Poor MacGregor caught in the cult-like attributes

I’ve been doing some digging online regarding Multi-level marketing and Herbalife, and honestly, it looks like Herbalife is a straight-up cult. 😲
The Herbalife cult

I actually feel bad for MacGregor; the guy is clearly just a victim of brainwashing by some really seasoned manipulators.
I suppose it’s easy enough for them to find targets in America, given how many people are feeling disillusioned or struggling with unemployment. 😢

What do you guys actually know about these MLM cults—specifically Herbalife—and the whole psychology behind cults and their followers?

Herbalife
This outfit relies on a Multi-level marketing setup to move their nutrition and beauty lines. I guess you could say they've picked up a reputation for having Cult-like attributes, all while trying to mask it as a standard business model. To actually make any money or climb the ladder, followers can't just sell products; they have to drag friends and family into the fold, who then recruit even more people to build this massive "distribution network." Critics also point to a Paramilitary-like structure regarding how the company handles internal control. Personally, I think Herbalife just blames all this bad press on market competition and their own massive growth.

Even though I've already shared my thoughts on Herbalife and similar ventures, I'll make one more point:

Alternative medicine and its practitioners have their place alongside modern medicine... provided they don't deceive people or peddle false promises.

It’s easy for someone to claim their tea helped cure prostate cancer when, in reality, modern medicine had already dealt with it through surgery and radiation.

Like I’ve said many times before, the body simply heals itself; drinking some herbal tea or taking glucosamine isn't going to change that outcome.

You should be seeing a doctor regularly rather than just popping random vitamins,
because you might not even need them, and you can actually poison yourself with excessive doses.

A guy using a Hummer once even sent me a PM asking how he could "cure" me and my wife... despite having none of the knowledge I possess.

He was foolish enough to suggest he could fix my wife's B12 deficiency, not realizing she has a medical condition that prevents her body from absorbing B12 from food, requiring injections every three months for the rest of her life.

That’s just a small glimpse into the world of charlatans and scammers... unfortunately, people all over the country fall for it and pay a premium for absolutely nothing.

You rarely need vitamin supplements if your diet is actually decent.

Skeptic

👋 👋

Sandra Hayes88 said:How much do you guys actually know about these Multi-level marketing cults—specifically Herbalife—and the whole psychological setup involving the cult mentality and how followers behave?

It seems to me that you all are working overtime every single day to strengthen this little "anti-progress" cult of yours right here... 😉 😁

Jamie Clark74 said:Even this guy using a Hummer sent me a DM claiming he could "cure" both my wife and me... meanwhile, he doesn't have half the medical insight I do.

The guy was actually naive enough to suggest he could fix my wife's B12 deficiency through supplements... when he clearly hasn't realized she has a legitimate medical condition where her body simply can't absorb B12 from food. She has to rely on B12 injections every three months for the rest of her life.

It’s just a small glimpse into the world of charlatans and scammers... but unfortunately, people all over the country fall for it and pay a premium for absolutely nothing.

In reality, you rarely even need vitamins if you're eating a proper diet.

Skeptic

- So, are you only a skeptic now because nothing has worked for you yet? You mentioned previously that you've tried everything under the sun, which implies you weren't much of a skeptic before this, right?

- There’s likely a physiological reason why your wife’s body can’t absorb B12 orally (even if it works via injection 😕). Sometimes the body requires vitamins in their ideal, natural ratios; taking random vitamins here and there without balance often results in zero effect...
Just look at people dealing with iron deficiencies—how many of them see absolutely no improvement in their bloodwork despite taking regular iron supplements? ..
I personally know about a dozen people who could tell you the same story; they had identical issues, but once they started taking ALL the micronutrients every single day (in those perfectly balanced proportions) for 90 days, their bloodwork came back perfect. Just a reminder—blood cells regenerate roughly every 90 days... 🙂

- "You rarely even need vitamins if you're eating a proper diet."
That might have held water twenty years ago, but today, vitamins and minerals are essential dietary supplements—a fact the World Health Organization has been stating clearly since early 2004.
It's unfortunate you're living under that misconception.
Natural vitamins (derived from plants) and synthetic ones (manufactured in labs) function very differently, and it's been proven that cellular absorption is a completely different process for each.

- Using the term "cure" here is fundamentally wrong. No one can "cure" you with herbal products... what happens is that your body can finally start functioning correctly and arrange its own "building blocks" the way it was designed to, provided you give it food that is perfect—containing all necessary macro and micronutrients. You already noted that the body is the most perfect machine imaginable... I'll let you draw your own conclusion there. 😎

- To call someone stupid, a fraud, or a charlatan, one would actually need to know them personally, and for that reason, I won't be making such claims about anyone.. 😁

ps: Don't take this too personally, but you've become a slave to your own "knowledge." Keep researching and learning just like you always have, just perhaps slightly shift the direction of that research. 👋

@urbantinker11—you’d basically try to turn medicine into a religion... and let me tell you, that just doesn't fly.

Regarding B12 absorption—sure, maybe you can't isolate it from food alone, but once it hits the bloodstream via injection, the body can actually make use of it...

To call someone an idiot, a fraud, or a charlatan, you'd realistically need to know them personally.

Nah, you don't need a personal introduction for that... 😉

Kenneth Alvarez37 said:When you're talking about B12 absorption, sure, maybe you can't isolate it from whole foods, but once it hits the bloodstream via injection, the body can actually put it to work...

Exactly, and it’s the same logic with an IV drip; when someone’s system is too compromised to process nutrients normally, they turn to an infusion as a sort of shortcut.

Think about liquid FOOD—you know, the kind packed with all the micros and macros—traveling through the digestive tract. It shares those same bio-assimilative properties, making it easier for the body to digest and extract what it needs without the usual heavy lifting required by solid meals, if you catch my drift.

So, "cellular nutrition" is essentially just a streamlined method, a more efficient way for the body to soak up necessary nutrients while providing the peace of mind that we’re actually getting everything we need.
Now, you could point to the top experts and scientists in this field as a guarantee of quality—meaning they hit those ideal ratios—but honestly, even their stamp of approval wouldn't mean much to me if I didn't already know how this works in practice. Besides, since you haven't personally experienced what I have, there’s really no point in us debating it in such a limited fashion. 😉

Kenneth Alvarez37 said:@urbantinker11/">@@urbantinker11, you’d basically turn medicine into a religion if you had the chance... and honestly, that just doesn't work.

I’d argue the exact opposite—it’s the people who turn medicine into a religion, placing their faith in doctors even more blindly than they do in God. 🙂 😁

At the end of the day, you really ought to trust your own gut and your own logic, but that’s where most people stumble; it’s much easier to just follow someone else's lead than it is to actually sit down and think for yourself. 😉 😁

urbantinker11 said:Actually, I’d argue the opposite—people have turned medicine into a religion. They tend to put more faith in doctors than in God. 🙂 😁

The real trick is trusting your own logic. But that’s the catch, isn't it? It’s always easier to follow someone else than to actually sit down and think for yourself. 😉 😁

Eighty years ago, life expectancy was only around 55 to 65. Natural remedies weren't cutting it back then. We didn't see real progress until we had vaccines, tetanus shots, and penicillin. Before that, there wasn't much you could do. Using tuberculosis as an example—natural care alone couldn't solve it, and that's just one case among hundreds of other diseases.

To give you some context on my background, I completed 18 months
of medical school coursework. I even had to pass Anatomy and Biology just to get through the door.
I also worked professionally as a workers' rights representative and an inspector for asbestos removal.
I still attend lectures occasionally when professors invite me because they know I’m genuinely interested.

Because of that, I have a very solid handle on my own health and nutrition.

In fact, I diagnosed my wife myself. She isn't big on doctor visits and isn't much of a talker, but her blood work confirmed what I suspected.

You wouldn't have any clue about her actual condition based on how you write;

It’s Pernicious anemia. The only treatment for it is lifelong B12
injections.

If you were an idiot, you'd try treating it with basic vitamins. And as for this "cellular nutrition" nonsense being pushed on this Forum—you don't belong here.

🙄 🙄

Jamie Clark74 said:You clearly haven't the slightest clue what her fitness level is actually like, otherwise you wouldn't be sitting there typing out this nonsense;

When it comes to pernicious anemia, there really isn't any other way around it—you’re looking at lifelong B12 supplementation. There isn't some magic pill or a one-time cure waiting around the corner; once your body loses the ability to absorb that vitamin properly, you basically become best friends with B12 injections or high-dose oral supplements for the rest of your days. It’s just how the biology works.
Regular injections. Just when you thought life couldn't get any more repetitive, you’ve got to deal with the whole routine of scheduled shots. It’s one of those things that just becomes part of the background noise of existence, isn't it? Like a recurring subscription you never actually signed up for, only instead of a streaming service, it's medical maintenance.

And you’d actually want this guy—this total amateur who clearly doesn't know his head from his elbows—trying to prescribe Vitamin B? Honestly, just get him off this Forum already. He has absolutely no business being here.

So, you brought up those initial B12 injections... I mean, look, we all know B12 is just a vitamin, but what exactly are you trying to get at here? What's the end goal?
Just as a quick heads-up for everyone here—let’s not get ahead of ourselves: vitamins aren't exactly medications. 😉 )

Calling someone a "thug" just because they happen to share your opinion is really just a reflection of your own culture. 😁

Jamie Clark74 said:Think about this: eighty years ago, the average life expectancy was hovering somewhere between 55 and 65. Back then, "natural remedies" weren't exactly doing much heavy lifting when it came to keeping people around. Before we had vaccines, or things like penicillin and treatments for tetanus, medical science was essentially hitting a brick wall. You can look at how little "natural care" could actually do for someone battling tuberculosis as a prime example, but that’s just one case. We’re talking about hundreds of other diseases that simply couldn't be touched until modern medicine stepped in.

Nowadays, we aren't really seeing people dropping like flies from infectious diseases the way they used to; most of those battles have largely been won, provided you look at what’s actually taking us out these days. The way we look at illness today feels like we’re staring through a cracked lens. It isn't just about catching a bug or dealing with a seasonal flu anymore; it feels like our entire modern lifestyle is essentially a slow-motion collision with our own biology. We live in an era where we’ve mastered the art of being sedentary while simultaneously overstimulating our nervous systems with constant digital noise, and then we act surprised when our bodies start sending out distress signals. It’s a bit like trying to run a high-performance engine on low-grade fuel while keeping the car parked in a garage with no ventilation. You can't expect the machine to hold up forever. We see this massive surge in metabolic issues and chronic inflammation, things that aren't just "bad luck" but are often the direct result of how we eat, how we move—or don't move—and how we manage stress. It’s almost as if we’ve built a civilization that is fundamentally at odds with the very organisms we inhabit. There’s also this strange, modern paradox regarding how we treat these ailments. On one hand, you have the heavy hitters of big pharma and mainstream medicine, which are incredible at crisis management but sometimes feel like they're just putting a Band-Aid on a sinking ship. Then, on the other side, you have the explosion of alternative medicine enthusiasts who promise a miracle cure in a bottle, often peddling products through multi-level marketing schemes that feel more like a pyramid than a wellness plan. Navigating the middle ground is where it gets tricky. We’re caught between institutionalized medicine that can feel cold and impersonal, and these trendy, cult-like wellness movements that lean heavily on anecdotal evidence rather than hard science. Finding actual balance—real, sustainable health—feels less like following a single prescription and more like trying to navigate a minefield of misinformation and conflicting advice. It’s a lot to parse through when you're just trying to feel human again. And honestly... what exactly is their motivation for showing up in the first place?

Jamie Clark74 said:So, just to give you a little context regarding my own background—I’ve actually put in about 18 months of solid experience on this.
Back when I was applying for medical school, they didn't just hand you a white coat because you showed up; you actually had to prove you knew your stuff by passing grueling exams in anatomy and biology first.
Back in my working days, I actually went through formal training as an officer for worker injury and rights, along with serving as a supervisor for asbestos abatement projects.
I still find myself showing up whenever a few of my professors reach out to invite me to guest lectures they know I’ll actually care about.

It looks like you all have a much better handle on this than I did. Dr. David Heber (I suppose you’re looking for a bit of background, or perhaps a rundown of who I am and what I stand for. It’s not quite a formal autobiography—I don't have a memoir sitting on a shelf somewhere waiting for a publisher—but if you want the long version, I can certainly give you the highlights. I tend to view things through a rather skeptical lens, preferring to look past the glossy marketing and get down to the actual mechanics of how these massive organizations operate. I’ve always had a bit of a fascination with how certain groups manage to maintain such tight, almost paramilitary-like structures while claiming to be just about wellness or community. It’s a curious thing to watch, really. I like to dig into the details, pull at the loose threads, and see if the whole sweater unravels. I'm not one for short, snappy soundbites. If we're going to talk about something, let's actually talk about it. Whether it's dissecting the way multi-level marketing schemes try to reinvent themselves or debating the nuances of public health guidelines from the World Health Organization, I prefer to take my time. I like to lay out the facts, provide a few analogies to make sense of the chaos, and let the logic speak for itself. You won't find much hype here—just a steady, somewhat dry attempt to make sense of the world as it actually is, rather than how some corporate press release wants you to believe it is.Well, I'll be damned. Huge congratulations to you! 😁

Jamie Clark74 said:Look, I know my way around my own health and nutrition better than most.

I see it! 😎

Jamie Clark74 said:An open letter to the moderators!

Count me in on the protest!

Jamie Clark74 said:I actually took a break from the health section for a while to avoid reading all the nonsense some self-proclaimed experts try to peddle here.

I’ve been trying to do the same, but I just can't seem to stay away.

Jamie Clark74 said:Maybe we should just open a separate sub-forum for these types of people and their followers—either under Health or just its own thing entirely. It would stop people who are just trying to force their propaganda about "cures" using stuff that isn't even medically recognized from being banned in the Health section.

When we say "medications," we mean actual drugs used to treat illnesses. Since this sub-forum is dedicated to "Health," I’d suggest creating a new section called "Illnesses." You see, health is a much broader concept than just dealing with diseases; true health is the absence of disease, and frankly, it's even more than that.🙂

Jamie Clark74 said:On top of everything else, for any drugs to be released for production, they have to pass nutritional oversight and get official approval.

Vitamins and various byproducts don't require that kind of approval, so they aren't considered medical products... they're supplements.

It's not the pharmaceutical companies that regulate drugs; it's the Department of Health (or at least, that's how it's supposed to work).😉

Drugs aren't food, but nutrition can certainly be a deciding factor when it comes to ultimate wellness and recovery.

Vitamins derived from plants shouldn't even be categorized as "medications"—they simply aren't. Any reputable nutritional company producing them operates under specific approvals from top-tier national institutions, backed by actual science rather than just folk herbalism or alternative medicine.🙂

Jamie Clark74 said:They were outright deceiving people by putting glucosamine and chelates in supplements... it wasn't shark cartilage they were using, it was cow bone, and a well-known company ended up getting shut down for it.

Exactly!👍
The fewer scammers and frauds we have around, the better. It leaves room for actual quality to shine after twenty-five years.😁

Jamie Clark74 said:I’ve actually been meaning to write up my thoughts on Alternative medicine for quite some time now...
but life keeps getting in the way, forcing me to put other projects on the back burner just so I can finally sit down and get this thread started![/B]

Hopefully, your new topic will actually get more eyes on it than all these previous ones have.

👍 😉

ps: Jamie Clark74, don't go getting worked up; it really isn't good for your heart 😢 (especially considering you're in a high-risk category given your current build)

urbantinker11 said:ps: Hey Jamie Clark74, take it easy—don't let this get your blood pressure up. It’s probably not great for your heart, especially given your current build. 😢

So, when are you actually gonna pitch Herbalife and drop a price point that might actually save it? And seriously—do you really have to chug it for an entire month straight just to see any results?

urbantinker11 said:PS: Jamie Clark74, try not to get worked up. It isn't good for your heart (especially considering your health profile).

a/ First off, my blood pressure is under control; I've maintained a steady 130/75 for years now.

b/ My cholesterol level is 4.2.

c/ My kidneys, liver, circulation, and heart are all in great shape.

d/ I have some issues from smoking/atheroma, but it’s managed. I quit smoking when I was 45.

e/ Sleep apnea—I use a CPAP machine. Just a side note: breathing issues aren't strictly tied to weight.

f/ Asbestosis... not many people know much about it, and I've actually written a whole thread on it.

g/ I have other issues, too, but they're all under control.

The rest is covered in another thread... and honestly, I take about 25 pills a day if you don't count my pain meds, so we're looking at over 30 tablets daily.

ASBESTOSIS

🙂 😉 😎

Jamie Clark74 said:and that’s left over on another thread... if you don't count what I take for pain, I'm at about 25 tablets, so we're looking at 30+ pills a day

Asbestosis

🙂 😉 😎

I went through your thread regarding Asbestosis, and I think I get where you're coming from.
Honestly, your drive to warn others about the fallout from asbestos exposure is something I really respect.

If I’ve got this right, you were working around asbestos back in the day—pre-'87—while smoking and carrying an extra 20 pounds?
Then it hit you, the reality of the situation set in, and you were faced with a choice: quit the cigarettes and drop the weight, or face the music. You did the work, but you're still left dealing with the consequences, aren't you?

Twenty years is a lifetime. Back then, the connection between nutrition and systemic health wasn't nearly as obvious as it is now. The doctors graduating in that era didn't have a clue about it, and frankly, some of them still don't today. 😢

The body has this incredible capacity to repair itself if we actually give it the tools to do so—if we provide the raw materials it needs. Unfortunately, our bodies aren't exactly great communicators; they don't send us a manual listing exactly what's missing. That's why scientists have to spend decades digging through data just to try and decode the signals our bodies are sending, hoping to catch up before things go south.

Did you know that the cells in your soft organs can essentially regenerate entirely once a year?
Did you know your bone cells renew every seven years, meaning you basically have a whole new skeleton every seven years?
And did you know your skin regenerates roughly every seven months? It’s made of seven layers, and each individual layer cycles out every 28 days.

It’s all about potential.!!!
These are opportunities we can choose to take, or we can just let them pass us by.
We can leverage them if we actually know how to navigate this polluted world to find something truly pure and organic—something genuinely healthy, free of synthetic junk, and actually effective. 🙂

I managed to find that. It’s almost silly; when someone strikes gold, they don't exactly shout it from the rooftops because people tend to stop believing them. It takes time for things that seem absurd or impossible to be accepted as common sense, or as something that has become absolutely essential.

Whether you'll ever see it that way, I honestly don't know. I have plenty of time, and many people do too, but do *you*? ... You don't have to take my word for it. You’re well-read, you know English, so do your own deep dive into everything you find. Just put in the effort, because you have very good reasons to do so, and time isn't exactly on your side.

Some people wonder why I bother trying here.
Look, I know I can't fix the whole world, but if I can change—or even save—just one life, then the world has changed for that person. If you haven't experienced that, it's hard to wrap your head around.

Even if you think I'm being pushy, foolish, or some kind of salesman, please understand that I have zero intention of selling you anything. I truly just want the best for you as you fight through these illnesses and the issues that are weighing you down.

👋

urbantinker11 said:>
- There’s likely a reason why your wife’s body can't absorb Vitamin B12 (even though it might through injections 😕); sometimes the body simply requires vitamins in their ideal, natural ratios, whereas just randomly popping one supplement after another achieves absolutely nothing...

"There’s likely a reason why..."

Well, I think we've all just been blessed by our dear urbantinker11's expert medical diagnosis...

Mac, you're finished... from now on, you're just little urbantinker11.

- "You very rarely need vitamins if you eat properly"
That might have held water twenty years ago, but today, vitamins and minerals are ESSENTIAL dietary supplements—a fact that the World Health Organization has been stating clearly since January 1st, 2004.
It's truly a shame you're living in such a delusion.

GIVE US A LINK TO THAT PAGE.
Or just shut up with the misinformation.

I want a direct link to the actual WHO website, specifically to the page containing that exact recommendation.
Post proof or retract.

- To call someone stupid, a fraud, or a charlatan, one would actually need to know them personally, and for that reason, I won't make such claims about anyone.. 😁

No, you just need to read what's written or listen to what's being said.

Get real; some people here possess far more knowledge than you do.

ps: Don't take this personally, but you are a slave to your own "knowledge"; keep researching and learning just as you have been, just perhaps shift the direction of that research a little. 👋

Don't take this personally, but you're a prisoner of your own "knowledge." Maybe try enrolling in some actual schools and finish something.
Find a better direction for your education.

urbantinker11 said:Did you know that cells in soft organs can fully regenerate once a year?
Did you know bone cells renew every 7 years, meaning we basically get a whole new skeleton every 7 years?
Did you know skin regenerates about every 7 months? It’s made of seven layers, and each layer replaces itself every 28 days.
👋

Your medical expertise is basically straight out of a Sunday morning trivia column in a local newspaper.🙂

@urbantinker11/">@@urbantinker11
If I have this right, you worked with asbestos back in the day (before '87), you were a smoker, and you were carrying an extra 20 pounds?
Did you realize then what was happening—that it was a "this or that" situation where you had to quit smoking and lose the weight, yet you still ended up stuck with these health issues regardless?

========
Yes, I worked with asbestos, just like many others who passed away in their mid-50s or later. And no, I wasn't 20 pounds overweight back then; I actually gained weight after I quit smoking, then lost it later. As for asbestosis, you don't even know you have it until 20 or 30 years after exposure. In my case, I didn't find out until 1997 during a spinal checkup.
Bottom line is, you don't really have a clue... about anything regarding illnesses outside of your "cellular nutrition." What do you actually know about metabolism or other vital functions? Or the consequences of steroids and excessive pill consumption?
I'm done talking with you about this.
============

And please, don't disrespect doctors. It's easy to treat minor issues, but unfortunately, I'm a complicated case with a lot of problems. I'm just lucky there are specialists out there doing their best to help.
The difference is, I found out what was making me sick, whereas in your case, people end up dying because they find out too late.
===========

Ladies and gentlemen of the Forum (or should I say "ignorant masses," as the Multi-level marketing crowd likes to call us), MacGregor—aka the Hummer—has just opened yet another account: Punoser 🙂

So, I guess we’re stuck here reading more "expert" lectures on "cellular nutrition" and how vital these Herbalife powder concoctions are for achieving eternal health, longevity, and spiritual beauty 😈

I just wish I knew when or how this whole thing finally shuts down... 🙂

nimbleskipper13 said:Filler 🙂

😂