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Involuntary commitment and forced treatment: what are my rights?

Started by slymaker24 · · 👁 5 views · 45 replies

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Participants slymaker24Scott Davis32Alexander Lewisstormymaker24jadesailor14Tyler Diaz4Amanda Morris3Terry Brooks3Carl Gray65ironbison23Roger Castillo4rapidcyclist87quietviper26Jessica Cox5Nicole Barrett76crimsoncyclist14wearysailor112Thomas MartinezKevin Garcia12feralharbor89nimblesailor85Tyler James5velvetmoose9Brandon Lopez6 …
slymaker24 slymaker24 NewcomerOP
1 message
joined Feb 2008
#1 ·
Urgent question here:

Does anyone know the actual process for getting someone with diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia—someone who’s already under legal guardianship because they can't manage their own affairs—committed to involuntary treatment? They're flat-out refusing all medication and therapy, and honestly, I'm starting to get really worried because they might become a danger to the people around them.

I would truly appreciate any advice or guidance you can offer!
Scott Davis32 Scott Davis32 Member
19 messages
joined Jan 2011
#2 ·
Honestly, I don't think there’s much of a choice in the matter... I've been through this firsthand with my brother, who lives with schizophrenia. We really only ever called for help when things reached a breaking point—you know, during those intense crises where the fighting becomes unbearable or he starts making threats. But what are you supposed to do when he's just a potential danger? I feel like it mostly comes down to how the hospital staff decides to handle it. But here's the catch: how do you actually get someone to comply? When the paramedics show up, he fights back, and they don't always have the tools to manage him alone. We went through this exact nightmare with my brother; he completely shut everyone out, retreated into his own world, and we were totally lost on what to do. Eventually, the police arrived with an ambulance crew, and somehow they managed to get him into the vehicle and off to the hospital, but man, it was absolute chaos... 🙄
Alexander Lewis Alexander Lewis Member
49 messages
joined May 2014
#3 ·
Are you suggesting he was just an inconvenience to them, so they slapped a mental health label on him, called in the cops, and hauled him off to an ER just to lock him up and medicate him into submission?
stormymaker24 stormymaker24 Active Member
98 messages
joined Sep 2008
#4 ·
The police and emergency services are, unfortunately, the only real options available. If you happen to know a competent psychiatrist, reach out to them immediately; perhaps they can intervene and coordinate someone to come collect him. In my experience, every single patient who has ever mentioned involuntary hospitalization has reported that the police arrived the very moment it became clear that something was wrong. Honestly, one can’t even be certain what those officers were actually doing during those intervals, because from their perspective, they weren't doing anything wrong at all.
Call 911 and request both medical and police assistance, making it explicitly clear that he poses a threat to himself, to you, and to others; if you do that, they will surely dispatch someone. Do not sit there waiting for the situation to turn violent.
jadesailor14 jadesailor14 Regular
314 messages
joined May 2006
#5 ·
Alexander Lewis said:Are you suggesting they just labeled him crazy because he was being a nuisance, then used the police to haul him off to an ER just to lock him up somewhere and medicate him into submission?


One more ridiculous comment and you're taking a little break for a few days!
Tyler Diaz4 Tyler Diaz4 Member
18 messages
joined Jun 2010
#6 ·
stormymaker24 said:The police and paramedics are unfortunately your only options. If you have access to a reliable psychiatrist, call them instead; they might be able to intervene and coordinate transport. In my experience, every patient I’ve spoken to who underwent involuntary commitment noted that the police arrived the moment it became clear things were spiraling. It is difficult to say exactly what the authorities do during those moments, as they generally feel their actions are justified.
Call emergency services and the police, and emphasize that there is an immediate threat to both the individual and yourself. Someone will respond. Do not wait for the situation to turn violent.

Unfortunately, it rarely works that way. If there isn't an immediate physical threat, neither the police nor EMS can force someone into treatment without risking a lawsuit.
Your best bet is to work with a primary care physician to prepare a referral and a transport order for the FBI. Since he isn't taking his medication, a relapse with acute schizophrenic symptoms is inevitable. Once that happens, you can call the police and emergency services.
I realize how grim that sounds, but it is the reality.
If a social worker is acting as the legal guardian, you could try coordinating with them, though I doubt much will come of it.
stormymaker24 stormymaker24 Active Member
98 messages
joined Sep 2008
#7 ·
I was completely unaware of those specific legal proceedings regarding involuntary commitment. 😲
However, the notion of essentially waiting for someone to spiral into a full-blown relapse before authorizing hospitalization is frankly appalling... it's just staggering. There is no such thing as a paranoid schizophrenic who won't eventually lash out at those around them, yet we sit idly by waiting for such tragedies to unfold... one can only imagine how many lives are needlessly sacrificed in the process. I am fully cognizant of the necessity to protect individual civil liberties—it is an incredibly delicate matter—but still...😕
That being said, my interpretation of the initial post was that a relapse had already occurred...🤷
Tyler Diaz4 Tyler Diaz4 Member
18 messages
joined Jun 2010
#8 ·
stormymaker24 said:I wasn't aware of the legalities regarding involuntary commitment. 😲
But essentially waiting for someone to reach a full relapse before hospitalization seems terrible... honestly, it's unbelievable. You have a schizophrenic individual who might suddenly lash out at those around them, yet we wait for such things to happen... think of how many people suffer. I realize we have to be careful about protecting civil liberties—it is a sensitive area—but still...😕
Though, from the initial post, I gathered that a relapse had already occurred...🤷


It did... but they hadn't endangered themselves or anyone else.

There is plenty of nonsense involved.
For instance, if a person goes on a hunger strike, you don't have the right to force them to eat, even as their vital signs begin to fail.
It's a similar situation; you have no authority to intervene until there is an immediate threat to others.
Scott Davis32 Scott Davis32 Member
19 messages
joined Jan 2011
#9 ·
Amy Turner22 said:[/B]

it... happened, but he wasn't endangering himself or anyone else

there's still a ton of nonsense going on
for instance, if someone goes on a hunger strike, you can't legally force them to eat even when their vitals are crashing
well, it's kind of the same thing—you aren't allowed to step in until they become a direct threat to others

But honestly, that's just nonsense; we’re hitting that massive gray area of morality here. When we called 911 and the paramedics, my brother was in a really dark place. He had completely checked out, wouldn't talk to anyone, and was barely eating—just enough to stay alive—while playing the same song on repeat on his CD player all day long. So, I have to ask: is it actually "humane" to just sit there and watch someone spiral deeper into hell right in front of us? 😢
And those geniuses who pushed this law through? If they think they can force someone into necessary medical treatment and then just shrug when that person sues them later, they clearly haven't spent a single second dealing with schizophrenia or anything similar. There absolutely has to be an exception clause! How can someone with schizophrenia be expected to have full agency over their own actions when their grasp on reality is totally broken?
Sorry if that sounded like I was coming for you personally—I'm not! I'm just incredibly frustrated by such a brainless law...
Tyler Diaz4 Tyler Diaz4 Member
18 messages
joined Jun 2010
#10 ·
Scott Davis32 said:That’s nonsense, and it brings us right to a moral crossroads. When we called 911 and the paramedics, my brother was in a terrible state; he had completely shut down, wouldn't communicate with anyone, and was eating just enough to survive while playing the same song on loop all day. I have to ask: is it truly humane to sit by and watch someone spiral into ruin right in front of us? 😢
As for the idiots who drafted such a law—where if you commit someone to necessary treatment against their will, they can just sue you afterward—I’d rather walk into the wilderness than deal with that. They clearly haven't dealt with schizophrenia or similar conditions. There simply needs to be an exception clause; when someone suffers from schizophrenia, their grasp on reality is broken, so how can they be expected to maintain autonomy over their own actions?
I apologize if that sounded like a personal attack; it wasn't. My frustration is directed at such a senseless law...


Unfortunately, I feel just as bitter.
Amanda Morris3 Amanda Morris3 Member
25 messages
joined Nov 2008
#11 ·
I honestly can't help but feel like Britney Spears might end up facing the exact same fate 😢
but I guess there isn't much anyone can do since you can't just force someone into a hospital if they don't want to go
Terry Brooks3 Terry Brooks3 Member
13 messages
joined Aug 2009
#12 ·
slymaker24 said:urgent question:

What's the protocol for getting someone with diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia—who’s already legally incapacitated and has a guardian—into involuntary treatment if they're refusing meds and starting to look dangerous to others?

Any advice is appreciated!

Like you probably know, you pretty much need the police involved to 👎

There's one other way that works, though it really depends on how much your brother trusts his doctor.

If he actually listens to his physician, try to convince him to go in for a consultation, ideally directly at the clinic. While you're doing that, coordinate with the doctor regarding an involuntary hold. You should also clear things with the officers who will be escorting you. If you can drive him there yourselves while having the police follow in another car, you might avoid making the whole situation more traumatic for him. They'll still file the paperwork for the involuntary commitment, but it feels less aggressive.

Of course, this entire plan hinges entirely on whether your brother is willing to sit down with his psychiatrist. Once he's actually on the unit, though...

Also, I'm pretty sure this only works if it's a formal hospital admission.

It's worth a shot since I assume everyone just wants to minimize the damage for your brother.
Terry Brooks3 Terry Brooks3 Member
13 messages
joined Aug 2009
#13 ·
I don't know why I thought we were talking about your brother... my bad.

Anyway, I'm not going to go back and edit the post now.
Carl Gray65 Carl Gray65 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Jan 2009
#14 ·
I live with my brother, who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, and he’s completely stopped taking his meds... things are spiraling out of control... last time, he nearly killed our younger brother... we called the police and they took him to the psychiatric ward... he was there for two weeks, then they just let him go because he seemed "fine"???!!!!! now, things have taken an even darker turn... I'm terrified for myself and for Mom... luckily, my younger brother doesn't live here... I honestly don't know what steps to take to get him help???? It feels like he's looking to kill us... I'm just exhausted... I don't have any fight left in me
ironbison23 ironbison23 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Feb 2009
#15 ·
My family is dealing with the exact same thing. Only, my brother hasn't even been officially diagnosed because getting him to see a psychiatrist is an impossible task.
He spends all day holed up in his room, then paces the house at night—banging on things, mumbling short, repetitive phrases like "living tree" over and over again.
Personal hygiene is non-existent; he doesn't shower, shave, or eat much of anything. There's also the aggression—we all have to walk on eggshells in our own home. He’s already trashed the lighting in our apartment building, knocked out part of a terrace wall, and ripped every single picture off the walls inside.
Sometimes he doesn't even seem to recognize me. He keeps his windows shut and lives in near-total darkness.
He's terrified of things on Jupiter—or something along those lines. He's always been "different," but these hallucinations started about six months ago, and it's spiraling daily.
I finally hit my breaking point—the constant anxiety and waiting for the next disaster was too much—so I moved out. Now it's just him and my mom. She barely sleeps.
The second she mentions a doctor, he starts practically screaming.

For context, my uncle has lived with schizophrenia for thirty years; he takes his meds and manages to function reasonably well.
But my brother? He's just wasting away. And he used to be the sharpest kid I knew—a total little genius.

How can I help him? How do we actually get him to a professional?
Carl Gray65 Carl Gray65 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Jan 2009
#16 ·
What you described is honestly terrifying because it hits way too close to home... My brother was always "different" growing up. Neither my younger brother nor I ever really felt that sense of closeness with him because of it. His condition surfaced when he was around 22 or 23, and he’s 30 now. My father also deals with schizophrenia, though his experience is completely different—he manages to function, thankfully, though he hasn't lived with us for 13 years. I’m genuinely scared that I might pass this burden onto my own children... I wouldn't even want them if it meant they had to suffer through this. I plan on talking to my brother's doctor to see what our options are... though I suspect there isn't much choice left other than calling the police to have him taken back to the psychiatric ward. The worst part is how they just sedate him with heavy meds... it's brutal. He’s never going to be able to hold down a job, and I can't just leave my mother alone with him. She shouldn't have to live in constant fear for her own safety...
Roger Castillo4 Roger Castillo4 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Jan 2009
#17 ·
My father deals with paranoid schizophrenia, and honestly, life at home has become an absolute nightmare because of it. We’ve been struggling just to keep our heads above water, though thankfully he finally agreed to see a psychiatrist and is currently on medication. It’s been this exhausting, repetitive cycle where he started on one pill three times a day and seemed fine for a few days, but then his condition would spiral again. So the doctor bumped him up to three pills three times a day, and for a little while, things stabilized—only for the whole mess to repeat itself. Now he’s on nine pills a day, and it’s always the same pattern. There is zero sense of normalcy in my house anymore; you can't even have a casual conversation without him twisting your words or misinterpreting everything you say. Things reached a terrifying breaking point recently when he nearly killed my mother. I guess I’m just wondering if there’s ever a way to actually cure this disease? Is he going to be tethered to these meds for the rest of his life? I’ve been reading through some of your previous posts here, and I really do get it... life just isn't fair sometimes.
stormymaker24 stormymaker24 Active Member
98 messages
joined Sep 2008
#18 ·
Regrettably, schizophrenia is a lifelong condition that does not simply vanish. What is actually possible is for your father to find the optimal cocktail of medications, allowing him to lead a seemingly normal life entirely free from symptoms. However, this is precisely where the trap lies, because many individuals mistakenly believe they have been cured and abruptly cease their medication, which inevitably triggers a massive relapse. And just like that, the entire cycle begins anew.
I am certain that this period is incredibly taxing, both for you personally and for your entire family. It is vital that you remain a pillar of support, ensuring he doesn't abandon his treatment plan, while simultaneously keeping a watchful eye on him—and, quite frankly, on yourself as well. I don't know which specialist he is seeing or where his clinic is located, but if his condition isn't improving despite the current prescription, you should absolutely push for a discussion regarding alternative medication options, or even seek out a second opinion from another psychiatrist. It will take significant time to stabilize his therapy and for him to fully commit to it. Furthermore, do not hesitate to seek psychological counseling for yourselves. And please, remember this: he will NEVER be "cured." You MUST NEVER allow him to stop taking his medication, even during those periods when he seems to be doing more than well.

Unfortunately, there isn't much else you can do at this stage. My best wishes to you.
Roger Castillo4 Roger Castillo4 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Jan 2009
#19 ·
So, I’ve gotta ask—is the rest of my family supposed to just walk on eggshells around him 24/7, or are we actually allowed to live our lives like normal people? Honestly, the stress levels in our house are through the roof right now. We're all constantly looking over our shoulders, terrified that if we say even one little thing, it’s going to trigger some massive, dramatic meltdown from him. It feels like we're living in a pressure cooker. Is there any realistic hope that he’ll ever just take a step back, look in the mirror, and realize he’s the one who messed up?
rapidcyclist87 rapidcyclist87 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Nov 2007
#20 ·
The only way you're getting someone forcibly hospitalized is if the cops or the paramedics show up because they’ve actually done something dangerous. 😢

Schizophrenia? Yeah, there's no cure for it. But look, a solid routine and hitting that sweet spot with the right meds can make someone totally functional. I had two people in my family dealing with it... one passed away about a year ago—may God rest his soul. With a wife who was pretty tough and the right cocktail of meds (I think it was Moditen and Metoten, if memory serves), he lived a completely normal life. The other guy also got himself sorted out with standard meds and top-tier psychiatric care, but man, the lack of drive is heavy. He basically just exists. In terms of logic and mental clarity, though? He's more sane than most people we call "normal." But... the spark is just gone.

You can't just pretend everything is fine. 😢 The human mind and brain? It's a messy, complicated, and honestly still baffling phenomenon.

Most people with schizophrenia are actually incredibly intelligent.

http://www.amazon.com/index.php...THE+BRAIN is an absolute must-read!

Family support, a psychiatrist who isn't a walking case study themselves, and the right mix of medication? That’s where the magic happens.

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