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United Kingdom as a collective topic?

Started by urbanorca · · 👁 4 views · 18 replies

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Participants urbanorcaSusan Price30hollowtrucker77slybison8Richard Wilson4Drew Brooks8
urbanorca urbanorca MemberOP
48 messages
joined Jan 2012
#1 ·
I think this is a mistake. Dumping everything about the UK under one collective thread? Come on. That country is a major player on the global stage, and they’re especially important to the US. It seems like people on this forum just ignore it whenever a major power gets lumped into some generic category.
Susan Price30 Susan Price30 Regular
304 messages
joined Feb 2017
#2 ·
urbanorca said:I think this is a mistake. Grouping everything regarding the United Kingdom under one collective thread doesn't work; that nation is far too significant on the global stage, and particularly vital to the interests of America. It seems like forum members tend to ignore news when major countries are tucked away in a collective topic.

I'm just not sure... if we follow this logic, any news at all—even the smallest update—will end up dumped into that collective thread without its own dedicated topic and maybe just two or three replies. 😉It would all land in the subforum meant for World events, which makes it feel irrelevant to any other nation, since often these things don't impact anyone else anyway. Isn't there a specific main subforum designed exactly for those kinds of things?
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#3 ·
So, what exactly makes the United Kingdom such a big deal for America?
Susan Price30 Susan Price30 Regular
304 messages
joined Feb 2017
#4 ·
p.s. My only real concern is whether a massive, breaking news story might get buried under a mountain of random posts. For instance, if the Queen were to fall seriously ill and withdraw from public life back in 2013... or if the Republican Party were to fracture following a massive scandal—both of which are being whispered about unofficially right now—would such an event warrant its own dedicated thread, or should it just stay tucked away within the chaos of the Collective thread?
Susan Price30 Susan Price30 Regular
304 messages
joined Feb 2017
#5 ·
hollowtrucker77 said:Why would the United Kingdom be particularly important to America?

Because of the European Union.😍>
slybison8 slybison8 Active Member
162 messages
joined Oct 2011
#6 ·
PDF World will likely need a complete overhaul over the next six months. All member states within the European Union will gradually be assigned Collective topics, and I sincerely hope the Administration will grant our request to separate all those themes into a new PDF European Union by July 1st, 2013. To make the transition and redistribution of topics from the current PDF World smoother, I suppose we should begin synthesizing them now, so that both our users and our servers can handle the shift during the night between June 30th and July 1st more easily.

I have a few other thoughts regarding how PDF World and PDF European Union might function in the future; I plan to present them soon to start a public discussion, and I am hopeful that the community might help refine them and make them even better.

PL
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#7 ·
Quick question, is this thread also tied into the whole Scotland independence thing?
slybison8 slybison8 Active Member
162 messages
joined Oct 2011
#8 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:I suppose the question is, is the topic of Scottish independence also connected?

Not really. I haven't really linked Scotland or Catalonia to the United Kingdom or Spain so far, and I probably won't either, I guess.

PL
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#9 ·
slybison8 said:Nah. I haven't really linked Scotland or Catalonia with the United Kingdom or Spain yet. Probably won't either.

PL

Got it, thanks. 🙂

PS
We're gonna need this topic again in 2014 if we end up having one for every single state anyway. 😉

Stay safe out there and good luck with the new one.
Susan Price30 Susan Price30 Regular
304 messages
joined Feb 2017
#10 ·
We'll probably need to revisit this topic in 2014 anyway if we end up having a separate entity for every single state.

The thing is, based on all the actual indicators and data out there, I don't see Scotland actually getting its "own state" in 2014.

....and frankly, your constant spinning of this issue on the subforum has become exhausting for everyone involved, I guess...
urbanorca urbanorca MemberOP
48 messages
joined Jan 2012
#11 ·
Look, if I can chime in here, I honestly think it’s a mistake when certain major players try to lump everything under a Collective umbrella. Take the United Kingdom, for example—it's a perfect case in point. Discussion just dies out. Everything hits a standstill. If someone actually takes the time to start a meaningful thread, and then a bunch of other random topics pop up right after, it becomes impossible to follow the original conversation. It’s just a total mess. No cohesion, no flow, nothing.
Drew Brooks8 Drew Brooks8 Active Member
115 messages
joined Aug 2016
#12 ·
urbanorca said:Look, if I can weigh in here, I really think it’s a mistake when certain major countries get lumped into a Collective category. Take the United Kingdom, for instance—the discussion just dies. Everything freezes up. If someone actually tries to start a meaningful thread, a few other topics pop up and suddenly everything is a mess. It’s impossible to follow the original point because there's zero cohesion.

I'm right there with you. Honestly, I think these Collective threads are going to kill any real debate. They make the whole discussion feel sterile, and eventually, people just stop caring and check out.🤷
urbanorca urbanorca MemberOP
48 messages
joined Jan 2012
#13 ·
Drew Brooks8 said:I’m on the exact same page here. Honestly, I think these collective threads are going to absolutely kill the discussion. It just makes everything feel sterile, you know? It sucks the life out of it. Once you do that, people are just going to stop caring and lose interest entirely. Why even bother?🤷

I'm 100% with you on this. We used to have some killer discussions over on the Politics Forum, but now? Because of this "Collective" nonsense, it’s all gone down the drain. Honestly, it wasn't exactly a genius move. If the goal was to completely wreck the forum, then mission accomplished.
slybison8 slybison8 Active Member
162 messages
joined Oct 2011
#14 ·
urbanorca said:If I may say so once more, I feel there is something fundamentally wrong when certain major nations choose to act only through Collective action. A good example would be the United Kingdom, though I suppose the discussion surrounding it has almost entirely ceased; everything just seems to have stalled. When someone does attempt to initiate an important topic, and then a few other threads follow, it becomes quite difficult to respond to that original point because everything turns into such a muddle, lacking any real sense of cohesion.

Drew Brooks8 said:I find myself agreeing with that sentiment; I suppose there is a risk that collective topics might end up stifling the conversation, making everything feel rather sterile and perhaps causing members to lose interest.🤷

First, I suppose I should let you all know that what you're seeing right now is... PDF World It seems more like a transitional step rather than a definitive, final solution.

I suppose this reorganization is necessary right now because we’ll be launching a new sub-forum soon, where we plan to move some of our current collective threads.

Secondly, I don't really agree with the idea that the discussion has been "killed off." In fact, since the transition began on PDF World about a month ago, there have been quite a few discussions popping up regarding many different countries and various parts of the world that we just didn't see much talk about before.

urbanorca, you actually started one of these yourself regarding that "impoverished Uruguayan president." I suppose the reason that particular thread, along with others like those covering Nigeria, Ireland, South Africa, Tatarstan, or even the Czech Republic—which brought in several users living in the Czech Republic whom we hadn't even realized were part of our community—proved so successful was because the systematization of collective topics allowed them to hold space on the front page. It seems this provided room for other discussions to emerge, which previously might have been quickly swept away by the constant influx of topics concerning Israel, Palestine, the United Kingdom, Germany, and the European Union.

I feel that PDF World is already offering a much broader range of topics for discussion, and it seems significantly less focused on European affairs than it was previously. It also appears to me that there has been a positive shift in the number of active members, as I have noticed a whole series of new usernames participating in discussions that I hadn't encountered before, which I find particularly pleasing.

I am hopeful that by February 1st, or perhaps by next weekend at the latest, I might be able to move forward into the second phase of the reform. This stage would involve a public discussion regarding the proposed changes—which I intend to present as another featured topic—and I sincerely hope, and perhaps expect, that you will all contribute your positive perspectives to that conversation.

I guess I should express my gratitude to Barack Obama for his interest and for his steady participation in the discussions here on PDF World. 🙂

slybison8
urbanorca urbanorca MemberOP
48 messages
joined Jan 2012
#15 ·
Thanks, but I’m gonna have to disagree with you on using a Collective approach for the big players. The Czech Republic is a whole different story, but hey, good luck. Let's see how this actually plays out.
slybison8 slybison8 Active Member
162 messages
joined Oct 2011
#16 ·
urbanorca said:Thank you, though I suppose I don't quite agree with your perspective regarding the Collective approach for major powers; the Czech Republic is a different matter entirely, but I wish you luck, and we shall see how things unfold.


Yes. That seems to be a fundamental conceptual difference. I generally don't believe in categorizing nations as more or less important than others, and I try to treat them all with equal weight whenever it is practical to do so. However, if it becomes necessary here on this forum, I tend to prioritize those that are vital to the interests of America. The United Kingdom performs quite well in that regard, though there are several other nations that might be even more critical to America's future than the United Kingdom is.
Susan Price30 Susan Price30 Regular
304 messages
joined Feb 2017
#17 ·
If this sub-forum is dedicated to events happening in the World , what kind of connection could they possibly have with America?

Isn't there an entire primary forum for that? The PDF World section exists specifically because it shouldn't necessarily be dealing with those matters—or at least, shouldn't theoretically be.

(Especially if there’s going to be yet another sub-forum, as you mentioned above, that might eventually focus on European Union nations.)

The United Kingdom is doing quite well here, but there are several other players far more vital to the future of America than the UK.

Should the topics on the PDF World forum even be addressing that?
urbanorca urbanorca MemberOP
48 messages
joined Jan 2012
#18 ·
slybison8 said:
Yeah, that’s a fundamental difference right there. Personally, I don't really buy into the whole idea that some countries matter more than others. As far as I'm concerned, I try to treat them all with the same level of importance whenever possible. But look, let's be real—if I have to prioritize certain topics here on this Forum, I'm going to focus on the players that actually impact the future of America. Sure, the United Kingdom is a heavy hitter, but there are a handful of other nations that are way more vital to our long-term interests than the UK could ever be.

slybison8, look, don't go thinking I'm just sitting here trying to act like a big shot or enjoying the chance to tear things down.
The changes made just a month ago were a massive mistake, collectively speaking. The discussion here is dead. You can’t even hold a real debate anymore like we used to. The proof is right there in the numbers—look at the low engagement on threads about major global powers. You claim there aren't any "important" countries and that everyone is basically on the same level? Give me a break. That's just not how it works. Look at the United Nations Security Council; some nations clearly carry more weight than others. For instance, you could spin off ten different threads a week about the United Kingdom or stuff tied to America and easily pull in over a hundred people to argue. That’s just not happening with the Czech Republic. Even our neighbors, like Mexico, get plenty of traction and plenty of threads. It’s obvious.

Look, if something’s working perfectly fine—just like it was before—why mess with it? IMO, there’s zero reason to change things up unless it actually makes life easier for the moderators. Otherwise, leave it alone.
Drew Brooks8 Drew Brooks8 Active Member
115 messages
joined Aug 2016
#19 ·
slybison8 said: First off, let me be clear: what you’re looking at on PDF World is just a transition phase, not the final setup.

Right now, this restructuring is mandatory because we’re launching a new sub-forum soon, where some of the current collective threads will be moved.

Second: I disagree with the idea that discussion has been "killed off." In fact, since this "transition" kicked off on PDF World last month, we've seen debates explode regarding various countries and parts of the World that weren't even being talked about before.

In my view, PDF World already offers much more diverse discussion opportunities and is far less "Euro-centric" than it used to be. It actually feels like there's an upward trend in active users too; I'm seeing a whole string of new handles in the discussions that I haven't run into before—which, honestly, I'm pretty happy about.

My goal is to hit the second phase of these reforms by February 1st, or at the very latest, by next weekend. That phase will include a public discussion regarding the proposed changes—formatted as another top-level thread. I’m hoping for, and expecting, your positive input during that public forum.

Thanks to Barack Obama for the interest and for staying active in the discussions here on PDF World. 🙂

PL

P.L. 🙂Look, the fact that you're trying to fix up this PDF is commendable, because let's face it—this PDF is half-dead, if it ever truly lived. My take? All these collective threads just make things easier to browse; they don't actually increase the number of topics, posts, or active users.
As for the end goal... I have no clue.
Remember the old ex-Yugoslavia forum? That PDF had 253,000 posts when it finally shut down. It was packed with all sorts of topics and debates—God, I remember how many threads there were just about Canada alone. 🙂 That forum was supposed to merge with the World section, and it did via these collective threads, but now user traffic is tiny. We aren't seeing the old-school debates anymore; we get maybe a few posts a day, and that's it.

My opinion is that PDF World needs to open up. Let people start specific, engaging threads. With everything happening in the World right now 🤷, we shouldn't be suffocating the site with these collective threads. 🙂

Anyway, let's see this new concept of yours. I'm curious to see how it turns out. Good luck.

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