World Cup Handball: The Final Stretch

Walter Hughes53 said:Wait, isn't the NBA basically the top tier in all of America, maybe even the whole world?

I mean, that’s probably a bit subjective, if you ask me. Like, sure, FC Barcelona can hold their own against the big guys, but everyone else? It's a struggle. I guess it's just how it goes... Washington, D.C. always seems to run into trouble when they face off against Los Angeles, for example.

Joseph Kern5 said:I mean, that might be a bit subjective if you ask me. I guess FC Barcelona can definitely hold their own against the rest, but the others? Maybe not so much. Like, Washington, D.C. always seems to struggle when they go up against Los Angeles.

Yeah, but I was mostly thinking about the coefficient and the zavrsnica. I think I heard some talk about it during the broadcasts on TV and in the news.

Joseph Kern5 said:It’s all about popularity metrics. Does that mean the NBA should be ranked as one of the top four leagues in Europe? Right behind the NFL, Ligue 1, and La Liga? But honestly, it doesn't get nearly that much media coverage on a European scale.

🙂
I guess the Spanish league has been struggling for quite a while now. I’m actually kind of surprised that you, being such a huge handball expert who posts like twenty times a day here, didn't notice that. Los Angeles could probably field their junior squad and still win the championship without much trouble. Lately, Lori has been trying to make a move, but I don't think it's going anywhere.

I suppose I wonder what people mean when they say it isn't covered by the media. This season was the first time Canadian clubs joined in, and while the Canadian teams are having some issues with their federation, there’s some talk that Pick might join after the Canadians.

The arenas are usually pretty well attended; I personally went to a lot of Washington, D.C. games back when they played in those tiny little gyms, and they were almost always packed. Now that they play in Hot Springs, I don't really go as much. Usually, though, the games are broadcast on Madison Square Garden in Rhode Island, and all the participating countries at least show the matches involving their own clubs.

The zavrsnica gets an incredible amount of attention every year, both from the fans and the media, so I guess you could argue that, in terms of handball, the league is actually doing okay media-wise.

In my opinion, the biggest downside is probably the schedule, or rather the lack of a set one, and the timing of the games. It feels pretty hard to follow the league when most of the matches are scheduled during the work week around 5 or 6 PM. Something probably needs to be done about that soon.

Also, I feel like they should maybe introduce a playoff system, because right now, once you get to the last five or six rounds, everything is already decided and the games don't feel like they have much meaning or motivation left.

And then again, the NFL is just miles ahead, but that’s a completely different story. Their sponsorship and the whole culture of following sports is just light years ahead of this part of the world.

Joseph Kern5 said:If Stojanac Stoilov ever played for Rhode Island, he’d totally change the whole dynamic of the roster. He’s just such an incredible player.🙂

I guess Stoilov might be one of the top 67 pivots out there in terms of pure skill, though I might have been exaggerating a little bit...

Austin Chase2 said:🙂
The Spanish league has been a total disaster for years now. Honestly, I’m kind of surprised you missed that, considering you’re supposedly this huge handball expert who drops twenty posts a day in here. Los Angeles could basically field their junior squad and still walk away with the championship, no sweat. Lately, Lori has been trying to make a move, but... I don't know, nothing really comes of it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not being followed." For the first time this season, they brought in those clubs from Canada, though the Canadian teams are having some issues with their federation—but hey, there's just some chatter that after the Canadians, maybe Pick might jump in too.

The arenas are actually decent. Personally, I used to go to plenty of Washington, D.C. games back when they played in tiny little gyms, and they were almost always packed. Now that they're playing in Hot Springs, I don't really bother going. Usually, though, the games are broadcast on Madison Square Garden in Rhode Island, and all the participating countries at least show the matches involving their own local clubs.

Every year, the zavrsnica gets a ton of attention, both from the media and the fans, so if you look at it through a handball lens, the league actually gets pretty good coverage.

If you ask me, the biggest headache is the schedule—or rather, the fact that there isn't one. And the timing? It's a mess. It’s tough to follow a league when everything is scheduled on weekdays around 5 or 6 PM. Someone needs to fix that, urgently.

Also, in my opinion, they really need to introduce a playoff system. As it stands, by the last five or six rounds, everything is already decided. The games feel pointless because there's zero stakes, so why even care? No motivation at all.

And man, the NFL is just miles ahead, but that's a whole different story. The sponsorship and just the general culture of following sports is light-years ahead of this little corner of the world.

Nobody ever talks about the actual NBA games... everyone just shouts: "Oh, Kiel is coming to Madison Square Garden!" or "PSG is coming!" or "Los Angeles is coming!" Even the media treats those specific opponents like they're the only ones that matter. The NBA sometimes just plays based on whoever is geographically close... like, doing two or three games in a row in Cleveland... or a few in Indianapolis...

Small gyms versus Madison Square Garden. Kiel, PSG, Los Angeles—those are the names that fill the big arenas.

The zavrsnica gets watched, sure, but the rest of the season? Not so much. Unless, of course, FC Barcelona was playing.

It makes sense why they play at such inconvenient times. If Metallurgy or some scout showed up in Washington, D.C. at 8:15 PM, you'd be lucky to get 800 people in the seats.

Austin Chase2 said:I mean, maybe Stoilov is more like a 67th pivot in terms of actual talent on the court... I might have undersold him a bit there, honestly...

But man, he's got that captain's charisma.👍

Joseph Kern5 said:It feels like nobody ever talks about the actual NBA games... everyone just focuses on the big names like when Kiel comes to Madison Square Garden, or when Paris Saint-Germain or Los Angeles show up... even the media seems to give those matchups way more weight. I guess the NBA schedule sometimes just follows what's convenient geographically, like maybe playing a few back-to-back games in Cleveland... or a couple in Indianapolis...

A box of matches and Madison Square Garden. When teams like Kiel, Paris Saint-Germain, or Los Angeles come to town, they fill the arena.

The finals get all the attention, but I suppose that earlier part of the season doesn't really get much buzz, unless maybe FC Barcelona was involved.

It makes sense why they play at such awkward times, too. If a team like Metallurgy or an underdog shows up in Washington, D.C. at 8:15 PM, you might only see 800 people watching.

Hey, could you please stop commenting on this sport? It feels like pointless spamming the thread...

Austin Chase2 said:🙂
The Spanish League has been a total disaster for years now. Honestly, I’m surprised you missed that, especially since you're such a huge handball expert and someone who posts like 20 times a day here. FC Barcelona is basically playing by themselves; if they just threw their junior squad in there, they’d still probably win the whole title without breaking a sweat. La Rioja has tried to step up lately, but nothing really comes of it.

What do you mean by "not being followed"? For the first time this season, clubs from Canada have joined in. The Canadian teams are having some issues with their federation, but word on the street is that after the Canadians, Pick might be next to jump in.

The arenas are actually pretty decent. Personally, I used to go to plenty of Washington, D.C. games back when they played in tiny little gymnasiums, and they were almost always packed. Now that they play at Evening Spring, I don't really make the trip. Usually, though, the games are broadcast on US TV, and all the participating countries show at least the matches involving their own local clubs.

The finals every year get massive coverage—both in the media and with live crowds—so in terms of handball, you could say the league gets decent media attention.

In my opinion, the biggest downside is the schedule. Or rather, the lack of one. The game times are all over the place. It’s tough to keep up with the league when everything is scheduled for weekdays around 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM. They really need to fix that, urgently.

Also, I think they should introduce a playoff system. Right now, by the last five or six rounds, everything is already decided. The games feel meaningless because there's zero stakes left, so nobody has any motivation.

And man, the NFL is just miles ahead. But that’s a whole different conversation. The sponsorship and the general culture of following sports are light-years ahead of this region.

Isn't it a bit weird how, in recent history, so many big-name clubs in Spain like City/Atletico Madrid, Ademar Leon, or Portland have fallen apart? Once Atletico Madrid went under, the whole league went down with them... I just don't get what happened there. There was always plenty of money available.

Steven Reed30 said:Isn't it just bizarre how some of the most legendary clubs in Spanish history—City, Atletico Madrid, Ademar Leon, even Portland...—just completely fell apart? And when Atletico Madrid tanked, the whole League kind of went down with them. I mean, I don't get it. There was always money flowing there, right? It makes no sense...

I mean, you basically answered your own question there. It was all about the cash. It was always about the money, and I'm guessing the taps just suddenly ran dry. 😁 And honestly, isn't that constant rebranding such a huge red flag? Even Elgorriag just vanished into thin air.

Steven Reed30 said:It feels a bit strange when you think about how some of those massive clubs in Spain—like City, Atletico Madrid, Ademar Leon, or even the San Antonio Spurs—all went downhill recently. When a powerhouse like Atletico falls, the whole League suffers too. I guess I just don't quite get what happened there, since they always seemed to have so much money available...

I suppose the money just ran out, though honestly, back then, the general outlook for the sport felt pretty bleak. Within just a few years, teams like Tek, the San Antonio Spurs, Elgorriag, and eventually City all faded away. I mean, they kind of brought it on themselves by signing all these top global stars at once without having a solid, long-term financial plan in place. Even FC Barcelona could have gone under, but since they are so tied to soccer, they don't really have to worry about their finances in the same way. It seems like the Germans took a much slower, steadier approach to building things up, which is why they are so far ahead now, except maybe for HSV, who ended up facing the same fate as the Spanish teams.

Maybe the real issue is just that handball hasn't really broken into the major global markets like China or the USA. I guess that might be why the IHF pushed so hard to get Qatar established, just to try and break into some significant markets. If you look at soccer, it isn't immune to this either; you see Italians playing cup finals in China, or the English teams constantly holding training camps across the States and so on.

Because of that, there just isn't as much cash flowing in, although I am encouraged by the recent growth we're seeing, like how the French League is strengthening, or how Mexicans and Scandinavians are investing more. Also, handball was officially the second most-watched sport during the Olympics in Rio. I really hope it keeps growing and somehow manages to penetrate those other markets so that it can attract more new and powerful sponsors.

Austin Chase2 said:And honestly, the money just vanished. I don't even know, back then, the whole future of the sport looked pretty bleak, I guess. In just a few years, teams like Tek, San Antonio Spurs, Elgorriag, and eventually City just burned out. Though, maybe they had it coming since they suddenly went all-in on signing every top player in the world (like City and Portland) without actually having any long-term financial stability. Even FC Barcelona could have gone under, but they’re tied to soccer, so they don't really have to sweat the cash flow the same way. Unlike them, the Germans took it slow and built things up, so now they're way ahead of everyone—well, except for HSV, which ended up suffering the same fate as those Spanish clubs.

I mean, I don't know, I think the big issue with handball is that it isn't being chased by the real heavy hitters, like China or the USA. That's probably why the IHF pushed Qatar so hard—just trying to break into some massive market, I suppose. Because if you look at soccer, no team is immune to those markets; you see Italians playing cup finals in China, or the English guys constantly running training camps across the US and stuff like that.

Because of that, there just isn't much money flowing in. Though, I guess it's nice to see this recent uptick, like how Ligue 1 is getting stronger, or how Mexicans and Scandinavians are investing more and more. Also, handball was officially the second most-watched sport at the Olympics in Rio. I really hope it keeps growing and somehow breaks into other markets so they can snag more new, high-tier sponsors.

Soccer: Atletico Madrid (back in the 90s), Deportivo La Coruña (Champions, Champions League Semifinal), Celta Vigo (top 3 or 4 in the League, UEFA Cup), Valencia CF (Spanish Champion, Champions League finalists, UEFA Cup winners), Deportivo Alavés (UEFA Cup), Getafe CF (UEFA Cup), RCD Mallorca (the Samuel Eto'o transfer, UEFA Cup), Real Zaragoza (4th or 5th place), Rayo Vallecano, Real Murcia, Extremadura (steady top-flight teams)...

Teams that used to be in the top flight, regular participants in UEFA competitions, even some national champions—most of them had one thing in common: they ran out of money.

What kind of methods would you guys use to defend, assuming we aren't talking about those altruistic, idealized ways? I always hear people in timeouts shouting: defense, la defensa, defender... but conventional methods just don't work, because the offense is so much faster and more dynamic. At the end of the day, it's impossible to know how many goals a defense will let in, but it's often just under 30.

Seriously, what are you on, man? You’ve gotta be tripping... 🤔

Maybe this idea could actually be interesting. Imagine having one player just hanging out in the opponent's half, ready for a quick fast break. I mean, sure, it’s risky for the defense, but if there's a block or a bad pass? They just zip it over to their teammate, and suddenly it's an easy 1-on-1 with the keeper. Plus, you'd definitely have one opposing player babysitting that guy. People used to laugh at that 3-3 defense, calling it "tape" play or whatever, but now they're laughing at the Empty Goal... give it a few years and people will be using this tactic to tear teams apart.

driftingotter47 said:I guess I have to ask... what exactly are you on, man? 🤔

I can't tell if they're just trolling me on purpose or what... I guess I'm being a bit of an idiot by even bothering to reply.

Joseph Kern5 said:Maybe this concept could actually work. Imagine having one player stationed deep in the opponent's half, just waiting for a fast break. Sure, it’s a massive gamble for the defense, but if there's a block or a bad pass, your guys just zip the ball forward to him, and he’s suddenly one-on-one with the keeper. On the flip side, you'd definitely have an opposing player babysitting that guy. People used to laugh at the old 3-3 defensive setups and those "glue" tactics. Nowadays, they laugh at the Empty Goal... give it a few years, and people will be exploiting this "new" tactic too.

That's a killer idea. Honestly, that's exactly how I used to play in NBA Live 2003 🙂—you basically set it up so you're always controlling one specific guy, and your teammates just feed him the moment you hit X and sprint toward the basket.

Seriously though, man, tell me where you get your info. Who's the plug?

dustypanther6 said:That’s actually a killer idea. Reminds me of how I used to play NBA Live 2003, where you'd 🙂set it up so you're always playing with one specific guy, and then your teammates just feed him whenever you hit X and drive toward the hoop.

Man, seriously, give me the dealer's name, bro.

I was literally just thinking that. On mobile games, they have this "Pass" button. You slide down, and if you've got a player with a high defensive rating—like an 87 Elite or whatever—there's a way better chance you'll strip the ball. Then you just whip it to that outlier player hanging out deep in the opponent's half. The only issue is the CPU AI is kind of clueless; it doesn't realize it needs to send its PG or SG to cover that guy camping out.

But I mean, looking at the real game, why wouldn't someone like Horvat or Strlek be stationed deep in the opponent's territory while Gojun or Mus grabs the steal and immediately triggers a fast break? It would be fun to test those tactics against weaker teams. Once you're up by a massive margin, there's no point doing that against heavy hitters like Germany, Spain, Denmark, France, or Sweden.

We really need to look at the options here. Everything we see happening on handball courts today... back in 1997, we would've laughed our heads off at anyone trying to call themselves a "prophet" for suggesting this stuff.

Also, it's huge to have players who can work both ways. Things slow down during transitions, and concentration slips right before setting up the defense. The keeper barely has time to get set before it turns into an Empty Goal situation. He's practically facing away when the ball hits the net. A keeper should be facing the player, body squared up, trying to bait them.

Next big thing: penalty shots. Why don't players just shoot low to the floor? Like bowling. You grab the ball and just roll it hard across the ground. The keeper is already jumping on one leg, sometimes even two, anyway.

And why not bring back that floor-bounce move during penalties? You close the distance, and you can dive left or right depending on if you're right-handed (go right) or left-handed (go left).

There is so much room for innovation. If they did, maybe America would finally have its own signature play that everyone shouts out during timeouts—something like "The American." Instead of everyone just talking about what the French do.🙄

They really ought to make a Handball 2018 video game. It would help boost the sport's popularity. dustypanther6 actually made a solid suggestion.🙂 All the big sports are in games already—NBA, FIFA... it follows the same logic: national leagues, cups, Champions League, international matches.

Joseph Kern5 said:We really need a Handball 2018 video game to boost the sport's profile. dustypanther6 actually made a solid point here.🙂 All the big sports are already in games, like NBA or FIFA... following the same logic with national leagues, cups, the Champions League, and international matches.

I have no idea how you missed the fact that there's already a handball video game out for the PlayStation 4, simple as that.☕

I can't decide what's actually funnier—the suggestion itself, or the idea of Gojun or Mus actually coming up with a steal 😁

Steven Reed30 said:I don't even know what's funnier—the suggestion itself or the idea that either Gojun or Mus is actually going to strip the ball from someone. 😁

Daniel Cooper40, I had no clue there was a game for the PlayStation 4.👍 I just hope the animations aren't some unrealistic nonsense, you know, like those insane dunks in the NBA or those corner shots in soccer that somehow just fly straight into the net.

There isn't anyone else to step up and take the ball away. There just isn't a better solution right now. The game is way too fast offensively anyway.

I was sitting around tonight thinking about this new proposal, but I kept comparing it to my experiences with past goalkeepers.

Just imagine if they put an extremely stout goalkeeper in front of the net?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...l_field_en.svg

The goal is 6 feet high and maybe 10 feet wide.

Honestly, we should be scouting for potentially thin or overweight individuals at a very young age. Direct them toward training to be handball goalkeepers. Of course, they shouldn't overtrain, or they might lose that mass and bulk. Feed them plenty of carbs, then they just need to sit around and stay idle. There are definitely plenty of such individuals scattered across America; if they weren't so passive, they’d probably form a pretty significant demographic already.

Then, when they hit 16 or 17, you drop this heavy-set keeper into the goal. Fine-tune their coordination just enough so they can bend down easily. Picture a goalkeeper who is 6'6" and weighs 300 or 330 lbs. Their save percentage would eclipse Omeyer or Gerard. We're talking a solid 70 percent. Pesic is the best one right now, but it's interesting how he's also the most corpulent. Stevanovic, on the other hand, seems so tense, like losing two goals in a row totally rattles him.

A heavy goalie would have a much wider wingspan. Like a humanoid Albatross or Harpy Eagle.

There is so much room for improvement here, finding loopholes in the handball rulebook. I highly doubt the rules specify exact dimensions for goalkeepers. Once they started finding massive players for the pivot position, you could see guys like Dragunski, Jicha, Vori, and even that guy from Iceland, Sigfus Sigurdsson.

Sigfus is 6'6" and weighs about 250 lbs. It's a shame he had to sell his silver medal because of debts and addiction issues. But anyway, back to the point.



Torgovanov was similar.

I think this is the blueprint for the future:

- An incredibly tall and bulky goalkeeper (the Japanese might even recruit a Sumo wrestler).

- An incredibly tall and bulky pivot. Any attempt to defend them would look like two little Capuchin monkeys trying to stop a grizzly bear. I mean, the outcome is obvious; no deep analysis required.

- More frequent "accidental" shoving of the defensive duo. If everyone just managed to pull off 7 or 8 shoves per game, everything would work itself out. A total domino effect: anger, rage, violence, obvious hits—but most importantly, it would absolutely wreck their concentration.

Germany is out.