Blue Paw" PDF Auctions

Dear Admins,
Since the moderators have been dragging out every single question regarding the Auction since early May, I believe it's long overdue for the admins to step in and finally establish clear rules (rules that have actually already been established), yet the moderator fermina-daza still insists on changing them!

So here we go again—preparing for an Auction without clear guidelines, dealing with constant changes...
A fellow forum member asks a question only to receive an answer that contradicts the existing rules—rules that haven't even been officially updated (at least, there’s no clear record of any changes)!
The notice simply says: Changes to Auction organization

We can be patient about delays, sure, but we won't tolerate this five-month stalemate where users are ignored, and whenever anyone asks for clarity, they just get handed red cards and met with arrogance instead of progress!

It should be obvious why the "Blue Paw" PDF exists—it was created for exactly this reason, though its purpose is being undermined by this chaos

Let's be real: some moderators clearly don't want to deal with Auctions, others don't know how, and some can't even manage to upload a basic photo, BUT that does NOT give them the right to sabotage the work of Associations and activists!

The people protected by many Associations and activists depend on the funds raised through these Auctions.

I hope this Auction mess gets cleared up quickly so we can actually get back to work.

We already sent our concerns via private message to Dorian.Gray, Nica, and Michelle Evans—but unfortunately, there was zero response, so we are deeply hoping for one now and for the finalization of clear rules!

And now, once again, we're starting auction prep with no clear rules in place!

Every time a moderator who actually knew how to run things and follow the rules moves on, a new one steps in, tries to change everything, and the whole process drags on indefinitely...

Regards,

.

Hey Rina!

I've read through the appeal. I'll get back to you regarding it later today, most likely by this afternoon. Please bear with me just a little longer...

Best,

Michelle Evans, hey! Thanks for reaching out!

We’ve got patience. We just need everything laid out clearly in black and white once and for all.

The rules need to be crystal clear across the board. I don't want to be setting up an Auction for the Association myself only to have a moderator changing things or shifting goalposts without any prior agreement.

Best,
.

Kenneth Ross8 said:Dear Admins,
Since the moderators seem to be dragging out every single question about the Auction... The start of May...I honestly feel it’s long overdue for the admins to step up and finally establish some clear rules...Which ones have already been decided......but the moderator, Fermina Daza, handles them... He really does want to make a change...!

Regarding the Auctions, the only thing that’s actually changed is who manages them. It's no longer the moderators... Their specific role has already been laid out in the main thread... Auctions — registrations, announcements, and item collection...:

I haven't seen much from this user yet... perhaps more to come... says:
The moderators are here to offer guidance or step in once you've spent ninety minutes tinkering with a post and realized it's beyond saving... They also ensure that every Auction stays strictly within the rules.

This is an excerpt from a post titled... There's going to be a change in how we handle the Auctions... All the changes are listed right there. Aside from that, nothing is shifting in the rules that have been in place since early 2014. These updates will be integrated into the official guidelines as well, which was already covered in the announcement regarding the upcoming Auction...post)

This isn't exactly a groundbreaking change, since that option was already available when setting up an Auction, just like it says in the current rules you linked here...

Just a quick note to clarify—all changes are made through mutual agreement. No moderator makes a call on their own without consulting the group first. Your comment suggesting that fermina-daza wants to change things implies these updates are just her acting on a whim. They aren't...

Here we go again, starting preparations for an Auction without any clear rules or updates in place...

It’s all quite clear. As previously mentioned in the thread, the changes are happening within a specific segment...

I've noticed one thing that isn't quite so easy to overlook...

The moderator asked your Association and one of our members back on October 5th to coordinate which Auction would go first and let her know. You guys didn't even touch base on this until yesterday, the 12th. It just strikes me that all this talk about "urgency" you constantly mention—linking it to the hunger of those you support—doesn't really match up with how you actually act... So, please, let's skip the emotional provocations in future discussions. We can settle these things professionally and constructively without the drama, which I think would work better for everyone involved...

The bids haven't been moving since May, as you can see over in the Auction thread...
One of our moderators stepped down back in June. Because of some personal stuff happening IRL, the other two team members weren't able to pick up the slack by the end of the month... Since our mods are all volunteers, their lives outside the site always come first. We officially updated everything at the end of June... Just a quick heads-up... It looks like there won't be any further Auctions held, which honestly makes sense... Per the rules, there won't be any Auctions held during July or August...

The first inquiry was submitted on September 12th, and we already provided a response...

Things slowed down for a bit because the moderators were tied up cleaning up some inappropriate content on the forum, so please accept my apologies for that. But there really isn't any truth to the claim that posts have been sitting unanswered since May... as you can clearly see...

Just browsing... Please enter your prompt... And then the response comes in... Breaking the rules... None of them have changed, at least as far as I can tell... nothing clearly indicates any updates were made...

I’m having a hard time seeing how these two things connect... Could someone link me to a post where different photos of the exact same item are labeled A, B, C, and D? Yesterday we were talking about a single photo featuring several distinct objects marked with letters. Two completely separate items. Besides, the moderator already gave her a very clear answer right here...
What exactly is out of alignment with the rules...
I don't see anything regarding that in the rules updated on January 1st, 2014. There is just a note at the end stating that users should contact moderators for any ambiguities... since things were clearly unclear here, the moderator stepped in to clarify...

We can be understanding about delays regarding the Auction, but we simply cannot—and will not—be understanding when the whole process drags on for over five months...

Actually, it hasn't been five months. It’s all explained above, and you can see the details right there in the Auction thread...

It feels like our community members get ignored most of the time, yet the moment someone asks a question, they start handing out red cards...

If you're referring to your record from September 18th, you didn't receive it because of the inquiry itself. I would kindly ask that you don't present it that way...

Still no movement on this, unfortunately...

Regarding the claims about inaction or stalling, the facts just don't support that conclusion. Preparations for the Auction kicked off this past Saturday, and we expect things to get moving either tonight or tomorrow... 👍

We are all well aware that some moderators simply don't want to deal with Auctions, or perhaps they just don't know how—even basic things like uploading an image to a thread... But that certainly doesn't give them the right to sabotage the work of our Associations and activists...

Moving forward, I kindly ask that we avoid this kind of disrespectful tone and speculation. It’s impossible to have a constructive conversation at this level, and I believe staying productive is in everyone's best interest...

We sent over the issues regarding the Auction via private message to Dorian, Gray, and Michelle Evans—but unfortunately, there was no response...

Just a quick follow-up on this. Someone reading this might assume you sent us direct inquiries and that no one responded, but that isn't the case. You simply included us as CCs on your correspondence with the moderator, which was triggered by the notification about that aforementioned card. In that message to her, you stated you'd start a thread here because you couldn't reach an agreement. As the moderators of this forum—myself as the site super-moderator and Kenneth Ross8 as the administrator—we have no issue with that. That is exactly what this forum is for, and we expected you to bring your specific questions here. You weren't actually asking any of us for a statement in that email. I can happily copy and paste the entire exchange if necessary...

I should also clarify who handles the Pet forum so you know exactly who to contact. The colleague you included in your email isn't involved with that section at all, so they won't be able to help much. I manage the Smod forum. Of course, you can always reach out to the site administrator, Kenneth Ross8, as well...

You can find the list of super-moderators here; it's updated regularly and should be useful to you...

So now the Auction preparations are starting without any clear rules!

I hope everything is clear now and that our future interactions will be smooth...

Kenneth Ross8 said:The rules are straightforward across all sections. When I'm personally setting up an Auction for the Association, I don't want a moderator making changes or shuffling things around without us being on the same page first...

A moderator can edit a post to make it easier to read—things like fixing typos or adding line breaks. Just cosmetic stuff. The actual content stays exactly the same.

Michelle Evans, thanks for the reply.

We’ll definitely reach out tomorrow. It’s way too late now after such a grueling day.
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Understood. I'm here if you have any other questions or need anything at all.

I see the Auction has already kicked off while we were talking. You're up next on the list, too. Wishing you the best of luck with your bidding and a smooth experience with the moderators...

Michelle Evans said:Regarding the Auctions, the only thing that changed is who hosts them. It’s not the moderators anymore. Their role is clearly outlined in the Auctions - listings, announcements, and item collection thread:

Partially correct
'' 6 - An Auction can be hosted by the Association or a private individual—like a Blue Paw protector or whatever. Moderators still have the duty of maintaining auction integrity, guiding bids, and creating the FINAL SETTLEMENT of bidding, while the current status during the auction itself can be managed by the auctioneer alone.''

Based on that Rule, auctions could have continued perfectly fine in this order!
Basically, the other mod just needed to 'keep' the reins under control, just like they do whenever any topic is opened!

Michelle Evans said:Just a quick note—all changes are made through consultation. No single moderator makes decisions unilaterally without checking in. Your comment implying that fermina-daza wants to change things suggests her whims are driving these shifts. They aren't.

Michelle Evans, your comment implies we have an issue with fermina-daza, which isn't true.
But if she actually sent a message, read it, and responded, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Or is the solution to just attach a Smod PDF everywhere?

Michelle Evans said:I'd like to point out one rather glaring thing.

The Moderator asked your association and a forum member back on October 5th to coordinate on whose auction would go first and let us know. You didn't show up until yesterday, October 12th. I'm just pointing out the impression this gives: the "emergency" you constantly cite (linking it to your rescues starving and needing forum auctions) doesn't match your actual behavior. So, please, spare us the emotional provocations in the future. Cooperation can be handled professionally and constructively without the drama, which I believe will work out better for everyone.

The Moderator made the request only after the mods finally reached an agreement among themselves (why "finally"? because I only see fermina-daza moderating)
That doesn't mean the timing works for us or anyone else. That's why we were 'making noise' whenever we had a free moment to do so.
Here’s where things stand right now. As much as we need that Auction to happen, I have to prioritize moving all 36 animals into their new housing by November 1st. Trying to prep the Auction at the same time would absolutely kill me, and frankly, I just can't afford to burn out like that.
Look, I’ll just lay it out straight right now: we can't make it happen until mid-November. Unfortunately.

If you guys at Smod actually bothered to read the "Rightful Paw" PDF more closely, you'd realize that every single issue listed there is critical. It’s urgent. Things are bad. I don't trust anyone enough to believe they're just playing with people's emotions out of boredom or because they have nothing better to do with their lives!
I believe that if a thread starter claims they’ve just saved some animal, they’re suddenly the only one qualified to judge what constitutes an emergency. It's always like that. In this whole situation involving Kenneth Ross8, I’m the one stuck playing judge over who actually needs help and who doesn't. It's a thankless job, frankly. But let’s be real: if I didn't know how to actually talk to people, this Association wouldn't have any decent volunteers, any donors, or any actual results to show for its work.

And yeah, we were completely out of cat food back then. We didn't mention that at the time, but if we had, kindhearted people would've seen the post and stepped up with donations. Because of that, Rina has been all set for about two months now. 🙂

This might sound like a massive generalization, but it’s the truth...

Michelle Evans said:The bids haven't been moving since May. Just look at the Auction thread.
One moderator stepped down in June. The two remaining staff members couldn't step up to cover the workload before the end of the month due to some stuff happening IRL.

I already replied at the top of this thread!

Michelle Evans said:The moderators here are volunteers. Their private lives always come first. At the end of June, they set... Notice. It looks like there won't be any more Auctions held. Honestly, that’s just how things go. Per the rules, there won't be any Auctions during July or August.
The first inquiry was filed on September 12th. It was answered.

We’re volunteers too. We don't even know where our private lives end and this starts anymore—and honestly, that’s on us. No one is out to get us. But if you can't be bothered to read a message for a month, two, or three... then what exactly are you doing in a moderator position?

Taking on the role of a moderator is a conscious decision. You have to know exactly what you're getting into. A moderator's duties aren't a mystery—you should know them inside and out before stepping up.
How much time does that actually take?

Michelle Evans said:Things stalled for a bit because all the moderators were busy scrubbing inappropriate content from the forum. My apologies for that. But let’s be clear: there is absolutely no truth to the claim that posts have been sitting unanswered since May. You can see for yourselves.

Michelle Evans, we aren't asking for apologies. We want moderator action. It doesn't have to be this second, but if you can handle the trolling, then you can handle responding to a post or an inquiry on a thread!

Michelle Evans said:I don't see how those two things are even related. Send me a link to a post where different photos of the exact same item are labeled A, B, C, D, etc. Yesterday was about one single photo containing various items labeled with letters. Two completely different situations. And the moderator gave that user a very clear answer.
What part of that violates the rules?
I don't see anything regarding this in the rules from January 1st, 2014. I see a note at the end saying to contact moderators for any ambiguities; clearly, there was some ambiguity here, and the moderator provided clarification.

It absolutely relates. Dat provided a clear example of how items with lower starting bids were handled. For instance, look at $1.75, $3.25. You just need to look closely.

Michelle Evans said:So, it hasn't been 5 months. It’s been explained above and is visible in the Auction thread.
If this is about your card from September 18th, you didn't receive it because of an inquiry as such, and I would kindly ask you not to frame it that way.

Regarding the claims of ignoring people or stalling, the facts simply don't support those conclusions. The Auction preparations started Saturday, and it will go live either tonight or tomorrow. 👍

In the future, please refrain from this rude tone and making things up. Constructive communication isn't possible at this level. And I believe constructive dialogue is in everyone's best interest.

The main thing is that the Auctions have finally started.
I trust everything else will eventually fall into place.

Michelle Evans said:Just a quick correction on this. Someone reading this might think you submitted specific inquiries and that no one responded. That wasn't the case. You looped us in as recipients of your correspondence with the moderator, which only happened as a response to the notification regarding the aforementioned card. In that message to her, you stated you would open a thread on this PDF because you couldn't find common ground. For us—as the moderators of this PDF, including myself as the Super Moderator of the KLJ and Nica as the Administrator—that is perfectly fine. We have no issue with it because that is exactly what this PDF is for, and we expected you to do exactly that: bring your specific questions here. You weren't asking for a statement from us in that message. I can easily copy-paste the entire message if necessary.

We aren't complaining about the card itself, but rather everything else mentioned above.

Michelle Evans said:I just need to clarify who handles requests for extra assistance. I'm the one responsible for the Smod PDF. You can also always reach out to the forum admin (Nice).

Here is the list of supermoderators, which gets updated regularly and should be useful to you.

Thanks 🙂

Michelle Evans said:I hope everything is cleared up now and there won't be any issues in future collaborations.

Look, to avoid all this "philosophizing" and nitpicking, can we get some clear rules written down somewhere? Something pinned at the top in one place, like this?
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Michelle Evans said:Moderators have the right to edit posts however they see fit to improve readability (fixing typos, adding line breaks, etc.). Cosmetic changes only. Content remains untouched.

Fine by me. That can be clearly defined if actual changes were made here too.

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Michelle Evans said:Fine. I'm available if you have more questions or need anything else.

Thanks, 🙂
From here on out, we're always available whenever you need help.

Michelle Evans said:I see the Auction has already kicked off in the meantime. You're up next. Good luck with the auction and hope everything goes smoothly with the moderators.

🎉
Now the little birds are going to have a feast. 🙂

Due to urgent priorities, we'll have to push to November.
We have to relocate 36 units. 😢
.

Kenneth Ross8 said:That’s partially correct
'' 6 - Both the association and private individuals—like a local security guard or similar—can host and manage an auction. Moderators are responsible for maintaining order, guiding bids, and preparing the FINAL ACCOUNTING, while the auctioneer handles the current status during the event itself.''

Yes, just as I mentioned earlier, having someone else run the auction isn't anything new; it was always an option. Now, it's simply the only way forward.

According to the rules provided, these auctions could have easily continued this way!
Essentially, a second moderator just needed to 'keep' things under control, much like they do whenever any other thread is opened.

No. Given the circumstances, nothing could have been done, especially since I didn't see anyone step up and volunteer to handle this between May 29th and June 24th. If there were private discussions happening behind the scenes via DM, I wouldn't be aware of them. I can only speak to what happened in the public thread.

I touched on this in a previous post, but their personal circumstances at the time were completely valid. Moderators can't be in two places at once, and if real-life obligations prevent them from being online, the priority shifts to the bare essentials: checking for inappropriate posts and moderating if necessary. That's all. Those are the priorities, and while you might not agree, they aren't going to change...

Look, you're mentioning your own commitments and suggesting you'd work yourselves to death trying to prep an auction alongside such a stressful period. It would be helpful to realize that just as you can't always get things done due to forces beyond your control, moderators can't always be available immediately for the same reason. That's what happened here. If you can't be flexible about this, cooperation will be difficult...

Michelle Evans, your comment makes it sound like we have something against Fermin-Daza, which isn't true.

My comment was meant to explain how the moderation team operates. That's the only purpose of my remark. Whether you personally have an issue with someone or not is entirely up to you, and frankly, it doesn't concern me...

But it would have been fine if she had just sent a message, read it, and replied—that would have prevented these situations.
Or is the solution to include the Democratic Party PDF everywhere?

Yes, of course. If you can't reach an agreement with a moderator for any reason, reach out to the super-moderator; that practice applies to all PDFs. More than a year ago, someone using this profile actually started...regarding this PDF about the role of the Democratic Party. I mentioned before that you are more than welcome to reach out to me directly. That offer still stands... If you can't find common ground with a moderator, come to me instead. I'll look into it. There's no need to wait weeks or months...

The moderator was asking when they would finally coordinate amongst themselves (why "amongst themselves"? It's simple—it looks like only one person is actually moderating here)

Just because one moderator is visible doesn't mean the others aren't active. And visibility doesn't equal decision-making power. That isn't how it works...

Generally speaking, if the Democratic Party followed the "Blue Paw" PDF a bit more closely, they’d realize every single topic there is vital and urgent...

Well, for starters, I follow things closely enough to know the PDF is actually titled Blue Paw... 😁

On a serious note, you have no way of knowing how much I monitor things, so please don't try to guess. And you certainly shouldn't present those assumptions as facts...

We are volunteers too, and we don't know where private life ends and this begins—it's our own fault, and no one is pointing fingers at anyone else for that. But if you can't even read a message for a month or three, what are you even doing in a moderator position!?!?

One takes on the role of a moderator consciously, fully aware of the duties involved!
It takes up quite a bit of time.

It isn't your place to judge how much time moderation takes, and unless you hold a moderator position on this forum, you don't truly know the responsibilities. Making comments like that is incredibly rude. And if you intend to resolve matters with me in the future, my friendly advice is to avoid such remarks...

As for the moderators, from what I understand, they do read messages; they just don't respond if a post is inflammatory or disrespectful. I'm not saying yours was, I'm just explaining why they might stay silent. Sometimes a message doesn't even go through due to server errors. It's rare, but it happened to me just the other day...

Whatever the reason, if there hasn't been a response after several days, feel free to contact me. You don't need to wait months...

If this issue is still pending, we can move to private messages so I can see what's going on...

Michelle Evans, we aren't looking for an apology, we just want the moderators to take action.

I offer apologies because I believe it's necessary if someone was wronged, not simply because someone demands it. In this instance, we asked the moderators to focus on other matters, which caused some delays in September, so an apology and an explanation are warranted...

It’s definitely relevant. It serves as a clear example of how cases with lower starting bids have been handled before. For instance, look at $1.75, $3.25. You just have to look closely...

I still don't see how this relates to the original question asked by the user, since she was asking about something else entirely.

Can you be specific about what's wrong with the answer? Is she asking if it counts as one item, or if it counts as multiple items if there are various different things shown in the photo?
The response given was this:

Michelle Evans said:If they are being sold 'as a set,' then it's one item.
If they are being sold individually, they need separate photos—meaning, 6 items.

At this point, I'm just guessing, and if I try to guess and get it wrong, we're just wasting everyone's time...

We aren't complaining about the platform itself, but rather everything mentioned above.

I don't think you're complaining. I'm simply correcting you so it's clearer what (wasn't) actually requested from the site administrators you mentioned.

To avoid any 'philosophizing' or 'arguing,' could there be a place where clear rules are written out, perhaps pinned at the top in one spot like this?
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Yes, of course. The rules won't be buried within a thread; they will be in a highly visible location. That has already been coordinated with the moderators.