won't be aggressive, but I'll be blunt: it's MARKETING!

There is no such thing as a "superior tool" in sports. It doesn't exist. Explain to me how someone becomes faster without running? Or how they get better at pull-ups without doing pull-ups? It’s pretty simple. There is no "movement memory" or "transfer" in sports like Bopa claimed.

As for that "study"—which I haven't even read because it's irrelevant unless it even exists—one has to look closely at how it was conducted.
For example, what if the control group using the bells was already highly trained in sprinting and pull-ups compared to the other group, which might have been out of shape or untrained? You have to analyze studies thoroughly before commenting, much like the Tabata HIIT craze, which has been one of the biggest marketing tricks in sports over the last 15 years.

Bells have a purpose, and yes, athletes use them, but for which specific sports? To claim otherwise and lure millions of people into gyms is pure marketing, just like the Tabata protocol.

nimblemarlin6 said:Look, I wanted to pick your brain since you're an experienced David Long27. What’s your take on kettlebells?

The American company Dragon Door promotes its kettlebell training system as being superior, claiming in their literature that this type of training boosts athletic performance even more effectively than other methods.
For instance, the American trainer Tsatsouline argues in one of his books that there was a study where one group of athletes trained with pull-ups and sprints, while another group focused solely on kettlebells. During testing, the group that did only kettlebells actually outperformed the other group in both sprinting and pull-ups.
If that holds up, it's pretty fascinating.
Where do kettlebells fit into an athlete's preparation, and are they truly a superior tool? Do pro athletes actually use them regularly?

Total provocateur... 🤣

Charles Chavez5 said:Bell training has its uses, and sure, athletes use them, but which sports actually rely on it? Claiming otherwise just to lure millions of people into gyms is pure marketing, much like the whole Tabata HIIT craze.

The truth is, people are making serious money off the Tabata protocol and HIIT. You see cities full of folks following every fitness trend blindly. It’s like watching brilliant schemes being rolled out right in front of us. 😁

Charles Chavez5 said:There’s no such thing as a magic bullet in sports; it just doesn't exist. Think about it—how can you get faster if you aren't actually running? Or how can you get better at pull-ups if you aren't doing pull-ups? It’s pretty straightforward...

How can you improve your pull-up numbers by only doing deadlifts? 😁
How can you get better at running by just riding a bike?
How can you jump higher by solely focusing on deadlifts?
It’s honestly mind-blowing—how could someone expect to run better just by swinging kettlebells?
It’s wild to think about why people bother jumping rope, flipping tires, or doing push-ups when they seem to believe you can just master boxing through theory alone. 😁

Wait, is it possible—just maybe—that all these different movements are actually connected? 😁

You also have to look at this "study," which I haven't even read because its relevance is questionable at best, and even if it exists, you have to look at the methodology.
For instance, what if the control group that was using bells was already highly trained in pull-ups and sprinting compared to the other control group, which might have been out of shape and untrained? You really have to analyze studies thoroughly before commenting on them, much like how Tabata HIIT has been one of the biggest marketing gimmicks in the fitness industry over the last 15 years.

😁 😁

Ethan Garcia8 said:How is it even possible to improve pull-up performance by focusing exclusively on deadlifts? 😁

It’s common sense. If you want to get better at pull-ups, you actually have to do pull-ups. You aren't going to improve your pull-up numbers just by grinding out deadlifts. Simple as that.

Ethan Garcia8 said:How is it even possible to improve at running while spending all your time on a bike?

It’s unbelievable. As far as I can tell, runners primarily run. Cycling is nothing more than an off-season hobby used to recover from injuries or just to kill the monotony. Have you ever actually seen a runner out on a bike path during peak season? No, you haven't. It might be fine to load different muscle groups occasionally—those specific movements we don't normally utilize in our primary sport—but only up to a point. There is such a thing as specificity.

Ethan Garcia8 said:How is it even possible to improve vertical jump performance by doing nothing but deadlifts?

Unbelievable. Just look at the thread above.

Ethan Garcia8 said:Juice and disbelief. How is it even possible to get better at running while only doing squats?

It’s impossible. There isn't any real physiological overlap between the two sports, aside from VO2max or anaerobic capacity. That's about it.
Do sprinters lift weights and handle relatively heavy loads—maybe even kettlebells? Never heard of it, yet here we are. Sprinters train for a specific kind of running where explosive power is everything. Middle-distance and long-distance runners hit the gym too, but their focus is on full-body conditioning and core stability, typically using much lighter weights during the off-season.

Ethan Garcia8 said:Pure disbelief. Why do people bother jumping rope, lifting tires, doing pushups—doing basically everything under the sun—when, in principle, they're just training for some basic boxing? 😁

Sure, they do that, but is the goal to build muscle and strengthen the cardiovascular system, rather than just refining technical skill? You aren't going to win an opponent in the ring just by jumping rope or swinging a kettlebell, are you? You need specific drills, like heavy bag work, don't you?

You constantly conflate sport-specific skills with

Ethan Garcia8 said:Oh, wow. Is it actually possible that things are interconnected after all?

I certainly hope so. It isn't that complicated once you grasp the principles.

What else is there to explain regarding the Tabata protocol?

Charles Chavez5 said:That’s just not how it works. If you want to get better at pull-ups, you actually have to do pull-ups. You aren't going to see any improvement there just by focusing on deadlifts.

Not true, and honestly, it sounds like you’re pretty new to training. It’s been proven in practice that you can. 🙂 I actually added three reps to my pull-up max just from training with kettlebells, even though I wasn't doing any pull-ups at all during that stretch.

It’s impossible. As far as I know, runners primarily run. Cycling is usually just an off-season way to stay active after an injury or to break up the monotony. Have you ever seen pro runners out on a bike riding around a track during the season? I haven't, and neither have you.

Well, you managed to miss almost every point here. There is a direct cause-and-effect relationship between activities. If someone can handle a stage in the Tour de France without breaking a sweat, they could probably go out and run a 6.2 miles decent time right now, even if they haven't picked up a running shoe in years.

I seriously doubt you're a coach, or if you are, you didn't spend much time studying the science behind it.

What exactly do you need me to clarify about Tabata?

How about this: why don't you explain why Tabata and HIIT are such massive marketing ploys and who is actually making money off them? Where in the city can we find these "hardcore" crowds throwing money at Tabata and HIIT—two supposedly ultra-intense workouts? 😁 Who are these people pushing your hype? How can you talk so confidently when you're clearly just talking nonsense? 😁

Why do you think Tabata is just some big marketing gimmick? Honestly, there isn’t even anything being "sold" here—you could explain the whole damn program in two sentences and be done with it.

Ethan Garcia8 said:Not true, and clearly you have very little experience with training. It is proven in practice that you can. 🙂 I gained +3 pull-ups solely thanks to my bike, even though I didn't do any pull-ups during that period.

Personal anecdotes and locker room stories aren't really something I care to get into.

Ethan Garcia8 said:As usual, you missed every single point. There is a cause-and-effect relationship between activities; if you can ride the Tour de France without issue, you can run 6.2 miles just fine, even if you've never run a day in your life—and do it with respectable times..

Riding the Tour de France and running 6.2 miles despite never having run before still falls under your explanations of correlation in sports. However, the fact remains that cyclists preparing for the Tour de France conduct their training exclusively on bikes, regardless of your rudimentary ignorance of the sport.

Ethan Garcia8 said:Honestly, I doubt you're much of a trainer, or you learned very little in college.

Perhaps I learned a little in college, but what remains is certainly more than enough for you.☕

Ethan Garcia8 said:So, could you start by explaining why Tabata HIIT and HIIT are marketing ploys and who profits from them? Where in the city can we see these supposedly intense people throwing money at Tabata and HIIT, both high-intensity workouts? 😁 Who are these people peddling your nonsense? How do you feel talking such nonsense? 😁

I am not quite sure who is talking nonsense?

HIIT isn't a novelty, nor is it some spectacularly unique training method; such workouts have existed since the mid-50s. HIIT workouts are highly effective, just not within the specific constraints and short durations defined by Tabata. Tabata simply exploited that and marketed it as a way to "get fit and slim in 4 minutes."😂 You believe that? Fine, keep believing it. Just so we're clear, you can't just swap out the Tabata protocol for bells, bags, or push-ups like those gym trainers tell you. The focus shifts entirely based on weight and technique. That isn't Tabata. He spent his time in a lab using stationary bikes, not playing around with naive lifters in a local gym.

It was actually quite simple: he split subjects into two groups. One performed HIIT with 20 seconds of work and 10 seconds of rest over several sets, while the other group worked at moderate intensity. Both used stationary bikes.

His data showed the HIIT group saw a 14% greater increase in VO2max compared to the moderate group, which saw a 10% increase. Furthermore, the HIIT group boosted their anaerobic capacity by 28% compared to the moderate group in just six weeks.😂

How is that possible? For a naive person like you, anything is possible, right?😂 Here is how
he presented the results: the moderate group ended up with a higher VO2max at the end of the study (moving from 52 to 57 ml/kg/min), but the Tabata group started with a lower initial VO2max and gained more overall (from 48 to 55 ml/kg/min). Where does that 14% miracle come from?

There is no method on earth that increases oxygen uptake by 14% in six weeks or boosts anaerobic capacity by 28%. Remember that. Do you think pro athletes are stupid? Do you think they spend their entire lives training for nothing?

Also, the Tabata group showed a 28% increase in anaerobic capacity over the moderate group simply because the moderate group wasn't even training anaerobically to begin with.

Furthermore, there is zero evidence that the Tabata protocol is more effective for weight loss than any other activity-based method.

Anything else?

Look, I won't beat around the bush: if you haven't heard of the Tabata protocol yet, you really need to get on board. It’s an incredibly efficient way to train—super short sessions, massive intensity, and the results speak for themselves. You can apply it to just about any type of exercise because the magic is in that high-intensity burst, which works regardless of the movement you choose. It’ll cost you $0.00, so there's no sense in calling this some fancy marketing gimmick.

Ethan Garcia8 said:Look, I won't get too worked up about this, but if you haven't heard of Tabata, go listen right now. It’s a brilliant, efficient training method—extremely short, incredibly intense, and the results are stellar. You can apply it to anything because the core is high-intensity training, which is always effective in any form. It'll cost you $0.00, so don't bother looking for some fancy marketing gimmick.

Even Mr. Tabata himself couldn't have crafted a better marketing slogan than this.😂

How about this one: "In just 4 minutes a day, make up for everything you lost over the last 30 years."

Since I clearly can't talk sense into you, fine. Keep doing whatever you believe in, even if you're wrong.😂
I suppose they'll charge you extra at the local gym just because some fitness fanatic needs to explain such profound wisdom.

Charles Chavez5 said:Even Mr. Tabata himself couldn't have dreamed up a better marketing slogan than this.😂

It’s more like, "Make up for thirty years of neglect in just four minutes a day."

I can see I'm not going to change your mind, and that's fine. Stick to what you believe in, even if it's misguided.😂
Just don't be surprised when the trainer at your local gym has to give you a lecture because they feel the need to explain the "obvious" truths of fitness.

Why should anyone take advice from someone like Charles Chavez5 on an internet forum? 😁 Let people try it for themselves; there's no harm in testing it out. It doesn't seem very smart to argue against it so aggressively without actually trying it first. If someone wants to give it a shot, go for it. 🙂