Nicholas King said:Do you happen to have at least five or six discussion topics tucked away in your sleeve that would only truly make sense within the context of that specific PDF? 😕
Ultimately, this comes down to the atheists rather than the theists. In truth, even those with religious beliefs are perfectly free to initiate topics that might primarily invite discussion with the atheists, should they find something interesting to explore. Personally, I believe that opening up this PDF—and perhaps even creating another one—would actually foster much higher quality discussions. It would lead to clearer rules and better overall organization within the document. I suspect it would minimize the confusion we see now and curb the number of "free riders" who jump onto almost every single thread just to repeat the same tired arguments. Honestly, it’s been getting quite tedious; this repetitive cycle has been dragging on for over a year now, though I suppose that's just how things go. 🙂
Brenda Cook4 said:Generally speaking, on most online forums that aren't strictly religious in nature, you'll find atheists participating quite frequently—often sparking discussions exactly like the one we have here in this PDF. This brings me to my question: do you believe atheists should be banned from a dedicated religion sub-section on a secular forum, like the ones found on Reddit or similar large US message boards, simply because they don't subscribe to a faith?
Actually, that isn't my point at all. What I am suggesting is that we establish a dedicated space where we can engage in more serious, high-quality discussions regarding theistic and atheistic topics. From an administrative standpoint, it would be much more organized and efficient to manage; having a specific section allows for much clearer guidelines than what we currently have in place. I don't view this as some sort of crackdown or a way to ban anyone—I simply see it as a practical improvement for the forum's structure.
I am making a public pledge right now: I will never post on this entire forum again if you—or anyone else here—insists that starting a new PDF thread would somehow constitute banning an atheist from the Religion subforum. Furthermore, I will step away permanently if there is any belief that opening an Atheism thread would lead to such an outcome. In my view, any rational atheist should have plenty of meaningful things to discuss with a theist.
On the other hand.In my view, creating separate subforums would actually foster much more mutual respect—something that is clearly lacking right now. Not to mention it would help steer clear of some of the more intense, heated topics currently cluttering the Religion board. If you look at this from a purely sociological and practical standpoint, there isn't a single logical reason why we shouldn't have such a space. And I’m not just talking about atheists here; I mean all of us. As a moderator and administrator who has been deeply involved in studying religion for quite some time, I have yet to encounter a single constructive explanation—or "proof," if we want to use the lofty terminology often found on the Religion board—as to why we shouldn't implement additional subforums. Frankly, most of the opposition seems rooted in paranoia. There is this underlying fear among atheists regarding the potential dominance of theists, a worry that they might somehow "take over" the Religion board. To me, that strikes me as rather irrational. After all, the Religion board inherently belongs to the theists; they are the vast majority. What exactly could they possibly "take over"? 🤷
If this matters to you—and I suspect it might, especially regarding how we handle administration—I want to be clear: I am not suggesting that we remove the current moderators from the Religion section. Should a new PDF be opened, the existing team should stay put. However, I am strongly in favor of increasing our moderation staff. Honestly, I believe adding more hands on deck would benefit everyone here. To be perfectly clear, I have no issue with you remaining a moderator, nor with Ego or VeronikaN staying in their roles; what I am proposing is simply bringing in a few new people, who, if we are being honest, would be a massive help given the current circumstances.
When you say:
May I ask why you wouldn't just head over to a Christian forum where you could enjoy the company of like-minded people? Personally, I’ve never visited those types of forums, but that’s precisely why I am here on a secular one; I believe there should be no limits on what anyone can write anywhere (since atheists don't just stick to their own specific threads, but participate across the entire subforum).
Well, if you have never actually visited Christian forums populated by "like-minded people"—which is really just a tired internet cliché used by folks like Shady when they were attacking Christianity on Religion—then how can you possibly know that "like-minded people" are even there? 🤷 I truly wanted to ask you, quite sincerely, which Christian forums you have visited and which ones you have written on to know for certain that they consist of "like-minded people." 🙂 You see, I have posted on about fifteen different forums, including Reddit, various lifestyle blogs, news sites like CNN, and other highly secular platforms, but I have also participated in several Christian forums where I never encountered a single "like-minded" person. If what you say were true, such forums wouldn't even need to exist. It is simply a cliché, nothing more.
By the way, the Religion section won't become exclusively Christian even if atheists were to have their own dedicated subforum; it will remain the Religion section. Just as it is now, the demographics include roughly 10% Muslims, about 15% who hold personal spiritual beliefs (people who don't identify primarily as Christian or Muslim), at least 10% Muslims again, and about 40% Christians—which includes Protestants and Orthodox believers, not just Catholics. Atheists make up slightly less than 30%. Of course, if a specific "Christianity" subforum were opened, that would be a different story, but this section can never be "single-denomination" or anything similar, otherwise, it wouldn't be called Religion.
In principle, due to an aversion toward religion (perhaps specifically toward this Religion section), I feel it isn't feasible to add another subforum to Religion, though I understand the sentiment. There is a difference between saying "that is the forum policy," which I find to be a much more honest explanation, and attempting to "explain" why a certain subforum is *not* allowed on Religion. There isn't a single rational or logical reason to deny a subforum other than the one I mentioned. That is the most honest answer, even if it doesn't feel entirely fair. Ultimately, because the forum is privately owned, the owner or the administration has every right—if they insist—to create twenty subforums dedicated to black magic or witchcraft while abolishing, say, Sports or Religion. It is perfectly orderly and legitimate because a forum has its own concept, policy, and purpose. Therefore, no one has any grounds to complain; that is simply how it works.
Ultimately, given certain statements—much like the one I wanted to include in my signature—it might actually be useful to have a dedicated subforum where religion can be mocked or religious sentiments can be insulted. Up until now, this has almost always been permitted in the Religion section under the guise of "democracy" and "freedom of speech," but that is an oxymoron in itself. You cannot insult the views and feelings of the very community a subforum is dedicated to, no matter how much you disagree with them. What has happened in the Religion section over the years is the product of poor forum policy (though I think management needs to realize they should adjust their internal policies regarding Religion) and a certain bias from the moderators themselves—their aversion to religion, their mockery of it, and so on.
