Gerald Smith76 said:Of course we respect everyone's perspective—that's the whole point of a discussion, right? Trying to explain our own views while listening to yours. Maybe you didn't express yourself perfectly because you're exhausted, which is totally fine! 😬
I think wre and nakitu gave some really great explanations here.
Let’s look at sports first; submission grappling, a Judo tournament, or even an American MMA match—in all of those, every participant knows a takedown is inevitable. Based on what you wrote, it sounds like you're suggesting takedowns won't happen at all!
Are you thinking about self-defense? Imagine being attacked by some kind of wrestler who, for some reason, isn't using strikes—if they manage to close the distance and get into contact before you can knock them out with a punch, you're in trouble. You aren't going to stop them unless you can take them down or at least neutralize them—unless, of course, you're just as experienced as they are. You see this clearly in those old-school "Vale Tudo" fights (I know it's a sport, but the comparison holds up)
Let me throw another analogy your way: imagine you cut off a pro driver or a street racer in a high-end car on a public road—someone who is highly trained and has top-tier equipment. If they chase you down because they were provoked and want to "settle the score," you're saying they'd lose to you regardless of their car or skill level just because they were baited and their adrenaline spiked? Well, that happens to them in every single race, and they're used to it.
You make some really strong points, and I definitely see where you're coming from.
But in your first section, you're talking specifically about organized competitions.
In those settings, you know exactly who your opponent is, what they're capable of, and you know they'll be looking to use takedowns rather than strikes.
On a random street corner, you have no idea who the person is or what they might do.
Sure, athletes in a ring are prepared for takedowns, but it's much more likely that if someone snaps and starts swinging wildly, they wouldn't defend themselves easily—they'd probably just get knocked out since they weren't expecting it.
Just as an example...
Everything else you said is actually very well-argued, and I honestly have to agree.
The only thing I’d add—looking back at your racing analogy—is that a public road is one thing, but a professional racetrack is something else entirely.
On a track, everyone is mentally prepared for high speeds, whereas on the street, you're dealing with slow drivers, stalled cars, and all sorts of unpredictability you'd never find on a circuit. Plus, I think you'll agree that no matter how skilled or trained someone is, those chaotic conditions increase the margin for error, and concentration inevitably slips.
And don't even get me started on a street fight! We all know that in a real-world scenario, you have to account for the entire environment—the attacker's crew, deciding which direction to throw a takedown so you don't hit a bystander, and all that stuff.
Everything else is pretty self-explanatory since I think you see where I'm heading with this, but seriously, kudos to you—you've argued your position beautifully, and I have to admit, you've helped clarify a few things for me.
