Montag of Heck by Kurt Cobain

It’s all about taste. I agree with everything the bullfighter wrote. Sure, nirvana was 🤣

Dropping lists and citing critics is just like reading IMDb reviews for movies. It’s all subjective; anyone can talk trash about a band if they want. Just like people bash the Beatles or the Stones. "Oh, they influenced this and that." I don't care about their influence if the music sucks to me. I'm not looking at historical impact; I'm looking at whether I actually like it.

That Rolling Stone list 🤣—every music lover has laughed at it. Nirvana is nothing special, and Kurt was just a walking struggle, then and now. I have zero sympathy for junkies. What, am I supposed to form an emotional bond with some addict and his lyrics and whatever messages he was trying to send? 🤣

William Scott65 said:@placidtrucker4, I’m not going to waste my breath arguing because you clearly just don't get music. I'll say this one last time: the way you trash Nirvana is the same way you’d trash any legendary band. Since you fail to grasp Nirvana's massive impact, it’s pretty much impossible to expect you to understand the significance of groups like the Sex Pistols or the Ramones. I’d love to be blunt and give you the label your posts deserve, but I’d probably end up getting banned, so...

you clearly don't know anything about music, especially since your avatar features a band that's musically superior and way more relevant than Nirvana. Putting the Sex Pistols and the Ramones in the same conversation is practically blasphemy; the Pistols are more like Nirvana—overhyped without much substance—whereas the actual geniuses barely saw 2% of the profits from their albums or tours. Cobain was always 'borrowing' from other people's sounds and he never even tried to hide it; he was an entertainer, sure, but maybe not a true genius.

briskbison55 said:you clearly don't know anything about music, especially since your avatar features a band that's musically superior and way more relevant than Nirvana. Putting the Sex Pistols and the Ramones in the same conversation is practically blasphemy; the Pistols are more like Nirvana—overhyped without much substance—whereas the actual geniuses barely saw 2% of the profits from their albums or tours. Cobain was always 'borrowing' from other people's sounds and he never even tried to hide it; he was an entertainer, sure, but maybe not a true genius.

The whole idea that you can take something and make it even better than the original... isn't that kind of genius? Just look at "Man Who Sold the World."

Gerald Ortiz2 said:The whole idea that you can take something and make it even better than the original... isn't that kind of genius? Just look at "Man Who Sold the World."

Nirvana basically took these incredible tracks and reshaped them into what we now call grunge. I think my previous post got wiped out where I mentioned how they pulled from Killing Joke in the eighties for "Come As You Are"—which, honestly, feels like a pretty mediocre teenage track to me. And as for calling Bowie's original version worse than Kurt Cobain's cover? I don't even know how to respond to that. It just doesn't make sense.

Buzz said everything about the documentary, and I guess he's right. I don't doubt it'll get decent views. I watched it myself—nothing groundbreaking, really. Maybe a little fun here and there, but that's about it.

briskbison55 said:Nirvana basically took these incredible tracks and reshaped them into what we now call grunge. I think my previous post got wiped out where I mentioned how they pulled from Killing Joke in the eighties for "Come As You Are"—which, honestly, feels like a pretty mediocre teenage track to me. And as for calling Bowie's original version worse than Kurt Cobain's cover? I don't even know how to respond to that. It just doesn't make sense.

Buzz said everything about the documentary, and I guess he's right. I don't doubt it'll get decent views. I watched it myself—nothing groundbreaking, really. Maybe a little fun here and there, but that's about it.

The movie is fine if you're a die-hard fan... it's got plenty of holes, but it works...

Just another documentary about the most overrated, exhausting musician out there 🙏

I mean, seriously, how many of these are there now?

vivideagle7 said:Just another documentary about the most overrated, exhausting musician out there 🙏

I mean, seriously, how many of these are there now?

Man... there have been much worse than him.

Nirvana was—and basically still is—just a band for kids going through a depressive phase. I listened to them constantly back in high school, but honestly, those lyrics just don't hit the same way anymore. It’s not even that the music is bad, per se—it’s just the kind of stuff that resonates during one very specific window of your life. Makes me wonder what would have happened if Kurt Cobain had actually lived... maybe his sound would have evolved along with him, instead of feeling a bit infantile to anyone who's long since moved past their teenage years.

goldendrifter19 said:Nirvana was—and basically still is—just a band for kids going through a depressive phase. I listened to them constantly back in high school, but honestly, those lyrics just don't hit the same way anymore. It’s not even that the music is bad, per se—it’s just the kind of stuff that resonates during one very specific window of your life. Makes me wonder what would have happened if Kurt Cobain had actually lived... maybe his sound would have evolved along with him, instead of feeling a bit infantile to anyone who's long since moved past their teenage years.

For kids, it's all about the beat. Hardly anyone actually listens to the lyrics, so...

Most people I know don't even realize what a song is actually about; they just hear it and say, "That's a great track," or memorize the music video. It's like why country music is so massive in the South... it's just that kind of mindset.

bluenomad2 said:It’s all about taste. I agree with everything the bullfighter wrote. Sure, nirvana was 🤣

Dropping lists and citing critics is just like reading IMDb reviews for movies. It’s all subjective; anyone can talk trash about a band if they want. Just like people bash the Beatles or the Stones. "Oh, they influenced this and that." I don't care about their influence if the music sucks to me. I'm not looking at historical impact; I'm looking at whether I actually like it.

That Rolling Stone list 🤣—every music lover has laughed at it. Nirvana is nothing special, and Kurt was just a walking struggle, then and now. I have zero sympathy for junkies. What, am I supposed to form an emotional bond with some addict and his lyrics and whatever messages he was trying to send? 🤣

Man, I wasn't even going to jump into this thread, but those pseudo-intellectual posts at the beginning (before yours) really rubbed me the wrong way. You cut right through the nonsense—props to you.

As for the documentary, I saw it a while back and hated it. I'm a huge movie buff, but this thing was bottom-tier. Now, I'm not a Nirvana fan—my musical taste is pretty niche—but that has nothing to do with the quality of the film. As a piece of filmmaking, it's worthless. Boring, dragged out, irritating, and just a lost, aimless wandering through Kurt's life. Junkie guy, junkie woman (and a prostitute), and a daughter who seems mentally and emotionally stunted based on her drawings. Given the environment she grew up in, it's a miracle she turned out okay.

briskbison55 said:you clearly don't know anything about music, especially since your avatar features a band that's musically superior and way more relevant than Nirvana. Putting the Sex Pistols and the Ramones in the same conversation is practically blasphemy; the Pistols are more like Nirvana—overhyped without much substance—whereas the actual geniuses barely saw 2% of the profits from their albums or tours. Cobain was always 'borrowing' from other people's sounds and he never even tried to hide it; he was an entertainer, sure, but maybe not a true genius.

Look, I’m going to say something that might offend some people on this thread. That isn't my intention, though—I just want to lay things out clearly because it’s obviously necessary to do so.

I’m a big fan of L7. To be honest, I actually prefer them over Nirvana, along with at least a hundred other bands. When it comes to specific albums, I enjoy Hungry for Stink, Bricks are heavy, and Smell The Magic much more than Nevermind. Even if we narrow the scope strictly to grunge, I still find Mudhoney, Alice in Chains, and L7 to be better than Nirvana. (And while those last few aren't from Seattle, they usually get lumped into the grunge category anyway.) At the end of the day, these are just my personal tastes, so there's no need to debate it.

There’s a certain level of general culture that exists independently of our personal tastes. I’ve mentioned before that I’m not exactly a fan of Pink Floyd. It’s not that I hate them; their music just never really clicked with me. You won't find them on my personal top 100, 200, or even 500 lists. Instead, you might find someone like Agnostic Front. However, if I couldn't grasp why Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall holds more weight in music history than any AF album, it would mean I haven't truly grown as a listener. It’s like comparing a sophisticated thinker to a monkey on a branch.

It’s a lot like *Nevermind*. You’re totally entitled to think it’s garbage, and you’re just as entitled to say it’s overrated. But if you don't grasp exactly why *Nevermind* caused such a massive explosion—as opposed to any of the other albums you might prefer—then you haven't really grown as a listener. I already mentioned which bands I actually prefer over Nirvana, even though they share similar genres. In my personal rankings, their albums will always sit above *Nevermind*. At the same time, I completely get why *Nevermind* resonated so deeply and why it consistently ranks higher than my personal favorites on most mainstream lists. Even though, back when I was a high school kid, Nirvana's massive success absolutely drove me crazy.

I think you might have missed my point regarding the Ramones and the Sex Pistols. That guy on the previous page was acting like such an elitist about what "real art" is—he even went as far as comparing things to pyramids just to take shots at Nirvana. He could easily pull that same logic on the Ramones or the Sex Pistols, too (honestly, he could do it to any band ever). If we follow his line of reasoning, it’s hard to imagine anyone reaching some sort of artistic peak listening to the Ramones sing about sniffing glue or the Sex Pistols singing about abortion, right?😁

If you don't consider *Never Mind the Bollocks* to be the definitive Sex Pistols record, then I honestly don't think we have anything left to discuss on this topic. It would be a waste of time to start listing all the musicians who only picked up an instrument after hearing or seeing the Pistols perform. The impact they had—not just on specific genres like the evolution of the alternative scene, but also in pushing the boundaries of censorship and inspiring the individuals who went on to form today's legendary bands—is massive. To do all that with just one single album is incredible. Of course, I don't expect you to see it my way. If you aren't getting it now, you probably never will. Nothing personal.🙂

http://musicbloodline.info/artist/MN0000418740/spotify

Take a look at those bands on the right. Any sane person would be genuinely embarrassed if they were in your shoes.

Look, Nirvana is a good band, I get it. But if we’re actually looking at the lineup coming out of Seattle back then, they definitely fall short in terms of pure quality compared to Soundgarden, and honestly, even Alice in Chains. To me, Soundgarden was hands down the heaviest, most powerhouse rock band of that era; Pearl Jam and Nirvana were just sort of hovering somewhere in their shadow. As for this documentary? It’s nothing but pure propaganda for Courtney Love. The whole thing just spends its entire runtime glazing her, it's honestly nauseating. She was just a typical addict and a street walker—and look, she wasn't even cheating on Kurt Cobain, but the guy took his own life because of everything else. The second I realized Dave Grohl wasn't featured in this, I knew exactly what I was getting into, because everyone knows where he stands on Courtney Love. This whole thing is just pathetic.

Grace Cruz4 said:Look, Nirvana is a good band, I get it. But if we’re actually looking at the lineup coming out of Seattle back then, they definitely fall short in terms of pure quality compared to Soundgarden, and honestly, even Alice in Chains. To me, Soundgarden was hands down the heaviest, most powerhouse rock band of that era; Pearl Jam and Nirvana were just sort of hovering somewhere in their shadow. As for this documentary? It’s nothing but pure propaganda for Courtney Love. The whole thing just spends its entire runtime glazing her, it's honestly nauseating. She was just a typical addict and a street walker—and look, she wasn't even cheating on Kurt Cobain, but the guy took his own life because of everything else. The second I realized Dave Grohl wasn't featured in this, I knew exactly what I was getting into, because everyone knows where he stands on Courtney Love. This whole thing is just pathetic.

She definitely cheated on him... she was a beast. That's why he did it.

Honestly, the first thing that hits you after watching this is just how much you miss seeing Dave Grohl, except maybe in some old archival clips. I mean, when we all know he was right there for the band's biggest milestones, you really expect him to be a part of this story...

That said, it’s such a striking and genuinely cool movie. It dives into a side of Cobain that isn't talked about nearly enough, and as far as docs go, it works really well—especially the technical stuff. It's super dynamic, keeps you hooked, and those animations and transitions are just awesome.

Gerald Ortiz2 said:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4229236/

Just finished watching this documentary... what can I even say? It hits you hard. You feel everything—the fear, the demon, the sorrow. It’s raw, and any true nirvana fan will tell you that. Nothing was sugarcoated or twisted...

The legend lived. Now, I know plenty of people will jump in to comment about his addiction or whatever else...
But he was just such an honest, unassuming guy...

His songs are absolute perfection, though I suppose anyone who truly understands them isn't exactly having the easiest time in life...

As long as people keep listening to his music and talking about him, he stays alive. He'll live on in our hearts forever...

Thank you for sharing so much of yourself through your music...

1. Just quoting you here: it's pretty funny how you think Chester Bennington was an addict, but somehow Kurt Cobain wasn't. XD

2. "Perfection" is what people call songs written by second graders. Most of those tracks are just two chords at most, paired with a bunch of lyrics that don't actually make any sense together.

That said, I have respect for him based on the interviews I've seen, but that's really where it ends for me. 😉

Beyond the movies and the interviews, do you guys think he’s actually lying?



Let's just assume everyone here is a die-hard Nirvana fan who already knows the backstory. 🙂

Just in case you guys aren't fully up to speed on this whole situation...

The rumor is that Kurt wanted to split from Courtney.... and apparently, his plan was to record one more album with Nirvana and then just disappear somewhere with Kristen Pfaff, the bassist for Holea. If I recall correctly, she ended up passing away after being found overdosed in a bathroom.

Then there's this guy in the video, EL Duca, who claims he overheard someone—I think it was Allen Wrench—bragging about how Courtney paid him off to take care of Kurt. Or maybe Courtney offered the money to Duce first, he turned it down, and then Allen stepped up to take the deal. That’s the gist of what he’s saying. They’re all just some folks from out in the sticks near Seattle.... honestly, it reminds me a bit of the rural Midwest.

And of course, you can bet that EL Duca just happened to drop this bombshell in the video by accident.... and then he died in such a freak way just a few days after going public with it. I believe he was hit by a train under some pretty suspicious circumstances right after getting into an argument at his own place, if I'm remembering right... and I also have a hunch that the guy he was arguing with was none other than Allen.

Moving on, here is my theory;
I honestly have my doubts about whether Frances Bean Cobain is actually Kurt's biological daughter.... truthfully, it wouldn't even shock me if she were actually Billy Corgan's. I really wouldn't.

Also, if you check out that documentary about Kurt's death—the one made by the private investigator Courtney hired—you can pick up some really intense details there. 😉