Clones and penalty points

The title pretty much says it all, but I figured I’d lay out the details for clarity: a Forum User with an original handle can essentially operate through a Clone account. If the original user picks up 50 points for trolling one day, and then their Clone picks up another 50 points for the same thing the next, that’s 100 penalty points sitting on one person—yet neither account gets banned. It gets even more frustrating when you consider someone running a whole fleet of accounts like Clone1, Clone2, all the way up to Clone20. If each one grabs 50 points for trolling, that’s a massive 1,000 points accumulated by a single individual, yet not a single one of those nicknames faces a ban. Meanwhile, those of us playing by the rules and sticking to just one single account end up serving our bans regularly.

How do you all think we should fix this unfairness? Don't you think it's high time we implemented a rule to ban all associated Clone accounts at once? 🙂

I'm not sure what there is to be confused about here. Some Forum Users are using allowed clones to bypass their deserved penalties, just like the opening post illustrates: they spread their penalty points across multiple accounts. It’s really not my job to sit around tracking the point balances of specific Forum Users or their clones just to report them. On the other hand, those users who stick to just one account end up serving their bans fairly. Please look at this thread as part of the PŽK's effort to address a major loophole in our rules.

Clones are allowed on the site, but you can't go using them on the same threads or in any other way meant to confuse people or manipulate the rules... so if you catch someone intentionally using clones to mess with things, just report them.

I think you might be missing my point. He isn't talking about using clones to spam the exact same thread or subforum.
The current setup allows someone to use different profiles across various subforums. In theory, a user could spin up 10 different accounts for 10 different sections. If they rack up two strikes on each individual account, they’ve effectively accumulated 20 strikes in reality, yet not a single profile gets banned, leaving them free to keep posting with all ten...
On the flip side, if a single person uses just one profile to post across 10 subforums, they hit a total of three strikes and get slapped with a three-day site-wide cooling-off period.
Now, obviously, nobody is running around with 10 separate identities, but plenty of people juggle two, three, or five, picking up strikes on each without ever triggering a ban because the penalties aren't being aggregated properly.
I'm not sure if you see how this creates a pretty discriminatory policy against users with fewer accounts. In practice, this approach incentivizes Forum Users—especially the troublemakers—to spread their presence across multiple subforums using different profiles. And I highly doubt that's the intention here. The users who consistently run into trouble are quite skilled at exploiting this loophole...
As far as I can tell, there are really only two ways to fix this gap in the rules:
either by tracking all profiles belonging to the same person and aggregating their total strikes
or by simply banning multiple accounts per person, requiring everyone to stick to just one profile for the entire site.

I’m totally with this thread. I’m backing everything Richard Sanders7 and Forum User Thomas Davis98 said.

By the way, I have no clue why I got banned yesterday. I was just supporting the topic with my own experience. It wasn't trolling. Just because I'm always in a good mood doesn't mean I'm messing around.

Basically, one person using ten different handles—doesn't matter how many—can cause issues across multiple threads without getting properly penalized.

Feel free to check my profile. Look at my points, my bans, and how often I've been muted. No hard feelings, I know I'm a model user. But it also seems like a "model user" is just anyone who manages to juggle a dozen accounts while staying right on the edge of the forum rules.

So, what I was saying yesterday is that I messed up by siding with Rachel Palmer56. She wasn't even trying to hide her connection to me, and she's basically retired anyway.

Something isn't adding up here. You can decide for yourselves who's actually being suppressed and who's running wild through the corners of this forum.

I only see the logic in having two accounts in very specific situations.

Anyway, no emojis here, so hopefully you won't take this as trolling.

Under the strict guidelines of the GDPR, nobody has the right to link a real-life identity to an online profile without that person's explicit permission. Because of that legal barrier, there simply isn't a viable solution to this heated issue 🙂

Look, it’s not just about whether they have the right to do it—it’s actually illegal. It’s a criminal offense. Even if you're only leaking info that only you personally know.
But we're talking about linking usernames here, not someone's actual legal name. I only know one Forum User on this site who uses their real name, and they're already pretty well-known in certain circles.

So, if we're really going to obsess over justice and playing fair, we need to decide if this is actually okay.
It's not like I'm worried about anything. Yesterday's drama didn't even phase me, and honestly, I don't care where anyone goes or what they do—I'll just skip over the irrelevant stuff. But these two are right, and I have every right to say so.

Rachel Palmer56 said:Of course, it's not just about whether they have the right—it’s strictly prohibited by law. It's a criminal offense, period. Even if you're only leaking details that only you happen to know.
But let's be realistic here: we're talking about linking two usernames together, not exposing someone's actual legal identity. Aside from one single Forum User here who uses their real name and happens to be a public figure in certain circles, we aren't dealing with identities.

So, if we're going to play the "justice and fairness" card, we actually need to evaluate whether this is truly an issue.
Look, I'm not losing sleep over this, and yesterday's drama didn't bother me one bit. I don't care where people go or what they do; if it's irrelevant, I'll just skip past it. But in this case, those two are absolutely right, and I have every right to point that out.

I get that, but the fundamental issue is that the only thing connecting two different handles on this forum is the actual human being behind them. There isn't any other link unless you start using private information—names, email addresses, IP addresses, cookies, you name it. Under GDPR, personal data is defined as anything that can lead to the identification of a real person. And using it like that is strictly forbidden.

I'm telling you, I understand the dilemma, but this is just an inherent part of anonymous online communication. There is simply no way to resolve this tension. 🤷

We actually already chewed through this whole topic over in that other GDPR thread. At the end of the day, a private forum can set whatever rules it wants, provided they stay within the bounds of the law. One of those rules could easily be that you have to share your IP address or some other specific data point just to get in. If you aren't willing to do that, then you simply can't be a member of the community.

Thomas Davis98 👍

Sorry to crash the party here—since this is a PŽK thread, I hope you guys don't mind me jumping in—but I honestly think there's a way to fix this situation. What if we just treated the first active username as the "primary"? Then, if that same person opens any other accounts later, they just get tagged as clones under that main one. From a coding standpoint, it’s a pretty simple fix, and I won't even get into the whole methodology of how we actually "detect" clones—that’s not really the point here...

If we want things to be fair, it would be just as easy to programmatically roll up all those individual "clone" profiles and points back onto the primary account. That way, if the primary account gets banned, all its clones go down with it.

Also, I think partial credit should be shared—meaning, if one clone earns a partial, everyone else in that group—including the primary account—gets that same credit applied to their profile.

In my opinion, this approach would level the playing field for all Forum Users, regardless of how many clones they're running. The only real weak spot or potential failure I see in this plan is the part I already mentioned: the actual detection of clones.
The whole thing hinges on how that specific part works...

Richard Sanders7 said:The title pretty much spells it out, but let me break it down for you: imagine a Forum User with an original handle, let's call him "Original," who also operates under a clone account called "Clone." If Original gets hit with 50 penalty points for trolling one day, and then Clone racks up another 50 points for trolling the next, that’s 100 total points for the exact same person—yet neither Original nor Clone actually gets banned! It gets even worse when you realize a single user can have a whole fleet of clones like Clone1, Clone2, all the way up to Clone20. Each one grabs 50 points for being a jerk, totaling 1,000 points for just one individual, yet not a single account ever sees the ban hammer. Meanwhile, us honest Forum Users who stick to our one and only handle end up serving our bans like clockwork.

So, how do we fix this blatant unfairness? Isn't it about time we just banned the use of clones altogether? 🙂

Look, if the moderators decide that someone is abusing clones for any reason—especially to dodge a ban—they have the authority to ban that user's primary account, one of their extras, or every single profile they own. They can do whatever they deem appropriate based on the rules, the specific violation, the accumulated points, and whatever else fits the situation. Now, keep in mind, the mods might not always know if someone is using a clone; they might be unsure, or they might suspect it but don't feel like digging through every single profile's point history—which, to be fair, isn't really their job. They also have the discretion to let things slide if they decide it's reasonable given the circumstances... you know, everything.

rustydrifter10 said:If the moderation team decides someone is abusing alt accounts for any reason—including trying to dodge a ban—they have the authority to suspend one, several, or even all associated profiles. They’ll decide what’s appropriate based on the rules, the specific violation, user reputation points, and whatever else fits the situation. Now, the mods might not immediately realize an account is an alt, they might be unsure, or they might know for sure but choose not to audit every single profile's history, which isn't really their job anyway. They also have the discretion to let things slide if they feel it’s reasonable given the circumstances.

Given that the policy explicitly states alts are allowed, I don't see how any part of that reasoning makes the current situation any less unfair. But hey, if you want to leave the wording as is, that's entirely up to you. ☕

Yeah, it’s totally unfair.

The people running around with alt accounts—you know, the clones—can get banned on one sub-forum and just hop right over to another one using their other profiles to keep talking. Meanwhile, the honest folks (or maybe just the "clueless" ones!) who only have one single account? As soon as they get banned from one section, they're basically exiled from the entire site. It’s a total wipeout.

It honestly feels like this unintentionally encourages toxic behavior—like, why bother being a decent person if there's zero incentive to follow the rules?

By letting this slide, the admins and mods are basically shooting themselves in the foot. Instead of someone getting banned and actually taking a beat to think about their actions, those with multiple accounts just feel emboldened. They realize the punishment is practically nonexistent, which makes them even more reckless and arrogant because they know they can just pivot to another profile and keep doing whatever they want.

Maybe a better way to handle this (if the tech allows it) would be to let Forumaš have multiple profiles—since some people definitely want to stay anonymous on certain topics—but if *any* of those profiles get banned, it triggers an automatic ban for every single associated account.

That way, the bad actors get caught, and the rest of us can actually enjoy the community.

Gregory Ramirez2 said:Yeah, it’s totally unfair.

Someone running alt accounts who gets banned on one forum can just hop right over to another subforum using their other profiles...

Not quite.

The penalty for that is a permanent ban on the primary profile and an extra seven-day suspension on the secondary one.

What Richard Sanders7 is talking about is a different issue entirely—specifically people trying to farm points using multiple accounts to dodge bans—and while that could be a problem, as rustydrifter10 pointed out, we need you guys to flag those situations for us... based on what we've seen so far, those cases are incredibly rare, but if we catch someone doing it intentionally, they'll face the consequences.

Richard Sanders7 said:The title pretty much spells it out, but let me break down why this is such a mess: imagine a regular user has an alt account under the name Klon. If that main user racks up 50 penalty points for trolling one day, and then their Klon account picks up another 50 the next, that’s 100 points total hitting the exact same person—yet neither account actually gets banned. It gets even worse when you consider someone running a whole fleet of alts like Klon1, Klon2, all the way up to Klon20. Each one could snag 50 points for being a nuisance, totaling 1,000 points for a single individual without a single ban being issued. Meanwhile, those of us playing by the rules and sticking to just one username end up serving our bans like clockwork.

How do you all think we can fix this injustice? Isn't it about time we implemented a ban on using multiple accounts to bypass penalties? 🙂

You're just trolling... ☕

lonebadger6 said:Not gonna happen.

The penalty for that is a permanent ban on one account and an extra seven-day suspension on the other.

What Richard Sanders7 is talking about is a different story (he’s talking about farming points using multiple accounts to dodge bans), which could be an issue. But like rustydrifter10 said, just give us a heads-up if you see stuff like that happening. In our experience, those cases are super rare, and if we catch someone doing it on purpose, they're getting busted.

They specifically made certain profiles just to trash another user in the worst way possible, got banned, and then they're still hanging out here on their main accounts.
Are you actually going to step up and hand out the proper punishment? If so, I'll send you the profiles so you can see exactly who we're dealing with.???
Just graying out offensive profiles isn't enough.

That's just one example of what people get away with... I'd really like to see them get punished properly.

lonebadger6 said:No way.

Wait, didn't someone mention on here before that you aren't allowed to post in the same thread using two different accounts? And also—wasn't there something about how you can't use a private message to help someone get banned by using a second profile?

Is there an actual rule written down somewhere on the forum regarding this (using multiple profiles)?
Just asking because I haven't seen it explicitly stated, but it seems like something worth knowing!

Rachel Palmer56 said:They basically went out of their way to set up fake accounts just to tear other members down in the worst way possible. Those burner profiles got banned, but the people behind them are still wandering around here using their original accounts like nothing happened.
Are you actually going to be the one to step up and hand out some real consequences? Because if you are, I’ll happily send over those profiles so you can see exactly who we're dealing with and what they've been up to.???
In my opinion, just banning the offensive troll accounts isn't nearly enough.

That right there is just one example of how much people get away with on here... personally, I'd love to see them face some actual discipline for once.

Just compile everything into a PDF showing the insults and send it straight to the moderators, the head supermod, or the admin.

rustydrifter10 said:Just send the mods a PDF showing where he was being abusive toward a supermod or an admin.

I already sent it to everyone. Nobody even bothered to read it or react, and you know exactly what went down.🤷