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Why was the thread "How much crime can we tolerate from partisans?" deleted?

Started by Jessica Gomez4 · · 👁 4 views · 20 replies

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Participants Jessica Gomez4Alexander Brown5crimsonjackal63Ronald AllenJerry Robertsnimblewalker58Sarah Wilson95Aaron MartinA
Jessica Gomez4 Jessica Gomez4 NewcomerOP
1 message
joined Sep 2007
#1 ·
Man, they sure move fast when it comes to deleting stuff! 😲

Seriously, this topic just hits a massive nerve with you guys, doesn't it?

I guess you’re all just dying to shut down any conversation about those mass graves filled with victims from the old regime?

Do you honestly think scrubbing the internet is going to make those people disappear?

You really think everyone's just going to forget?

Well, you're dead wrong. 🙄
Alexander Brown5 Alexander Brown5 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Mar 2009
#2 ·
Jeremy Fisher48 said:Talk about quick deletions! 😲

This topic really gets under your skin, doesn't it?

Can't wait for a single thread regarding mass graves filled with resistance fighters to be wiped away?

Do you honestly think scrubbing it erases those people who were smothered?

Think it’ll just be forgotten?

You are dead wrong. 🙄


Well, here are some potential indirect answers to your question:

First comment

Second comment

There are more, but this is plenty to show how moderation is handled here. They’d probably delete tonight's episode of "CNN" if they could, because it raises the question of whether any of those criminals were actually punished.

So we arrive at the answer to the first question from the "first comment," which should be: Yes, they still would if given the chance today!
As for the second question from the "first comment": Maybe. Not right away, though—just as they surface. (That should have happened back in 1991, following the example of the USA and how they treated Japanese citizens after the attack on Pearl Harbor).
The third answer to the question in the "first comment" would be: We’ve known since November 1996 when that percentage (not of the American people, but of American citizens) was finally called by its real name. But it was too late; the number has only grown since then. Their loud presence is an insult to the rest of the American people who still make up the majority.

This reaction—deleting the topic—was likely triggered by this latest discovery of a mass grave. Who knows which one this is, or how many more are out there. But they've spent forty-five years learning how to erase the truth and write their own version coming out of Belgrade, and they seem to think the same tactics work today.
crimsonjackal63 crimsonjackal63 Active Member
55 messages
joined Mar 2012
#3 ·
Resonator
By dodging the reality of these crimes and burying the truth, people are just fueling more hatred and starting a whole new cycle of conflict.

Either bring the conversation back to the topic I started, or give me an actual answer backed up by real arguments.
Ronald Allen Ronald Allen Active Member
160 messages
joined Oct 2010
#4 ·
Jeremy Fisher48 said:Man, they sure move fast when it comes to deleting stuff! 😲

You guys are seriously obsessed with this topic!

Can you guys just wait one second without trying to scrub any talk about mass graves full of resistance fighters?

Do you honestly think erasing a thread makes those people disappear?

Think people are just going to forget?

You're dead wrong. 🙄

Look, I didn't delete the thread, but I can tell you one thing—this isn't going anywhere. It probably got nuked because there are already at least three other threads on this site and its subforums covering the resistance, the Nazis, and their atrocities in every possible way.
Plus, that poll wasn't exactly great. So, I guess we can all agree that too much of a good thing is still too much.
crimsonjackal63 crimsonjackal63 Active Member
55 messages
joined Mar 2012
#5 ·
I’m starting this thread solely because some moderator (Resonator?) decided to take a massive, current issue—finding those buried Americans in a pit over in Canada—and dump it into the Yugoslavia subforum instead.

That move sends a very clear message, which is basically the standard operating procedure for public life here in America.
Just sweep everything under the rug and make sure nobody ever takes responsibility for the evil that was done.
Jerry Roberts Jerry Roberts Member
16 messages
joined Apr 2011
#6 ·
It’s pretty obvious the boss found a fresh way to fund this place. Now they won't let anyone actually speak their mind 😉

It reminds me of Babic. That guy was such an idiot he basically confessed on his own blog who was paying him and why.
Jerry Roberts Jerry Roberts Member
16 messages
joined Apr 2011
#7 ·
Ronald Allen said:I didn't delete the thread, but I can promise you one thing: this stuff isn't going anywhere. It likely got pulled because we already have at least three separate threads floating around Politics and its subforums covering everything from partisans to Nazis and their atrocities in every possible configuration.
And honestly, the poll wasn't exactly great either. So, I think we can all agree that too much of a good thing is still too much.

Meanwhile, there are 378 threads about the corrupt Sanader and the fascist Republican Party, and five more pop up every single day on that exact same topic, yet they just sit there untouched.

Who are you trying to kid?
Ronald Allen Ronald Allen Active Member
160 messages
joined Oct 2010
#8 ·
Jerry Roberts said:There are like 378 different threads about that crooked Sanader guy or the fascist Republican Party, and then five more pop up every single day on the exact same topic, yet they just sit there untouched.

Who are you people kidding?

Yeah, but I mean, "Sanader and his crew" is such a huge, vague umbrella term, and there’s always some new drama involving them; the second it looks like topics should be merged, they either get merged or those older, less relevant threads just get shut down.
And honestly, you guys bring up partisans and Nazis way more often than necessary—it's been happening for a long time now—so I guess it's pretty obvious why that thread got closed.
nimblewalker58 nimblewalker58 Active Member
75 messages
joined Jan 2008
#9 ·
Let’s kick off a new thread here on Politics where we can start documenting every single site used during World War II—covering both the Nazi atrocities and the partisan actions alike—complete with direct links to historical records, archives, and books, just so we can strip away any biased, fanatical arguments from the mix.

The idea is this: we provide a summary and the primary sources, and then we move into actual discussions regarding the historical, social, psychological, or even geostrategic reasons behind specific crimes. But let’s be clear—I want this done without the unnecessary emotional outbursts, because I have no interest in watching people turn this into a "your side vs. my side" shouting match or some endless cycle of bashing one faction against the other...
Sarah Wilson95 Sarah Wilson95 Regular
267 messages
joined Sep 2006
#10 ·
@ nimblewalker58, I think you know deep down that there is a certain subset of users here on the Politics board who aren't historians or even particularly well-versed in history, relying instead on daily news snippets or biased literature they happen to favor; while I am certainly not suggesting they are actively trying to stage an "activist" intervention, their contributions rarely lead to any kind of objective discussion.

MOST OF THE TIME, these discussions inevitably devolve over the years into nothing more than a gutter of insults, petty bickering, and the fabrication of scientific facts—not to mention the most distasteful thing of all: attempts to rewrite history in a truly grotesque fashion.

However, your recent comment really adds fuel to that fire:

where do we even begin listing all the execution sites of Americans during WWII—both from the Nazi regime and the partisans?

First and foremost, are you referring to the casualties caused by rogue military units that refused to accept unconditional surrender—much like their own Wehrmacht command—along with the civilians caught in their wake? No one died in those instances simply because they were American, Mexican, Ukrainian, or Muslim; they didn't die based on their identity. On the other hand, the Nazis DID murder people solely based on their ethnic or religious background, as well as targeting Americans who refused to support the Nazi regime.

Because of that distinction, you can't just cram all of that into a single sentence or topic and create such a reductive muddle.
Since
I believe that one should possess a foundational level of knowledge, and as a moderator, you really shouldn't be making such reckless statements, at the very least.

At the end of the day, this is a forum—an online debate, a place for entertainment or casual information exchange—and if you want this space to maintain any sense of seriousness or substance, statements like yours fly in the face of both scientific fact and basic logical frameworks.

That is why, in my opinion—which I have expressed several times since joining this forum—topics like events from World War II or its immediate aftermath, as well as various issues regarding the old Yugoslavia era, should simply be moved to the History sub-forum; I don't see the old Yugoslavian discussions as a solution either, but the History section should provide a much more serious and organized flow for these matters.

On the Politics board, aside from current political events and commentary, there really isn't a place for these types of topics anymore.

Partly because of the inherent nature of the Politics section, as I've mentioned, and partly due to specific users and their style of communication, things have simply gone too far; furthermore, leaving these topics on the Politics board directly aids those who, in real life, try to distract the public, cloud the truth, or whatever else you want to call the propaganda tactics used by political elites and media puppets to avoid addressing actual, pressing problems by resorting to the tried-and-true recipe of manufactured tension and pseudo-historical gymnastics.
nimblewalker58 nimblewalker58 Active Member
75 messages
joined Jan 2008
#11 ·
Don't even think about paraphrasing my posts. If I had gone on to mention the Chetniks, the Circassians, or the Belgrade extremists...
Half of them wouldn't have had a clue what I was even talking about. Honestly, I think I'm being much clearer this way, don't you?

A crime is a crime, plain and simple. Extrajudicial killings—just taking someone out without a trial? That’s a crime, period. And when it comes to children, they are civilians, hands down, regardless of whose side they were on.

What’s actually wrong with a statement that’s backed up by a newspaper quote, even if it happens to be some low-rent tabloid? Honestly, maybe that kind of sensationalism is exactly what we need right now—it at least provides a target, a chance for someone to step up and set the record straight. But there's a catch, isn't there? We have to stop making these things personal. There ought to be a universal rule that applies to everyone, regardless of which side they were on in past wars, that we simply don't drag families through the mud.

EDIT: I realized I completely glossed over the historical context of that quote. Since modern historians still haven't reached a consensus on events that happened so recently, I suppose we should probably skip the history section of the forum for now.

Honestly, looking at how politicians operate these days, they’ve already become quite skilled at the art of argumentation—and for those who haven't quite mastered the craft yet, I'm sure they'll pick it up soon enough. Besides, do we really need some sanitized forum governed by a strict "zero tolerance for insults" policy? You don't learn how to actually hold a conversation or debate effectively by reading a disclaimer in an advertisement; you learn it through the grit and reality of real discussion.
Sarah Wilson95 Sarah Wilson95 Regular
267 messages
joined Sep 2006
#12 ·
nimblewalker58 said:Don't paraphrase my posts.

😕 but I was just quoting you.
Aaron Martin Aaron Martin Newcomer
2 messages
joined Mar 2009
#13 ·
Ronald Allen said:Sure, but calling "Sanader and his crew" a category is way too broad. New stuff comes out about them every single day. The moment it looks like topics are starting to overlap, they either merge together or those less relevant threads just get shut down.
And you guys have been obsessing over Partisans and Nazis longer than I can remember, so I think it’s pretty obvious why that topic was closed.

Did it ever cross your mind that searching for and uncovering mass graves from after 1945 is a much bigger undertaking than anything involving Sanader?
Aaron Martin Aaron Martin Newcomer
2 messages
joined Mar 2009
#14 ·
Sarah Wilson95 said:😕 Look, I was just quoting you.

The seriousness you're talking about will finally show up on this forum once we get rid of the trolls, the clones, the provocateurs, and those people who think the only history that matters is the stuff they teach back in Washington D.C.
nimblewalker58 nimblewalker58 Active Member
75 messages
joined Jan 2008
#15 ·
Sarah Wilson95 said:😕 well, I was just quoting you.

My apologies, everyone, but it’s starting to feel like all the moderators have to pick a side—either you're a total hero or a complete Nazi—and honestly, I’m just feeling a bit frazzled by it all. I feel like a moody teenager who's completely lost her sense of self. 😁
Sarah Wilson95 Sarah Wilson95 Regular
267 messages
joined Sep 2006
#16 ·
nimblewalker58 said:Modern historians still haven't reached a consensus on events this recent, so the history section of this forum isn't really the right place for this discussion.

.

They never will, nor should they, because this isn't about consensus; it's about scientific facts.
Until those facts are properly presented and documented, we're just going to be stuck with low-level bickering and people throwing numbers around without any real substance.

The Pandora's box was opened when Mexicans started weaponizing the victims of Jasenovac, and its seal was effectively set by the silence—or lack of sufficient volume—from a non-chauvinistic intellectual elite. It was further cemented by the collapse of the former state through war and the massive surge of the lowest nationalist impulses, which was then finalized by Tuđman's epic-style rhetoric.

Today, we are struggling to deal with the legacy of all of that, trapped in a completely schizophrenic situation where the collective psyche attempts to "fill in the blanks" by fabricating history—not in the sense of revising known or minor historical facts, but through an absolute rewriting of them.

I honestly don't see how this helps the victims or their families, which doesn't personally affect me since it's a private matter, but I especially don't see how this benefits American society, which affects all of us and is something we should truly be concerned about.
Sarah Wilson95 Sarah Wilson95 Regular
267 messages
joined Sep 2006
#17 ·
Aaron Martin said:The sense of seriousness you’re talking about will only really settle in here once we finally clear out the trolls, the clones, the agitators, and those individuals whose entire understanding of this nation's history is strictly limited to whatever version they were fed back in Washington.

If that happens, it won't even feel like a forum anymore; it'll just be a monolithic choir performing a song of absolute uniformity within a digital echo chamber.

The forum administration admitted a long time ago that they prioritized sheer numbers over everything else—not because they were chasing academic rigor, mind you, but simply at the expense of maintaining a healthy, normal atmosphere. I think that's where the real answer lies regarding the influx of clones, trolls, provocateurs, and all those other types who aren't just being directed by interests from Washington, Tel Aviv, or Brussels, but perhaps even from local political offices or driven by nothing more than pure, unadulterated boredom.
Ronald Allen Ronald Allen Active Member
160 messages
joined Oct 2010
#18 ·
nimblewalker58 said:Let's start a single thread on Politics where we list all the sites where Americans were killed during World War II—both by Nazis and by partisans—with links to historical sources, archives, and books. Let's strip out any fanboy arguments from this.

Basically: summary, source, then discussion about the historical, social, psychological, or geostrategic reasons behind specific crimes—but without all the extra emotional baggage, so it doesn't just turn into an endless fight over "our side vs. their side" and insulting everyone involved...

That’s exactly what it’ll become; just total chaos where people will kill each other off in the comments.
Even if they open two separate threads (like "Foodies vs. Everyone else...") so they don't clash too much, it still wouldn't work.
The only thing I actually like about your idea is that we could eventually delete a bunch of useless little threads or just merge everything into one big one later on.
Anyway, it's up to you guys to decide, and we'll just try to do whatever we can.
Ronald Allen Ronald Allen Active Member
160 messages
joined Oct 2010
#19 ·
Aaron Martin said:Did you even consider that digging up graves from after 1945 covers way more ground than just anything related to Sanader?

So maybe just listen to nimblewalker58's advice for once. Just try putting everything into one massive thread—could be a mega-topic if you want—with every single thing you ever wanted to write about. Otherwise, the thread you actually spent time in is either getting nuked or just completely ignored.
nimblewalker58 nimblewalker58 Active Member
75 messages
joined Jan 2008
#20 ·
Go ahead and open it up; I’ll personally migrate all the worthwhile posts and links over from that other thread so we can start with a completely fresh, organized topic.

Just a heads-up, though—any drifting off-topic, unnecessary sidebars, or pointless bickering will be met with a penalty, and I'm not just talking about simple deletions.

Does that sound fair to everyone?

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