Album of the Week: Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral (1987)

Ashley Grant66 said:I've definitely listened to Angels of Light quite a bit during certain periods, especially How I Loved You and WE are Him.

Gorgeous! Maybe even the best stuff from Angels of Light.

And yeah, I know 'Untitled Love Song' is on the first one you mentioned—that track is just an irreplaceable miracle...
It still blows my mind that Gira wrote that song, like, the exact same person who wrote 'Filth' and 'Cop.'
Oh, I see that's actually the very first comment on YouTube: "Always remember the same guy also made Filth." 😁

I love the 'New Mind' album too.

But, 'Star Chaser' 😍 + the cover art is probably the only thing even remotely similar to those creepy rabbit vibes from Swans (it's just slightly more unsettling).

This 'Under Pressure' cover with Xiu Xiu is my first time hearing it, but man, it's so good!
I hope you managed to get around to listening to the whole album; I'm curious to hear what you think.

Oh yeah, Star Chaser, Untitled..., plus Jennifer's Sorry 🙂 and Public Embarrassment Blues... there's plenty of that stuff.
Maybe even my absolute favorite— Not Here / Not Now.

Glowing Man

Even their more recent stuff carries this incredibly intense, beautiful energy that’s just perfect to sit back and soak in. It honestly feels like the ultimate summer soundtrack for when you're hanging out on a beach in Malibu. They and Godspeed You! Black Emperor are basically built for those kinds of moments.

I actually started listening to them the same year this album dropped, and honestly, along with Holy Money, these are two of my absolute favorite albums by them. Burning World was such a massive letdown right after Children of God back then, but I guess I’ve grown to get used to it, and I still find myself revisiting it sometimes. Their cover of Love Will Tear Us Apart feels pretty unnecessary and just uninteresting to me. This newer era is hitting so hard though, with 😁 two total masterpieces: To Be Kind and The Glowing Man.
I suppose they just need some time. They aren't really the kind of band that clicks with you instantly, but once they do, man, it's intense. The sex in your soul will Damn You to Hell. Goodbye teens.

I really need to sit down and give their whole discography a proper listen. That one album with the rabbit holding a carrot as a weapon definitely hit a bit harder for me. Either way, I’ll be spinning them again soon enough.

Personally, I still think The Great Annihilator is absolute peak... it’s basically what defines Swanse for me, and it feels like their most "universal" work. It always strikes me as weird seeing it labeled as just post-punk in those diagrams, though, because it honestly pulls from every single influence they have in their arsenal.

I’d honestly pay good money just to hear the title track from that album live, but hey, that's just how Swans are. On tour, they pretty much stick to the new stuff.

Then again, I wouldn't mind hearing something from Children of God either—that's easily one of their best, especially after this past week where I'll admit, I've been revisiting it quite a bit... 👍

Just listen to this mantra 🙏

That was an interesting experience. It’s definitely not really my vibe—as some people already mentioned—because it feels a bit over-calculated in its drama, even if that fits the album's theme. That’s probably why I didn't revisit it after listening about ten years ago; it felt like someone was shouting in my face about how important, powerful, and terrifying they were, demanding I take them seriously. That kind of thing irritates me, whether it's people or music, but listening now, I think that might actually be the whole point of the album—there’s a certain layer of irony there. 😁

Anyway, I listened to it three times, so here are a few observations, even though most of you have covered the bases. I really should be working right now, but this is way more fun 😍
Since these songs are clearly multi-layered and any "clear" interpretation is bound to miss the mark, I always try to weave a little story together—maybe I'll hit on something.

Starting with New Mind, it feels like a cult narrative to me—joining a sect (not necessarily literal), being ready to reset everything you thought you knew, and setting the stage for the dualistic thoughts and contrasts that ripple through the album, like Damn You to Hell / Now Save Your Soul...
Then comes In My Garden, where he addresses God (in whatever sense) for the first time—gentle, merciful, and soothing. This leads into Our Love Lies, where he calls out to Him in this desperate, almost pathetic way, followed by Sex God Sex, where that "love" becomes an obsession—uncompromising, brutal, and dirty... it reminded me of characters in Flannery O'Connor stories who provoke and challenge God, loving and hating Him all at once, seeking both salvation and punishment. Their faith drags the most grotesque parts of themselves to the surface.
In Like a Drug, our "hero" seems to be losing his mind a bit, hallucinating... honestly, that was the most tedious part of the album for me; it just bored me. In You're Not Real, I get this sense that the people around him are losing their tangible dimension. Love for others, physicality, sex—none of it matters anymore. He alienates himself and turns inward to see if there's anything "real" left inside him. Beautiful Child is powerful and atmospheric—maybe the best depiction of that internal struggle. I imagine Rosemary wondering if she should kill her child 😁 while convincing herself, "this is MY LIFE, this is MY CHOICE"—killing off everything that holds you back on the path toward self-discovery and enlightenment.
Blackmail, which is such a telling title, feels like another address to that gentle, comforting God, but then in Trust, He becomes terrifying again. Through Girin's creepy vocals in "Don't Be Afraid / You Can Trust Me Now," you get that impression of God ironically mocking His own unconditional love for His "child."
Then we have Real Love, which is my favorite track on the album—totally my style. It reminds me so much of Angels of Light. Blind Love follows it like a sort of reconciliation with mortality, returning to the position of a child, with Girin's vocals acting almost like an extra instrument. And of course, the closing Children of God is incredibly effective and almost hypnotically infectious.

Some standout moments: that beautiful transition from Blackmail into Trust, and the sound of water and nature noises during the shift from Trust into Real Love—is there a connection to Blood and Honey?

Steven Newman50 said:In that dark atmosphere, Girin's shamanic energy dominates, paired with symbolism that complements the music visually, evoking religious soul-cleansing rituals similar to those found in a cult.

Steven Newman50 said:It makes sense in principle—and even though it sounds negative at first glance, there’s this underlying message about universal good, opening your mind, and eventually reaching enlightenment (I know, I say that word way too much, but hey, that's just the energy I get at their shows).

With Gira, it isn't really a direct critique of religion itself; it's more about those deep, personal struggles and internal battles, all told through universal symbols—whether it's suffering, the body, parental relationships, or in this case, Christian religion, the concept of God, and various religious rituals.

I love this 👍
That's pretty much how I experienced it too—hearing regret, obsession, self-loathing, and this desperate pull toward something bigger and stronger through all those laments about violence and reflections on a-corporeality.

Lisa Davis46 said:it loaded on my iPad in such high resolution just now, and I feel like it's already pulling me in,
without even listening to the actual story the album tells starting from the second track (since 'New Mind' is just the prologue).

Oh, now I'm curious—what kind of story is pulling you in if 'New Mind' isn't part of it? No need to write an essay like 😁, but I'd love to hear how everyone else felt, especially those of you who've been spinning this album for a while.

Anyway, this actually reminded me of an album I absolutely adore (not a Swans thing, though) that I might suggest soon. I'm not sure if it'll be a hit with the group, but I'd be so interested to see what you guys think.

Ashley Grant66 said:Such an interesting take. Definitely not my Gira vibe...

Edited 😁

as some people already mentioned, it sometimes feels a bit over-calculated in its drama, even if that fits the album's theme—probably why I didn't really revisit it after listening about ten years ago. It felt like someone was shouting in my face about how important, powerful, and terrifying they were, and how seriously they needed to be taken, which irritates me both in people and in music. But looking at it now, maybe that's actually the point of the album, and there's a certain dose of irony involved 😁

Exactly! That theatricality just bleeds through the whole opus. Maybe some people get the impression they're forcing it, especially since Gira is supposedly a totally different kind of guy in private. A withdrawn recluse who doesn't even want any attention. So the contrast is all the more intense. Though, okay, in interviews he claims he’s just a guy who wants to play and create sound. He's just different by nature, which they achieved simply by being part of the no wave scene. The whole thing just screams "different" 😁

Anyway, I've listened three times now, so here are some observations even though most of you have already hit the nail on the head, because I really should be working right now, and this is way more fun 😍
Given that the songs are definitely multi-layered and any 'clear' interpretation is surely missing the mark, I always try to piece together some sort of story myself, so maybe I'll hit on something here.

You aren't wrong in your description at all, personally I feel like the message being sent is pretty universal.

This is great 👍
That's more or less how I experienced it too—I hear regret, obsession, self-hatred, a longing to connect with something bigger and stronger through lamentations of violence and reflections on the absence of physicality.

More or less, yeah, those are basically Swans in a nutshell 🙂 Plus, those recurring motifs throughout their work are fascinating in their other projects too. Besides Angels of Light, they had Body Lovers / Body Haters and The World of Skin. Just the names they choose for their projects reveal exactly what they're talking about

But man, that last concert I went to... Aside from a few specific moments stuck in my head, I remember the closing mantra where they just—partially and improvised (because things that are 8 or 9 minutes in the studio end up being 20+ minutes live!)—repeated the word "love." And you can truly feel that energy, the essence of that word. No matter how much it comes out of the darkness, it's actually positive. I don't want to sound like a fanatic, but honestly, no religion offers anything like that.

Anyway, this just reminded me of an album I absolutely adore (it’s got nothing to do with Swans, by the way) that I might suggest soon... I honestly don't think it'll be a huge hit, but I'm dying to know what you guys think of it!

Just go for it! Other suggestions are always interesting, even if they don't immediately win over our esteemed audience 😁

Nice... looks like you hit the nail on the head with your take. Like Steven Newman says,
it’s a universal theme and message; it just depends on what each of us takes away from it personally...

Ashley Grant66 said:So, now I'm curious—what kind of story pulled you in, if New Mind isn't part of it? You don't have to write an essay like I do 😁, but I'd love to hear how others experienced it, especially those of you who really love and have been listening to this album for a long time.

Sometimes there's gonna be an essay. Life just kicked my ass these past few days. I'm just starting to get back on my feet
so I don't know when I'll get around to writing the review the way I want to, but I definitely will.

I won't go too broad. 😁 I'll just say what I was thinking regarding why I'm pulling this specific part out of the whole thing (though maybe I'm perceiving and interpreting everything wrong). To me, this album is a classic, almost archetypal, cyclically structured work consisting of 12 songs, and that number itself carries a certain (religious) symbolism and context. Imagine how amazing it would work on repeat without that intro 'New Mind'! A perfect loop! But, that's exactly why I see it as the cursed number 13, an intentional 'addition' in the form of a narrator's opening speech, a prologue... basically, what you wrote. In a way, she presents a part of the plot and prepares us for the resetting of everything known so far—a transformation, an enlightenment, an aggressive lobotomy that merely announces what follows. What follows is the story told to us by Jarboe and Gira; their voices alone provide a certain contrast and further emphasize the duality of the album, and the story is wrapped in two very specific mantras that bring it full circle.

First, starting with something fragile and colored by tragedy, 'In My Garden,' it begins this tale of immortality, formlessness, and the timelessness of the spiritual:
In my garden / Things grow in my garden / Things will grow / Then they die / Then they're gone / In my garden / We'll never grow old (...)

And in the final mantra, 'Children of God,' the story describes the certain, determined transience of the earthly, physical form, closing the loop:
We are special / We are perfect / We were born in the sight of god / Our suffering bodies will suffer no more / We are Children of God (...)

Even though it's quite antithetical as a whole—aside from the intro 'New Mind,' which might be a reaction to how certain ideologies affect the masses, media aggression, or the aggression of 'preachers'—I don't see anything ironic in this album. I can't find that exact quote right now (I think it's from the book, 'Swans: Sacrifice and Transcendence: An Oral History'), but Gira said in interviews from that era that there was absolutely no intention here to run everything through a sarcastic subtext or to mock religion, even though he isn't religious himself. On the contrary, what interests him is the value system that faith and religion promote and what it's essentially built upon. At the same time, he understands that all ideologies contain extremely high intensities of destructive (but also creative) collective power in relation to the average small person, the individual. That kind of power definitely fascinates him.

Actually, I get the feeling he wanted to step into the mindset of a believer, but without criticizing or supporting it. He looks at faith or Christianity more from the perspective of social conditioning rather than dogma. Even though the concept of 'blind' faith in 'something greater than ourselves' is probably (at least) foreign to him, he approaches the theme with a fair amount of reverence. It seems to me that this is a very dear album to him, one that marked his greatest transformation... personally, romantically, in his partnership (that was around when that unbreakable bond between him and Jarboe happened), but also musically, for Swans themselves:

"Swans had basically exhausted that whole approach of just physically assaulting the listener with pure volume. I felt like moving in a different direction; I didn't want us to get stuck in one lane, especially since sticking to that old style risked becoming a total caricature. So, I started pushing the music into uncharted territory. We spent about six weeks hunkered down in this isolated, old-school sawmill out in rural Maine, just 'experimenting' and figuring things out. Even though there was plenty of unavoidable friction between me and the band back then, I actually look back on that period with a lot of affection. I miss everyone from that era... *sigh*. Musically, everyone killed it, and they were just as enthusiastic about draining the local beers and polishing off all the free food. Jarboe's presence started feeling much more central, too."
(...)
Lyrically, I had always gravitated toward abstract themes—stuff like power, money, sex, work, that kind of thing. At the time, I was watching a ton of Jimmy Swaggart on TV, and I honestly thought he was a phenomenal rock performer, so I tried to channel his energy as much as possible. I wasn't trying to make fun of religious fervor—that would've been the easy, cliché move for that era—but rather try to inhabit it. Everybody wants to lose themselves in something greater than themselves. I guess I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Anyway, Children of God was a massive turning point for Swans, and the musical seeds planted during this time really paved the way for everything we did later."
- Michael Gira, 1986/7

Steven Newman50 said:That last concert I went to was something else—really stuck with me. Aside from those specific moments that are burned into my brain, I can’t stop thinking about that final mantra where they just kept repeating the word "love"—it was mostly improvised, too, since those studio tracks that usually run 8 or 9 minutes get stretched out to 20 plus during a live set. But man, you could actually feel the energy behind that word. Even though it felt like it was coming out of the darkness, it was genuinely positive. I don't want to sound like some fanatic, but honestly, I don't think any religion offers anything quite like that.

Awesome!

Lisa Davis46, thanks so much—your take on this was honestly pretty eye-opening! 😁That’s exactly why I wanted to see if anyone more "in the know" would share their take on what was actually happening behind the scenes during the making of the album. Honestly, I can't wrap my head around all that number symbolism stuff—it always goes right over my head! I tend to get hung up on specific lyrics or little structural quirks in the songs instead. But I did find myself wondering about that sound of rushing water at the end of Trust—I wonder if there's a connection to Blood and Honey where they mention a river? It feels like it might tie back into those whole baptism themes and things like that.

Lisa Davis46 said:Even though the whole thing feels pretty antithetical—aside from that intro "New Mind," which feels like a reaction to mass ideologies, media aggression, or those loudmouthed "preachers"—I don't see anything ironic in this album. I can't quite pin down that specific quote of his right now—I think it was from a book, actually. I just finished reading "Swans: Sacrifice and Transcendence: The Oral History"—it’s such a fascinating deep dive! It really gives you a whole new perspective on how they evolved over the years.Actually, Gira mentioned in interviews from that era that the whole point wasn't to weave everything through sarcasm or mock religion—even though he isn't religious himself. It’s more about how he's fascinated by the core value systems that faith and religion promote. He seems to realize that all ideologies carry this massive, intense collective power—both destructive and creative—that completely dwarfs the average person. That kind of power definitely captures his interest.

I honestly feel like he was trying to tap into a believer's mindset—but without actually taking sides or preaching—you know? He seems to look at faith or Christianity more through the lens of social conditioning rather than strict dogma. Even if the whole idea of "blind" faith in something higher isn't really his thing, he still approaches the subject with a ton of respect. It feels like this is a deeply cherished album for him, too—it marked such a massive transformation... personally, romantically, even in his partnership (that's around when that unbreakable bond between him and Jarboe really solidified)—and musically, for Swans themselves:

👍
I didn't mean to imply the irony was purely mocking—though, honestly, those outbursts toward God can feel almost intentionally over-the-top and grotesque from where I'm sitting! But like I mentioned with Trust, I really feel that sharp contrast between those terrifying vocals and the warmth of lyrics like "Don't Be Afraid / You Can Trust Me Now"—it’s this wild mix where fear just weaves right into trust and love.
I really love this quote of his—it clears up so much. The whole televangelist motivation thing is just fascinating, and honestly, it feels pretty close to what Byrne is doing too.

Hey, I actually found that book quote I was talking about:



And just one more thing (I promise I'll stick to this week's topic starting tomorrow 🙂).
Even though lately I've been digging personal listener takes (like on Rate Your Music, Pitchfork's comment sections, or even here 😉) way more than actual critic reviews, my little number-based interpretation is honestly just something I cooked up... I didn't pull it from anywhere and I don't recall reading anything similar, so maybe take it with a grain of salt as just one possible way to read it...

But everything points me toward that conclusion. I think they intentionally picked 'New Mind' as the only single from the album, especially with that manic music video (maybe the only ironic moment meant to mock televangelism).
Besides that, it's the only track that maintains a solid link to the industrial / no wave sound of their earlier stuff like 'Filth', 'Cop', and 'Greed' (the rest of the tracks are pretty different, though they blend with those two I mentioned thanks to Jarboe), but it serves as a huge indicator of the new direction, which really culminated with the 'Nirvana - In Utero' album.

Ugh, maybe Byrne or TH could weigh in—not sure if you were thinking along those lines. 🙂