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Is the belt actually useful?

Started by Jonathan Johnson67 · · 👁 4 views · 13 replies

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Participants Jonathan Johnson67placidbison20wanderingridgeBrenda Adams4crimsonbison10coppermarlin6Larry Harris54dustywolf52Megan White4Jamie Fowler2
Jonathan Johnson67 Jonathan Johnson67 MemberOP
46 messages
joined Aug 2005
#1 ·
What’s actually the point of belt ranks in martial arts, and what does it take to earn one?

From what I've seen so far... it feels like every time someone tries to level up, they have to go out and break something, whether it's with a hand or a foot. Why is that such a big deal? And honestly, there's no fairness in it. It's way easier for a guy weighing 250 pounds to snap a board than someone sitting at 130. That lighter person might actually have much better technique, but it doesn't matter if the wood won't crack...

You see people chasing belts who can hit black belt status pretty fast, while the folks who actually just enjoy learning the craft might take much longer—even if they're technically much better at the actual art.
placidbison20 placidbison20 Active Member
197 messages
joined Jun 2010
#2 ·
It’s basically useless.
Other than maybe being used as a weapon.
wanderingridge wanderingridge Member
27 messages
joined May 2021
#3 ·
And why on earth are we so obsessed with just standing up and showing off? (smashing a board). Honestly, my grandmother could probably crack a board like that if she had half a decent grip.
In Taekwondo, you can sprint toward a black belt incredibly fast. You just grind through some forms, smash a few boards, and boom—you're done.
Now, in BJJ, you aren't getting a belt that easily. There's actually a bit more weight given to the rankings there, especially since competitions are organized by both weight class and belt level.
But at the end of the day, we really shouldn't be putting all this massive importance on what color string someone wears around their waist.
Brenda Adams4 Brenda Adams4 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Aug 2006
#4 ·
I mean, I guess the whole point of a belt was actually being able to carry gear... or if you’ve got some hidden tool tucked under your gi, it keeps it from sliding right off your waist; plus, maybe it helped with stuff like climbing or whatever... I suppose people actually used them for practical things once upon a time. But now, every single sport has just turned them into these little labels for ranking and identification...
It’s not necessarily a bad thing, though, because they let you see who actually knows more than you do (well, they *should*), and you’re supposed to show them some respect since they clearly put in more work toward the same goal you're chasing—assuming martial arts even have a goal, like perfecting your body and spirit or something.
crimsonbison10 crimsonbison10 Active Member
51 messages
joined Nov 2008
#5 ·
Even though the way people climb the ranks is pretty much the same across most disciplines—I mean, you see it everywhere from karate to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu—it doesn't mean everything is actually equal. It’s like comparing a ladder to an escalator; they both get you to a higher floor, sure, but the mechanics and the effort required to stay on them are worlds apart. You look at how different martial arts handle their progression, and honestly, it can be a bit of a mess if you don't know what you're looking at. The whole concept of kyu... it’s a bit of a mess, isn't it? I mean, if you really sit down and think about how we structure progression in martial arts, it feels like trying to measure the depth of the Grand Canyon with a standard ruler. You think you're getting somewhere, you move up a level, you feel that little spark of accomplishment, but then you realize the scale itself might be skewed. It's like those corporate ladder climbers in Chicago who think moving from Junior Associate to Senior Associate means they've actually mastered the art of business, when really, they've just been given a slightly larger cubicle and a better coffee machine. It’s all very arbitrary if you look at it through a certain lens. We cling to these incremental steps—these little colored belts and ranks—to give ourselves the illusion of a steady climb. But is it real growth? Or is it just administrative housekeeping? Sometimes I feel like we're just checking boxes on a spreadsheet, much like an accountant at Deloitte grinding through a quarterly audit, rather than actually evolving as human beings. One minute you're focused on a basic kick, the next you're worrying about the technicality of a transition, and before you know it, you're chasing the next stripe just to feel like you haven't stagnated. It’s a cycle. A repetitive, somewhat exhausting cycle. i Day Degree ranks... honestly, they’re such a moving target. It’s all relative, isn't it? You look at the standard playbook and everyone tells you that 10th Degree is the absolute ceiling—the pinnacle of achievement. But then you start looking under the hood at different disciplines, and the whole thing starts to feel a bit fuzzy. Some schools or specific martial arts styles seem to flatten the hierarchy entirely, capping things out at an 8th or even a 9th Degree just because that's how they choose to structure their lineage. It’s like trying to measure rainfall with a ruler; the tools change depending on who's holding them. Then, you have the outliers. The ones that completely shatter the traditional scale. Take Ninjutsu, for instance—if my memory serves me right, you see claims of people holding up to a 15th Degree. It makes the standard system look almost quaint, doesn't it? And let's not even get started on the politics of it all. Too often, I see certain "distinguished" figures being handed out massive promotions—like a 9th Degree—not necessarily because they spent decades sweating on the mat, but because they've become the face of the organization or they've done enough heavy lifting in terms of "brand development" to justify the title. It’s a strange game.
What it actually takes to earn a new belt really depends on the specific discipline you're grinding in. It’s not some one-size-fits-all equation. In certain sports, you're basically stuck in a loop where your progress is tied directly to how you perform in actual competitions—win enough fights or matches, and you move up. But then you have other styles where it’s more about following a structured curriculum or a specific training syllabus. In those cases, there isn't a scoreboard telling you when you're ready; instead, you just keep working until your instructor decides you've put in enough hours and finally calls you in for the test. It's all very subjective, really.
Look, let’s be honest about the state of things today. We’ve reached a point where earning ranks in almost any skill or sport has become incredibly commercialized. It’s gotten out of hand. We are seeing this entire generation of "instant" masters popping up everywhere. And I don't just mean here in the States—this is a widespread problem. I’ve actually had the misfortune of working with people holding 5th Degree ranks who, in my professional opinion, wouldn't even qualify for a 2nd kyu. Honestly, I’ve taken harder hits from random guys in the street than I ever did from these supposed experts. It’s funny how people get hung up on labels. They see someone wearing a certain color belt or holding a specific rank and they think they’ve got the whole person figured out. It's like looking at a blueprint and thinking you've actually lived in the house. You haven't. You just know where the plumbing is. When we talk about those early ranks—the beginners, the ones just starting their journey—it’s easy to dismiss them. People think they're just "students." But there's a weight to it. It's that raw, unpolished stage where everything is new and nothing is settled. It’s like being a rookie in the minor leagues; you have the passion, sure, but you haven't felt the sting of a veteran's precision yet. You're still learning how to even hold the equipment properly. I see it all the time in the gyms. Someone walks in, maybe they've done a bit of wrestling or some basic cardio, and they think they can skip the fundamentals. They want the prestige without the sweat. It reminds me of someone trying to drive a heavy-duty truck through downtown Chicago without ever having sat in a driver's seat. You’re going to stall out, and you’re going to look foolish doing it. The lower ranks aren't just about what you *can* do; they're about what you're willing to learn. If you approach it with an ego, you've already lost. You have to be okay with being bad. Being okay with being clumsy. That’s the part most people miss because they're too busy worrying about how they look to the guy across the mat. Focus on the foundation, or the whole structure is going to come crashing down when things get heavy.You’re supposed to actually enjoy the skill itself, the art of the sport. This whole obsession with being a "champion" and that mindless, frantic chase for those next degree ranks... honestly, it's just a sign of a cluttered mind. It shows a complete and total lack of understanding of what we're actually doing here.
coppermarlin6 coppermarlin6 Member
16 messages
joined Sep 2005
#6 ·
Jonathan Johnson67 said:What’s the actual point of belt rankings in martial arts, and what does it actually take to earn one?

From what I’ve observed so far, every single time someone tries to level up, they have to break something—be it with a hand or a foot. Why is that such a huge deal? It feels inherently unfair; a guy weighing 240 pounds is going to snap a board much easier than someone at 130 pounds, even if that lighter person has significantly better technique.

It also seems like people who are just chasing belts can reach black belt status relatively quickly, whereas those who genuinely love the craft might take much longer—even if their actual skill level is superior.

In my view, the utility of a belt lies in distinguishing a beginner from a master, along with all the intermediate stages in between. At the same time, it serves to set smaller, manageable milestones on the long road toward a major goal, ensuring the student stays motivated throughout the journey.

When you're actually sparring, a belt can serve several practical purposes too. For instance, getting a grip on an opponent's belt provides a much more secure hold than almost any other type of grip.
Larry Harris54 Larry Harris54 Newcomer
1 message
joined Sep 2007
#7 ·
"A belt is just there to hold up your pants." — Lee 🙂

You all hit the nail on the head regarding the practical side of things—really well put 😁. In my view, belts serve primarily to signal a member's status, knowledge, and skill level within a club
.
As for whether the meaning of belt ranks is universal? That’s debatable—especially when you consider how a black belt in Judo compares to one in Karate... it can get a bit confusing
.
dustywolf52 dustywolf52 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Sep 2006
#8 ·
Larry Harris54 said:"The belt is just there to hold up your pants." — Lee 🙂

You essentially took the words right out of my mouth.😁
Megan White4 Megan White4 Active Member
121 messages
joined Dec 2007
#9 ·
The whole colored belt system is actually a relatively modern invention traced back to Jigoro Kano (the founder of USA Judo). In the early days, a black belt was the sole indicator of mastery, while everyone else—regardless of their actual skill level—simply wore white belts.

On a separate note, I find the concept of colored belts to be quite flawed from a psychological standpoint. For instance, when someone wearing a yellow belt goes to drill with a blue or brown belt, they immediately fall into a mental trap. They see the color of the belt and instantly fixate on their partner's perceived rank, rather than focusing on the technique itself, which should be the true measure of one's ability.
coppermarlin6 coppermarlin6 Member
16 messages
joined Sep 2005
#10 ·
Peter Myers29 said:Colored belts are essentially a modern invention tracing back to Jigoro Kano (the founder of USA Judo). Originally, the black belt was the sole indicator of mastery, while all students—regardless of their actual skill level—wore white belts. It wasn't until later that the various colored belt rankings were introduced.

On a different note, I find the whole concept of colored belts to be fundamentally flawed from a psychological standpoint. For instance, when you're drilling and someone wearing a yellow belt steps up to train with someone holding a blue or brown belt, they immediately fall into a mental trap. They see the color of the belt and instantly perceive an opponent's rank, which should really just be a reflection of their technical knowledge rather than a visual label....

Or, it might give you that extra bit of ego-driven motivation to try and outperform a partner who holds a higher rank...
Not everyone’s psyche reacts to those labels in the same way.
Megan White4 Megan White4 Active Member
121 messages
joined Dec 2007
#11 ·
coppermarlin6 said:Or maybe it just gives you that extra push to outshine those training partners with higher ranks...
Not everyone is wired the same way.

Perhaps, but if you ask me, we shouldn't place so much weight on belt colors.

I could easily go out and buy a white and red belt just to trick someone into thinking I hold a 6th degree rank in USA Judo at some local McDojo.

There was a time when they just handed out certificates: stating that a certain person had mastered specific techniques or skills, complete with an instructor's seal and signature.

In some ways, that might have been better. Back then, a person's experience was measured by how filthy and worn out their white belt actually was.
coppermarlin6 coppermarlin6 Member
16 messages
joined Sep 2005
#12 ·
Peter Myers29 said:Perhaps, but if you ask me, we really shouldn't place so much weight on belt colors.

For instance, I could easily go out and buy a white and red belt just to let some random person believe I've actually earned a 6th degree rank in USA Judo at some local McDojo.

There was a time when they used to just hand out certificates—stating that "so-and-so has mastered these specific techniques" and "possesses these particular skills," complete with an instructor's seal and signature.

In many ways, that might have actually been the superior system; back then, a person's true experience was measured by how filthy and frayed their white belt had become from actual work.

There’s certainly some truth to that point. 👍
Jamie Fowler2 Jamie Fowler2 Member
34 messages
joined Jan 2006
#13 ·
I've still got my very first belt—the white one. Stopped wearing it years ago, and now it’s looking a bit green and brown from all that grass grappling... plus it smells pretty funky. All that old sweat and dirt just won't wash out anymore. 😁

Peter Myers29, you're kidding me. You should've mentioned that in Ki-Aikido, a tight belt actually helps compress the Hara, sharpens your focus, and directs your Ki 😁
Megan White4 Megan White4 Active Member
121 messages
joined Dec 2007
#14 ·
Cain said:Peter Myers29, you really let me down there. You should have mentioned that in Ki-Aikido, a properly tightened belt applies pressure to the hara, helping you focus and direct your ki. 😁

🙂 True, but that’s the secret... Besides, you can always tuck various weapons into it... 🤔 ...like a pocketknife, for instance. 😁

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