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How much are we "conditioned" by Hollywood movies?

Started by silentpilot6 · · 👁 8 views · 56 replies

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Participants silentpilot6Morgan Rodriguez57David Price5feraltrucker5rowdysurfer13nimblemarlin6Paul Evans2ruggedfox28rustyscout34William Roberts2Nicholas Walker3Emily Thomas3ironmarlin1silentbear49analogpanther55goldenhound32Christian Howard2Karen Smith9Jesse Ortiz4Amanda Myers3John Taylor19Jessica Nguyen85wearymason36Richard Wilson4 …
John Taylor19 John Taylor19 Member
14 messages
joined Jul 2009
#41 ·
Missing the mark on the actual point isn't exactly a rare occurrence around here, especially when it comes to those poorly translated titles.

I’ve always leaned toward American media—that's just how I was raised—and I honestly struggle to get into anything from the Germans, the Japanese, or the Italians. It's just not my speed. But it is interesting to see how high-end production values can change the way you perceive things. For instance, seeing a title like "They Eat Dogs in China" felt like a total slap in the face; I was left sitting there like an idiot, almost unable to speak anything but Danish (or maybe Mexican, damn that Ratko). It's a similar feeling with Spanish media; whenever I'm watching Torente, there really isn't a better sense of humor out there than the Spanish style—I start cracking up the second the dialogue kicks in.
David Price5 David Price5 Regular
435 messages
joined Jul 2012
#42 ·
We all have an appreciation for high-quality production, whether it’s coming out of Hollywood or right here in the States..
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#43 ·
Interesting topic... feels to me like language is just the 'tip of the iceberg' regarding what we might call an Anglo-Saxon cinematic gestalt. Does that gestalt include certain core elements? Like, maybe a focus on that Protestant-style individualism, or how almost every movie follows some sort of 'journey' paradigm—whether it’s a hyperbolic internal shift where a character evolves, or a literal road movie. At its heart, there's this hero-type concept where the film connects with the audience on such a personal level that the act of watching the movie itself becomes a journey.

It’s quite different from those European existentialist contemplations or the theatrical flourishes you see in Asian cinema, which people over here always seem to watch as something exotic.

So, I find myself thinking... perhaps the English language in film acts as a kind of 'condition setting.' If that makes sense... the cognitive processing for a movie gets tuned to certain expectations based on that Anglo-Saxon gestalt, and then the film either disappoints or delights you based on whether it meets them.

And look... maybe this has nothing to do with what the OP is actually getting at... but, I don't know... it just occurred to me because that's more or less how I experience Anglo-Saxon films.
rustyscout34 rustyscout34 Active Member
110 messages
joined Aug 2009
#44 ·
Gerald Barrett25 said:Interesting topic... I guess language is just the tip of the iceberg when you look at what might be called an Anglo-Saxon cinematic gestalt. Maybe this gestalt involves some fundamental stuff, like how Hollywood stories always seem to focus on that Protestant-style individualism. It feels like there's this constant "journey" paradigm in almost every movie—whether it’s a hyperbolic internal journey where a character undergoes a massive change, or just a literal road movie. At its core, everything revolves around this hero-type idea that connects with the audience on a personal level, making the act of watching the film feel like a journey itself.

Heh, I always just assumed movies from the UK were categorized by genre, director, release year, or where they came from. Turns out—they're all just lumped together. paradigm Travel and religious individualism. First off, I'm just wondering why on earth people even use that phrase. Maybe some people find it interesting, but I guess there isn't much to say about Anglo-Saxon films. It’s just one of those niche things.By definition, we’re talking about Old English. You almost never hear it used in movies set in English-speaking regions—honestly, it's incredibly rare. I mean, we're discussing literature here, but when it comes to film, it's barely there at all.

Old EnglishOld English, which some people also call Anglo-Saxon, is an... Maybe it’s worth looking at the early stages of how the English language actually formed. It didn't just pop up overnight. You have to go back to Old English—the stuff spoken across parts of what we now call England and southeastern Scotland between the mid-5th and mid-12th centuries. It's pretty much the foundation for everything we're using today. I guess people forget how much that specific era shaped our modern way of speaking. that was spoken spoken and written in parts of what are now England and southeastern Scotland Between the mid-5th century and the mid-12th century.

So, you're going to use that "inappropriate" Anglo-Saxon term to label movies from English-speaking regions, even though by definition it's something else entirely. Plus, you basically lumped all those Anglo films under the concept of gestalt—that German word for form or shape—and treated that form like some kind of universal paradigm. Honestly, to generalize the entire history of Hollywood like that, you have to be pretty brave. I won't even get into the other insults and adjectives I could use. It’s just a lot. It's a long way off. It’s hard to talk about objective truth here. I guess my take is that we've always been culturally aligned with Western traditions, so it makes sense that our taste in movies followed suit. On the flip side, there's the undeniable fact that throughout the 20th century, Hollywood basically functioned as the global standard for filmmaking. It wasn't just an option; it was the industry itself.

Gerald Barrett25 said:It's a far cry from those shallow, Euro-trash existentialist musings or that over-the-top, theatrical Asian melodrama that people over here always lap up just because it feels exotic.

Why call it trash? Labeling Asian cinema as nothing more than theatrical overacting can only come from someone who hasn't actually watched an Asian film, or maybe just someone harboring a massive amount of prejudice against them. Who knows, maybe you think Bruce Lee is the only paradigm for Asian filmmaking? Honestly, I don't like the elitism, especially when it's this superficial. Best regards, and don't take this the wrong way. 👍
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#45 ·
rustyscout34 said:it's basically just this paradigm of travel and religious individualism. First off, I’m genuinely confused by the phrase Anglo-Saxon film. By definition, that refers to Old English, which you barely see in modern English-speaking cinema, if at all.

Look, maybe after twelve years away, I've lost my touch with expressing myself in American... but looking back at what I wrote, I really can't wrap my head around how anyone could have misinterpreted me so badly.

Alright, let's just break this down... I feel like language is just the tip of the iceberg for something much deeper ... see, when I say "language," I mean the English language, since that's the topic... so if that's only 1/11th of the whole picture... what I'm trying to get at is that language is just the formal surface of a much larger phenomenon... those other 10/11ths... and that "something" is the Anglo-Saxon film gestalt. To me, "Anglo-Saxon" acts as a general descriptor for countries where English is the dominant tongue—places like the United Kingdom, the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. But they aren't defined by the language alone; it's their history, their traditions, democratic principles, and their social and cultural heritage... things like the WASP identity in the US. Then there's the "film gestalt" part... think of it as a cinematic system, the totality of a film from the moment an idea is born to the people consuming it... the complete ecosystem. So, the "gestalt" means this entire system is shaped by those Anglo-Saxon foundations (with the US and UK leading the way). My point is that within such an environment, you inevitably end up with a specific cinematic "paradigm"—essentially, a set of rules for what works and what doesn't in film. This creates a value system where a movie like > can be hailed as one of the greatest ever. And that specific film is exactly what I'd call the "individualism of the Protestant spirit." Don't take "Protestant" too literally as a religious thing; it's a broader concept tied to how society and the individual developed within it (and goodness knows, I shouldn't have to explain everything). Not to mention how the superhero trope is a quintessential Anglo-Saxon theme—running the line from > to >—a concept that doesn't really exist in the same way in Continental European or Asian cinema. So, in this "Anglo-Saxon film gestalt," the English language is just a formality because they need a medium to speak, but the real influence is that cinematic paradigm—all those values communicated through language and imagery that we absorb without even realizing it. That "closeness" to the paradigm is why the English language sounds so natural to us. My point is... the Latvian language could sound just as pleasant if they had produced as many great films in Riga as they did in > or >.

Reading this back, I think it's only going to get more ridiculous... 😳
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#46 ·
rustyscout34 said:Calling Asian movies "theatrical exaggerations" is something only someone who’s never actually sat through an Asian film—or maybe just harbors a massive grudge against them—would say. Who knows, maybe you think Bruce Lee is the only blueprint for Asian cinema?

😍

Just wait until you hear my take on Indian movies... 🤣
rustyscout34 rustyscout34 Active Member
110 messages
joined Aug 2009
#47 ·
Quote: Legion
Gerald Barrett25 said:Look, maybe after being away from the States for twelve years, I’ve lost my edge when it comes to expressing myself in English... but I'm looking back at what I wrote, and I still don't get it. I have no idea how someone could totally misinterpret what I was actually saying.

Alright, let's just break this whole thing down to nothing...

Thanks for trying to explain things, I guess. Not like you're Tadijanovic or anything, so there's no way for me to actually know what you mean when you throw out metaphors like the tip of the iceberg or that whole made-up "Hollywood sucks" movie gestalt thing. I guess there’s this whole idea about the Anglo-Saxon movie gestalt. Maybe it exists, maybe it doesn't. It feels like a certain way stories are put together over here in the States. I don't know. It's just an observation, I suppose. If you search Google, you won't find these specific phrases anywhere else on the web besides this forum. I guess you could express the same idea using simpler language, but that actually takes more effort. It’s much easier to just throw out some wordplay and let people here try to decipher what the poet meant or figure out if they were using a word in its broad or narrow sense. I suppose I can agree that language isn't the cause of conditioning, but rather a necessary consequence of it. On the other hand, I don't really buy your explanation of conditioning through the lens of gestalt. If that were true, it would mean every single Anglo-American movie fits into that gestalt—because for something to be conditioning, it has to be something general, not something specific or isolated. Objectively speaking, I think there are way more exceptions to your theory than there are rules. Your attempt to explain conditioning through gestalt doesn't really hold up; the whole idea of a singular Anglo-American cinematic gestalt falls apart. Maybe it applies to maybe 2 or 3% of movies, but trying to lump all of American cinema into one single gestalt is a pretty bold claim. 👍

P.S.
Where did you forget the American language? If I may ask.
wearymason36 wearymason36 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Apr 2008
#48 ·
I’ve been hooked on English-language movies since I was a kid, mostly because all the heavy hitters and action flicks (🤣) were in English, and even sitcoms like Cheers were. French and German cinema always felt like endless, sappy romances to me—honestly, gross, I’d rather eat spoiled milk (🤣).

So, it’s not that I’m "conditioned" 👏 by the language itself; it's more about this lingering bias that anything else is just boring. Sure, as I've gotten older, I've discovered some great Spanish dramas, French comedies, and epic Chinese films, but I still gravitate toward English. You can actually catch the nuances in the acting, the subtle accents, and the clever wordplay without missing a beat...
rustyscout34 rustyscout34 Active Member
110 messages
joined Aug 2009
#49 ·
Gerald Barrett25 said:Wait until you hear what I call Indian movies... 🤣

We all need to stand together against this kind of exclusion and prejudice—and maybe even oppression if we have to, 🤣. It just holds everything back. It’s a massive roadblock to progress and any kind of productive movement, including filmmaking itself. If we didn't have directors and artists like Park Chan-wook, Wong Kar-wai, Yoji Yamada, Ang Lee , Chen Kaige, Takashi Miike, Kim Ki-duk, Sion Sono (not to mention the old guard!),.. the world would be missing out on top-tier cinema. We cinephiles would lose the kind of enjoyment that the rotting West and America just can't provide. So, I guess my joke is: Cinephiles of the world (or at least this forum), unite! 👍
John Taylor19 John Taylor19 Member
14 messages
joined Jul 2009
#50 ·
Auuuu, where the hell is this all heading...😕
rustyscout34 rustyscout34 Active Member
110 messages
joined Aug 2009
#51 ·
John Taylor19 said:Auuuu, where the hell did this all go wrong.......😕

What kind of post is this? 😕
If you don't actually have a comment or an opinion on conditioning, why bother trolling like this? It's just useless. (Not a question, so don't even try to answer me here!) 🤷
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#52 ·
silentpilot6 said:I wasn't actually talking about big Hollywood blockbusters specifically, just movies shot in English.
To be real... a buddy of mine wouldn't even touch trop de elita because the movie—regardless of what 👍 or 🙏 is—"wasn't in English and he's used to watching stuff in English" 😁...
I'll admit, it trips me up sometimes too since my English is solid but I barely know any other languages. Still, it never crosses my mind to skip a movie just because it's in a foreign tongue... honestly, most of them are pretty easy to follow, and half the time I just turn off the subtitles and listen to the dialogue 🙂

I will say, I struggle with Asian cinema... if I'm not paying super close attention, I lose track of who everyone is 😁, names don't stick and, let's be honest, sometimes the actors all start looking the same to me 😁

My brother is the exact same way—if it isn't in English, he won't watch it...

And man, compared to Watchman, trop de elita was easily the best new movie I've seen in the last two years...
Karen Smith9 Karen Smith9 Active Member
183 messages
joined Apr 2013
#53 ·
rustyscout34 said:we all need to stand together against this kind of exclusion and prejudice—and even oppression, if necessary, 🤣. It won't get us anywhere; in fact, it’s just a massive roadblock to progress and any kind of productive growth, including cinematic creativity. If we didn't have directors and artists such as Park Chan-wook, Wong Kar-wai, Yoji Yamada, Ang Lee, Chen Kaige, Takashi Miike, Kim Ki-duk, and Sion Sono (not to mention the old guard!),.. the world would be deprived of truly masterful cinema, and us cinephiles would lose out on the kind of joy that our decaying West and America simply cannot provide. So, I'm shouting it from the rooftops: Cinephiles of the world (or at least this forum), unite! 👍

Oh, I could go on about that until sunrise.😁 Basically, Asian cinema is a godsend after the total poisoning of Hollywood...
John Taylor19 John Taylor19 Member
14 messages
joined Jul 2009
#54 ·
rustyscout34 said:What kind of post is this even? 😕
If you don't actually have a comment or an opinion on conditioning, why bother trolling like this for no reason? (And no, that isn't a question, so please don't try to answer me here!) 🤷

I have an opinion, and I’ve already stated it. This isn't even a response to you specifically; it's just that everyone has descended into some sort of amateur psychoanalysis of one another, which makes reading this whole thread pretty ridiculous. You're all just talking in circles...☕
Grace Bishop70 Grace Bishop70 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Oct 2007
#55 ·
Personally, if a movie is actually good and catches my interest, I couldn't care less what language is being spoken. Aside from the fact that I need subtitles for everything except English—which, let's be honest, usually means losing a little bit of the nuance in translation—whether it's Italian, Spanish, French, or Japanese 😍 makes absolutely no difference to me. I just love cinema too much to pass up a great story simply because of the dialogue.
What I can't stand, however, is dubbed movies 😠
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#56 ·
John Taylor19 said:I have an opinion and I gave it. This isn't an answer to you, it's just that you all started psychoanalyzing one another, which makes it pretty ridiculous to read. Just aimless rambling...☕

so maybe... it might be funny... but who knows... the thread title itself contains a key term from psychoanalysis: "conditioned"... and I don't know about the rest of you, but my mind immediately goes to those poor Pavlov's dogs 😳 and that whole concept... and when I sit with it for a second, I see there's actually something there... being overexposed to something—no matter how much you resist—eventually takes its toll... so in relation to the movie, it's a vital concept for me—even if I do love to "ramble," as you put it 😍

well, since I need to ramble a bit... I still owe an answer to this:
rustyscout34 said:And where did you forget your American English, if I may ask?

Some people who've been on this forum long enough know I've been in Canada for 12 years now, though I was watching movies in English without subtitles way back in elementary school... however, what's personally fascinated me is the process over the last decade where I've become emotionally sensitive to English words... for instance, sometimes it was much easier to say something in English because saying that same thing in American would feel too heavy with emotional charge... that simple intimacy with certain words or phrases would trigger a specific chemical reaction (I don't know whether to go into detail... maybe I'd blush or look away or something... in that sense) so it was just easier to say it in English... and now, that's started happening to me with English especially when I try reading books translated or originally written in English that I used to read in American... so, you're wondering what I'm getting at... I'm saying that for me, a movie is primarily what they call a "storytelling medium" and where—for me—a word spoken the right way still carries more weight than, I don't know... "long shots" or "jump cut editing" blah blah blah in some movie... which is why—again, for me—David Lynch is the greatest director ever, because he understands that the visual aspect of a movie is there to create context, but that context is worthless if what is said within that visual context isn't worthy of the visuals themselves... incidentally, something like this is my own version of mental masturbation... weird, I know 😳

anyway... having rewatched all his movies (since I saw some way back down south) with this conditioning regarding the emotional weight of the English language that's formed over the last 12 years... I rediscovered this cinematic genius... to the point where—as someone mentioned in the thread about >—I don't haveHell might as well pop that DVD back in and give it another watch...

I mean, is there actually any point to this? 🤷
rustyscout34 rustyscout34 Active Member
110 messages
joined Aug 2009
#57 ·
Living in Canada is nice, I guess, assuming you aren't just watching movies all day... I get what you mean about language. I suppose when you use a language more often, you start connecting with the words differently. Maybe that’s just how it works for everyone. For me, anyway. jerk Sounds less offensive than... piece of trashlol. also, it’s pretty important to me that the movie is...Storytelling is a medium. I guess that’s how some people see it. Maybe. It’s just a way to pass things along. Not much more than that, really.Nah, I don't really need that. I can enjoy a movie even if the plot is hidden—or even just plain nonsensical—by leaning into low-brow interpretations and how subjective the whole experience feels. I guess I just doubt that... David Lynch Even though he's incredible, I guess he's easily the greatest director ever (besides... Orson Welles, Alfred Hitchcock, Akira Kurosawa, Woody Allen, Stanley Kubrick, Jean-Luc Godard, Ingmar Bergman, François Truffaut...I guess, in my opinion... David Lynch The problem, and honestly maybe the genius part, is that his visual context is just all over the place. Sometimes it’s way too wide for my taste, and other times it feels completely off. I guess that's just how it is.EraserheadI guess there’s some kind of analysis happening here. Maybe. I don't really see much to go on. Nicholas Gessler That's pretty interesting. Thanks for the link. Bye.

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