Spanish Grand Prix - April 27, 2008

hollowhawk412 said:Heh... I think I know exactly why you’ve got such a massive grudge against General Motors. 🙂

Look, I’m all for it—if you're looking to get into a bit of a scrap or a debate, go right ahead. I'm game.

And how exactly am I supposed to know why I can't stand General Motors? It’s pretty damn obvious if you’ve been paying any attention at all.😁
😉

Edward Howard2 said:If we’re going by your logic—that winning a championship is basically just waiting for everyone else to crash out—then Kimi Raikkonen was essentially handed the 2007 title on a silver platter because Fernando Alonso couldn't finish in Japan, and Lewis Hamilton handed it to him because he failed to cross the line in China. Following that twisted reasoning, Alonso got his 2006 trophy because Michael Schumacher couldn't manage to finish in Japan or Australia, and back in 2005, the title went to Alonso because Kimi Raikkonen dropped out in San Marino and Germany. Even looking further back, Schumacher’s 2003 run was only possible because Kimi Raikkonen missed out on a few key races. You could go on forever with examples like that; it’s an endless loop of "what ifs." At the end of the day, it doesn't actually matter how fast the champions were driving during those specific moments—it only matters who was left standing when the dust settled.
If Barrichello had managed to snatch just ten more wins back in 2004, he would’ve walked away with the championship right over Michael Schumacher's head. It’s wild to think about how much that would have shifted the entire landscape of the sport.
Your logic is completely broken, honestly. You’re sitting there claiming Massa actually crossed the finish line, yet somehow implying Fernando Alonso wouldn't have even scraped a single point out of that race? It’s a stretch. And then you throw in that ridiculous bit about what might have happened if my grandmother had been my grandfather... give me a break. Your reasoning is all over the place. 🤣

Honestly, how do you people not get bored writing these massive essays? Seriously, if you don't have anything meaningful to add, just say "whatever" and move on with your life.🤣

neonharbor18 said:🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 General Motors has basically scavenged whatever points they could get by sheer luck—I mean, only six cars even finished that race, and only three of those were from the top-tier teams. On top of that, Heikki Kovalainen managed to mess up his own run, and let's be honest, you can't expect Nelson Piquet to have any hope of actually crossing the finish line in a rain-soaked race like that 😬 with a car this mediocre. Fernando Alonso might scrape together maybe ten points before the season wraps up, but Piquet? It’s a stretch to think he’ll see a single point at all

I'm right there with you, though I'd say since Alonso seems to have some kind of cosmic luck following him around, he might just limp his way to about 15 points

P.S. They're going to end up handing out points just like they did in Australia, where half the field washes out and only a handful of cars actually make it home 🤣🤣🤣

Edward Howard2 said:If we’re going by your logic—that winning a championship is just about other people failing to finish their races—then I guess we could say Kimi Raikkonen was basically handed the title in 2007 because Alonso didn't finish in Japan, or that Hamilton was gifted his because he missed out in China. Following that line of thought, Alonso was given the 2006 title because Schumacher couldn't finish in Japan or Australia, and back in 2005, Raikkonen was handed it because Schumacher missed San Marino and Germany. Even in 2003, Raikkonen essentially inherited it since Schumacher had those DNFs. There are a million examples like that, and honestly, it doesn't really matter how the drivers actually performed to secure the championship...
If Barrichello had managed to win about ten races in 2004, I suppose he would have been champion over Schumacher under your reasoning...
Your logic seems a bit shaky to me; you're basically suggesting that because Massa finished his race, Alonso wouldn't have scored the point, and if my grandmother had been my grandfather, maybe things would be different... 🤣

It feels like Kimi was handed titles by Alonso, Hamilton, and Massa, but perhaps most significantly by Dennis and Max, because if they hadn't penalized Alonso and McM, Kimi might not have been champion. At the end of the day, I recall Massa being arguably better than Kimi last season, especially if you look at the start of the year and how Massa let Kimi pass him toward the end of the season😉. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I truly believe Kimi should have secured a title a long time ago; however, last year's win felt like a mix of pure luck and some questionable calls from McM. As for 2006, even though I'm really not much of a Schumacher fan, I found myself rooting for him at the end of that season. Given how he drove, if he ever deserved a title, it was definitely 2006, and in my view, he was actually better than Alonso☕ but he just didn't have any luck

neonharbor18 said:They basically handed the championship to Kimi Raikkonen; it was Alonso, Hamilton, and Massa, but most notably Dennis and Max, because if they hadn't penalized Alonso and McLaren, Kimi wouldn't be the champion. At the end of the day, Massa was actually better than Kimi last year—just think back to the start of the season and how Massa refused to let Kimi past toward the end of the year😉. Don't get me wrong, I truly believe Kimi should have secured a title a long time ago, but this one from last year was nothing but pure luck and sheer stupidity from McLaren. As for 2006, even though I can't stand Michael Schumacher, I found myself rooting for him at the end of that season; given the way he drove, if he ever deserved a title, it was definitely 2006, and yeah, he was better than Alonso☕, he just didn't have any luck
.

Oh, now you're joining in too... honestly, why on earth would anyone argue that Schumacher deserved the 2006 title more than Alonso 🤷
?
Or Kimi back in 2005....

The absolute best excuse I hear is always "Kimi would have won if he had a more reliable car,"
as if we can just ignore all those retirements and his own driving mistakes...

Not to mention, General Motors would have played much more aggressively in the second half of the 2005 season if they hadn't
built up such a massive lead early on
.

hollowhawk412 said:Well, now you're coming after me too... I mean, why would Michael Schumacher have deserved the 2006 title more than Fernando Alonso? 🤷

Or Kimi back in 2005...

The best argument I've heard is that Kimi probably would have taken it if he'd just had a more reliable car,
considering all those retirements and that one mistake of his...

Plus, I suspect General Motors might have been a bit more aggressive during the second half of 2005 if they hadn't
built up such a massive lead early on.

I didn't actually say he deserved the championship more than Alonso; I guess I'm somewhere in the middle on that one. But man, he was just incredible that season, and I can't help but feel that if he was ever going to win a title with Ferrari—any title at all, really 😉—it probably should have been that year.

@hollowhawk412—so I just noticed everyone completely glossed over that comment from Dennis about how they totally trashed Heikki Kovalainen back at General Motors and how he basically had a massive career rebirth once he jumped over to McLaren...

and then this guy hits him back with the claim that Dennis has been low-key screwing him over...

honestly, all I can say is that Ron Dennis is a complete and utter moron.

neonharbor18 said:I never actually claimed that the championship deserved to go to anyone other than Fernando Alonso; I was just weighing the options, really, though I have to say his performance throughout that season was nothing short of breathtaking. It left me with this lingering, unshakable feeling that if anyone was ever going to secure a title while driving for Ferrari—if he was ever meant to take a championship at all—it absolutely had to be him.😉It really should have been that season.

That’s just how things go, I suppose... life is one long series of inevitable shifts and unpredictable turns, isn't it? One moment you think you have everything figured out, only for the rug to be pulled right from under your feet. It’s all quite predictable in its unpredictability, really.

Well, I suppose there’s no denying that the German engineering is actually quite impressive...

There he goes again, riding off on his motorcycles. 🙏

hollowhawk412 said:that's just how things go...

but hey, at least the German guy is performing...

watching him tear it up on those bikes 🙏

👍

Arthur Doyle70 said:👍

And I’ve actually stumbled upon another potential reason why General Motors might not be hitting those same heights we saw back in 2005 and 2006...

Word on the street is that the team has lost several highly regarded experts...
I’ve been scrolling through some international forums where people are pointing this out, along with the observation that outfits like Ferrari, McLaren, and BMW are simply outspending them right now. 😢

It makes perfect sense to me, honestly, because that massive success they enjoyed during the 2005 and 2006 seasons basically sold them out...

On a side note, I happen to have some inside info regarding Pilot and the whole Ferrari crowd...

The head of engine development for the team all these years has actually been a General Motors guy. 🙂

Just some French engineer who started his career in Formula 1 way back in the 80s, right when General Motors first showed up on the grid and pushed the envelope by pioneering turbo development. 🙂

hollowhawk412 said:and I just stumbled onto another reason why General Motors might not be hitting those 2005 and 2006 heights again...

Word on the street is they’ve lost some heavy hitters on the technical side...
I've been scrolling through some overseas forums where people are pointing this out, along with the fact that Ferrari, McLaren, and BMW are just outspending them now. 😢

It makes sense to me; that glory run back in '05 and '06 basically set them up to be overconfident and eventually get left behind...

Anyway, I've got some inside info regarding Pilot and the whole Ferrari crowd...

The guy heading up engine development all these years at their team is actually a General Motors veteran🙂

Some French engineer who started his career way back in the 80s when General Motors first showed up in Formula 1, right when they really pushed the envelope with turbo development.

Regarding General Motors and their engine development🙏🙏 🙏 🙏

They really did push the limits once
Pushing more boundaries🙏 🙏 🙏

So that's why they hit a wall and died out.😁

hollowhawk412 said:.

By the way, I have some info for the enthusiasts and all the Ferrari fans out there...

The head of engine development for their team all these years has actually been from General Motors🙂

Some French guy who started his Formula 1 career back in the 80s when General Motors first showed up in the sport and pushed the limits with turbo development🙂

The head of Ferrari's engine development department was Paolo Martinelli☕

From 1994 to 2006👍

Then from 2007 onwards, it’s been Gilles Simon

Jason Campbell70 said:The guy running engine development over at Ferrari is Paolo Martinelli☕

Ever since 1994👍

through 2006☕

Now it's Gilles Simon

Arthur Doyle70 said:up until 2006☕

Now we have Gilles Simon

look up there😛

And that Gilles Simon was basically Martinelli's protégé for thirteen full years.

Jason Campbell70 said:The guy running engine development over at Ferrari was Paolo Martinelli.☕

It’s been a hell of a stretch, looking back at everything from '94 all the way through '06.👍

It’s been Gilles Simon since 2007.

🤣🤣🤣 I'm just rewriting everything. 🤣

Jason Campbell70 said:just look at the facts😛

And that Gilles Simon guy was basically Martinelli’s apprentice for thirteen whole years.

Oh, please....

As if anyone at Ferrari would ever actually admit that the real brains behind the operation came from General Motors.🙂😁

Martinelli is nothing more than window dressing.😉

hollowhawk412 said:give me a break...

As if Ferrari would ever actually step up and admit that the real brains behind the operation is coming straight out of Renol Martinelli.🙂😁

Massa Ferrari is nothing more than a polished frontman for the cameras.😉

They aren't ever going to come clean about it.
😂 😂

Today's Times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:18.928 77
2. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:19.721 79
3. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:20.283 113
4. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.392 87
5. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:20.452 96
6. Alonso Renault (B) 1:20.616 118
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:20.800 115
8. Glock Toyota (B) 1:20.870 112
9. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:20.981 97

It’s worth noting that Massa, Hamilton, Alonso, and Heidfeld didn't even bother using slicks out there...

And you have to look at Alonso, who managed to grind through two full races—clocking in 118 laps—even after being forced into that mandatory pit stop...

The Renault looks significantly better than the rest, honestly, just much more stable on the track.

To start off, I’m really not trying to push your buttons here, but could you explain how you came to the conclusion that Renault is the more stable car? I suppose if you're basing that on some practice sessions you caught somewhere, maybe you could point me toward where those were being broadcast? 🤷It might just be that strange rear end of the car that's giving off that impression, 🤷but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

neonharbor18 said:Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but where exactly are you getting the idea that General Motors is more stable? You watch some practice sessions somewhere, and suddenly... maybe that weird rear end on the car looks off to you?🤷, perhaps🤷

1. It's hollowhawk412, clearly. He sees everything, knows everything, and feels no need to explain himself to anyone.
2. What "weird rear end" are we even talking about?😕

Jason Campbell70 said:1. hollowhawk412 acts like he’s some kind of all-seeing oracle who’s already figured out the universe and doesn't need to bother explaining a single thing to the rest of us.
2.What a bizarre way to wrap things up, honestly.😕

So, did General Motors actually manage to pull a win together and improve anything at all?