Bread consumption habits

Sandra Hayes88 said:What’s even wrong with that?
The idea being that sugar extracted from sugarcane becomes toxic to us, whereas whole sugarcane itself isn't harmful?
EXACTLY.

I was saying there aren't even CASES of diabetes among people who just eat raw sugarcane.
But for those eating Refined foods? Yeah, they get it.
And look, there's a massive difference between what you're allowed to eat once you've already been diagnosed with diabetes...
I'm talking about the CAUSE here, while you're stuck obsessing over the CONSEQUENCES.
Refined foods cause diabetes—and then the consequence is that you can't even touch fruit anymore without worry.
Fruit doesn't CAUSE diabetes.

You've got it wrong, Sandra Hayes88

Diabetes (the so-called "adult-onset" Type 2 kind) is actually a result of insulin resistance...
It's a genetic predisposition, sure, but one of the huge factors driving the disease is obesity.

And honestly? You can get fat just by eating perfectly healthy, "unrefined" food if you're eating way more calories than you need...

Sure, processed, refined foods packed with sugar definitely drive weight gain and really do contribute to diabetes.

But at the end of the day, someone with the genetic lean toward diabetes is going to get it regardless of how they put on the weight.

Besides, you see plenty of people who aren't even overweight suffering from Type 2 diabetes. On the flip side, not every single person who struggles with weight ends up with it.

A little research on how long we've actually known about diabetes... 😁

The earliest mentions date all the way back to the ancient Egyptians

And I won't even get started on the Romans, who apparently figured out how to diagnose it after noticing bees swarming around the sweet urine of certain patients

It’s almost certainly because they didn't have access to whole grain bread back then 😁

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Sandra Hayes88 says:
What’s wrong with that?
The idea that sugar extracted from sugarcane becomes harmful, while whole sugarcane itself isn't?
EXACTLY.

I said there are zero CASES of diabetes among people who eat raw sugarcane.
But among those eating Refined foods, there are.
It's a different matter entirely—what you can or can't eat once you already have diabetes.
I’m talking about the CAUSE, whereas you're talking about the CONSEQUENCES.
Refined foods cause diabetes, and the consequence is that you can't even eat fruit anymore.
Fruit doesn't CAUSE diabetes.
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rustymoose54 says:
you're wrong, Sandra

diabetes (so-called "adult-onset," type 2) is a consequence of insulin resistance.
Genetic predisposition is passed down, and one factor influencing the disease is obesity.

You can become obese by eating perfectly healthy and "unrefined" food, just in quantities exceeding your needs.

Refined, processed food high in sugar promotes weight gain and certainly contributes to the onset of diabetes.

However, someone predisposed to diabetes will get it regardless of how they gained weight.

Besides, some people who aren't even overweight suffer from type 2 diabetes. On the other hand, not all overweight people get diabetes.

I still don't see how your statement refutes mine.
What part of my statement is incorrect?
"Refined, processed food high in sugar promotes weight gain and certainly contributes to the onset of diabetes."
That’s exactly what I said.

Someone predisposed to diabetes doesn't necessarily have to develop it if they watch their diet, exercise regularly, etc.
That's what I've been talking about this whole time: PREVENTION.

Anyway, this theory of yours about eating healthy food in excessive amounts... it's highly unlikely you'll eat enough healthy food to exceed your needs when that kind of food actually makes you feel full, unlike refined foods.
We already established that for the caloric value of one pastry (700-1000 calories), you could eat a normal meal of healthy food, maybe even two.
But after one pastry, you'll be hungry again in half an hour.
If you eat a real meal, you won't be hungry again in thirty minutes looking for more lunch.
It seems to me the point of your posts is just to throw around big words and pretend you have knowledge, without offering any actual concrete advice.

🙄

crimsonorca12 said:Maybe try doing a little research on when diabetes was first identified.😁

The earliest mentions of diabetes go all the way back to the ancient Egyptians.

Not to mention the old Romans used to diagnose it just by noticing bees swarming around patients with sweet urine.

I guess that's because whole grain bread didn't exist back then.😁

"Archaeological sites suggest that even the ancient Egyptians were baking bread; findings from pharaohs' tombs, currently held in museums, are believed to date back to roughly 2000 years before Christ. From Egypt, bread consumption spread to Greece and eventually to Rome, where white bread first appeared as a luxury for the wealthy. The Romans spread their methods of bread making throughout Europe. Bread has always been considered an essential staple that sustained generations of laborers, sailors, loggers, travelers, and soldiers."

Sandra Hayes88 said:Besides, that whole theory of yours about overeating healthy food... it's highly unlikely you'd actually eat way more than you need when that kind of stuff actually makes you feel full—unlike all that refined foods junk.

Honestly, it feels like the whole point of your posts is just throwing around big words and acting like an expert without offering any actual, real-world advice.

🙄

Dammit, Zen, it's not even my "theory"—it's just how things are.

As for getting advice—go see a professional, pay the fee, and get your answers there. I’m just calling out the straight-up lies people are dropping in here.

And one of those lies is the claim that "people who live on sugarcane don't get diabetes."

Look, I get it, but orthorexia isn't exactly the healthiest thing in the world either...😉

rustymoose54 said:The thing is, you see plenty of people who aren't even overweight dealing with type 2 diabetes, yet not every person carrying extra weight ends up with it.

And honestly, have you ever actually heard of someone developing diabetes overnight just from stress? Because I have...

So, if you happen to know, why don't you explain how diet and stress are actually linked?

rustymoose54 said:Look, Zeno, this isn't even my theory. It just is.

Regarding the advice—go see a consultant, pay them, and get your answers. I’m just reacting to the blatant misinformation being tossed around here.

And it's flat-out wrong to claim that "people who eat sugarcane don't get diabetes."

By the way, orthorexia nervosa isn't exactly the healthiest thing in the world either.😉

Oh, so who here has "orthorexia nervosa," since you're bringing it up?
Starting to hand out diagnoses now, are we?
I wasn't aware you had a degree in psychology or something.
You aren't special; it's a pretty common phenomenon for educated people to think they're experts on everything.

It’s funny how you took my statement completely out of context. What I actually said was:
"Anyway, that theory of yours about eating healthy food in amounts exceeding what's necessary... it's highly unlikely you'll end up eating healthy food in excess when that kind of food actually makes you feel full, unlike Refined foods.
We already established that for the caloric value of one pastry (700-1000 calories), you could eat a normal meal of healthy food, if not two.
But after one pastry, you'll be hungry again in half an hour.
If you eat a real meal, you won't be hungry again in thirty minutes looking for lunch.
"
So, I didn't say you wouldn't gain weight if you ate massive quantities of whole, healthy foods. I just said it's unlikely you'd feel the need to do that, because you'll be perfectly satisfied with moderate amounts of whole, healthy food and won't be hungry.
Plus, Refined foods, processed foods, and junk foods create addiction, whereas whole, healthy food doesn't.
I still don't quite get your point.

I mean, if you’re out here playing prophet and predicting everyone's diabetes diagnosis, then sure, I can throw orthorexia into the mix too...

Don't go getting ideas—I didn't say anyone here actually has it 😉

And look, I don't know everything—honestly, I won't live long enough to figure it all out anyway 😁 besides, this whole "everyone is an expert on everything" mindset is driving me absolutely insane 🙂

As for gaining weight from so-called "healthy food," I've lived through it personally. Get this—I put on 22 pounds without touching a single grain of processed sugar. I was eating specialized bread, tons of fiber and veggies, kept animal fats to a bare minimum—basically all fats for that matter—nothing fried, heaven forbid, not even dried fruit... 😁

Okay, fine, I'll give you credit and admit it was all about programmed weight gain. But the bottom line remains: I was eating ultra-healthy, and I still managed to pack on the pounds quite successfully 😎

Sandra Hayes88 said:Plus, refined and processed foods create addiction, whereas whole, healthy foods don't.

In that case, how am I an addict for quinoa seeds, arugula salad with extra virgin olive oil, and asparagus frittata with truffles?
🙂

🙂
🙂
Documentation of The Effect of Sugar and White flour on The development of peoples and degenerative Diseases.

We consume more candy than eggs; we consume more sugar than vegetables, fruits, and eggs combined; we drink more soda than milk; and starting around 1971, we began consuming more processed foods than fresh ones. You don't need a degree in nutrition to realize we're in a freefall here; if we don't pivot drastically, we’re essentially guaranteeing our kids and grandkids face even higher rates of degenerative diseases than the current, frankly pathetic, levels.

I suppose the issue is that we haven't actually crunched the numbers on our diet. We tell ourselves a bit of sugar here, a soda there, a minor additive, or some "enriched" flour won't kill us. That isn't realistic. Refined foods, sugar, and additives are baked into nearly everything we touch, and we fail to weigh our actual milk intake against the sheer volume of soda we—and our children—are gulping down.

Our kids just mimic what we eat and how we act, so naturally, they end up with terrible habits. To make matters worse, they’re bombarded by $75,000,000 worth of TV commercials peddling gimmicks and sugar. Honestly, there are over thirty-seven different types of sugar-coated tooth-destroyers sitting on the cereal aisle right now, all pretending to be healthy. When you factor in what we *aren't* providing—whole grains, real meats, veggies, and the kind of wholesome drinks and desserts growing kids actually need, plus essential vitamins—it's no mystery why they get sick. They're inheriting systemic weaknesses passed down through generations of bad nutrition, only to pile on new issues themselves. And yet, we prattle on about raising kids in a good Christian home. It feels like we've only fulfilled two-thirds of our duty. We've ignored the final third—the abundance of God's provisions meant for the very bodies we are supposed to be stewarding.

Civilization reached the Marquesans, and they swapped their natural diet for polished rice, canned goods, and sweets. Degeneration followed, and a population of roughly 100,000 shriveled down to a sickly 2,500. According to Mr. Menard, this happened because of the cash earned from their copra crops and the status they attached to imported European goods. Eventually, copra prices tanked, poverty hit, and they were forced back to their original, simple, nutrient-dense diet. The outcome? A return to health, minimal cavities, and perfectly white teeth. The population actually grew instead of shrinking, and they became a healthy society once more. Meanwhile, on the coasts where people stayed stuck on the Western diet, the decline continued.

nimbleskipper13 said:So how am I an addict if all I eat is chia seeds, arugula salad with homemade olive oil, and asparagus frittata with truffles?
🙂

Really?
Are you actually addicted to that food—like, you have this impulsive need to consume specific amounts every single day?
And you're even having health issues because of it?
🤔

I honestly just love throwing in real-life examples whenever I can! I feel like people tend to grasp things a lot better when you give them a concrete scenario.

I have a question for Sandra Hayes88. And naturally, I'll use a life example to frame it.
My daughter is 18 and a half now. She has a huge circle of friends, but one girl really stands out—mostly because of her size. This girl used to have a totally normal build, you know, that perfect healthy teenage physique. But once she hit puberty at 12, she switched to a strictly "healthy" diet. We're talking lots of white meat, nothing but whole grains, tons of fresh fruits and veggies, fish... absolutely no chocolate, no pizza, no pastries. The girl is incredibly healthy, stays active just like any other teen, and doesn't have any hormonal issues, so we know that isn't the cause.
The big question is: how did she manage to gain so much weight eating all that "healthy" food? Because she’s quite heavy now, weighing about 210 lbs at 5'5".
My take on this would be that she's simply eating more calories than she burns.
Bottom line: if you consume more energy than your body needs, you gain weight. It doesn't matter if those calories come from "white" carbs or "brown" ones.

Actually, it turns out this isn't even really a question for Sandra Hayes88; it's more of a confirmation of what rustymoose54 was saying, just phrased in a much more down-to-earth way.

Personally, I am totally hooked on radishes, spinach, homegrown tomatoes, and delicious little fish.
Oh, and pumpkin seeds too! I have such nostalgic memories of my grandfather drying them out for us. I also love hazelnuts, though the squirrels in our yard seem to steal them every single year!
As for bread, I'm not a fan—not the white stuff or the heavy whole-grain kind.

I guess nimbleskipper13 lives for truffle and asparagus frittatas... those are actually two of the few things I can't stand. I just don't like them, and honestly, that heavy truffle smell makes me nauseous. I'm no nutrition expert, but I haven't really eaten bread in ages. Maybe if I'm having a sandwich or toast, but with dinner? If I eat any at all, it’s barely half a slice. It doesn't sit right with me; I'd much rather fill up on actual food than just wolf down three slices of bread. But hey, everyone's body is different, I suppose.

crimsonorca12 said:Maybe try doing a little research on how long we've actually known about diabetes.😁

The first mentions of diabetes date all the way back to the ancient Egyptians.

Not to mention the ancient Romans used to diagnose it after noticing bees swarming around the sweet urine of certain patients.

That’s almost certainly because whole grain bread wasn't exactly a staple back then.😁

👍 👍
It's the same story with several other ailments. They've been around forever. It just took us this long to finally catch up, get smart, and connect the dots to our lack of whole grain bread.
😂Fact.

jadesailor14 said:Man, I just love using real-life examples. I think people used to grasp what was being said much sooner back in the day.

I have a question for Sandra Hayes88. Naturally, it comes with a life example.
My daughter is 18. She has a huge group of friends. One stands out from the rest, specifically because of her size. The girl used to be, how should I put this, a normal build—you know, exactly how a young person should be, neither thin nor overweight. Then puberty hit at 12 and she started eating "healthy." Just a little white meat, whole grains, properly prepared fruits and veggies, fish... no chocolate, no pizza, no pastries... The girl is healthy, stays active like any other teen, doesn't have hormonal issues, so it isn't that.
The question is: how did she manage to gain weight eating all that healthy stuff? Because she’s actually quite heavy, maybe 210 lbs at 5'5".
My answer would be, she's just eating more than she burns.
Basically, if you eat more than your body needs, you get heavier. Doesn't matter if those are "white" or "brown" foods.

Actually, it turns out this isn't really a question for Sandra Hayes88, but rather a confirmation of what rustymoose54 wrote. It's just been phrased in a very blunt, rural way.

jadesailor14, did I ever say that wasn't true?
My point is, while how much you eat matters, WHAT you eat matters too, because I don't think being thin is enough; you also need to be healthy.

By eating healthy food, I lost 45 pounds and fixed my health issues... so there's a life example, and it's my own, so I guess I know what I'm talking about firsthand.

Anyway, if you want a life example, here's the one that made me start thinking about all this.
My former boss, who I nannied for and lived with, would drink coffee every morning and wouldn't eat anything until 5 or 6 PM just to stay thin.
Then she'd have a few crackers and some cheese until dinner, when she'd finally have a regular meal with meat or fish, rice or potatoes, and a salad.
She didn't eat fruit regularly; she'd buy two oranges and three apples for a four-person household plus myself living there.
Their pantry was full of canned and processed foods; the kids wouldn't touch fruit for days. They just didn't want it.
At 42, she had osteoporosis—something you usually see in women in their 70s—and then she got breast cancer and went through chemo, surgery, and radiation, though the cancer eventually cleared up.

The craziest part is that it never once occurred to her, nor did any doctor tell her, to start eating better to strengthen her body for the fight against the disease—a disease that probably wouldn't have even shown up if she had eaten better in the first place.

Even now, she eats the same way: just coffee, a small snack, and dinner. 😱 😱

She hasn't changed her diet, but I did.
Living with them and eating their food, I was a wreck. I coughed non-stop for two months straight, but I was coughing so hard I ended up gaining 45 pounds.
I was constantly tired, weak, and irritable.

So, yeah. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I see people constantly obsessing over eating "healthy"—you know, all that whole grain stuff—and then wondering why they can't lose weight. It’s simple math: they’re just consuming way more calories than they actually burn.. 😢

The reality is that modern American food is incredibly nutrient-depleted, which forces us to shovel in thousands upon thousands of calories just to hit our basic nutritional requirements!
It’s reached a point where you see people who are simultaneously overweight and malnourished.

Even the CDC guidelines still suggest these daily amounts for essential nutrients:

5 to 9 servings of fruit and vegetables per day
6 to 10 servings of whole grains daily
3 to 5 servings of calcium-rich foods, like milk and dairy products, or 5 to 7 servings for growing kids

*A single serving is defined as at least 200 to 300 calories

That adds up to 5,000 calories every single day.

We're talking about 5,000 calories just to get the bare minimum of what our bodies need to stay healthy!
But most of us only need about 2,000 to 2,500 calories to function normally. It’s an impossible standard. It’s pure madness.. 😁

I suppose that’s why "fast food for smart people" has become such a thing...

http://clubs.iskrica.com/clubs/Prehr...lika_24945.jpg

Phew, thank God!
You guys finally figured out that just because food is labeled "healthy," it doesn't mean it actually is.

5 to 9 SERVINGS* of fruits and vegetables daily
6 to 10 SERVINGS of whole grains daily
3 to 5 SERVINGS rich in calcium (milk and dairy products)—though 5 to 7 SERVINGS for growing kids

*A "serving" is defined as a minimum of 200 to 300 calories

🙄
Below is my little guide to defining a "serving" for those of us trying to stay sensible.

***For anyone who isn't a fan of precise measurements: an ounce is about 28.5 grams; a "cup" is roughly 8 fluid ounces...

Most dietary advice uses the term “servings”—you’ll hear things like "eat three to five servings of fruits and veggies" or "two to three servings of meat," and so on. But honestly, does anyone actually know what a “serving” really looks like?

If you can wrap your head around serving sizes, it becomes much easier to manage your portions—that is, the actual amount of food you put on your plate at any given meal. To make things a bit more intuitive, here are some handy visual cues you can use to gauge your portions:

· Three ounces of cooked meat, fish, or poultry—roughly the size of a standard deck of playing cards
· Two tablespoons of peanut butter—about the size of a golf ball
· A medium piece of fruit—think of a baseball
· A medium bagel—about the size of a hockey puck
· One ounce of cheese—comparable to the size of four dice
· A small baked potato—just about the size of a computer mouse
· For raw vegetables, yogurt, or fruit, a serving is one cup—which should fit right in the palm of an average woman's hand.

Sandra Hayes88 said:Well, thank God for that.
So you finally figured out that "healthy" food isn't actually healthy.

What's that supposed to mean?
To me, it's pretty obvious that living a 100% clean lifestyle is basically impossible if you live in a city. Maybe it would work if you were out in the middle of the Amazon, surrounded by untouched wilderness, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter what you eat or that you can just grab whatever junk is lying around.

Could you maybe elaborate on your actual stance?