Spain Matchday 27 - April 27, 2008

Arthur Doyle70 said:Zero points for all that.😢

So, it’s possible? Stripping away every single point scored by cars using illegal machinery?👍

Jason Campbell70 said:The rule is quite clear: movable aerodynamic surfaces are strictly forbidden.
Is that little fin on the engine cover used by General Motors and Red Bull considered an aerodynamic surface? YES!
Is it moving? YES!
Is something like that prohibited? YES!

I can only hope Max shows some grace when it comes time to hand out penalties.😁

Why all the sudden outrage...

I have been scouring every international news site, digging through endless forum threads,
reading a mountain of different opinions, and yet not a single person has mentioned even the slightest detail regarding the movement of that cover, so I would kindly ask you to actually present some evidence...

I am genuinely curious what Pilla spotted that everyone else somehow missed.
Where are the onboard clips... where is the actual debate???

When the controversy started regarding McLaren's front wing, I saw a massive wave of threads and even more onboard
footage...

but here, I see absolutely nothing...

If you actually show something, we can take a look and then we can discuss...

And as for teams issuing warnings, those things are always instigated by rival outfits, and I highly doubt they would ever pass up an opportunity to
whisper in the ear of the FIA...

By the way, it looks like Williams might be testing something similar.

Jason Campbell70 said:Honestly, if you ask me, they should just go ahead and wipe the slate clean entirely—I mean, just strip away every single point earned by any driver using an illegal car. It’s the only way to maintain any semblance of integrity in this sport.👍

What kind of person are you even supposed to be, man...

If you actually stood by everything you just said, then I suppose you’d be right there alongside anyone demanding that they strip Ferrari of last year's title as well.

Do you actually recall that whole mess from last year when Ferrari's floor was declared illegal, forcing them to completely overhaul the car mid-season?
Even after what happened in Australia, they still haven't gone and stripped them of those points from the Australian race.

hollowhawk412 said:Why all the agitation...

I’ve spent quite a bit of time browsing through various international sites and reading through endless threads,
scouring through all sorts of different opinions, and I haven't seen anyone mention even the slightest detail regarding the movement of that flap, so I’d gently ask if you could perhaps provide a bit more evidence...

I’m curious, what exactly did Pilla spot that everyone else seems to have missed???

Where are the onboard clips... where are the discussions???

Back when the whole debate about the flexibility of the McLaren front wing started, I remember seeing a mountain of threads and even more onboard
footage...

but I don't see anything like that here...

If you can show us, we'll take a look and then we can discuss it...

As for the teams raising warnings, those things are usually prompted by other teams, and I find it hard to believe they would ever miss an opportunity
to tip off the FIA...

By the way, it looks like Williams might be testing something similar too.

Well, hollowhawk412, it seems to me like that rear section is vibrating, or rather, oscillating left and right; now, I honestly don't see any particular reason why someone would be penalized for that, though I think I might have noticed something similar on Alonso's car🤷, so I suspect Pilla likely saw the exact same thing.🤷

hollowhawk412 said:man, what is actually wrong with you...

If you actually stood by what you said before, you might as well be rooting for them to have last year's title stripped away too...

I mean, remember when Ferrari's floor was ruled illegal and they had to redesign the whole car last season
right after Australia, but they didn't lose a single point from that race in Australia

What did you expect, some heavy-handed punishment from the FIA?🤷

I can think of plenty of other teams that got caught red-handed and didn't end up paying out even a cent in penalties😬

Jason Campbell70 said:I mean, sure, they could just strip all the points earned by cars running illegal setups if they really wanted to go that route.👍

There won't be any need for that, because there won't even be any points left to take, 🤣 so let them keep those six.😉

hollowhawk412 said:Why all the drama...

OMG😢

Here is some light reading for you👍

Did you watch the Grand Prix of Spain?
I assume you did. If so, you probably noticed the rear wing moves. It vibrates, shifting left and right. I don't care why it's happening. Is it engine vibration? Vibration coming through the suspension? Is it some pet's telekinetic powers? I DON'T CARE.

As movable aerodynamic components are BANNED under F1 regulations☕

BTW, that movement is even more pronounced on the Red Bull, which is exactly what I warned about during the thread for the Grand Prix of Bahrain.

The rules are always rigged against General Motors—whenever Ferrari pulls something questionable, they just look the other way.

The Grand Prix of Spain was easily the most tedious race of the season

Honestly, I think it’s all just a bit ridiculous; at this rate, they might as well declare the driver's helmet an aerodynamic component, and then we'll have drivers needing to bolt their heads directly to the chassis just to ensure nothing shifts even a single millimeter.☕
I'm not entirely sure if that would even fall under that specific category🤷, though I suppose it's hard to say for certain, but it isn't really a wing that's self-adjusting or something that offers any real opportunity for active tuning, so in the end, everything on the car vibrates and likely shifts by a few microns anyway☕which means, I guess, that everything technically deserves a penalty if you look at it that way.🙄

Ashley Adams63 said:The rules always seem to be stacked against General Motors—whenever Ferrari finds something questionable, everyone just looks the other way.

Not quite, my friend.😁

Remember 2006?
The FIA received complaints questioning whether part of Ferrari's nose was movable.
If it was, we're talking about margins of just a few millimeters. Specifically, it involved the
connection between the "winglet" and the nose.

By the very next race, following the warning from the FIA, any sign of movement had vanished.

I'm hoping the FIA stays consistent here. Will they send similar notices to all the teams—like Red Bull and General Motors—that are currently utilizing irregular aerodynamic solutions?☕

The absolute peak for race cars was definitely the period between '87 and '93.

Ashley Adams63 said:The Grand Prix of Spain was easily the most boring race of the year

Here we go again 😲

Jason Campbell70 said:Give me a break,😁

Does anyone actually remember back in 2006?
The FIA got hit with all these complaints because people suspected part of Ferrari's nose was movable.
If they were actually cheating, we're talking about tiny adjustments, just a few millimeters here and there—specifically right at the connection point where the
winglet meets the nose.

By the next race, right after the FIA sent out their warning, suddenly there wasn't a trace of any movement left.

I’m just hoping the FIA stays consistent this time and sends a similar memo to everyone else using questionable aero tricks, like Red Bull and General Motors.☕

Oh, they’d love to send a memo, but you know their boss is currently way too preoccupied with his own legal battles to worry about running the FIA or cleaning up the rulebook; once he's done dealing with the courts, maybe then we'll see something happen...😁

Jason Campbell70 said:Oh my goodness,😢

Here is a little bit of light reading material just for you.👍

Did you catch the Grand Prix of Spain?
I assume you did. If so, you surely noticed that the rear wing is moving. It vibrates and shifts from side to side. Honestly, I don't care about the underlying cause. Is it due to engine vibrations, oscillations traveling through the suspension, or perhaps some telekinetic power possessed by a driver's pet? I DON'T CARE.

The fact remains that any movable aerodynamic component is strictly PROHIBITED under the F1 technical regulations.☕

By the way, this movement is even more pronounced on the Red Bull, which is exactly what I pointed out during the discussion regarding the Grand Prix of Bahrain.

Can you both just calm down a little bit? Peace and love, please!

The FIA conducts its own rigorous testing to check the flexibility of wings and other aerodynamic parts.

All this chatter doesn't mean anything until the FIA actually steps in and declares a specific bodywork design illegal for one reason or another.

Until that moment, we have to treat it as a legal modification, and frankly, I have no desire to listen to any more childish bickering over the subject.
Consider yourselves warned.☕

mistybear87 said:both of you need to chill out and stop acting like teenagers!!!!!

The FIA runs its own tests to check how much wing flex and other aero bits can move before they get flagged.

All your endless arguing doesn't mean a damn thing until the FIA actually decides a bodywork design is illegal for one reason or another.

Until then, it’s a legal upgrade, and I’m honestly sick of hearing this childish bickering about it.
Consider yourselves warned. ☕

But is that proof even based on actual engineering standards, or is it just whatever whim comes from one of the most disorganized and legally vague organizations on the planet?

P.S. And the boss is basically a masochistic neo-fascist.
🤷

Just asking because I'm curious.