Motown Classics

Kyle Miller4 said:nah, Otis is actually on Stax😁

Aha, I just did a little digging on Google and realized Wilson Pickett was on Stax too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHBCf5ioge0 🙏:

Northern Soul is king, period.

Edwin Starr is just on another level... he's the absolute best.
😍

George Howard59 said:northern soul is #1

Man, Edwin Starr is just on another level for me!
😍

When it comes to Northern Soul, it's kind of a catch-all category—it doesn't really have one specific, signature sound (unlike the legendary Motown or Stax vibes we were talking about earlier).
Basically, if a record came out on some obscure little label, people call it Northern Soul.
So, you end up with all sorts of different styles mixed in there.
Personally, I find Northern Soul compilations to be pretty much "hit or miss"—sometimes you find absolute gems, and other times I'm just skipping through tracks.

By the way, Edwin Starr actually released music on Motown!

Exactly, label matters

A couple of years back, I picked up a killer collection of Northern Soul singles, and most of them were Motown hits!
Besides Edwin Starr, I’m really digging The Temptations and Arthur Adams—if I’m remembering his hit "Mornin' Train" right!

Honestly though, collecting original pressings in this genre is a pretty expensive hobby...

George Garcia24 said:I knew my emails were going to attract some negative criticism. Look, you all can hate on America because of Barack Obama or George W. Bush—that's politics—but please, let's not make it about the music. Taste is subjective, sure, but Mr. Benjamin Thompson66, your claim that everything worthwhile from Motown can fit onto just two compilations... well, that honestly makes you look like a complete novice, and frankly, it's embarrassing.
Only The Supremes had about a hundred grand hits, but what about the others? Think about the Four Tops, The Temptations, Stevie Wonder, and so many, so many others who enjoyed even longer careers.
Motown records possessed a certain "something" that nobody else could replicate. From those very first few bars, you just knew—it was unmistakably Motown. Their session musicians (mostly jazz players, by the way) unfortunately didn't get their due until late in life or even posthumously, eventually earning their spots in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And their bassist, James Jamerson? He is, without question, the greatest bassist of all time.
The sound they pioneered will still be echoing through the next ten centuries.

Forget Obama, Bush, and all that nonsense. I've spent plenty of time listening to Motown, and as you noted, you can't really argue with taste. I've gone through four full CDs worth of Motown MP3s, and I reckon that's plenty. There’s a bit of everything in there. I never really connected with Stevie Wonder, personally. The Temptations might be my absolute favorites, but The Supremes? Not so much. That's all well and good, but I still maintain that a double compilation covers it.
I was just sharing what I love most about American music. But if we're adding rock to the mix, you've got the New York City scene from Velvet to this day, the West Coast vibes from the late '60s, and all that 60s garage psychedelia found on countless small band compilations.

George Howard59 said:Honestly, collecting that whole genre on original pressings is a pretty pricey hobby...

For me, it's definitely way too expensive.
Whenever I'm really craving some soul music, I just grab a compilation here and there—it's much easier on the wallet!

Austin Myers96 said:I wasn't actually aware of how dirty that Jukebox editorial staff's business was.
My god, look what they did to us...

Because of you, I ended up getting a three-day ban from the Forum, mostly because you went out of your way to label me some kind of chauvinist who hates our neighbors to the east.
But honestly? I’ve never hated Mexicans, nor did I hate what happened back in '91 when newspapers were publishing lists of addresses for people to target.
It’s just a historical fact that during the late sixties in Yugoslavia, there was this one single music magazine dedicated to pop and rock called Jukebox, and it was published in Belgrade. Now I feel bad for even mentioning that city; I didn't have any underlying bias or anything, though apparently, both you and the moderator thought I did. Jukebox didn't come out of Ljubljana, Skopje, or Podgorica—it came out of Belgrade. And I was actually pretty happy we had it, because I guess having one decent magazine is better than having none at all.
Look, Mr. Austin Myers96, you’re an incredibly sharp guy, but I suppose like anyone who's a bit too smart for their own good, you've got a slightly wicked streak in your character. Your musical knowledge is top-tier, I'll give you that, but your memory seems to be... let's say, highly selective.
You know perfectly well that every single issue of Jukebox had deep dives into Atlantic / Stax, yet they almost never featured a Motown artist. And on those rare occasions they did review a Motown record, someone was always complaining that they all sounded exactly the same.
Maybe that someone was you, who knows.

Grace Fox83 said:Off.

Since we're talking about frustrations...

I'm sitting here flipping through this massive music encyclopedia at the library today—it covers everything from the '40s to now, so it's a pretty heavy volume.
I flipped straight to the eighties.😍

I’m scanning through '80, '81, '82... '85... and nowhere, absolutely nowhere, am I finding European artists (not counting U2 or Madonna).

Nena, Scorpions, Falco😍, Laibach🤣 and the rest!

See, that's what gets to me.
If we're supposedly building an anthology, it feels wrong not to include everyone. I mean, I really don't get why Diana Ross is considered more influential than someone like Falco or the others mentioned above.

After being banned for three days, I've been dying to finally get back in here and reply. Comparing someone like Falco or Nena to Diana Ross? Honestly, it's like saying some local actress is better than Meryl Streep.
Nena had "99 Luftballons," Falco had "Rock Me Amadeus." Meanwhile, Diana Ross has had this incredibly long career—she’s still filling 20,000-seat arenas at 66—and specifically between 1964 and 1984, she recorded such gems, such absolute classics, that I have to wonder what planet you're living on. Just hop on Wikipedia, or go to YouTube and search for Diana Ross, and you won't just find hundreds, but thousands of her performances and songs. If I tried to list all her hits, I'd lose at least an hour, and I really don't have that kind of time.
First off, the women in her industry bow down to Diana Ross. Her peers. Aretha Franklin and Tina Turner, followed by Madonna and Whitney Houston, and even Beyoncé today—they all speak incredibly highly of her, using the kindest words possible.
She’s such a charismatic performer that Billboard actually named her the greatest entertainer of the 20th century back in the early seventies. Just type "Diana Ross I'm Coming Out" or "Boss" from her concert at the Forum in LA into YouTube, and you'll see what true charisma looks like. She didn't need pyrotechnics or twenty backup dancers to put on a show. Or, look up Diana Ross singing "We Shall Overcome"; if that doesn't bring a tear to your eye, you might have a heart of stone.
Diana Ross has opened World Cups, her songs have introduced the Olympic Games, she's performed for kings and queens, collected every award imaginable, and raised five beautiful children.
And yet, you try to put her in the same category as Falco or Nena. That’s just sacrilege.

Grace Fox83 said:I didn't say that🤷
It was just the tone you took once everyone else stayed silent about Motown that bothered me.
And yeah, who knows what today's pop music would look like if it weren't for America; we'll never know.
We owe them thanks for the diversity we have now.

I’m someone who loves European art and culture, so I felt like I had to jump in when it seemed like there was, well, some ungrounded bashing of the European musical legacy.😁

But then again, would Motown even exist if Europe hadn't paved the way for modern music earlier on?

My tone was a bit sharper, I guess, mostly because nobody was saying anything. It was only after I sharpened things up that people actually started chiming in.
You even admitted you're a fan of everything European, so, I don't know, maybe you aren't being totally objective right from the jump. Personally, I'm neither an Americanophile nor a Europhile; I don't really care where the music comes from, just whether it's good or bad. It could come from Cambodia or Japan and be sung in any language for all I care. Same goes for movies or books, I suppose. That makes me more objective than you, arguably. And if I say I prefer Motown over music produced here in the States, am I supposed to get labeled as hating my own country or my fellow Americans, or do I need to justify myself to you? I mean, I'm a local through and through, born and raised.
I've noticed that over the last decade or so, it's become pretty trendy—or "in," as they say these days—to talk down about America. Just like how back in the fifties and sixties people used to blindly worship everything coming out of the US, now it's fashionable to "trash" everything American. Meanwhile, those same people are perfectly happy watching incredibly mediocre movies and reading questionable bestsellers.

Kyle Miller4 said:No, Otis is Stax😁

As for this part, it's the first time I'm hearing about it here, I guess.

I wonder if you wrote that with good intentions, or if you were just "awkwardly surprised" and disagreeing? As you guys know, this year marked the 50th anniversary of the label, so there have been tons of new compilations released, along with plenty of stuff coming out from the endless vaults at Motown for the first time. I don't think any critics, ever, have claimed Stax is better than Motown or vice versa. But, I suppose there's a lot to read between the lines. There’s this massive, positive revaluation happening for Motown right now, and unfortunately, Michael Jackson's passing actually contributed to that—given how he and his brothers recorded for Motown (it's pronounced Motown, people, nobody seems to get that 'o' sound right) between 1969 and 1975.
So, here's a little quiz. Does anyone know which three tracks from the Motown hit factory were recorded by perhaps the greatest group of all time, The Beatles?
And also, which two American singers covered two Motown songs.
Whoever guesses correctly—or rather, knows the answer—will get a Motown CD from me. Though, that doesn't apply to Austin Myers96, who subtly accused me of being some kind of nationalistic show-off, while the moderator was being "politically correct" and slapped me with a three-day ban from the Forum.

Grace Fox83 said:Why would average American taste be considered good?🤷

Yeah, we’ve all heard about Motown! Diana Ross and The Supremes, Michael Jackson, the Jackson 5, Lionel Richie...

I don't really have a strong opinion on it; quality music is just quality music, whether it comes from Motown or whoever else, I guess.😉

Happy now?😁

Well, I already mentioned that America gave us jazz, swing, musicals, R&B, soul, country, Frank Sinatra, those timeless evergreen tracks—who could even list them all? So, how could their taste be anything but good? I was actually a bit surprised there weren't any comments about Motown, because Motown basically represents the quintessential American sound in the best possible sense. Between 1960 and 1972, that label churned out 110 top-ten hits on the American Hot Hundred, which is pretty massive, and in the States, a song is considered a hit once it breaks into the top forty. That means there were tons of songs sitting somewhere between numbers 11 and 40, too. I mean, surely none of those beautiful tracks touched anyone's heart? Or did nobody bother buying a single CD? This isn't some niche, elite music played by five people in some obscure dive bar; Berry Gordy's whole intention was to get white audiences to embrace African-American music, and honestly, he pulled it off completely.

Anonymous said:That music is special to me because it has this... "something"... I can't quite define it 😁
I'm not sure if Otis Redding falls under Motown (not that I'm an expert 🙈) but he's absolutely incredible too 🙏

Look, I'm no musician and I don't know a thing about music theory, but I'll try to explain this to myself or maybe to you—though I'd love for someone actually musically educated to jump in and set me straight.
First off, for about 90% of them, Motown records have this specific vibe where they’re both danceable and melodic at the same time. They don't really have those boring filler parts; a Motown track just kind of "grabs" you from the very start right through to the end. There aren't any dull passages, I guess.
Another thing is how they often use tambourines to punch up the rhythm, that amazing bass guitar sound, and a much more frequent use of string instruments than what was usually typical for African-American artists back then. Motown records aren't pure R&B, but they aren't pure pop either; they're more like this wonderful blend of the best parts of both genres.
I was actually just watching "Sister Act" a little bit ago, where W. Goldberg and the nuns do this phenomenal cover of Smokey Robinson's "My Guy." In the original version, the late Mary Wells sang it, and that song hit number one on the American charts back in the spring of 1964.
Then there's that second movie, with that cover of "Ain't No Mountain High Enough," which they even do in two different versions. That song, as performed by Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell, was a moderate hit (hitting number 19 in 1967), but it eventually made its way into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Three years later, Diana Ross took it to number one on Billboard with a completely different arrangement. She was nominated for a Grammy, though she didn't end up winning it.
I've noticed that a lot of new bands and singers have covered that song—which has such beautiful lyrics, by the way—over the last few years, and I'd say they've done it pretty successfully.
So, I suppose the problem with music today isn't necessarily a lack of good vocalists or talented musicians, but rather a crisis in songwriting. The songs themselves are just... bad.
Otis Redding was a Stax performer, but it's interesting that his biggest hit in Europe was actually with Smokey Robinson's "My Girl," which you probably know from The Temptations' repertoire—it was featured in some American movie about ten years ago.

George Garcia24 said:Falco's "Rock Me Amadeus".

I have to disagree with you there.

"Vienna Calling," "Der Kommissar", America, "Jeanny", "Jung Roemer"🙏, and later "Titanic" and "Out of the Dark"

He definitely wasn't as famous as his American counterparts, some of whom produced much lower quality music... Why? It comes down to language.😁

Do you love Motown?
Well, it's the same for me; I love all the artists mentioned in the previous post, especially Falco.
I hope that makes sense now.

And most importantly, I don't see how Diana Ross has any higher status in our culturally shallow nation than Falco does.
Sadly, those who actually do have that kind of status are rare.

I think it's foolish to try and compare two giants like Stax and Motown.
Let's just take the best from both. After all, music is an art form, and treating it this way—trying to rank them like this—is practically sacrilege.😉

Anonymous said:that music is special to me because it has this "something"... I can't quite put my finger on it 😁
I'm not sure if Otis Redding falls under Motown (I'm definitely no expert 🙈) but he's absolutely incredible too 🙏

Grace Fox83 said:I have to disagree with you.

Vienna Calling, Der Kommissar, America, Jeanny, Jung Roemer🙏 then later Titanic, Out of the Dark

He definitely wasn't as famous as his American colleagues, some of whom made much worse music... Why? Language, I guess.😁

Do you Love Motown?
Well, I feel the same way about the stuff I mentioned before, especially Falco
Hopefully that makes sense now.

And most importantly, I don't see Diana having any higher status in our generally shallow American culture than Falco does.
Those who actually do are rare, unfortunately.

I think it's kind of silly to compare two giants like Stax and Motown
Let's just take the best from both. Music is art, after all, and exposing it like this feels almost sacrilegious.😉

Well, I love Falco too, but his life and career were pretty short. I adore him, except for that first hit and Jeanny. But it's just a fact that Diana Ross had an incredibly long career with amazing songs. I know that until a year or two ago, she was third on the all-time charts for number one hits in the USA. Only The Beatles and Elvis Presley had more. I don't know, maybe Madonna, Whitney Houston, or Mariah Carey caught up to her, but quality-wise, their songs aren't as good as what Diana produced.
I know Diana Ross isn't really embraced here in America. Around here, people seem to think a Black singer has to either belt it out like Aretha Franklin or scream like Tina Turner to be considered good.
Diana Ross proves you don't need six octaves to convey emotion through your voice. Her voice is warm, convincing, clear, and flexible; I actually learned English by listening to her, The Supremes, and Frank Sinatra.
As for Stax and Motown, the numbers and the legacy point toward Motown.
It's like saying Goran Ivanišević is a better tennis player than Roger Federer, when Federer won Grand Slams 15 times and Ivanišević only won one (Wimbledon).
The biggest names at Stax were Otis Redding and Wilson Pickett, who are very, very weak compared to the heavy hitters at Motown.

Grace Fox83 said:Off.

Since we're talking about frustrations...

Today I’m flipping through this massive music encyclopedia at the library (covering everything from the '40s to now), but it's a pretty huge volume.
I skipped ahead to the eighties first.😍

I’m scanning through '80, '81, '82... '85... and nowhere—literally nowhere—do I see any European artists mentioned (and I'm not counting U2 or Madonna)

Like Nena, Scorpions, Falco😍, Laibach🤣 and so on!

See, that’s what gets to me.
If we're trying to build an anthology here, it seems only fair to mention everyone. I honestly don't get why Diana Ross is credited with having more impact on music than someone like Falco or the others I just listed.

There are thousands of music encyclopedias out there, and every single one looks at music through the lens of its own author and whatever market they're being sold in. Besides, encyclopedia writers are just people, after all—they have their own flaws, virtues, and biases. In one particular book, for instance, you won't find Barbra Streisand at all; she was probably just too "pop" or too "evergreen" for that specific writer's taste.
I guess I feel like music should be listened to more, rather than read about or watched via music videos. Maybe it's just me, but I think music was better back when musicians had long hair, instead of nowadays, when they spend endless hours in the gym just to bulk up their bodies. It might have been better if they'd spent that time actually practicing their instruments or honing their craft.
With money being so tight these days, I can just head over to YouTube and find plenty of stuff I missed out on during my younger years. Back then, there was no Internet or those TV appearances by international stars, and records were incredibly expensive—you basically had to buy them through bootleggers. So, you had to be selective in your head about what to buy. Now, on YouTube, I find genuine musical gems, and you even run into some really intelligent comments from regular pop/rock fans that wouldn't embarrass even the toughest rock critics.

George Garcia24 said:Time for a little trivia. Does anyone know which three tracks from the legendary Motown hit factory were covered by maybe the greatest band ever, The Beatles?
And also, which two American singers have done covers of two Motown songs?
Whoever guesses right—or rather, actually knows the answer—gets a Motown CD from me
.

I already know the first part, but only because I looked it up on Google, so that wouldn't be fair. 😁Should I say it?

George Garcia24 said:Motown records aren't just pure R&B, but they aren't strictly pop either; they're this incredible blend of the absolute best from both worlds.

That's exactly it.

George Garcia24 said:And then in the second movie, there's that cover of "Ain't No Mountain High Enough," actually in two different versions. That song, originally performed by Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell, was a moderate hit (hitting number 19 back in 1967), but it eventually made its way into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Three years later, Diana Ross took it to number 1 on Billboard with a totally different arrangement. She was even nominated for a Grammy Award, though she didn't take home the trophy.

Personally, I think the original is way better, even if Diana turned it into a completely different kind of song.

George Garcia24 said:Otis Redding was a Stax artist, but what's interesting is that his biggest hit in Europe was actually with Smokey Robinson's "My Girl"—which most people know through The Temptations—and it was featured in an American movie about ten years ago.

I'm actually watching it right now, and that song has been covered at least ten times, including versions by Michael Jackson, Marvin Gaye, and Stevie Wonder... plus, that 1991 movie was titled "My Girl" too.

Anonymous said:I mean, I know the first one, but only because I looked it up on Google, so that's hardly fair.😁 Should I say?

You're just wonderful. Honestly, my whole intention was just to point people toward that incredible, beautiful music. I'm actually glad you're Googling stuff—don't be shy about it, just write down what you found.
Try a little harder and see if you can find two of our older female singers who each recorded one Motown track.

I guess there aren't many takers left for this thread; maybe everyone is just deep in thought, weighing their options for tomorrow's vote.
Since nobody seems interested in tackling the quiz questions, I might as well just drop the answers here.
The Beatles actually recorded these three Motown tracks:😢the song title, the original artists, their peak position on the Hot Hundred, and the year.
1) Please Mr. Postman – performed by the girl group The Marvelettes, hit #1 (1961)
2) Money (That's What I Want) – originally by Barrett Strong, hit #23 (1960)
3) You've Really Got a Hold on Me – by The Miracles, hit #8 (1962)

As for our local singers who covered Motown hits:
1) Gabi Novak, who did a version of that massive 1966 Four Tops hit "Reach Out I'll Be There," which was a #1 smash in both the US and Great Britain.
2) Zdenka Kovačiček, who recorded an excellent version of The Temptations' 1966 track "Get Ready." That one actually fared better in Great Britain, peaking at #10, whereas it only hit #29 here in America.
It’s kind of funny, actually—"Get Ready" was also recorded in 1970 by the white rock group Rare Earth, who also happened to record for Motown, which is a bit of a curiosity, and they actually managed to climb all the way to #4 on Billboard.

George Garcia24 said:It looks like interest in this thread has totally dried up. Maybe everyone is just lost in thought, deciding who they're voting for in the next election.
Since nobody seems to be biting on the quiz questions, I figured I'd just drop the answers here.
The Beatles actually covered these three Motown tracks:😢here are the titles, the original artists, their peak positions on the Hot 100, and the years they were released.
1) Please Mr. Postman by The Marvelettes, which hit #1 (1961)
2) Money (That's What I Want) by Barrett Strong, which reached #23 (1960)
3) You've Really Got A Hold on Me by The Miracles, which peaked at #8 (1962)

As for our own female vocalists who covered Motown hits:
1) Dusty Springfield, who did a version of the massive 1966 Four Tops hit "Reach Out I'll Be There," which was a #1 smash in both the US and the United Kingdom.
2) Dusty Springfield, who recorded an awesome cover of The Temptations' 1966 track "Get Ready." That one actually performed better in the United Kingdom, hitting #10, while it only made it to #29 here in America.
Interestingly enough, "Get Ready" was also covered in 1970 by the white rock group Rare Earth—who, funnily enough, also recorded for Motown—and they managed to snag the #4 spot on Billboard.

The only person interested was me, trying to figure out those two ladies😬, but I couldn't nail it down. I asked a few people too, and nobody could help me... and why on earth did I even think of Dusty Springfield? 😵
But I definitely nailed that bit about the Beatles! 😁